Beating a dead horse

Hate to bring this up again but it's a "burr under my saddle". The price Logos charges for public domain works. I was SO DISAPPOINTED when John Gill was put on Pre-Pub. There's Barnes, which is a public domain item- it will probabley sell for $35.00 at the end----and there's Gill, $200.00!

Barnes: 10,000 pages + $35.00

Gill 12,000 + $200.00.

Maddening!

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TCBlack

Poor horse. [:^)]

It's all about demand, cost and potential to recoup that cost.

In terms of volume Barnes could easily have cost $500; but nobody is willing to pay that for it. I'm certainly not. In fact the most you can pay for Barnes right now is $90. But judging by the curve not as many people are willing to pay that much. True the sweet spot appears to be in the $30 range; but that also translates into LOTS of customers.

I'd wager the customer base at this point is much lower for Gill (in terms of numbers - not usability)

If Gill had gone through CP (did it?) it would have been much, much lower at the time. Case in point, even though Barnes might go off CP at $30 someday, it won't stay there - "Estimated Pre-Pub Price: $89.95" Yes that's still low, but the estimated sale price is even higher for Barnes.

Todd Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168357#Comment_168357

I think all public domain works should go through CP to determine their true worth. Arbitrarily setting a price that's too high keeps the work from ever becoming available, even for those who are willing to pay that price.

Fred Chapman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168371#Comment_168371

I think all public domain works should go through CP to determine their true worth. Arbitrarily setting a price that's too high keeps the work from ever becoming available, even for those who are willing to pay that price.

I agree Todd

Edwin Bowden

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168412#Comment_168412

I think all public domain works should go through CP to determine their true worth. Arbitrarily setting a price that's too high keeps the work from ever becoming available, even for those who are willing to pay that price.

I agree Todd

Agreed!

Shawn Drewett

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168416#Comment_168416

GREED!

Ronald Quick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168416#Comment_168416

I think you would see a lot more people placing orders if the public domain resources started on the community pricing page. After they reach 100% they go to the prepub page anyway.

By the way, I wouldn't complain if Logos took Gill off the prepub page and put it on the CP page. I would place my order again.[:)]

Shawn Drewett

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168441#Comment_168441

Actually, I wished for years for Gill in Logos format then when it finally came I was so disappointed that it was so expensive. Gill's was the first commentary I ever used on my fist pc. I downloaded from Online Bible. It became my favorite. Then after watching Barnes for so long I naturally assumed Gill would be CP. I have no intention of paying $200.00 for it.

Simon’s Brother

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168371#Comment_168371

I think all public domain works should go through CP to determine their true worth. Arbitrarily setting a price that's too high keeps the work from ever becoming available, even for those who are willing to pay that price.

[Y].

Like OP I am bewildered at the price of some PD works. I understand the work that goes into them to make them so much better than what one can get for free but Lets get these things on Community Pricing first. And really get Community Pricing promoted as a real alternative to the low end and free bible software out there that offers the same titles. Hopefully the new website will give community pricing more of a spotlight.

The risk is been taken at the other end of the scale with EEC... why not take it at the bottom end of the scale. Logos fill up Community Pricing page with a good range of Public Domain titles, not simply 5 from the same author, and work with John Barry to get a regular spot in Bible Study Magazine promoting Community Pricing and highlight one or two of the titles on offer each month. Make some web banners that those with sites can use to promote CP. Its time to really work community pricing to see how much bang for our buck as a community can really get.

There are users out there who are trying to encourage ordinary people out there who otherwise might not consider using bible software to give it some consideration. Get a good range of PD works in Logos and offer them as a very low-end package so these users actually have a Logos package they can offer to these first time bible software users that compares what with in price to what these first time

</rant status="off">

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168357#Comment_168357

Poor horse.

I just want to point out that it is more humane to beat a dead horse than a live one.[:P]

BillS

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168476#Comment_168476

Poor horse.

I just want to point out that it is more humane to beat a dead horse than a live one.

Besides, we've always done it that way.... [;)]

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168476#Comment_168476

Poor horse.

I just want to point out that it is more humane to beat a dead horse than a live one.

Just remember: When the horse is dead, dismount.

Simon’s Brother

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168483#Comment_168483

Poor horse.

I just want to point out that it is more humane to beat a dead horse than a live one.

Just remember: When the horse is dead, dismount.

I've also found it easier to flog the said dead horse if I had first dismounted it.

But getting back on topic Community pricing unlike a Dead Horse still has lots of life in it.. it just needs a kinight in shning armour at Logos to take the bull by the horns.

Fred Chapman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168480#Comment_168480

Besides, we've always done it that way

That sounds like the deacons in my church[;)]

Tony Thomas

I wish that Logos would implement a "Group Buy" model for public domain works after they have been released. That way, a bunch of people could get together and buy what they want at a greatly reduced price. Logos would get revenue and everyone would be able to get what they want at a great price. It would be a win/win situation!

Tony

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168586#Comment_168586

It would be a win/win situation!

Does that mean you are considering restricting it to the Windows environment? [;)]

Tony Thomas

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168594#Comment_168594

OK, make that a Win/Mac situation![:)]

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168612#Comment_168612

OK, make that a Win/Mac situation!

Definitely not a Mac/Win situation. Smile (in the spirit of beating a dead horse)

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168616#Comment_168616

OK, make that a Win/Mac situation!

