Logos closes reseller channels

There are some things I just don't understand about business.  This is one of them. 

What does this mean for selling Logos at the local bookstore?  It sounds like that's over.

I just don't get it.  [:^)]

Mark A. Smith said:

Logos Bible Software has elected to transition out of ALL
distribution and reseller relationships!

I'm guessing, by the sound of this, that Logos is just moving their retail distribution to a separate company. Perhaps even a spin-off company wholly owned by Logos.

Just a guess...

Lifeway as not had a base package on shelf for some time.

I'm not sure whether I should share this before Halloween, but can't you see? Isn't it obvious? First, Zondervan joins in. Then, resellers are eliminated. It's all moving toward the one-worldwide-Bible-software company. And soon we will be wearing the software in our hands through iphone. WATCH OUT! BEWARE of the mark! (evil laughter)...

Disclaimer: this is a joke. this is a joke. this is a joke. this is a joke.

I inquired of Rejoice Software about their ability to deliver the upcoming Tyndale Commentary and received the following reply:

Hi Richard



Yes, the announcement only pertains to products published by Logos. In this instance, the Tyndale set is being published by InterVarsity Press. We haven't sold any Logos-published products in several years. The Libronix products that we carry are being made available by the print publishers who have decided to license the Libronix technology, and then produce their own product. For example, Baker Book House publishes their own material in Libronix format, and they have produced several products that we carry: Sproul, Geisler, Baker NT Commentary, Baker Exegetical, and these products are completely unrelated to any decisions that Logos, the company, makes regarding their own published materials. We stopped offering Logos published materials about 3 years ago. But we have continued to make Libronix products available from Baker Book House, and in this case, IVP (as well as many others, like AMG's Bible Essentials), and will continue to offer IVP products like The Essential IVP Ref. Collection, Bible Speaks Today, etc.



I hope this helps. Let me know if you have any other questions.



Thanks,



Michael White

Thomas Black said:

Oh well then, nothing to see.  Move along.

You mean now I have to come up with something else to complain about? that stinks.

This may be 'not a big deal' to purchasers in the US and Canada, but it would be a big deal to us in (places like) Australia, who depend on resellers (there are really only three in Australia). The US postage on a base package would be pretty prohibitive, and once you get to AU$1,000 we have to pay import duties. I'd suggest that, if that happened, it would really mean Logos exiting the Australian market.

Colin

How about product like "Bible Speaks Today" and "Essential IVP Reference Collection", and all the other 3rd party product that use Libronix?

Kenneth Shawver said:

Philippians 2:14

14 Do all things ^zwithout ⁴complaining and ^adisputing,

Who's complaining???

and here all this time I thought that verse said " Do all things without champagne and dissipation" [:D]

David Buckham said:

To my knowledge Logos still has the Ambassadors program that offers the software at a 25% discount.    Maybe this means the Ambassadors are about to have some new venues of sales opened up to them.

all about Christ,

David

Although I have purchased a couple of add-ons to Logos through third-party resellers due to pricing, there is another issue to this change in operations.  Given that the longevity of our software depends upon the long-term success of Logos, how is Logos going to market its base products?  It was radio marketing for Illumina software that drove me into my local Christian bookstore to check out the available software.  After evaluation of the options, I chose Logos... but had Logos not been in that bookstore, I would now be using a different software package.  Now, I may be one of a small minority (I usually am), but it would be interesting to know what percentage of sales of Logos base packages are through 1) Direct sales (salesforce/internet), 2) Resellers, 3) Ambassador program/referrals, 4) Seminaries/Bible colleges, etc.  It may be that this decision impacts only a small percentage of sales...

Mike

Bob Pritchett said:

The decision was based on a careful analysis of our sales; you can be assured that we didn't turn off any channel that was doing significant business.

Hi Bob. I can absolutely understand that for North America. I'm hoping that there will still be some retail presence in Australia, otherwise it will effectively mean you leave our marketplace, which I think would be very sad.

Colin

Bob Pritchett said:

Colin Thornby said:

I'm hoping that there will still be some retail presence in Australia

We examined our international sales and found that direct sales from overseas were dramatically higher than sales through distributors. In the age of the Internet, people communicate directly. (Case in point: You're corresponding with me directly, not our Australian distributor.)

Yes, they do tend to, but I found out about your product through an Australian retailer, not through your website. I'm on here because I own Scholars super duper package, appreciate it and the community that has formed around it. I purchased my base package through an Australian retailer, not through Logos - if it had not been there I would not have bought it, and thus bought into your system. I purchased the upgrades and so on through Logos because they don't need to be physically delivered (generally).

