Logos Pricing

Why is Logos book pricing so high?

Case in point:

Donald Grey Barnhouse's commentary on Romans (4 volume set). The Logos price is $94.95 (Suggested retail is $125.00).

You can buy the same set in book form from CBD for $79.99! Why would the digital version be that much higher than the real books?

I think that if Logos would lower their book prices, they would sell far more books and get much more revenue. They would probably attract a lot more customers to the Logos 4 platform.

Tony

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George Somsel

Why is Logos book pricing so high?

Case in point:

Donald Grey Barnhouse's commentary on Romans (4 volume set). The Logos price is $94.95 (Suggested retail is $125.00).

You can buy the same set in book form from CBD for $79.99! Why would the digital version be that much higher than the real books?

I think that if Logos would lower their book prices, they would sell far more books and get much more revenue. They would probably attract a lot more customers to the Logos 4 platform.

Tony

I'll agree that Logos books are not cheap. It is a matter of the work which goes into making them a fully functioning part of the Logos library system involving links to many other works. If they were simply to port the text to form a resource, it probably would not be at all expensive, but would you be satisfied with such a result? It would be simply a text to be read which would not have those convenient links to all of those other resources. Can you imagine reading a text and finding that if you wish to know precisely what the author was referencing in Calvin or Luther you would need to find the appropriate resource in your library, open it and find the appropriate location all on your own? We would all appreciate lower prices since it is our nature to want the most for the least cost, but account must be taken of what you are getting for the higher price. Personally, I wouldn't buy Barnes since he is dated and he never rose to the height of a truly scholarly author and is not one of the classic works such as Luther, Calvin or Aquinas that one wants even though they are now quite dated simply for the history of the discussion. That is a decision which each must make for himself. I want scholarly works. Some want works which will assist them in sermon preparation, and others want works geared more toward counselling. What you find attractive will be peculiar to yourself.

Tony Thomas

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168591#Comment_168591

While I agree that it does take a lot of $$$ to create an electronic version, after the work is done, the investment has been made. If the price is too high, not many people will buy it and it will take a long time to recoup that investment and make a profit. If the price is much lower, then it will sell faster and become profitable in a shorter period of time. In fact, it may become far more profitable than if the price is much higher. It is all about supply and demand in the end.

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168595#Comment_168595

While I agree that it does take a lot of $$ to create an electronic version, after the work is done, the investment has been made. If the price is too high, not many people will buy it and it will take a long time to recoup that investment and make a profit. If the price is much lower, then it will sell faster and become profitable in a shorter period of time. In fact, it may become far more profitable than if the price is much higher. It is all about supply and demand in the end.

To a certain extent that is correct, but there are other factors to be considered as well. I remember encouraging Bob to proceed with the LSJ project years ago since this is a classic work which is much used by anyone working in the field of Greek and would thus have a continuing demand. This is not true of all resources. Once the field of those who would use a particular resource is largely exhausted there is little continuing demand for the work. The question of whether there would be long-term demand for a work must be considered as well. If Logos were to publish some popular novel, would demand continue once the work continued to be the buzz? I wonder how many copies of Dan Brown's The Da Vinci Code continue to be sold now that the scandal has died down?

Bohuslav Wojnar

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168600#Comment_168600

I wonder how many copies of Dan Brown's The Da Vinci Code continue to be sold now that the scandal has died down?

That would be really interesting to know.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168606#Comment_168606

I wonder how many copies of Dan Brown's The Da Vinci Code continue to be sold now that the scandal has died down?

Not many new ones, I'm guessing. The market is glutted. You can find it used for $0.99, hardcover, 500 such copies on Alibris.com alone.

Tony Thomas

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168600#Comment_168600

Well, I don't think that you can compare Barnhouse's Romans commentaries to "The Di Vinci Code". Pulp paperbacks are a throwaway commodity with a limited shelf life. It has been an Eerdemans staple since 1952. And judging by the reviews on CBD and the 4.5 star rating, it seems to still be in demand almost 60 years later. I think that such works should cost no more than the print versions. And I would love to see the group buy concept applied. The more people that would commit to buying such a work, the lower the price would go!

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168610#Comment_168610

I think that such works should cost no more than the print

Perhaps you could find a PDF copy of this. That would be about the equivalent of a non-linked Logos version.

Tony Thomas

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168611#Comment_168611

I already own the print version and there is no PDF version that I know of. My reason for rebuying would be to have it in Logos format.

