I have Scholar's - and got a 463MB download last night. What was it?
It included updated Biblical People/Places/Things databases, updated Logos Controlled Vocabulary Database, and an updated Help file.
This was a resource update that included Biblical People, Biblical Things, Biblical Places, LCV Data (I believe this is a vocabulary file that controls the topics tool, Logos Help File, and a couple of other odds and ends.
You can see what resources were added to your system by accessing the Logos Reources folder and sorting by <date modified>
SEE: An update is downloading, what is it
But the short answer is that it was Biblical people, places and things, help file and a few other things perhaps.
Yet again I need to refresh the page before crafting a reply. [:$]
Is there no way to see what was in those updates though?
It'd be nice to see specifically what the changes were, like a changelog (a common file or list offered by most software companies for their updated products).
Is there no way to see what was in those updates though? It'd be nice to see specifically what the changes were, like a changelog (a common file or list offered by most software companies for their updated products).
Totally agree Jeremy and consider adding your vote to an overally improved download system at
http://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-4/suggestions/513797-implement-more-user-control-over-downloads-update?ref=title
When I started Logos tonight it started downloading 704 MB! Still going, not sure what it is...I ordered the ESV Study Bible but surely it is not that big of a file. Is there something wrong with my Logos?
Well, if you hadn't downloaded the updated Biblical People/Places/Things databases yet, that'll account for 400+ MB. The maps are what take up most of the space. And the ESV Study Bible is 245MB. It's got lots of maps in it too.
Rosie, if the ESV Study Bibl is 245MB so the study notes should be less. I had allready the updated databases yesterday, so what more than the notes were downloaded as I had an over 400 download this morning??
ESV Study Bible and Study Notes is the same thing.... its 245MB.
Andrew, I already had the ESV so I only ordered the study notes on prepub so the download should have been only the notes and still what are the other 200mb download??
The basics notes are a 245mb download.. the esv bible is an additional download on top of that so you would have gotten a 245mb download for the notes. As to what else you might have gotten try the following suggestions http://wiki.logos.com/An_update_is_downloading,_what_is_it
We are as much in the dark on what is getting downloaded to our computers as you are when it comes to what is being downloaded to ours...
The ESV text is only 18MB. The study notes are 257MB. You can see the details of the file sizes here: http://www.logos.com/products/details/5253. Those who ordered the Study Bible bundle (Study Bible notes + ESV text) got all of that. Those who ordered just the notes got just the 257MB. Still it's big, because of the maps.
Incidentally, the "notes" resource (which is separate from the ESV text) is titled "The ESV Study Bible" in Logos, which might be part of the confusion.
.... we interrupt normal programming to get something of our chest........
Logos, which might be part of the confusion.
Trying desperately to [:#] it but Logos is the source of this confusion... and will continue to be the source of this confusion until they do what their users have been asking for,and their asking for it because they (the users) expect it, because all other software companies do it and that is inform their customers of what is about to be downloaded to the customers computer before it is downloaded and what the size of that download is, and they give the customer the option to delay that update to a more convenient time. This is one area where I have to continue to give Logos 4 the [N]
If you asked over the last few days what was that that just downloaded to my system and haven't already, please add your vote for Logos to lift their game in this area of what is otherwise a great tool......... just follow this link:
...we now return you to normal programming and hope you are enjoying your new esv study bible notes in Logos 4
Trying desperately to "> it but Logos is the source of this confusion... and will continue to be the source of this confusion until they do what their users have been asking for,and their asking for it because they (the users) expect it, because all other software companies do it and that is inform their customers of what is about to be downloaded to the customers computer before it is downloaded and what the size of that download is, and they give the customer the option to delay that update to a more convenient time
Hi Andrew,
We have been asking for this for almost a year--it goes back to private beta testing of L4 and when we first were told that Logos does not want to do this for the reasons they have cited. (Many threads on this.) Frankly, I had hoped and invested energy into this but I really am giving up on the system changing in this area. Others may be hopeful. I have decided to work around it and basically try to forget about it because it is out of my control and I will not become frustrated with every update as I wonder and search the forums to learn what it is. It takes work and time to do that which I do not have.
I am grateful for all the resources and great commentary deals lately that Logos has been offering; my library is much more than I ever imagined!
I completely understand why Logos don't want us selecting part but not all of an update, and I'm willing to accept this.