If I'd had to import your software myself, I'd have paid AU$1,775 including import duties and taxes. If I'd bought it in Australia it would have been quite a bit lower (I reckon around AU$1,300).

Obviously it is your decision. All I'd point out is that you can't rely, in other territories, on people getting hold of American Christian magazines and so on, because they don't have wide circulation here. That means your visibility will be poor. There is another thing - Australians are different to Americans, I understand. We have a much smaller 'mail order' culture - it has never been as common here. Australians like to look, feel and experience before they buy, particularly larger purchases. We also like to know someone we can get hold of easily stands behind the product - I know Logos does, is reachable and so on, but others may not until the experience it, which they won't until they buy it and so on.

I absolutely agree with the efficiency of distributing software via the Internet. I'd suggest, though, that if you want to continue to have a share of the market in Australia you need to have some sort of strategy to do it. However - you may be choosing to concentrate on North America, and that is a valid choice. I don't know what your sales figures are. You might also be choosing to focus on 'power users' who would tend to do research and then purchase happily this way. Again - a valid choice.

I regularly recommend your products and show people how to use them (we don't have the benefit of Camp Logos here), and it will be sad if people can't buy them easily.

MJ. Smith said:

Pastor Jerry Bush said:

This only bothers me because it reduces competition, and that usually leads to higher prices.

Come on all you half-emptiers; it means we don't have to spend our time shopping around for the best price.

I don't buy much from other retailers (once, maybe twice), but it kind of reminds me of the old Tennesee Ernie Ford song popular in the late 50's "I owe my soul to the company store" -- oh well, I already do.  [H]

Philip Spitzer said:

Kenneth Shawver said:

Philippians 2:14

 

14 Do all things ^zwithout ⁴complaining and ^adisputing,

Who's complaining???

and here all this time I thought that verse said " Do all things without champagne and dissipation" 

I'll drink to that.

Bob,  you make the point about the internet, and its effects on business. And though I agree with the communications piece, I strongly disagree with the Affiliate Program being shut down.

If you don't have enough margin in your products to allow affiliates to help you market, and process those affiliate payouts, your pricing model must be messed up. (contrary e.g. - Amazon's success)

You may have had limited success in the past, but Christian efforts are often years behind the secular world. I think Logos would be surprised how many sales they would receive of Logos Software, or even subscriptions to Bible Study Magazine, in the same way many "secular" companies are experiencing now.

I also think Logos should employ the fixed pricing model (like Apple, etc.) so that affiliates or resellers all sell the products at the same price, but you simply share the revenue with those helping you sell the product.

Trying to sell your product alone is a losing proposition. Show me one successful company that doesn't sell their product through resellers of some kind.

Thanks for the time.

Until We're All Home,

Walter

I am not trying to speak to sales outside the US... I am talking about US Sales. I see no good reason to NOT use resellers and to NOT have an Affiliate program in the United States, if you force pricing to be the same for all resellers and Affiliates. Living without these is a very limited vision.

Michael Aubrey said:

WalterJohnson said:

I am not trying to speak to sales outside the US... I am talking about US Sales. I see no good reason to NOT use resellers and to NOT have an Affiliate program in the United States, if you force pricing to be the same for all resellers and Affiliates. Living without these is a very limited vision.

Here's good reason not to use them: Direct from Dell: Strategies that Revolutionized an Industry (Collins Business Essentials). You don't find Dell computers at reseller locations.

That book is dated. See: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Dell-i17R-2084-OBK/14335606

[:D]

WalterJohnson said:

I could run the affiliate program myself and bring in over a million in revenue in the next year or two.

A million is small change in the current picture. I do not know if Bob will release sales figures at the end of the year but I am confident this is by far the best year Logos has ever had. Due in part to direct sales.

WalterJohnson said:

I am not trying to speak to sales outside the US... I am talking about US Sales.

The current marketing plan makes even more sense in the United States. (We will ignore the fact Bob mentioned about software loss, aka "theft", from retailers. Very common in the USA.)

My previous post mentions a balance among four different endeavors: the Ambassadors Program, online sales, regional representatives and seminars. All of these have already been implemented in the USA. The admonition to "not muzzle the ox whilst he is treading the grain" did not mandate keeping an ox just to feed him, if you have no use for the ox. Logos exists to produce and sell Bible software. By cutting out retailers Logos can have tighter control on quality, service and the company's reputation. I was not happy to see the boxes disappear from the shelves but I believe it has been for the best, all things considered.

WalterJohnson said:

It would have many, many people out their advertising the same price, but receiving a commission for spreading the word about the software...

