L4 and Precept (Inductive) Bible Studies.

John Norman said:

Sharon said:

Hi Norman,

 

Is there a video lying around somewhere that would help everyone with how you did this?

 

Thanks!

 

 

No idea...   I never got around to making videos or writing a tutorial on creating markups in detail.    The interface in Logos 4 is different, but the same options are still available, and it looks like a few new ones have been added...   If I have some free time, will try recording a quick video, but kinda busy over Easter...  God bless...

Okay, here is a Flash based tutorial I did in WINK: http://cid-2710bca0d4d5e0f5.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Public/Logos4/highlighting.swf

You will need to download it and run it locally from IE as I don't have a good spot to host it for streaming (yet?) 

Karen Collins said:

This is Karen Jensen Collins--our family owns the copyright to the Jensen book that Bill Cook referenced above

It was delightful to see your posting here, Karen. I started learning inductive Bible study from Robert Traina. I believe he also taught your dad? Your dad's book has been a good tool through the years, one I've recommended to others.

I haven't looked at the PDF version as yet, but it's not difficult to convert a PDF into Kindle format to be published through the Amazon Kindle site. And getting it into Logos would be good as well. We need to keep that material in circulation.

Another website for the inductive approach is www.thewordisout.org. Dr. Alan Meenan, another of Dr. Traina's students, is the resource person there. And note Morris Proctor's Camp Logos seminars at www.mpseminars.com. Periodically he offers one focused on inductive Bible study.

David Housholder

John,

I've "massaged" the location of the movie in question...

http://www.stilltruth.com/blog/normanjd/highlighting-tutorial-video

Note that on the site hierarchy it is actually a sub page of the link John posted.

MJ. Smith said:

Sharon said:

The reason I do not is simply this--I don't believe I can possibly do, with Logos, what I can do with my hands and eyes, focusing just on the Word alone for that first step.  I draw arrows all over, circle things, etc. that just can't be done with a program.  Plus, you cannot just let Logos find every reference to a certain word.  It's a program (magnificent, to be sure) but it can't deliberate over a dilemma and make a Spirit led choice like I can (like differentiating which servant in Isaiah should be Jesus or Israel, or whether it is referring to both, not to mention all the pronouns and possible synonyms!)

I'm also curious about this statement. Mind you, I only have an overview understanding of Arthur's work. But with the combination of the diagramming and highlighting tools, what does the Precept model do that can't be done in Logos? And when evaluating the reference list, why don't you find Logos conducive to Spirit-led discernment? I'm curious because your comments make me think that I may be misunderstanding Precept Bible study - and Bible study methods and techniques fascinate me.

I've been popping in and out of the forums as I have had access to a computer.  Mine has been in the hospital and it looks terminal. [W] I have access right now and thought I'd look at your question again.  The trail is probably rather cold to both of us by now, (sorry about that) but I told you I would answer and I thought I'd give it a shot while I could get online.

In reference to the question about the diagramming and highlighting tools - for one thing, my arrows are likely to span several pages and connect in many places with other arrows and circles - Logos can't do that as far as I know.  I also mark much more than just key words and phrases.  I guess you could say that Logos can't speak my Bible marking language, because, in essence that is what I do when marking.  I am using those markings essentially as another language, which Logos just does not speak.  :-)  And amazingly, I can look at my Bible and recognize the markings as expressed meaning (logos), not simply marking.

As far as being Spirit led on making lists - to use the Isaiah example already given, when I am reading through the text during the first part of the process (which takes months) I start to see things that were unnoticed by me during the first few readings.  I become more and more familiar with the text.  I start to notice all the different references to the One.

In the initial stages of studying, I would not be able to discern all of these, perhaps even most of them.  But as other pieces of the Isaiah puzzle fall into place during my repeated observational/interrogatory readings, I am more and more able to discern whether the world arm should be Arm or arm, whether servant is Servant or servant, Branch or branch, One or one, etc.