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168613#Comment_168613

I already own the print version and there is no PDF version that I know of. My reason for rebuying would be to have it in Logos format.

I would therefore assume that you want the Logos linking capabilites. For that you need to pay. Logos employees may be good people, but they don't work without compensation (as I'm sure none -- or very few -- of us do either).

Edwin Bowden

Why is Logos book pricing so high?

I think that if Logos would lower their book prices, they would sell far more books and get much more revenue. They would probably attract a lot more customers to the Logos 4 platform.

1. Because of the cost to produce the quaility reference material in Logos format. Remember that the engine is "free." All of that development work is paid for by the sale of the products.

2. Because enough of us have found the material to be worth every penny that it costs.

3. Because Logos has a proven track record of developing a library of over 10,000 titles to become the Bible software leader.

4. Because Logos knows far more than we do about what works and doesn't work as well as the costs and marketing.

The product is there to buy or not buy at the price that Logos has determined works for them as a company.

I don't buy everything that Logos offers. I buy what is an effective price for me for the product that I want.

My Logos titles are far more valuable to me than my printed copies of the same works.

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168634#Comment_168634

My Logos titles are far more valuable to me than my printed copies of the same works.

Agreed. I have given away almost every print volume I own and replaced them with Logos and Accordance resources. I assume that means I find Logos' pricing to represent a fair value for my money.

Thank you, Edwin for a superb summary.

Tony Thomas

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168634#Comment_168634

Those are certainly valid arguments.

However, Logos does offer deep discounts via its tier system and that seems to be the primary way that people buy their Logos books. If people are willing to pay more for Logos books than their print equivalents, that is good for their business model. However, I am not one of those people.

From the reading and research I have done, it seems that many people use more than one Bible Study app because they cannot afford the Logos versions. I am certainly in that camp since I also use various Sword-standard apps. It would seem to me that if the prices were lowered, people would buy more apps. Since the investment in creating those apps has already been made and Logos could probably make more $$$ if the prices were competitive with print versions, it seems like it would be a winning strategy.

I understand that a lot of the print publishers may not want that to happen and may mandate that the Logos versions be sold for more than the paper verions so as not to destroy their business model but that is another issue entirely. As the market grows for digitized books and various competing products and formats emerge, I think it is just a matter of time before the high prices disappear altogether.

Jerry M

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168636#Comment_168636

I have BDAG in paper but only used it if I was on a real intent search, which for me could be span quite a bit of time between uses. Now I use it almost daily. I feel, I dig deeper into the Word of God since I purchased Logos and from one point of view how can you put a price on that? If BDAG in Logos cost twice the paper copy, wouldn't it be worth it, if I am actually using it. However the price on some books does seem high considering they are digital, but all things should be considered.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168639#Comment_168639

From the reading and research I have done, it seems that many people use more than one Bible Study app because they cannot afford the Logos versions. I am certainly in that camp since I also use various Sword-standard apps. It would seem to me that if the prices were lowered, people would buy more apps. Since the investment in creating those apps has already been made and Logos could probably make more $$ if the prices were competitive with print versions, it seems like it would be a winning strategy.

They've done the research too, and apparently they feel that their current strategy is a winning one. They are not trying to grab the market away from low-priced alternatives. They position themselves as the BMW of Bible Software, reaching for a certain market (people who have high-end machines and broadband access, for example), and for that you get quality but you also need to expect to pay a premium. Yes, to a certain extend the investment in creating the app has already been made. But they are constantly investing more in enhancing it and in adding new resources to their catalogue and enhancing the existing resources (they've been going through their entire back catalogue of reference works, for example, and retagging them for the new Logos Controlled Vocabulary [LCV] database). All of this takes money. It isn't like they made a development investment up front and now can sit back and watch the money roll in. Even so, they have had a bumper year in terms of profitability in 2009, and they continue to pour income back into growing the company, developing new products like their video series, and remunerating shareholders. I'd say their strategy is working pretty well all-in-all.

I understand that a lot of the print publishers may not want that to happen and may mandate that the Logos versions be sold for more than the paper verions so as not to destroy their business model but that is another issue entirely. As the market grows for digitized books and various competing products and formats emerge, I think it is just a matter of time before the high prices disappear altogether.

Precisely. Logos has contracts with publishers that limit their freedom to charge whatever they want. Logos will pay attention to how things shift as digital books become the predominant market. Digital books have now overtaken hardcover book sales, but not paperbacks yet by a long shot. However that will probably happen within the next few years. I'm sure we will see their pricing strategy evolve over time.

