Dealing with/managing information overload with L4

As an active-working pastor, I find that both L3 and L4 does not save time. The reason is, with all the information contained in so many resources, I want to just keep studying and keep studying. In the end, I always feel that the best I have done is "scratched-the-surface" on studying any given passage or topic. Thus, I would like to start this thread with the following goals in mind:

1. That folks with good exegetical skills will provide suggestions for strategies to get the most out of L4 with the somewhat limited time busy pastors have in preparing both lessons and sermons.

2. Recommended lay-outs for getting the most out of L4 in light of the time constraints on busy pastors.

3. Technical advise on tools and settings that will help make study time as productive and efficient as possible.

4. The creation of more step-by-step videos by Logos staff and others (like Mark Barnes) that serve as great tutorials.

5. Advise on building "collections" and how to effectively use them.

The main thing is for those "in-the-know" provide this as a forum for those of us who do not have the time we would like to explore the vast potential of L4. I.E., to give us the wisdom and fruits of YOUR labors. I pray God will use this forum post to be a blessing to multitudes of us who must work with limited time-constraints concerning our study time. Looking forward to receiving lots of useful advise and tips that will help us all deal with and manage the information-overload that L4 provides. Blessings to all, Steve Spencer

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TCBlack

Steven you're not alone. Information overload is a very real phenomena with Logos. My solution isn't really elegant but it is what it is: I limit myself in my workflow.

Typically (though sadly not always) I have the same basic pattern for working out a passage.

I start with a quick parsing of the Greek Text, and follow that up with a study of the Syntax. By the time I've run through this I've isolated the words or thoughts that I want to pursue. I Finalize my own translation of the passage in question, and in doing so I usually find that I have a rather large collection of haphazard notes.

I then will turn to about three of the Commentaries of a technical nature: ICC, WBC, NICNT (in no particular order at this time). If I can muster it up I'll turn to at least one commentary which is more devotional in nature.

My pattern for OT studies is not quite as rigorous as I am only self-teaching Hebrew at the moment, Yearning to return to Seminary but lacking the green.

I find that seasoning this with prayer provides me with much more material than I can use.

Of course this is a best case scenario, it's not always so clean cut but it is the pattern I attempt to set for myself.

I reserve the rest of the Library for thorny issues. When they arise I'll try to consult the Systematic Theologies first, Followed with any other targeted reference works.

Steven L. Spencer

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/59474#Comment_59474

Thanks, Thomas. I also spend time in the Greek, then turn to the more technical-exegetical commentaries--but probably spend too much time reading almost EVERY commentary in my library (which is probably a symptom of OCD). I think I will draw from your suggestion and limit time spent in commentaries--and spend more time in prayerful meditation. Blessings to you--Steve

Friedrich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/59474#Comment_59474

Steven if you have a preferred method of study (do you?), like sequential steps (Initial Reading, Grammar/Translation, word study, commentary perusal, etc, I would:

build a layout--and save it with a title that explains what phase of study it is--around each component. I think Mark barnes's videos get at that kind of approach. Perhaps adapt what he does on your machine
Determine what resources within each phase of study are most helpful. You don't need to consult 9 Bible Dictionaries, commentaries, etc. On rare occasions you may (difficult passage, controversial view points, things aren't explained well, etc). Do you have "favorites?" Set those are your main resources in the pane within that layout. Restrict your findings to them.
set time or day limits on parts of your study. I have a hard time doing this, but the more I adhere to it, the better. I am one who wants to study all week and finally realize I have to write the sermon as I walk up to preach (exaggeration, but not by much!). And the more heavy lifting I can do on day one or two allows those thoughts to simmer a few days before I put it all together toward the end of the week.
Having collections is helpful too: background study, topical, etc. Those collections can be searched if there is a need to get information fast that is not covered, or not covered in a way I need by my "main resources."

I am working on making layouts myself right now. Mark Barnes approach to using favorites is a watershed moment for me, as well as seeing how clippings can be used, too.

Friedrich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/59501#Comment_59501

I think I will draw from your suggestion and limit time spent in commentaries--and spend more time in prayerful meditation.

I find this the most helpful, lol, even as I am tempted to read all the commentaries, too. Often they just confuse the issue--unless I am focused on a particular exegetical or translation issue and want to see pros and cons. I gain the most by doing my "initial reading and bible context study" using multiple translations, concordance type searches, and prayer. For instance while adapting Lucado's 3:16 series, which breaks the verse into 12 sermons built around key words, I did a LOT of work seeing how that word was used in John (world, believe, etc). Lucado is a communication genius, but I preferred to do more within John itself and gained much insight. As well as--I hope--allowed people to see how reading and mulling over a book will give you much insight, vs. jumping around to other books.