But there's no real reason why they can't let us know what's been updated (or even what's about to be updated). Our software knows exactly what's going on, it just doesn't tell us. A few dozen lines of code would solve the problem.
I completely understand why Logos don't want us selecting part but not all of an update, and I'm willing to accept this. But there's no real reason why they can't let us know what's been updated (or even what's about to be updated). Our software knows exactly what's going on, it just doesn't tell us. A few dozen lines of code would solve the problem.
This topic comes up at every update. For a while we were getting lists in the forums, but not this time, and at either point the forum isn't good enough. Only a subset of users access the forums. Put it in the popup in the system tray.
We need a list of what is being updated.
This topic comes up at every update. For a while we were getting lists in the forums, but not this time, and at either point the forum isn't good enough. Only a subset of users access the forums. Put it in the popup in the system tray. We need a list of what is being updated.
Or at the very least, a link in the system tray popup that says "click here to see a list of what's being updated" and then a link to the forum post (assuming there is one).
I completely understand why Logos don't want us selecting part but not all of an update, and I'm willing to accept this. But there's no real reason why they can't let us know what's been updated (or even what's about to be updated). Our software knows exactly what's going on, it just doesn't tell us. A few dozen lines of code would solve the problem. This topic comes up at every update. For a while we were getting lists in the forums, but not this time, and at either point the forum isn't good enough. Only a subset of users access the forums. Put it in the popup in the system tray. We need a list of what is being updated.
I've been trying futilely to keep the wiki page about what resources have been updated up-to-date whenever there's a forum announcment, but I inevitably miss some, and in many cases (for small updates) they don't post on the forum.
I strongly agree that we need this in the app. The item to vote for on UserVoice is now this one, not this one. The former currently has 357 votes, and the latter 134. The latter requests selective user control over what is going to be downloaded, which they have stated they aren't going to implement, and for good reasons. So votes on that item are wasted votes. It's remarkable how many people have placed 3 votes on the former. We really want it! It's now the 5th most popular request on the UserVoice forum, second only to "Make an intelligent flashcard program" (and only by two votes) among features Logos has yet to respond on.
This may be totally irrelevant but I only ask because NOBODY uses my Logos 4 netbook but me and the weird stuff started happening immediately after the latest download.
My netbook had two new programs in addition to the latest Logos download. I understand the malware nature of the "Security Tool" virus and am purging my system of it. I discovered Carbonite and wondered if Logos uses this in any fashion to sync Version 4.
Please let me know if deleting Carbonite is detrimental to Logos 4 functioning properly.
(Now I need to add biometric scanners to my netbook.)
I've been trying futilely to keep the wiki page about what resources have been updated up-to-date whenever there's a forum announcment, but I inevitably miss some, and in many cases (for small updates) they don't post on the forum. Thanks Rosie, I forgot about that page.
I forgot to include the link to that page (as if it matters). You can always find it again from the right sidebar in the Logos 4 Release Notes page if you forget where it is. I can't promise it'll be very accurate, and the info older than a few days old in it is pretty much moot now, except for historical curiosity.
I've placed a comment in the "wrong" uservoice suggesting people consider moving their vote over to the "proper" one.
Thank you! I had actualy just removed my opposite comments in both of those ideas, which I'd placed there some 5 months ago when the "wrong" one was leading by far in votes; I guess I thought it was more likely to move up in the ranking if people moved their votes from the less popular idea to that one and then maybe if I included a link from it to the other one, Logos would read it and reconsider. But I think voting for the best solution for both Logos and Users is more likely to get heard. And I think users are beginning to get the message that user control over downloads is not an option so they've been shifting their votes already on their own. The "proper" one is now up to fourth place, now the #1 request that Logos has yet to consider. Hopefully they'll have a chance to review the standings again after 4.1 ships and make some decisions about what to work on next. It would be nice if they could slip this in for 4.1a or 4.2 or whatever it's going to be called, along with the other already planned "missing features."
It included updated Biblical People/Places/Things databases, updated Logos Controlled Vocabulary Database, and an updated Help file. This may be totally irrelevant but I only ask because NOBODY uses my Logos 4 netbook but me and the weird stuff started happening immediately after the latest download. My netbook had two new programs in addition to the latest Logos download. I understand the malware nature of the "Security Tool" virus and am purging my system of it. I discovered Carbonite and wondered if Logos uses this in any fashion to sync Version 4. Please let me know if deleting Carbonite is detrimental to Logos 4 functioning properly. (Now I need to add biometric scanners to my netbook.)