I could tell Logos to mark all those for me in the first place, but that would be counterproductive and even dangerous.  I would still have to go back and put each one in its context before I could make an accurate conclusion.  The reality is that the context for each of them is not just a few verses surrounding them, not just the chapter they are in, nor is it even a large segment of the book of Isaiah.  The context of each word in Isaiah is the entire book of Isaiah because that is the environment in which each of them dwell.  (And of course, that is not even mentioning the book of Isaiah's larger environment.)

To use a very simple example.  If you came to my house you would notice many things, but you would notice more things the longer you stayed.  And you would notice more things the more often you came to my house.  And you would notice more things the less obstructed by distractions during each visit.  You would notice many things if I pointed them out to you, as well.  Now I could give you a list of things to notice, and you would be able to find them all, with time.  But you would not really know their neighborhood (context) if you noticed them as part of a list rather than as a part of the environment in which they dwelt.  The reason being is that the list needs to come from doing an overview, not just a gathering of words.

You could take my list of things for you to notice and find the paper clip that is in the bookshelf - but you wouldn't know the meaning of the paper clip unless the context defined it for you.  You could guess, reason, speculate, even do word studies on paper clips and bookcases, read commentaries on paper clips and bookcases, ask others about it, but you wouldn't know unless you studied my bookcase and my paper clip themselves.  You would need to spend time with my paper clip and my bookcase in order to discover the truth for yourself.  You would need to spend time in the room where my paper clip and my bookcase were.  You would need to notice other things in the room, other chairs for example.  You would need to know who lived in my house.  You could never learn what the paper was doing in the bookcase unless you learned all those things and others - by first-hand observation.  If Logos made a list for you that included the word paper clip and all references to paper clip, especially those that were in the vicinity of a bookcase, you still would not be able to discern the meaning.  I can say that because I know the meaning.  It is obscure.  And no list in the world is going to reveal it.  Only careful, dogged, personal investigative observation of the paper clip and its environment will do that. 

What I have described thus far is only one very small piece of the process of inductive study (and very lightly described and clumbsily discussed at that).  The work of the Holy Spirit is what makes my work of observation explode into supernatural understanding and knowledge.  As I am searching the Word of God in Isaiah, listening, praying, diligently seeking, He leads me into Truth.  He teaches me.  He wrote the book and He wants me to hear and understand what He has said and is saying to me.

It is during the beginning of this wonderful blessing of the method that my arrows, circles, boxes, markings, colorings begin to fill the pages with His message.  That's because He is saying, "Child, do you see this?  Look here, Child, and notice this particular word.  Have you seen it before?  Yes, you have. Where have you seen it?  Why do you think I said it before?  Why do you think I am saying it again?  Child, the reason is this...."  And then He tells me, shows me, teaches me.  Sometimes it is a deep spiritual truth, sometimes it is a small little glorious nugget that builds my faith in Who He is and what He has said.  And sometimes it is something so elementary that I can't believe I didn't see it myself - and then I am once again reminded that it is He Who gives knowledge and understanding to men - and no one else.  And I guarantee you that what God has taught me Himself, I understand and I remember.  He writes it on my heart, the way I write it in my Bible.  My responsibility is to respond rightly to each and every thing He shows me - forever!

Accurate interpretation flows out of diligent observation and righteous application begins the moment the observation touches understanding.

Oh, MJ, this seems to me to be a very impotent rendering of the answer to your questions.  They are good questions.  I pray God will take my words, straighten them out, and cause you to catch a glimpse of what a great tool He has given the world through those who have honed the art of inductive study for the rest of us.  There is one needful thing, Jesus said--sitting at His feet and listening to Him.  Biblical listening is "hearing and doing"--belief.  It comes through His Word.  He wrote His Book to us using words and we must listen to those words (none other) as closely and intently as we can.  Then we must respond rightly to them.

Thanks for listening.  Sorry again for being so tardy in my response.

Sharon

Sharon said:

What I have described thus far is only one very small piece of the process of inductive study (and very lightly described and clumbsily discussed at that).  The work of the Holy Spirit is what makes my work of observation explode into supernatural understanding and knowledge.  As I am searching the Word of God in Isaiah, listening, praying, diligently seeking, He leads me into Truth.  He teaches me.  He wrote the book and He wants me to hear and understand what He has said and is saying to me.

