Shutdown the forums...

After sleeping on it .....these are terrible... impossible to navigate and follow a converstation... impossible to know what you have and haven't read.......with a limited number of posts in here I'm alredy lost trying to work this out... too many mouse clicks to move from post to another post... a newsreader you can quickly see with a scroll of the mouse all posts and once and select which post you want to move to while still having focus on a specific thread.. in here you can't even logically follow a conversation/thread....they are not very user friendly at all... no instructions on general usage or what the options really mean... at least newsreaders come with a help file...I really don't understand how anyone thinks these things are easier to use than a newsgroup reader

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Rich DeRuiter

Andrew,

Give it a week, at least. Just to look like you're giving it a fair chance.

Then condemn it.[;)]

George Somsel

While I'm somewhat inclined to agree, I'm not sure I've given it enough of a chance. These aren't the easiest to navigate. Some seem very much to prefer this option so I'll give it a whirl.

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/144#Comment_144

Yeah, first will try him; then we'll hang him.

[:D]

Floyd Johnson

Time for foot in mouth. I agree that the forums are not as useful as the newsgroups; however, there is a work around for part of your concern. You can follow a thread and track with articles you have read by having them forwarded to an email account.

Of course, having done that, there is not way to reply to an article without coming back to the forums and spend time finding the article you want to respond to in that venue. That is not easy to do, though I have not tried searching for a particular post based on its contents. If the contents could be copied from the e-mailed article into the search box and a search completed relatively quickly, it may become less of an issue.

Just brainstorming[I] - I have not tried this as of yet.

Blessings,

Floyd

Ralph Mauch

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/144#Comment_144

Have you all tried the RSS feeds? It's easier to view that then the webpages, and then go the the webpage view from the RSS view. I've not done too much with the RSS feeds, but have seen it's advantage when looking at blogs. Also, it seems to allow you to look at the direct responses to various posts.

I'm not sure, but sometimes some technology seems as though it's a step back... at my job they are insisting we use web based queries, or I should say it's an option to continue the way we use to query until next month when they won't update the database [:D]. You got to love it.[*-)] I'm all for new technology if it' makes life easier, but not the other way around![:'(]

If nothing else, the emotics or what ever you call them, are fun [H].

Blessings,

Ralph

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/157#Comment_157

Have you all tried the RSS feeds? It's easier to view that then the webpages, and then go the the webpage view from the RSS view. I've not done too much with the RSS feeds, but have seen it's advantage when looking at blogs. Also, it seems to allow you to look at the direct responses to various posts.

{snip}

If nothing else, the emotics or what ever you call them, are fun .

Blessings,

Ralph

Yeah, I put the RSS feeds into Thunderbird (had to copy/paste, since clicking on the links didn't work). But It only shows one page of posts and will not allow replies. Maybe I need to try a different RSS reader, but I'm not sure I'm ready for yet another layer between me and a simple conversation.

Emoticons are fun, and a bit silly (IMHO). But they need to get that devil out of the list, else I'll have to cast out the whole idea.

Simon’s Brother

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/157#Comment_157

I have no idea on how to do what you are suggesting Ralph.. I just tried RSS feed in Outlook, IE and Google Reader all I seem to get is the orginal message in the feed and to go any futher actually have to go into the fourm to see any repsones.. It really shouldn't be something where you have to use multiple interfaces and it actaully doesn't solve issue anyway...at least from what I can see...appreciate though you trying to come up with one.

Have you all tried the RSS feeds? It's easier to view that then the webpages, and then go the the webpage view from the RSS view. I've not done too much with the RSS feeds, but have seen it's advantage when looking at blogs. Also, it seems to allow you to look at the direct responses to various posts.

I'm not sure, but sometimes some technology seems as though it's a step back... at my job they are insisting we use web based queries, or I should say it's an option to continue the way we use to query until next month when they won't update the database . You got to love it. I'm all for new technology if it' makes life easier, but not the other way around!

If nothing else, the emotics or what ever you call them, are fun .

Blessings,

Ralph

Simon’s Brother

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/144#Comment_144

A week ? If I wait a week, I mighten be so subdued in my assessment.... I am just totally dumbfounded [*-)] how anyone can think this is 'better' than the newsgroups or that newsgroups are difficult to use...you only need to point the newsgroup reader to the server and your away.. these forums feel like you are in the middle of a room of 1000 people all talking at you at once..[8-)] you have no idea of what anyone is actually saying or who they are actually directing their conversation...[:^)]

Andrew,

Give it a week, at least. Just to look like you're giving it a fair chance.

Then condemn it.

Ralph Mauch

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/167#Comment_167

Well, it's not as good as the New Group was, just trying a few things myself to get use to the feel of things. The tabs are worthwhile, but I'm still waiting myself for someone to convince me that this is better, and why I should love it [:)] I like the newsgroups because of navigation and simplicity... here it seems like a big production to simply ask a question. At least I finally figured out how to use the google spell check... I had a left-side stroke last year so I'm still getting the brain rewired and am lost with out that thing[:)]

Waiting to see how good it can get here[:D], I was going to use that devil icon just to irritate Rich, but naaaa[;)]

Blessings,

Ralph

Donovan R. Palmer

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168#Comment_168

A week ? If I wait a week, I mighten be so subdued in my assessment.... I am just totally dumbfounded how anyone can think this is 'better' than the newsgroups or that newsgroups are difficult to use...you only need to point the newsgroup reader to the server and your away.. these forums feel like you are in the middle of a room of 1000 people all talking at you at once.. you have no idea of what anyone is actually saying or who they are actually directing their conversation...

