Tired of waiting for the NIV on iPhone

The NIV was my first Bible I purchased. Its the one I mostly read, and the one I tend to remember verses from.

I hope I will like the NIV-2011 next year. I also hope we continue to have NIV-Classic and TNIV in Logos, once we get the new one.

(I did always wonder about all the things in the NIV footnotes: "Some manuscripts have ..." etc, and now with Logos, I can find out about them if I wish.)

I dont currently have an iThing (iPhone or iPad), but if/when I do, I will want NIV if at all possible.

Alan Charles Gielczyk said:

The NIV is so popular because Zondervan bought shelf space at the front of all Christian book stores not because it is a good translation. It is not horrible, but it is by no means very good.

Really? Maybe--but that would have been easy when it came out in 1978--we didn't have the glut of translations then that we have today.

I thought it was popular because it was the most modern translation available throughout most of the 1980s.   It seemed like the selection in bookstores was NIV, NASB, RSV, and KJV.  The NRSV didn't come out until 1989, leaving the NIV the honor of being the most recent translation for over a decade.  That's a long time to gain a foothold, and Zondervan probably didn't need to that spend much to get bookstores to display a new product considering there wasn't much competition.  People were hungry then for a translation that didn't use archaic pronouns, which the other major translations were still using.

Alan Charles Gielczyk said:

The NIV is so popular because Zondervan bought shelf space at the front of all Christian book stores not because it is a good translation. It is not horrible, but it is by no means very good.

While it may be true that Zondervan made that business decision as a marketing approach - and I certainly disagree with many of their business decisions - the truth is the absence of any real competition is the real reason. Today and for a number of years we have a variety of choices like the ESV or NKJV, but for years (as Todd points out) there were no other translations that credibly struck a balance between readability and accuracy. Whatever one thinks of how well this was accomplished, one must give credit to the translators for creating something that was very much needed. I remember as a child being incredibly frustrated memorizing scripture - Who talked like that anyways? I for one found the NIV to be a very much welcomed change and it certainly aided in growing my love for scripture. It was the only choice for so long that I still use if for regular reading even though I prefer other translations for study... and I know many who came to Christ or grew up in the time period referenced by Todd, for whom the same is true... It was the groundbreaking nature of the translators work that gave them the head start which now gives them the role of "incumbent". 

To Chris' original post; I too am getting tired of waiting... and saying I trust Bob and the folks will get this done right is starting to ring hollow

Bobby Terhune said:

Andrew,

Logos is at Zondervan's mercy, if it was left up to Logos it would already be available. This delay is in no way Logos faulf. Bob P said some publishers think of different platforms as additional revenue streams for them. Logos is trying to break new ground with a pay once for "all" platforms we own. I am thankful that we now have 5,400 books available on the iphone/ipad, am I'm sure more are coming soon.

I know it's not their fault, and I don't really mean it to sound like I'm blaming the Logos folks, but it's hard to be patient sometimes  

I am certain this is a NIV/Zondervan issue. Furthermore, Logos is not likely going to win Zondervan's support by bad mouthing them in the forums.

If you remember back 6-8 years ago we used to have a separate CD and registration code for the NIV (while all the other translations were included in one of the 4-8 cds included with a Logos Base Package). I am guessing that Logos is still dealing with this mentality with the NIV/ Zondervan group.

Zondervan only has rights to sell the NIV in North America.  It's published elsewhere by Biblica (formerly International Bible Society), who holds the actual copyrights.

I suspect it is this arrangement that makes licensing the NIV for new media more difficult.  What's odd is that Laridian also has a "buy once, use anywhere" license for their resources too, and they don't seem to have had the problems Logos has.  The difference is probably "the cloud".

If the problem is that they want us to pay for the license a second time, then why can't Logos just give us that option?  

I for one would gladly pay to have it on my iphone.  At the very least Logos could give us that option instead of doing nothing.  

I, too, have stopped using Logos' app for this same reason.  If I can't use the Bibles (NIV, NVI) that I use on a daily basis, why should I bother using it? 

Even though it seems like the majority of the problem is with Zondervan.  It would seem like Logos isn't really doing anything about providing us the customers with an alternative, even if it means charging us a second time for the digital rights.  At this point I'm sure I'm not the only one who would rather pay up than wait for a day that is likely never going to come (Zondervan allowing the NIV, NVI to be shown on our I-devices.)  

Except there isn't nearly the demand for the other products, so the idea that other companies will be able to get a lot of money by withholding their licenses doesn't hold a lot of water in my mind.   NIV is the most popular Bible in the US, which gives it a tremendous amount of leverage.  

I hate how Zondervan is playing hard ball, but when you are a "Bible Software" company, it would sure seem be in the best interest of that company to allow their users to have access to the most popular Bible translation.  

I'm not going to compromise which Bible I use because of my Bible Software.  If my BIble Software program can't offer what I need, I'll look elsewhere for software that can meet my needs.

Kevin A. Purcell said:

The fact that NIV always seems to be the most restricted Bible translation is telling. Every Bible software  company that has trouble getting modern translations seem to have problems getting NIV most. Others like NASB, ESV, NRSV, HCSB seem to come much quicker. I've reviewed and used almost every Bible program on the PC side of things and find this the most restricted.

I worked in Christian publishing for over 2 decades. Publishers always said that the Lockman Foundation (NASB/Amplified) was the most difficult Bible company to deal with. I think that it was more because they were more ministry "minded" and less "business" minded. Remember the recent announcement of the old NASB in Logos format and the high price that it asked?