Matthew, my son had that virus a while back. What finally got rid of it for us was Malwarebytes anti-malware (free version works fine). You can find it at CNet dot com (a known safe site).
BTW, I find no references to Carbonite by searching my files, though I haven't done a registry scan.
Glad to hear that. I downloaded Malwarebytes last night onto a USB flash drive and will begin the process soon.
I thought there may be a connection between the virus & Carbonite but I wanted to hear from Logos before I purge the registry. [^o)] Hmm. Maybe I ought to backup the 13GB of resources before I go tinkering. These things have a way of getting gnarly real quick.
Sorry to hear about your predicament Matthew, I'm battling a Blackberry issue as I type. No problems for more than two years and today.... wham!
I have placed my maximum three votes for giving more information on what is being downloaded! I don't understand why this won't even be reviewed!
Give it time Donovan. I'm sure it will happen.
I don't think it was on the first page of suggestions the last time they went through and reviewed. They'll probably do another review after 4.1 ships. It'll get more attention this time, I'm sure. Especially now that they see we've backed down on the request to give us control over what they download. We just want the info. They should be able to do that with their hands tied behind their back. These developers are very capable experts.
I am no asking for selective download of components of the download simply
1: this exactly what is about to be download
2. this is size of the download
3. do you wan to proceed now or have us remind you in 24hrs etc
I can not see how Logos believes they should not show users the common courtesy of doing this. It's not a big ask and it would save this endless thread of hey every one what was that 423MB last night about. I appreciate the work put into the wiki page to try and help people to answer that question but it's a question users should not have to ask in the first place and we should not have to put up suggestions to go poking around in this directory or that or open up this database file and look for this or sort by that.... I am comfortable with doing that but it should simply not have to be done. And Logos simply telling customers they dont' have to inform them what changes they are going to make to their systems, what sort of download size is involved and not giving them the option to hold off until a more convenient time simply speaks arrogance and rudeness and those are things I know Logos are not so why are they continuing down this path of acting this way when it comes to the privileged access they are being granted to users computers.
Edit Note: I don't like having to say some of what I have said but it has to be said there are lots of people feeling the same way but don't feel there is any point or don't feel they can speak up or simply don't even know they can speak up.. Logos we appreciate so much of what you do but you are badly letting you customers down on this issue, and hence yourselves. A solution will take time, but it will never happen while you keep ignoring it. Please change your thinking on this issue.
I am no asking for selective download of components of the download simply 1: this exactly what is about to be download 2. this is size of the download 3. do you wan to proceed now or have us remind you in 24hrs etc I can not see how Logos believes they should not show users the common courtesy of doing this. It's not a big ask and it would save this endless thread of hey every one what was that 423MB last night about. I appreciate the work put into the wiki page to try and help people to answer that question but it's a question users should not have to ask in the first place....
I can not see how Logos believes they should not show users the common courtesy of doing this. It's not a big ask and it would save this endless thread of hey every one what was that 423MB last night about. I appreciate the work put into the wiki page to try and help people to answer that question but it's a question users should not have to ask in the first place....
To this I agree.
As do I.
I am no asking for selective download of components of the download simply 1: this exactly what is about to be download 2. this is size of the download 3. do you wan to proceed now or have us remind you in 24hrs etc I can not see how Logos believes they should not show users the common courtesy of doing this. It's not a big ask and it would save this endless thread of hey every one what was that 423MB last night about. I appreciate the work put into the wiki page to try and help people to answer that question but it's a question users should not have to ask in the first place.... To this I agree.
I do too.
However, I don't think it's the most important thing Logos should be doing right now. In the priority of things, this one ranks pretty low for me. Especially since I know how to get my questions answered (granted, after the fact). More urgent are the features that are still missing from Logos, and code enhancement to speed things up. This would have been a great project to assign to an intern, but as far as I'm concerned, I'd rather the coders worked on other projects.
I really don't know what it would take to do this. It may be a simple add-on to the current download protocols and program. On the other hand, it may require a major rewrite of one or both. I suspect the latter, since Logos has done so much to address issues that have only required simple fixes.
So, while I think it's essential that Logos address this eventually, I don't think it's something they should put on their most urgent task list today.
[Just my opinion.]