Constantly getting input from others often clouds things up, and most certainly takes away time from letting things roll around in your head and heart. (and I am not anti book at all--it is one way God shapes me and communicates with me, ie, he at times seems to say: THIS is what I want you to know/pay attention too." but that does not always happen that way and sometimes I wonder if He is thinking: "shut down Logos and pray or go play with your kid," or something! [A]

MJ. Smith

I want to just keep studying and keep studying. In the end, I always feel that the best I have done is "scratched-the-surface" on studying any given passage or topic.

And this is a problem how? I would, however, identify a similar concern - with Logos it is very easy to spend time reading about the text rather than with the text.

What I have done is set up very small collections to be searched - my top 2 or 3 max in (a) language related e.g. figures of speech, allusions (b) social customs (c) history and (d) commentaries. The default passage guide has these as collections, my content, parallels, cross-references and literary typing. In short, I start with a tightly controlled set of resources. I then use standard techniques - definitions, paraphrase, diagram, summary ... - to identify areas in which I need more information to understand and add resources to the passage guide / open the exegetical guide. When I'm about 75% done with my alloted time, I let Logos do its thing and show me all related resources ... I scan them for things that catch my attention that weren't in my original focus ... decide I'm actually only 50% done and follow the new threads of thought.

Dave Hooton

3. Technical advise on tools and settings that will help make study time as productive and efficient as possible.
5. Advise on building "collections" and how to effectively use them.

Prioritizing resources will improve the information you get from
Guides (eg suggested commentaries) and right clicking a word in a bible or
a reference.

Custom guides will give you the information that you want to see.

Help on building collections, searching, prioritizing and custom guides can be found in the wiki FAQ at http://wiki.logos.com/FAQ

This rather brief, but feel free to come back with questions.

Michael Lyman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/59732#Comment_59732

John 16:12-15 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.

This is from the Guy who said:

Matthew 16:18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

[;)]

Timothy Lovegrove

Steven,

I"m not really a power L4 user, but I am a very busy pastor and L4 is my primary study tool each week for expositional preaching. I have a couple of basic thougts on your questions:

Ruthlessly customize a guide that will be your primary platform for interacting with the text. By 'ruthlessly,' I mean that you have to be honest about which of the possible guide sections are not really that essential to your sermon prep (I realize that this will change depending on the kind of sermons you are preparing / type of Scripture you are studying / etc.). It was sheer delight for me to customize my own guide(s) in L4, and it saves so much time.
Create very simple customized guides for quick tasks. For example, create a guide that only has the commentary section. This way you can get the commentaries on a passage without waiting for all of the other sections of a guide to load.
Though I love exegeting the Scriptures and examing words and grammar very closely, for busy pastors I think that it is just as important to let Scripture interpret Scripture (keep your eye on the forest, not just the trees). Along this line, I love how L4 allows me to browse cross references so quickly. My preferred resource is the New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge, and I keep the Power Lookup frame open on the right side of my layout. NTSK follows me to whatever passage I am studying, and then I simply highlight the section of NTSK that is relevant. Power Lookup then allows me to immediately browse all of those cross references. Fantastic.

So FWIW, my basic layout has:

Frame 1: my custom guide; Bible Word Study Guide tabbed behind it
Frame 2: preferred Bible; commentaries tabbed behind it
Frame 3: NTSK; preferred Lexicons tabbed behind it
Frame 4: Power Lookup; sometimes I'll have Cited By or Bible Explorer behind this.

Steven L. Spencer

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/59505#Comment_59505

Thanks to ALL of you who have responded thus far. I have already gained some suggestions that I have implemented. I hope others will join in and give their thoughts and tips as well.

Blessings to all, Steve

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/61086#Comment_61086

One thing no-one has really mentioned, is the building of collections. By only searching in highly relevant but limited collections, you can much reduce the information that's returned. For example, I don't just have a collection called Bible Dictionaries, I have a collection called Favourite Bible Dictionaries. Why plough through endless entries of a third-rate dictionary when I know that Anchor or NDB is going to be right on the money? When I have a query I'll search my favourites first. I'll only widen the search if I can't find the answer or I can't find consensus. In 4.0a you can restrict Passage Guides and the Cited By tool by collections, which is a big plus.

Timothy Lovegrove

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/61596#Comment_61596

a third-rate dictionary

Mark, I think you are exactly right. Steven is talking about "overload," and one of the key ways to deal with overload is to recognize that just because it came in Logos doesn't mean it's a good resource!! One person's treasure may be another's trash, but we all will have plenty of 'trash' in our libraries - stuff that isn't worth our time. Using collections to weed out these "third-rate" resources is critical.