Tony Thomas

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168660#Comment_168660

Well, I guess if their strategy is working, there is certainly no reason to change it. I agree that Logos has created a wonderful product and if they are continuing to re-invest in technology, I am sure that will bode well for them. Of course, if you are making money hand over fist, of course you will become a target at some point as competitors will want in. And I am sure that publishers will try to create their own solutions a la the failed Pradis experiment. How that will impact prices in the future? Only time will tell...

Dan Sheppard

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168615#Comment_168615

George-

I was pondering your avatar. For a long time......

All I can say is, nice buns.

Tony Thomas

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168640#Comment_168640

I can certainly see paying a lot for resources as valuable as BDAG and HALOT because they get so much use.

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168706#Comment_168706

George-

I was pondering your avatar. For a long time......

All I can say is, nice buns.

<LOL> I can't wait to see what happens to this comment when George updates his avatar next. </LOL>

I just did a quick look at this on Logos Speaks (wiki) and hit the following string of Bob's answers to similar points here. (Edwin, you've summarized them quite nicely!)

Logos’ pricing 1 (Bob Pritchett, CEO)
Logos’ pricing 2 (Bob Pritchett, CEO)
Logos’ pricing 3 (Bob Pritchett, CEO)
Logos’ pricing 4 (Bob Pritchett, CEO)
Logos’ pricing 5 (Bob Pritchett, CEO)

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168817#Comment_168817

Blasted forum Striping bug!

Logos’ pricing 1 < http://community.logos.com/forums/p/11152/87648.aspx#87648 >
Logos’ pricing 2 < http://community.logos.com/forums/p/11152/88822.aspx#88822 >
Logos’ pricing 3 < http://community.logos.com/forums/p/11152/89187.aspx#89187 >
Logos’ pricing 4 < http://community.logos.com/forums/p/11152/88865.aspx#88865 >
Logos’ pricing 5 < http://community.logos.com/forums/p/6745/55131.aspx#55131 >

Tony Thomas

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168821#Comment_168821

Thanks for posting these. It makes a lot more sense to me now with Bob's detailed explanations.

Shawn Drewett

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168827#Comment_168827

You know, Dell seems to be doing great selling their stuff at Wal Mart now. Any observations on why Logos continues to sell their product exclusively?

Robert M. Warren

I think we see pricing issues more clearly if we understand that the real issue is: How valuable is the product to you?

I had an acquaintance who had some knowledge of the paper industry and would not purchase paper towels because he "knew what the gross margin" was for those products. He didn't make his judgment based on the utility he would derive from the product.

I also think Metcalfe's Law is analogous here. It indicates that the value of a network (and its individual devices) increases with more devices by far more than can be accounted for by the utility of each individual device alone. (Computer Science folks: this is my rough paraphrase / understanding.)

I think that with Logos both your library and each individual title explode with value as you add more resources (or purchase a more complete base package).

Kevin Becker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168830#Comment_168830

You know, Dell seems to be doing great selling their stuff at Wal Mart now. Any observations on why Logos continues to sell their product exclusively?

Bob addressed this briefly when Logos took their products out of resellers. http://community.logos.com/forums/p/3988/31337.aspx#31337

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168718#Comment_168718

I can certainly see paying a lot for resources as valuable as BDAG and HALOT because they get so much use.

Abraham & Sarah have a Labor Day cookout and invite 200 people.
190 people are fine with the fatted calf bar-b-que. (BDAG/HALOT)
9 people want bar-b-que mutton. (Near Eastern Studies Collection)
1 is vegetarian and wants fried eggplant. (Barnes Notes)

The calf and sheep pay the ultimate price to satisfy the need. (Logos tagging, scanning, proofreading)
The eggplant contributes a portion of it's fruit to the chef's hands.

Is it any wonder the resources in less demand would cost so much? But to the vegetarian it is worth the extra effort the chef is required to give.

All right, I know it is convoluted thinking. I'm distracted by our church's cookout this afternoon.

Shawn Drewett

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168884#Comment_168884

Yea I read that. I was wondering about the opinions of forum users.

Tony Thomas

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168892#Comment_168892

Interestingly, I bought my first Logos/Libronix product from Sam's Club many years ago. It was the MacArthur Lifeworks Library and the price was around $25 back then. Since that time, I have noticed that Wal Mart/Sam's Club has greatly reduced the quality and quantity of its Christian offerings. Perhaps that indicates an erosion of interest/sales in those types of products.