I agree - it is only ranked 4th, so i can wait until tomorrow[;)]
So, while I think it's essential that Logos address this eventually, I don't think it's something they should put on their most urgent task list today. I agree - it is only ranked 4th, so i can wait until tomorrow
I agree - it is only ranked 4th, so i can wait until tomorrow
Given the choice on this issue in their initial design, I dont expect it to be fixed next week either. I wish they had of made a different choice but they didn't. But their will never be a fix until they stop ignoring it , and acknowledge it is a problem. We had the ability to see what was going to be downloaded in L3 in terms of resources so I would rate this as a missing feature that now needs to be expanded to show what program updates are being downloaded as well.
1: this exactly what is about to be download 2. this is size of the download 3. do you wan to proceed now or have us remind you in 24hrs etc
3 is less important and could happen after 1 & 2 are dealt with if it was more efficient in the long term, but whatever the approach to making it happen all three points should happen to make the whole process transparent to the user after all it is their computer - we don't license our hardware from Logos.
What's frustrating is that I'm sure it's an incredibly simple fix for Logos to display the names of the resources that are going to be updated. That is very low hanging fruit. I really can't see it being less than a couple of hours work - if that. All the information is there already, so all they have to do is display it.
Of course, once they do that, users are going to start asking for information about what has changed. That would require much more work, and I can understand why we'd have to wait for that, and that we may not get it at all. But that's still no reason to give us zero information…
I can remember when I was in Development and program management wouldn't be able to understand why something was going to take us X days when they thought it would be trivial. It's always risky being a back-seat driver on something like this. It might seem like a 2-hour task to someone who doesn't know the code. But I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt on this. It's probably way more than a 2-hour task. Just a hunch. I don't think anything I ever did turned out to be "just a two hour task" unless it was fixing a typo in a dialog box or something. We often would have to wait to recompile huge chunks of the code because of other changes other people were doing, so we couldn't be as efficient as a developer as our brain would have us be. We tried to have the major builds happen overnight, but then someone would made a careless goof and have checked in some file the night before without the requisite changed include file. So in the morning everyone would come in to find that the build had broken due to a compiler error. The guilty party would check in the updated include file but that would force a recompile of every source file in the project, so meanwhile the whole team might as well go off to a movie...
All this to say, things are never as trivial as they seem like they should be in software development.
Agreed Rosie which is why I'm not expecting this tomorrow, next week or next month. Lets just get it on the agenda at Logos instead of them pretending its not an issue and it should, as I said earlier, fall into the missing feature category because in L3 you could see the resources that were to be downloaded and the size of the download. In L4 you can't!
If they don't want to put in on the agenda then to me that is another worrying sign that their intent is to remove the desktop application all together, possibly Logos 5 or 6 is code named: 'Biblia" and being developed right before our eyes. I'm all for a cloud option when I am away from my desktop, but when I am my desktop I want a local application.
fall into the missing feature category because in L3 you could see the resources that were to be downloaded and the size of the download.
Which helped you with your Bible study how?
If they don't want to put in on the agenda then to me that is another worrying sign that their intent is to remove the desktop application all together, possibly Logos 5 or 6 is code named: 'Biblia" and being developed right before our eyes.
There's a leap of logic here that baffles me ... that they are slow to do something that doesn't provide additional functionality before they finish the promised functionality is a sign of ??? perhaps, setting priorities? listening to users gripe about missing functions? keeping promises regarding functions as well as possible (recognizing the slide in time frame)? Sorry I just can't get to "remove desktop application" from here.
fall into the missing feature category because in L3 you could see the resources that were to be downloaded and the size of the download. Which helped you with your Bible study how?
This whole thread is not about how this feature helps your bible study. So I don't get MJ why your are asking the question now. Its about program management, its about a software company accessing a users personal computer without telling them what it is they are going to change and how much data is involved in that change. If you don't live in a country where broadband is expensive and download limits are low then I accept you might not appreciate that last point but don't denigrate someone for whom that point does have meaning simply because you don't get it.
Whether its important personally to you or not it was a feature of L3 library management that is now not available in L4. If this feature was there we would not need to be discussing things like this and providing work around to answer user questions about what was contained in this or that download and could focus more on Bible Study, but like it or not the question and the issue exists for some users, just maybe not you.
