Back and Forward History in L4
There are many, many reasons I continue to use L3 as my main Logos resource, just using L4 mostly for certain kinds of searches, its presentation of my Library, and occasionally for extended reading in a floating pane. One of the reasons I find L4 at times excruciatingly annoying is the disappearance of many features I use regularly, such as the Back and Forward buttons on windows.
As the picture below shows, L4 has such "buttons" but with one significant feature missing.
L3, as the picture below shows, has "down" buttons next to the Back and Forward buttons each of which displays approximately 10 "clicks" in that direction. This is an invaluable resource, allowing the ability to both see what is in both directions before I start clicking around trying to find the page I am looking for, and also allowing for quick bulk clicking to reduce the number of clicks necessary to get to resources I was using hours ago or even days ago. In L4...It's all just one big guess. Am I even clicking in the right direction? Who knows?
Since I don't use L4 all that much, I am sure I don't know all that it has under the hood, so maybe I'm overlooking this? I hope so...because otherwise it just confirms to me that L4 is inferior to L3 in many extremely important ways. I wish I didn't feel that way...but I do, and I don't see that ever changing.
ASUS ProArt x570s Creator, AMD R9 5950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, ASUS Strix RTX 2080 ti
"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
Comments
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You can get at much more history than 10 "clicks" in L4 through the History panel (Tools > History).
David Paul said:Since I don't use L4 all that much, I am sure I don't know all that it has under the hood, so maybe I'm overlooking this? I hope so...because otherwise it just confirms to me that L4 is inferior to L3 in many extremely important ways. I wish I didn't feel that way...but I do, and I don't see that ever changing.
I think the more you use L4 the more you'll learn what it has under the hood and the more you will become impressed at what it can do. Take some time to learn it better (read all the pages links from the wiki Table of Contents, experiment in L4 as you go, and also watch some more of the user-created videos), and your time will be rewarded. There might still be a couple of things you'll miss from L3, for a while, but I do see that changing. Logos developers continue to be very responsive to our requests, and have even brought back features from L3 that they at first said they were never going to reimplement (Smart Tags, for example). Keep your hopes up!
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Rosie Perera said:
You can get at much more history than 10 "clicks" in L4 through the History panel (Tools > History).
David Paul said:Since I don't use L4 all that much, I am sure I don't know all that it has under the hood, so maybe I'm overlooking this? I hope so...because otherwise it just confirms to me that L4 is inferior to L3 in many extremely important ways. I wish I didn't feel that way...but I do, and I don't see that ever changing.
I think the more you use L4 the more you'll learn what it has under the hood and the more you will become impressed at what it can do.
Hmmm, talking about having a lot under the hood...I just looked at the History report you referenced, and it looks like it has every single page I've looked at in the last 6 months (or longer)...all in one big pile...no differentiation between info from different windows...Bibles, TWOT, HALOT, Strong's, Zodhiates, etc., etc....in one huge pile, all mixed together like someone gave it a great big shake. I am "impressed", Rosie...with how nearly worthless such a jumble of disjointed information is to me. One thing it most certainly IS NOT--the simple one-click drop down menu choice that gave me INSTANT recognition and access to the information I want. NOT EVEN CLOSE.
It's all very, very sad really. [:'(]
ASUS ProArt x570s Creator, AMD R9 5950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, ASUS Strix RTX 2080 ti
"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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David, I would like a quick drop down on the back/forward arrows, too. Thought about that frequently.
That said, I did not even know about the History pane. While not as simple as the arrow idea, I find it quite useful. I would probably only be looking for my most recent places (hence, David, i am not too worried about how jumbled a mass of stuff it is), but it is nice to know that if I have opened an obscure book, then closed it, and wanted to access it later, but forgot the name . . . the history could help me find it.
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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David Paul said:
Hmmm, talking about having a lot under the hood...I just looked at the History report you referenced, and it looks like it has every single page I've looked at in the last 6 months (or longer)...all in one big pile...no differentiation between info from different windows...
I totally agree with you, which is why I'd already just reported a couple of suggestions for improvement (even before seeing your response):
http://community.logos.com/forums/t/22858.aspx
http://community.logos.com/forums/t/22860.aspx
And I would heartily support bringing back the old dropdown arrows on the forward and back buttons from L3!