Sharon, your description of the process is excellent even inspired, not light or clumbsily.  Thanks for taking the time to share it.  [:D]

Joan Korte said:

Sharon, please mention where you work in your original language/lexica studies.  D.A. Carson on Exegetical Fallacies is a great read and does destroy eisegesis along with illegitimate totality transfer-a very common error.  (You know, my chosen hermeneutics has a more pneumatic thrust.   Lately discovered).  And could you mention where you work in your commentaries?  Yes, that would be great.   I think if someone were to read this thread as is (and maybe I am way wrong) they might wonder why we have such large, fantastic libraries.  Happy Spring!

Here is a quick little skeletal outline of the pattern of some of the steps:  (not all inclusive)

Overview - Observing the text as a whole, over and over again, noting key repeated words or phrases, perhaps on a notecard.

From the overview, segments are discovered.  (i.e. Romans 1:1 - 3:20; 3:21 - 5:21; 6-8; 9-11; 12-16) Each one of these segments now becomes a "whole".  (i.e. Romans 1:1-3:20).  There is not always one right way to divide a book.  Some books are easier than others to discern and observation is the tool to use - not anything externally yet.  These segments each have a theme and each of their themes relates to the theme of the entire book.  Simply put, Romans is about the Gospel of God, salvation.  Each of the segments must belong part and parcel to the theme of the entire book.  (Romans 1:1-3:20 - the need for salvation; Romans 3:21-5:21 - the way of salvation; Romans 6-8 - the life of salvation; Romans 9-11 - the Godward aspect of salvation; Romans 12-16 - the service of salvation)

Beginning witht the first segment (Romans 1:1-3:20) - treat it as a "whole" and do another overview on it, discovering segments within the segment through the identification of key words and phrases particular to the segment in view.  Each part must ultimately reflect the theme of their segment and the theme of the whole book.

1.  From:  Paul  2.  Parenthetical insert about the Gospel  3.  To:  All who are beloved of God in Rome  4.  Prayer of thankfulness for the faith of the beloved in Rome  5.  Paul's obligation to preach the Gospel to the Gentiles  6.  God has made Himself evident in each person-each person without excuse!  7.  God gave them over to impurity  8.  God have them over to degrading passions  9.  God gave them over to a depraved mind.

Then ask reasoning questions  concerning how this section relates to the segment it is in, remembering of course, how the segment relates to the whole of the book.

Do likewise with the rest of the segments throughout the book of Romans. (Romans 3:21-5:21; 6-8; 9-11; 12-16)

Still no commentaries or word studies, but many questions  will be arising from the overview process of observation.  Information regarding author, recipient, theme, purpose, other characters, historical context, etc. are being discovered internally and noted.

Once the overview is completed, the overall structure of the book is determined by putting the parts back into the whole.

Now once again, start with the first segment (treated as a whole) (Romans 1:1 - 3:20) and take the first section (Romans 1:1) of the first segment and treat it as a whole.  The first section of the first segment might be a paragraph or larger.  Take this section and investigate it thoroughly, treating it as a whole.  Interogate the section the same way you did with the entire book, its segments, and now sections of each segment.  Break it into parts as you did with the previous parts.  The pattern will be "whole-part-whole" right down to the parsing of a verb.  But notice the pattern does not stay at the part level.  Each part must be returned, along with its companion parts, to the whole from which it was derived.  And that whole must be returned, along with its companion wholes to the whole from which they were taken.  Until the entire book is put back together.

What are the parts of of the first section (Romans 1:1) of the first segment (Romans 1:1-3:20)?  You find out by asking it questions, the same way you have been observing since the beginning of studying Romans.  You would ask questions like:  "Who wrote the book of Romans?  Who is Paul?  What three things does Paul say about himself?  Who is Paul's master?  How did Paul come to be an apostle?  For what one thing is Paul set apart?  Who has sent the gospel?"  The answers must come from the text itself.  At this stage you must learn to ask the text only questions that it can answer.