I don't believe it is irrrelavent or inappropriate to expect any software company to provide that sort of information to its customers when the software company wants to make changes to the users computer. It is standard practice for the vast majority of software companies. I would trust Logos more than any other software company I deal with, but that does not mean I should let them off the hook on this issue.
There's a leap of logic here that baffles me ... I just can't get to "remove desktop application" from here.
If you don't then that's fine but once again you don't have to try and slay someone else just because you don't get it or dont' understand where they are coming from or where are going to...
MJ I appreciate your contributions and comments and rate them very highly on the majority of occasions and that will not change. But on this occasion I believe you have overstepped the mark. You are already forgiven [{] but what I have said needed to be said because as an MVP you response was totally inappropriate and unhelpful to the situation at hand. I wish there was a more discrete way to respond than this but these forums don't allow for private messages so forgive me for having to make these comments here.
I wish there was a more discrete way to respond than this but these forums don't allow for private messages so forgive me for having to make these comments here.
No problem. And, yes, I do understand the need to know - I grew up in what many would call a "remote rural village." My home 'town' claimed a population of 125 which had to include more livestock than Grandma's goats. My folks retired from a ranch where the telephone lines were hung on scrub oak because the hillside was too steep to install posts. I was nine before I was allowed to drive a tractor on county roads (gravel roads at least in theory). I was 40 before I could expect to reach my folks by phone (or email) in the winter. So yes, I know it is important that people can judge the cost of a download (and the probability that they'll actually get a download). I would understand and strongly support pressuring Logos to provide disks regularly and promptly.I would also understand pressure for expedited delivery and valuation that minimized import fees on updates.
What I don't understand, what was my motive for responding, was linking this issue to Logos' commitment to desktop applications and that Logos' prioritization of this very thorny issue somehow implied they weren't listening. I don't believe that image of Logos should be left unchallenged unless the logic behind the image is impeccable.
image of Logos
This is not about Logos image.. a number of times I have said I trust them more than any other software company,but I'll never give them free reign to do whatever they like on my computer. It's about a single issue that is important that Logos has chosen not to continue a feature that was in L3, be it a library management feature, that is significant to one group of users and not significant to another group of users.
The secondary issue I highlighted is they only way that I can make any sense of Logos continuing to take their current stand i.e. is that they are in full swing marching towards a full cloud computing system with no desktop option. If that is their longer term goal, it would make sense they are going to choose to not listen to their customers, on an issue that is regular brought up on the forums and its often a new of less regular forum user raising the issue. Regulars either are in a position where its not important to them or they do think the issue has merit but given up on Logos ever listening to them about the issue. If this was the situation, cloud computing is already the here and now for them, and providing download information options to customers for a desktop application is so yesterday.
If this is not the case (and its only my way to try and reconcile the situation) then as a customer I just don't get why they don't see it important to re-instate a feature that was in L3, that was simple yet informative to the customer about what was going to be download and what the download would cost the customer in data.
For some this we still live in countries where we have to seriously consider this last point. In my country one of the issues was debate about a National Broadband network and whether it should focus on Fibre or Wireless. And given we ended up with a minority government I don't see that debate resolving itself and moving forward with a true National Broadband network any time soon. Hence for me it is very easy to move from the issue of basic information being provided before a download take's place to the implications of what if I have no local application and have to do all this on the web. If I clouded the issue with this point then I apologise but my orignal thoughts still stands (which i think you do get)
1) and 2) are missing features from L3
and 3) given we can't do selective downloads like L3 (I appreciate and respect the why so not questioning it) would be really nice and should be there but I'm willing to see that at an even later date..
I am no asking for selective download of components of the download simply 1: this exactly what is about to be download 2. this is size of the download 3. do you wan to proceed now or have us remind you in 24hrs etc
If an SQLite viewer can expose the information for 1. and 2. then it seems we can be told what is happening even if there is no control as per 3; but the control could be built around Automatically Download Updates = NO. This debate has been ongoing for over 12 months!
I am not asking for selective download of components of the download simply 1: this exactly what is about to be download 2. this is size of the download 3. do you want to proceed now or have us remind you in 24hrs etc
I am not asking for selective download of components of the download simply
3. do you want to proceed now or have us remind you in 24hrs etc
This I have no problems with. It is a reasonable request that deserves to be evaluated and prioritized.
Absolutely. That in essence is what I do manually now, but there's no question in my mind that it should be default behaviour.