You were just asking if there was anything you didn't know about in L4 that might kinda do what you were missing from L3, and I was merely obliging. Didn't mean to imply that it obviated the need for what you were asking for. Don't give up hope. They really, really are responsive to user requests. Yes it's very sad that this is missing, though. Go ahead and weep, and keep using L3 for now. I appreciate your need to do that.
UPDATE: I've added it as a suggestion on the Suggestions forum (http://community.logos.com/forums/t/22861.aspx) and I've also added it on UserVoice, where you can go and vote for it. That works! They've implemented quite a number of features now that we've requested that way, and have more in the works.
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Dan DeVilder said:
it is nice to know that if I have opened an obscure book, then closed it, and wanted to access it later, but forgot the name . . . the history could help me find it.
Yes, this is pretty much all I use it for, because Search has its own dropdown arrow to get to previous searches, and hitting the back button a couple of times usually gets me back to where I want to go within a resource. But I agree the dropdown arrows like in L4 would be really nice.
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Rosie Perera said:
UPDATE: I've added it as a suggestion on the Suggestions forum (http://community.logos.com/forums/t/22861.aspx) and I've also added it on UserVoice, where you can go and vote for it. That works! They've implemented quite a number of features now that we've requested that way, and have more in the works.
I need more votes on User voice... this is another one of those productivity suggestions that just need to happen... For now all I can do its add my virtual vote here and in the suggestions forums. I've run out of things I can cull on user voice..... sigh.....
[Y]
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Yeah, I wish I had another 10 votes to use on UserVoice. I've been very tempted at times to sign up for a second account...
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Rosie Perera said:
I agree the dropdown arrows like in L4
we know you mean L3 . . .(wink wink)
Rosie Perera said:hitting the back button a couple of times
This is what I don't like: I can't specify exactly where I want to go . . . I have to slog through 5 different resources/locations (or whatever). The drop-down allows us to skip over that nonsense (plus, sometimes, I don't remember exactly which resource in the pane--eg, one with 5 Bibles--is the one I want to "go back" through.)
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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Rosie Perera said:
Yeah, I wish I had another 10 votes to use on UserVoice. I've been very tempted at times to sign up for a second account...
I'd end up with too many accounts to manage if I start doing that.....
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David Paul said:
one huge pile, all mixed together like someone gave it a great big shake. I am "impressed", Rosie...with how nearly worthless such a jumble of disjointed information is to me. One thing it most certainly IS NOT--the simple one-click drop down menu choice that gave me INSTANT recognition and access to the information I want. NOT EVEN CLOSE.
David, this was why I gave up on History early in the beta process. I've not seen or heard any reason to revisit it.
It is frustrating because Logos does so many things so well. Yet irritants like this ..
Regards, SteveF
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David Paul said:
L3, as the picture below shows, has "down" buttons next to the Back and Forward buttons each of which displays approximately 10 "clicks" in that direction. This is an invaluable resource, allowing the ability to both see what is in both directions before I start clicking around trying to find the page I am looking for, and also allowing for quick bulk clicking to reduce the number of clicks necessary to get to resources I was using hours ago or even days ago. In L4...It's all just one big guess. Am I even clicking in the right direction? Who knows?
Your picture shows the "down" buttons in L4 with the label indicating that the click will fetch the next/previous Article. The major difference is that L4 cannot skip by Resource. So where is the "guessing" when the arrows work the same way as L3? When you advance by Resource in L3 it keeps the same passage. In L4 you do that with the keyboard left and right arrows, taking advantage of the resources in a Parallel Resource set which you have defined. The Back button will then reverse thru those resources and all the passages in that resource before continuing to another resource!
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:
Your picture shows the "down" buttons in L4 with the label indicating that the click will fetch the next/previous Article. The major difference is that L4 cannot skip by Resource. So where is the "guessing" when the arrows work the same way as L3?
The down arrows don't work the same as in L3. If you click the down arrow beside the Back button in L3, it will drop down a menu containing up to 10 of the previous locations in that resource where you were, in order of when you visited them, and you can select one of them to jump to immediately. Same for the Forward button when it's available (if you've already stepped back).
This does really appear to be functionality that is missing in L4. You can look in the History tool, but it's all jumbled up with locations in different resources. A focused list of just the past locations in the current resource is not available anywhere.
You can of course use the "wear marks" (auto bookmarks) on the scroll bar, but I find those incredibly hard to use, and you have to hover over a whole bunch of them to find the one you're looking for. They get in the way more than they are beneficial, so I keep them turned off.