Edwin Bowden said:

Kevin A. Purcell said:

The fact that NIV always seems to be the most restricted Bible translation is telling. Every Bible software  company that has trouble getting modern translations seem to have problems getting NIV most. Others like NASB, ESV, NRSV, HCSB seem to come much quicker. I've reviewed and used almost every Bible program on the PC side of things and find this the most restricted.

I worked in Christian publishing for over 2 decades. Publishers always said that the Lockman Foundation (NASB/Amplified) was the most difficult Bible company to deal with. I think that it was more because they were more ministry "minded" and less "business" minded. Remember the recent announcement of the old NASB in Logos format and the high price that it asked?

I speak only as an outside observer and someone uses nearly every Bible software product produced for the Windows platform and the Internet. The NASB is everywhere. Even the free applications/sites, if they have a selection of add-on translations that can be paid for, will have the NASB but only a few have the NIV. When asking the developer why, the answers I've gotten have always been that Lockman is happy to sell the NASB but Zondervan is very picky about who they will sell it to. That is my reasoning for my opinion.

I took care of the problem by buying the Tecarta app NIV Bible for $5.   Now I can use my iPad in Sunday School.  Logos for serious work, NIV to match what we have our 3rd graders read.

Philip, I agree if I did not have my ESV I would not be happy, but at the same time, I would not want to pay a second time to logos for the opportunity to have it... instead I would get it from a different app.  Yes I would be paying for it a second time, but the publisher would not be seeing that way.  I guess I was taught to stand on principles for the greater good.  What really needs to happen is to get  David Cook to understand that we will not purchase from their platform when we already have a far superior platform in Logos.

Philip, I am afraid that this is one that although we both want the same thing... the NIV on the Iphone, that we will have  to agree to disagree on the better way to make it happen.  your belief is to get it on there no matter the cost, my belief is to make it as affordable as possible so that more can can afford to have it.  I doubt we will ever agree on this until if has actually made it over to iphone format.

Philip Gurgel said:

It would appear the only way the NIV does appear on the LOGOS app would be if money were paid to Zondervon for the digital license. 

Do we really know that? Have either Logos or Zondervan spoken anywhere to this issue, or is all this speculation? I know a few folks at Zondervan, and I also know from personal experience that their legal department does NOTHING quickly. Normally, any contract with writers alone takes months to see print, long after initial agreements are made.

What is your favorite translation?

I heard an interview with Francis Schaeffer's son Frank the other day. He was lamenting on the over commercialization of Christianity. One of his main points was that Rupert Murdoch made more money off of Zondervan last year, then he did from Fox.

Knowing this, I can't help but think that when it comes to a popular Zondervan resource, one is never likely to see the word "free" in it's description...

Mark Papierski said:

The transition to all my products (including the NIV) with ***** went very well yesterday and it’s great to have all my offline bibles on one platform. Your product line at Logos has great potential, but folks are definitely going to migrate towards *****  if you and Zondervan don’t reach an agreement soon. I was so impressed with their service and iPod Touch functionality that I purchased an additional $68 in new software.

Question: Did ***** manage to get an Exclusive where it would be the ONLY supplier for mobile devises?  [i.e. locking out all of the competition]

That product seems to sell many different versions - one for this and one for that other - Do you get the rights to your "library" on all platforms?

or do you have to buy the NIV, ESV, and others for each platform under the ***** label?

Logos wants to allow it on ALL platforms and the ***** website implies you get to use in on one and only one for the fee. [to order you need to tell them the platform to send you]  [[You have not selected a handheld device.- please click here to select one.]]

I'm trying to figure out what deal a certain Florida based Mac software company worked out with Zondervan to allow the NIV to be available to users on both the Mac and iOS.

Michael Childs said:

MJD said:

Your statement of not wanting to pay for it twice is simply not accurate.

MJD,

You, me, and most all of us are speculating without many facts on all this.  However I still believe that if we pay twice to use resources on both L4 and the iPhone / iPad app, we will soon be paying twice for all resources.  That is the way business works in the real world.

Whatever else may or may not be accurate, that is, in my opinion.

One thing I would bet.  I would bet that if this was as simple to fix as most posts here assume it is, Bob and the Logos leadership would not need advice from a public forum to tell them to fix it.  They know that people want the NIV, and they want to provide the resources their customers want.  So I assume there is a good reason the NIV is not on the iPhone / iPad app.  That would be my bet for sure.

Michael,

I am not speculating... I have negotiated these types of deals. 

Zondervan is in the business to license their works.  If Logos (at the time of the original contract)wanted the NIV to be included in the agreement they should have entered into a license agreement that allowed and included it usage on PDA's.

Why do Logos users have access to other Zondervan titles on thier PDA's?  They do because they negotiated those usage rights into the contract.  Do you think Logos paid twice for those books?  PLEASE THINK.

I originally purchased the NIV and other resources for my Palm PDA.  Over five years later, I purchased an iPod Touch and Olivetree allowed me to download all the resources in the different format.  The Olivetree app has a lot more features - absolutely no comparison!

I'd love to have NIV84 and NIRV in logos  mobile app also.  I am not going to speculate on it all...I don't believe it would be good to have the option to pay forr a separate license for mobile platform.  Neither am I going to pay for it in another mobile app.  For now if I want either of these translations mobile I simply log into biblia.com and I can read them from there...the reader mode is Safari is great when I just want to read these translations.  The only downside is I can access them offline. But since I use NASB95 and ESV for study purposes not a major sticking point.

The wait is over... be tired  no longer