Definitely not a Mac/Win situation. (in the spirit of beating a dead horse)

I like the Win/Mac situation. I am ready for a new Mac. Perhaps I can win one [:D]

Dan Sheppard

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168577#Comment_168577

That sounds like the deacons in my church

No, Fred. I think that is more like old cows.

Steve Shelton

I paid $200 for John Gill's Commentary over 25 year ago. I wish the prepub price was cheaper. I wish it would have been on the community buy list, and yet the prepub is not really a bad price in lieu of what I paid for the hard copy over 25 years ago. There is a lot of work which goes into a Logos publication. I doubt whether there is much of an audience in our day and time for John Gill. I am just thankful Logos is going to publish it. I hope there is enough prepub buyers.

Peter Banks

No body is against anyone earning an honest dollor. On the whole I would give Logos an 80%

However, I find interesting however that the public domain capacity found in the PBB was withdrawn when version 4 came out. When Barnes, Baxter, Gill, John Owen Calvin and other puritan collections were under developement.

I suspect that for business reasons, it would be better if Logos focused on doing what does a good job of i.e. Bringing out new resources that are still under copyright and restore the capacities for Public domains Stuff as soon as possible.

There really is a feeling of being ripped off over these old treasures that really should be free or very low cost..

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/169594#Comment_169594

find interesting however that the public domain capacity found in the PBB was withdrawn when version 4 came out

PBB was not withdrawn. It is simply not yet implemented. I seriously doubt that Logos had a ulterior motive when they set the priorities for the implementation of features when they developed L4.

There really is a feeling of being ripped off over these old treasures that really should be free or very low cost..

They are still free, just not in Logos format. If Logos does not make a profit, there will be no resources, free or otherwise.

Frankly, I feel that your thinly veiled accusation is out of line.

Fred Chapman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/169633#Comment_169633

find interesting however that the public domain capacity found in the PBB was withdrawn when version 4 came out

PBB was not withdrawn. It is simply not yet implemented. I seriously doubt that Logos had a ulterior motive when they set the priorities for the implementation of features when they developed L4.

There really is a feeling of being ripped off over these old treasures that really should be free or very low cost..

They are still free, just not in Logos format. If Logos does not make a profit, there will be no resources, free or otherwise.

Frankly, I feel that your thinly veiled accusation is out of line.

Jack I'm with you on this one. Logos spends a lot of time and money up front to tag and index these resources and there is a lot of overhead to provide the engine that runs it all. An engine that they give away.

I am a fan of letting the market work; meaning that if they offer a product that people want for a price people are willing to pay, Logos will succeed. If they do not they will fail. Given the success of their business to date, I would say the market is speaking clearly and they are doing just fine.

I cannot recall how many years I have had a debit card number listed with Logos for the purchase of resources. In all that time every charge they have processed has been at my request, thus there is no one ripping me off.

My problem is not with Logos. My problem is my uncontrollable addiction to try and compete with Rosie's resource library[:O]

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/169636#Comment_169636

My problem is my uncontrollable addiction to try and compete with Rosie's resource library

I can't compete with that addiction! I would probably learn that my bride's temper can match her hair color. [:D]

Fred Chapman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/169641#Comment_169641

My problem is my uncontrollable addiction to try and compete with Rosie's resource library

I can't compete with that addiction! I would probably learn that my bride's temper can match her hair color.

I think I almost have my wife convinced regarding the benefit of a large resource library and that there are a lot of advantages to living in a car. [;)]

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/169594#Comment_169594

On the whole I would give Logos an 80%

Would that be approval rating or profit margin? (I think their take is a lot lower in the profit realm.)

However, I find interesting however that the public domain capacity found in the PBB was withdrawn when version 4 came out. When Barnes, Baxter, Gill, John Owen Calvin and other puritan collections were under developement.

You can still have access to all the PBB books by maintaining a Libronix installation on one of your compuers. (I do.) So there is no real conspiracy to deny you access to the public domain works.

I have owned Logos software since version 1.6 but also collected and used most every other Bible software written in English. I had already amassed a library covering the public domain sector in other program formats because they were lower priced than the Libronix versions.

It was not an easy thing for Logos to convince me to buy Spurgeon, Calvin and some Puritan fathers when I had all of them in PDF or other formats. They had to offer a lot more than just text on the screen. I'm happy they did win me over. I have not only been liquidating my dead-tree library but also the digital redundancy on my computers. I now maintain other programs only for their exclusive resources. None of them compares to Logos.

There really is a feeling of being ripped off over these old treasures

I don't feel ripped off because every time Logos has me over the barrel and could price-gouge me, they instead treat me as a good friend and send me home smiling.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/169670#Comment_169670

There really is a feeling of being ripped off over these old treasures

I don't feel ripped off because every time Logos has me over the barrel and could price-gouge me, they instead treat me as a good friend and send me home smiling.

This would be a good time to remind people that developing a relationship with a Sales Rep is a good thing. You'll end up feeling more and more like you're being treated as a friend of Logos, and you'll be smiling every time you purchase resources from Logos! [:)] The Sales Reps are there to work for you as well as for Logos. If you've ever bought through a Sales Rep before, be sure to remember that person's name and ask for them again in the future. They'll get a commission from it so you know you're rewarding them for good work, and you'll also get better deals that way... They're all terrific people, so I won't mention anyone in particular.

Ronald Quick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/169788#Comment_169788

I do the same. I always buy through a sales rep.