We already have that without high commissions. So change the name from Ambassador to Affiliate if it motivates you more. Logos has set the selling price and the commissions they are willing to pay. Word of mouth and general exposure will ensure exponential growth in sales. The ever expanding library of resources will garner new users. There are many who will proselytize without any greater financial incentive than is currently being offered. I just want my family and friends to know about this good thing (Logos) I have discovered.

Bob Pritchett did not accidentally pilot the Logos company into great success. He has shown he has the talent to make necessary adjustments along the way to succeed. If a different marketing model is needed, Bob, Dale & Dan will be right on it.

Do a little experiment with the search engines. See how many hits you get with differenty worded searches about Logos Bible software. This company has no peers.

WalterJohnson said:

Then cut out retailers... but an Affiliate program would be much better...

If you want to sell Logos software, why not just apply for a job? http://www.logos.com/jobs

WalterJohnson said:

Chris... you are missing the point, or you're just being sarcastic, which is the unfortunate standard Christian response to a debate or discussion that involves conflict of any kind.

I don't think Chris was being sarcastic in his post but I will leave it to him to clarify his intent. If you really believe sarcasm is the standard Christian response you have been missing a lot of honest, needed advice in life.  I promise not to be sarcastic in this post.

WalterJohnson said:

Logos is a great company, with amazing software, but no one has given me a good reason NOT to run an affiliate program.

Yes, all this is true. And Logos got to this point without an affiliate program. Here is a GOOD reason not to start that now. Bob Pritchett (and a few others) invested years of hard work to build Logos into the great company you admire. Bob even wrote a book where he shares valuable lessons he has learned along the way.

"Fire Someone Today: And Other Surprising Tactics for Making Your Business a Success" http://www.logos.com/products/details/3794 .

Chapter 10 of the book is titled "Profit Is Why You Are in Business." The Logos Corporation went through an Initial Public Offering that Bob reversed at the last moment. You'd have to agree an IPO brings in significantly more cash into the company than an "affiliate" program. By bailing out of the IPO (at no small cost) Bob probably saved his company.

WalterJohnson said:

  Bloggers would use it, churches would use it, denominational entities would use it, podcasters would use it... etc...I would love to be a part of a Logos affiliate program, and I think it could and would be successful.

Blogger, churches, seminaries etc...already use Logos. There is a de facto affiliate program in place. It is called satisfied Logos users. They can't seem to quit telling others about Logos. [:D]  Now that "parade day" has arrived and the hard workers start to enjoy the fruits of their labors, why invite everyone else to jump on board?                Oh,  amd I bet you and George DELL goes bankrupt before Logos...   Remember GM? I retired from there

WalterJohnson said:

Chris Roberts said:

If you want to sell Logos software, why not just apply for a job? http://www.logos.com/jobs

Chris... you are missing the point, or you're just being sarcastic

Maybe Chris was being somewhat sarcastic, but he has a point, however rather than directing you to work for the company (in its in-house sales force), he should have pointed to the existing Ambassadors program, which nobody has done for you directly yet: http://www.logos.com/ambassador. See more details here.  See also David Buckham's discussion of his experience as a Logos Ambassador. Is this not pretty much what you're asking for? Or maybe not. Read on...

WalterJohnson said:

no one has given me a good reason NOT to run an affiliate program. Bloggers would use it, churches would use it, denominational entities would use it, podcasters would use it... etc...

Again, this is more along the lines of Amazon's affiliate program, which if that is what you're asking for then indeed, I see no reason not to run it apart from the fact that they don't apparently need to right now. They're raking in the bucks as is, and were until recently overwhelmed with how many new customers they have been getting simply through their own advertising efforts and word-of-mouth. Their customer support call lines were swamped for months and have only recently gotten back to a more normal response time. An affiliate program such as this just for new books would be a wonderful idea and wouldn't add to their support costs at all (or very little, compared to how much extra revenue it would bring in), and I'd be supportive of it. However I don't think it would be a good idea for getting Logos new customers via base packages, for some of the reasons others have mentioned above.

So, please clarify: which is it you're asking for? Something like the Ambassadors program? Something like the Amazon.com affiliate program which gives people a kickback if a click-through from their link ends up getting converted to a sale on Logos's website? And if the latter, are you asking for it to bring in new customers with base packages or just for individual books/collections?

BTW, please be patient with people who take you to task over your suggestion. Consider first that maybe they simply don't understand what you're trying to communicate or misread your attitude; try to say it more clearly and thoroughly and gently rather than responding in kind with another repartee. Civil discourse gets people further towards their goals, and we all become a better online community here for it, and do Logos more good that way, too, by not scaring off prospective customers with the way we treat each other on the forums.