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Rosie Perera said:
You can of course use the "wear marks" (auto bookmarks) on the scroll bar, but I find those incredibly hard to use, and you have to hover over a whole bunch of them to find the one you're looking for. They get in the way more than they are beneficial, so I keep them turned off.
I agree. In theory they ought to be a very nice feature but I rarely use them. I am still searching for the "why" of their not being more beneficial - generally and in Logos - but still have not pinpointed a precise suggestion.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Rosie Perera said:
If you click the down arrow beside the Back button in L3
Ahhh, I missed the obvious one! And, yes, the function is not as readily available in L4.
So I am open to a suggestion to improve the History function in L4 along the lines of the L3 down arrow although I (obviously) don't use/miss the history in either (including the Go | History item in L3).
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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MJ. Smith said:Rosie Perera said:
You can of course use the "wear marks" (auto bookmarks) on the scrollbar, but I find those incredibly hard to use, and you have to hover over a whole bunch of them to find the one you're looking for. They get in the way more than they are beneficial, so I keep them turned off.
I agree. In theory they ought to be a very nice feature but I rarely use them. I am still searching for the "why" of their not being more beneficial - generally and in Logos - but still have not pinpointed a precise suggestion.
Maybe Logos was aiming at these wear marks replacing the functionality we are discussing... if that's the case for me their aim has missed the target (a nice idea but it just ain't useful to the point I'd forgotten about them to they were brought up because I'm so used to ignoring them), a bit like what they did with the interlinear data being removed from the text... that totally missed the aim for my needs also, so glad the inline option is back. Hoping this choices on History Browsing will be reviewed soon (especially since 4.1 has now been moved to RC status.... bring on the post 4.1 final missing pieces and productivity improvement -we are a hard bunch to please.)
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Andrew McKenzie said:
Hoping this choices on History Browsing will be reviewed soon (especially since 4.1 has now been moved to RC status.... bring on the post 4.1 final missing pieces and productivity improvement -we are a hard bunch to please.)
I think being in RC status means they'll only do bug fixes from here out, not feature enhancements or re-implementing something missing from L3. Too risky that it might break something else. So I guess we can hope for it in the next version. Any guesses on whether that will be called 4.1a or 4.2? [:)]
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Rosie Perera said:Andrew McKenzie said:
Hoping this choices on History Browsing will be reviewed soon (especially since 4.1 has now been moved to RC status.... bring on the post 4.1 final missing pieces and productivity improvement -we are a hard bunch to please.)
I think being in RC status means they'll only do bug fixes from here out, not feature enhancements or re-implementing something missing from L3. Too risky that it might break something else. So I guess we can hope for it in the next version. Any guesses on whether that will be called 4.1a or 4.2?
Yeap that's why I hinted at Post 4.1
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The "wear marks" were wearing on my patience...I had so many of them on my scroll bar that it made it nearly impossible for me to just grab the scroll bar and do what it is supposed to do: scroll. I turned the whole thing off.
I don't have a problem with History--it has it's place...though I virtually never use it. But trying to accomplish what I originally posted simply ain't on it's "can do" list. I often have up to 30+ windows open in Logos at any given time. I switch between them frequently and follow strings of verse links sometimes 15-20 pages deep. Given my own usage patterns, History ought to be called "grab bag"--a big pot full of whatever has happened lately. I need my "history" to be WINDOW SPECIFIC...just like in L3, to include the drop-down 10-deep "back" and 10-deep "forward" menus. Without that, L4 is nearly worthless to me for my "meat and potatoes" usage. For me, L4 is sorta like an "idiot savant"--just not terrible good at handling the normal routine, but capable of some fairly impressive "parlor trick" activities.
The distance between the two (L3 and L4) is so great, I regretfully don't see the gulf ever being overcome. I recognize that others get great usage out of L4, and I'm glad for them. I don't. Wish I did, but I don't. This biggest gripe I have is the 2 inch square note window. For me, that is an insurmountable game-killer. But I digress. I would LOVE to see this particular BUG fixed. Please return this bit of functionality to L4.
Thanks.
ASUS ProArt x570s Creator, AMD R9 5950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, ASUS Strix RTX 2080 ti
"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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Andrew McKenzie said:
Maybe Logos was aiming at these wear marks replacing the functionality we are discussing...
The wear marks are not a History - they bookmark passages in canonical order and only for that resource! I'd be quite happy for these two unused features to made into something useful...
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Not sure what you mean by that....David Paul said:This biggest gripe I have is the 2 inch square note window.