Steven L. Spencer

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/61611#Comment_61611

Thanks...and keep those suggestions coming. I'm trying to implement them. There's a real learning curve for L4...but I patiently keep on keeping on. I speak for so many when I say how much we appreciate the suggestions and videos you guys provide. Feel free, time permitting, to list what you believe are the best resources for various collections. Blessings, Steve

Brad Fry

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/61644#Comment_61644

Logos is a great tool. But the temptation to consult too many resources has to be resisted for me. I liked this article in the NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/25/technology/25brain.html?_r=1&ref=general&src=me&pagewanted=print

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/165511#Comment_165511

One thing I do is NOT start with Logos. I start with my paper Bible in English and I use either the NAS or the ESV which I trust as having good fairly literal translations of the underlying Greek and Hebrew. After spending some time studying and outlining whatever it is I am working on, I turn to Logos to answer my questions. This makes me less dependent on Logos and I think makes the best use of my time. At this point I may study the Greek or Hebrew, but I never do a full translation anymore. I'll study word meanings, use dictionaries and commentaries, conduct searches, and so on to answer the questions I have. I never use the Passage Guide and rarely use the other guides. This keeps me from letting the guides direct my study.

Defining collections helps with searches, so I have many collections. Since I am often working through Bible books either for a sermon series or for teaching, I usually set up a layout and take the time to open just the commentaries I want to use for that study. I try to open only the best of what I have. I save that layout so I can reopen it next time I need to work in that book. This, of course, saves me study time and keeps me from browsing and wasting time.

I find that my time away from Logos is as important as my time in Logos, so I try to have my sit and read spot physically separated from my computer so I am not tempted to browse it when I really need to read or think.

Chris D. Mallea

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/165540#Comment_165540

"paralysis of analysis" as I once heard John MacArthur state in a sermon podcast.

chris

spitzerpl

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/165540#Comment_165540

One thing I do is NOT start with Logos. I start with my paper Bible in English

I thought there was a forum rule against such inflammatory propaganda?

Seriously, I agree whole heartedly with those who advocate limiting the amount of information in front of you. Create a sermon Passage Guide that includes only the sections you will use, in the order you will use them. for the commentary section restrict it to the commentaries you most treasure. You might want to have links take you to a floating window with as little open as possible if you are easily distracted. Maybe have a favorites folder called "follow up" that you can drag a link into. The purpose of this folder would be that if you start to rabbit trail into a resource that isn't vital but peaked your curiosity you can add the link to that folder so that after you've created your sermon you can go back to them.

Greg Corbin

As a pastor who preaches every week also, I agree with Mark that it is helpful to begin with a paper copy. I do not have all of my key commentary sets in Logos, so I still use some paper resources outside Logos each week as well. However, easily 75% of my sermon prep time is done in Logos. I also agree that you must limit the information at your fingertips. Like Mark, I never use the passage guide, etc. Instead, my primary study layout has only my Bible in the version I preach from, along with Notes/Clippings/etc. open on the left had side. On the right hand side, I have about six of what I find to be the most helpful commentaries open, and on the bottom right, I have an Bible that I send hyperlinks to. That is all that I typically keep open.

As I do Word studies and look up other things, I put the pertinent information in either a note or a clipping and close the resource out. This keeps me from cluttering up my workspace too much. Furthermore, if you can afford it and get away from the busy routine for a couple of days, I would highly recommend you attend Camp Logos. We just hosted one at our church back in July and I found it very helpful. It will help you to study more efficiently. Perhaps the biggest advantage will be that it will allow you to get away and really concentrate on using Logos without the normal interruptions. Don't know if this helps, but it's my "two cents worth."

Floyd Johnson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/165799#Comment_165799

Greg:

I do something similar - except, rather than trying to use LOGOS Notes, I use either David Michael's TheJournal or Microsoft's OneNote. I copy and paste relevant material into separate entries in whichever of these tools I am using. I have a tab created for each sermon series, an entry for each sermon that begins with the passage in two or more versions, and sub-entries for each resource I have copied. I like OneNote because I can go into each entry and mark them up with highlights, penciled (or typed) personal notes, etc. I can then begin to find the outline that comes from the passage. Only then, do I begin to actually build the sermon - either with my own outline or borrowing one from an established preacher. From the outline I build my own sermon - I would find it impossible to use someone else's sermon as my own. I borrow outlines, but never the sermon.

My layout is very similar to what you use - I also include the highlight pane and the "Copy Bible Verses" pain open on the left side for immediate access. I might use LOGOS Notes, if I was not using a Tablet PC to make handwritten notes. Though it would be nice for LOGOS to support handwritten notes on a Tablet, I do not really expect them to do so.

Hope this is helpful to some.