I think a more interesting trend to watch in Christian publishing is the emergence of ePub format books. You can pop over to CBD and find a lot of offerings for $10-20 (including some theological works) from companies like Zondervan, Baker and Nelson. Of course, these do not benefit from the markup and searchability of Logos format books. However, many of these works don't require the search ability of reference and scholarly works.

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168908#Comment_168908

I bought my first Logos/Libronix product from Sam's Club many years ago.

That is where I bought Libronix products too. I met Sam Walton when I joined his first Sam's Club (Midwest City, OK.) He sold Bibles, not beer and was committed to building up families. A lot changed after he died.

Wilson Hines

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168615#Comment_168615

I already own the print version and there is no PDF version that I know of. My reason for rebuying would be to have it in Logos format.

I would therefore assume that you want the Logos linking capabilites. For that you need to pay. Logos employees may be good people, but they don't work without compensation (as I'm sure none -- or very few -- of us do either).

Now, I am not trying to troll or cause trouble. George, you know, just as well as most people here knows, Logos exports most of that work over seas. Yes, there is extensive auditing and editing here stateside, but quite frankly, the most laborious of this effort is done over seas just like your blue jeans and everything else you buy. If this isn't the senario now, it was in the past. I seriously doubt they have varied from this practice, as it is a huge cost saver.

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/169168#Comment_169168

[quote
user="Wilson Hines"]Logos exports most of that work over seas. Yes, there is
extensive auditing and editing here stateside, but quite frankly, the
most laborious of this effort is done over seas just like your blue jeans and
everything else you buy. If this isn't the senario now, it was in the past. I
seriously doubt they have varied from this practice, as it is a huge cost
saver.

Although
Logos is predominantly an American company by common definition, they
have a multi-national presence. The exchange of labor and brain-trust
is bidirectional. I am not privy
to all the financial details but it would not surprise me to find your
scenario
no longer applies. I do not know where the high dollar equipment is
installed but I would guess it is close to HQ. (follow the links in
this blog post: APT Bookscan 1200 http://blog.logos.com/mt-cgi/mt-search.cgi?search=page+scanner&IncludeBlogs=1&limit=20 )

Drastic changes are taking place in the world labor markets. The
economies of China and India are burgeoning. There is more parity of
compensation with US counterparts. Logos can not hire $200-a-day coders
for $10. They never could. (The 1970s did have disparity of 20 to 1 in
the general labor pool.) If there is ever a windfall profit for Logos it
is not found by exporting jobs, but by automating them. The fact the
product is digital saves enormously on material cost, handling, shipping
and updating. (That is where potential windfalls will be found.)

The idea of reinvesting profits into the company in the form of new
features, quality CS, and new resources seems wise to me. [8-|]

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/169215#Comment_169215

Logos exports most of that work over seas. Yes, there is extensive auditing and editing here stateside, but quite frankly, the most laborious of this effort is done over seas just like your blue jeans and everything else you buy. If this isn't the senario now, it was in the past. I seriously doubt they have varied from this practice, as it is a huge cost saver.

Although Logos is predominantly an American company by common definition, they have a multi-national presence. The exchange of labor and brain-trust is bidirectional. I am not privy to all the financial details but it would not surprise me to find your scenario no longer applies. I do not know where the high dollar equipment is installed but I would guess it is close to HQ.

I'm not sure whether they're still doing it, but the most Logos used overseas labor for was keying in text (or fixing the typos in scanned text). I'm pretty sure the tagging was all done in-house because it required specialty knowledge.

Wayne

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/169280#Comment_169280

I am in the process of giving away the remaining books of what was at one time a 800 volume library. The reason is that we are planning on moving continents and the price of freight makes it totally unpractical to take more than few volumes. If we didn't have Logos, we might have taken about a 100 volumes, now it is less than 50.

I am by nature a tight wad, but want Logos to maintain a high enough price to remain viable as a business in the future. I like carrying a 2,000 volume library in my computer and would like to do that for the rest of my life.

Lynden O. Williams

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/169571#Comment_169571

I like carrying a 2,000 volume library in my computer and would like to do that for the rest of my life.

[Y]

Tony Thomas

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/169584#Comment_169584

I definitely agree that electronics formats are preferable to paper books. But I think I will still be using some of the bound versions until I can afford to replace them with the Logos versions since that seems to be an expensive proposition, especially if they are not included in the extant bundles. I may also buy some of the newer ones in ePub since they are relatively cheap and quickly available. Plus, it saves trees and space.