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Dave Hooton said:Andrew McKenzie said:
Maybe Logos was aiming at these wear marks replacing the functionality we are discussing...
The wear marks are not a History - they bookmark passages in canonical order and only for that resource! I'd be quite happy for these two unused features to made into something useful...
Not complete history agree but they are the history of verses I have looked at in that resource and, I think, that is part of the issue being raised. The backward and forward arrows don't act like 'Time Machine' and allow you to choose a specific verse to go back to in that resource, but instead you have to back track them all. History Browser does act like time machine, but doesn't throws in all your 'browsing' history in one bag.. it does clarify which resource the link came from but does not give you the option to display the results by resource title first and then date / time second. I'd like to see this option plus have the full function of back/forward history drop down access within the current resource as per L3.... but am open to further additions to those ideas.
Orange wear marks appear in both canonical and non-canonical resources as indicators of search results. If recently viewed page marker wear marks were to appear in non-canonical resources they would very soon accumulate to the point of being no value at all. Now if they only showed up where you had accessed that resource from a link, then they might be of some value but I'm undecided on how much value it really would be....
Currently show auto and favourite bookmarks are lumped into one setting. If I understand favourite bookmarks then these should be distinct settings rather than 1 lump.... but since help file is very shallow on program settings what is being referred to could be different to my assumption on what it means.
I might find wear marks for favourite bookmarks helpful if I could untangle them form autobook marks but since I can't I can only speculate.
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Andrew McKenzie said:
Not sure what you mean by that....David Paul said:This biggest gripe I have is the 2 inch square note window.
Not sure what to make of your "not being sure". Either you don't use notes very much or it's something else I can't comprehend--unless, perhaps, you have never used L3? First, since I know you have L4, simply put your cursor over a note you have--make it a longish note--then notice how big the pop-up window is. I have notes that run 20-30 pages or longer. In L3 the pop-up window for the note will expand to as large as the window you are operating in if the note is large enough to fill that space. But in L4, you get 2 square inches of real estate MAX.
Some people use rinky-dink programs like PowerPoint to support their Bible studies and sermons. I don't. I use the Note function of L3 and I let the power of Logos wow my audience. I don't necessarily get "ooohs" and "aaahs" (although I have)--just lots of questions of "what program are you using?"
My answer?
"Logos...but the new version of the program can't do this." That's flat out SAD. Actually, it's worse than sad, but if I said what I really think it is, the L4 fanboys would try to turn me into shophars. [:#] [8-)]
ASUS ProArt x570s Creator, AMD R9 5950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, ASUS Strix RTX 2080 ti
"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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David Paul said:
Some people use rinky-dink programs like PowerPoint to support their Bible studies and sermons.
Come on. Is there good reason for not showing respect?
Note: I'm not a PowerPoint user - but I do want the forums to be PP-User friendly.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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David Paul said:Andrew McKenzie said:
Not sure what you mean by that....David Paul said:This biggest gripe I have is the 2 inch square note window.
Not sure what to make of your "not being sure". Either you don't use notes very much or it's something else I can't comprehend--unless, perhaps, you have never used L3? First, since I know you have L4, simply put your cursor over a note you have--make it a longish note--then notice how big the pop-up window is. I have notes that run 20-30 pages or longer. In L3 the pop-up window for the note will expand to as large as the window you are operating in if the note is large enough to fill that space. But in L4, you get 2 square inches of real estate MAX.
Some people use rinky-dink programs like PowerPoint to support their Bible studies and sermons. I don't. I use the Note function of L3 and I let the power of Logos wow my audience. I don't necessarily get "ooohs" and "aaahs" (although I have)--just lots of questions of "what program are you using?"
My answer?
"Logos...but the new version of the program can't do this." That's flat out SAD. Actually, it's worse than sad, but if I said what I really think it is, the L4 fanboys would try to turn me into shophars.
Thank for clarifying I suspected you might have been refer to that particular shortcoming of L4 but didn't want to assume.
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I just realized that I had forgotten about this drop down in L3 and how useful it was.
I'm going to vote for it, it seems like something that would be very useful to me.
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Logos User Voice suggestion for Right Click History: Go Back & Forward => http://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-5/suggestions/3394880-right-cick-history-go-back-forward has 26 votes; every Logos user has 10 votes: up to 3 can be for any one suggestion. Right click in a tab to go forward or back in tab history would be appreciated.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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