At this point your smallest section has become a whole and guess what you do?  Yep!  You break it down into parts, and those parts are words and phrases.  This is when your lexical aids come in and you can do all the word studies you want to your heart's delight.  This rule must be followed though, because word studies can turn into gopher trails that take you in a direction away from your context:  When you dig down deeper into a word study, you MUST come back up through the same hole you went down into.  You must keep your word study in context to the passage you are studying.  A word study will never contradict the clear meaning of a passage as revealed by its context.  It can colorize it, it can clarify it, it can even spice it up, but it can't change it or contradict it.  Context rules-period.

As the whole part whole pattern continues, you can still break it down a little further, and that would be to say, parse a verb.  The word itself becomes a whole and you examine its parts - mood, voice, tense.  But again, they must all be put back into their proper and original place in the context.

Before you leave a section in a segment (in this case Romans 1:1), you finally are at the point where commentaries are needed.  Go to as many as possible and check out what the authors have to say.  Line them up with the Word, and let them line you up with the Word.  This is important - do not line yourself up to them, but use them to line yourself up with the Word.  Does that make sense?

Follow the simple pattern throughout each and every segment, section, passage, phrase, word, and part of a word, continually putting each part back into its place.  There are many other parts to inductive study, of course. This is just an attempt to show at which point lexical aids and commentaries are used.   I didn't even mention cross-referencing, for example.  Or the absolute necessity that you preface your study with prayer and continue throughout.  The Holy Spirit's part is a unmovable given in all of this - even to knowing which book He wants you to study (i.e. which book He wants to teach you).  All the other steps are interwoven into the repeated pattern of whole-part-whole.

If I had to choose between Logos and my Bible, I would choose my Bible hands down without hesitating a nano-second, (even knowing there are a plethora of Bibles in the Logos software.)  Those large, fantastic libraries we have are greatly helpful, but to be honest, they are not necessary.  His Word is sufficient.

I was referred to this thread, yesterday and I'm glad I followed up! [:D] This is proving to be a treasure trove of insight.

Let's see, if I'm understanding the Observation Phase correctly. 

1. Pray and ask the Holy Spirit to open my eyes to what is in each chapter or book.
2. Open up a Bible and read.
3. As I read, ask question of both the text of Scripture and the Holy Spirit. (the 5 W's & H)
4. Highlight texts, as needed and jot down notes
5. Repeat the above an x # of times.

I had thought I was supposed to use commentaries when doing this.  Hence, I have a saved layout with a bunch of commentaries in one resource pane and my NASB in a seperate resource pane.  Due to vision impairment, I use Logos 4 to help with reading my Bible, how can I best set up to do the Observation phase correctly?

Nicholas B Brindisi said:

I had thought I was supposed to use commentaries when doing this. 

No commentaries during observation phase.  Its all about you reading, asking questions of the text and making notes on you see.  Later on you might use a commentary to help you answer some of your questions that you identify during this phase.

You can also check out Morris Proctor's "Inductive Bible Study with Logos Bible Software". He gives you at least three ways to set your Logos program up to study inductive style.  It's been very helpful to me.

Yes, but I have to find them first, as it has been awhile.  [:)]  They are based on Stuart and Fee-OT and NT Exegesis books. 

Mind maps are a headache to me.  I returned the i-mind map software that I had because it wouldn't really show it right on power point.  Plus you had to create your presentation on Large format and it was a pain in the neck doing that.  So I just try to do "hand written" mind maps when I can instead of software one.  I wish I had a decent software for mind mapping but they're all too expensive.

Sharon said:

My experience has been that it is far more than "many", but rather most, and a very bloated mos,t at that, who only "study" the Bible through a book "about" the Bible.

I am glad this thread was bumped. What Sharon said is so true. There is even an active thread titled "search that excludes scripture?"

Now, I'm sure there may be a logical reason for wanting to search in that way. But the concept makes me tremble.