The trouble is this: I have a friend who owns an ISP and he has told me that less than 1% of his user base uses NNTP (Usenet) News. The reason for this is that most people don't know how to use the internet beyond web browsers and an email client.

So it was inevitable that Logos would eventually set up a web forum because even if the percentage of Logos users who do know how to use NNTP is artificially high compared to other demographic, the reality is that it would be hard to conceive that it would be even more than half the user base. So to reach out to its majority customer base, Logos set up web forums.

So where does that leave us? The trouble is, I agree with you and other current NNTP users. NNTP is argueably the most efficient way to handle forums and for us in the minority who are comfortable in using NNTP, using a web forum is a step backwards. What could have been done (and I might say should have been done), was for Logos to implement a solution that allows for BOTH. There are several solutions out there that allow for users to interact with each other using the web and NNTP simultaneously on the same forums. I believe Lyris is one of these solutions and someone on here mentioned in another thread there are others.

If Logos is unwilling to consider this option, then they will either just settle for having two different forums (and chances are that this web forum will be the busiest due to sheer numbers), or they will pull the plug on their existing NNTP forum thereby forcing everyone in this direction.

Personally, I prefer NNTP. Business wise, I completely understand why Logos is setting up a web forum and if I was in their shoes, I would do the same thing, but allow for NNTP access.

The Logos gang read these forums, so it will be interesting to see what they say. It may be within their systems that setting up a simultaneous NNTP/web solution would not work for some reason that is not known to us.

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/184#Comment_184

The trouble is this: I have a friend who owns an ISP and he has told me that less than 1% of his user base uses NNTP (Usenet) News. The reason for this is that most people don't know how to use the internet beyond web browsers and an email client.

So it was inevitable that Logos would eventually set up a web forum because even if the percentage of Logos users who do know how to use NNTP is artificially high compared to other demographic, the reality is that it would be hard to conceive that it would be even more than half the user base. So to reach out to its majority customer base, Logos set up web forums.

The NNTP News is simplicity itself. The only thing which is the least bit difficult (and that not very) is setting up the account. If someone is having trouble setting up their news reader, I will be happy to come to their house to set it up for them if they will send me an airline ticket. Hopefully, they will also be so kind as to prepare a dinner -- Steak (medium rare), large baked potato with lots of butter, brocolli with cheese sause, strong coffee and, of course, a bit of Dago Red. Please hurry to send the ticket since I'm getting hungry already and I just finished eating!

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/185#Comment_185

That was D-a-g-o Red. Apparently this software is politically correct.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/186#Comment_186

ahhh, Dayglo Red. Good one!

J.R. Miller

Here is something that I found most helpful.

I set "Mail" to show incoming email as "threads". Now all my emails from this forum are listed in one threaded discussion in my inbox (one could have them automatically moved to a different mailbox as well). At any rate, I am able to read posts in threaded form and then simply click the link of the one I want to reply to.

It works well for my needs at least and maybe it will help some folks make the transition.[:)]

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/330#Comment_330

Here is something that I found most helpful.

I set "Mail" to show incoming email as "threads". Now all my emails from this forum are listed in one threaded discussion in my inbox (one could have them automatically moved to a different mailbox as well). At any rate, I am able to read posts in threaded form and then simply click the link of the one I want to reply to.

It works well for my needs at least and maybe it will help some folks make the transition.

Considering that I view the newsgroups in my email client (Thunderbird), this certainly is a strike against these forums. I've got your solution now, but better, since I don't have to access these forums to respond. I just hit reply and it gets posted (after I refresh the current view, of course).

Brian Whalen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/330#Comment_330

I'm reminded of the book Who Moved My Cheese.

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/903#Comment_903

I'm reminded of the book Who Moved My Cheese.

What is it, a kid's book?

David Emme

I would give a suggestion or two. Why not have both or is there a way to integrate the forums into a "newsgroup" type way of looking at things if this is better for one person. Another ideal is if we can make this like say yahoo groups when a new post comes on, we just get this in an email if we so choose to do so. I am used to yahoo way of doing things. Just ideas. Not geeky enough to know if any of these will work. I think things will get worked out for the better here.

God bless

Dave

Friedrich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/184#Comment_184

i never used the newsgroups because . . . I have never used them. didn't know how, didn't know where, and so, it was never helpful to me. I saw this forum promoted on teh blog, and clicked the link and now I have used it several times.

I am not against newsgroups. I just never used them.

Matt Wolf

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/330#Comment_330

I pleaded with Logos to make the info from the newsgroups available elsewhere, so I guess I'm partly to blame for the forums. But I'm one of that 99% who find newsgroups incomprehensible. I got the groups set up on my home computer, but couldn't find my way around. And what I really needed was to access y'all's intelligence from work, where newsgroups are not allowed. Thanks for enduring the forums for sake of n00bs like me.

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/3091#Comment_3091

I pleaded with Logos to make the info from the newsgroups available elsewhere, so I guess I'm partly to blame for the forums. But I'm one of that 99% who find newsgroups incomprehensible. I got the groups set up on my home computer, but couldn't find my way around. And what I really needed was to access y'all's intelligence from work, where newsgroups are not allowed. Thanks for enduring the forums for sake of n00bs like me.

We're going to gather at your house with baseball bats waiting for you to come out. [6] [:D]

Now, lest someone AGAIN accuse me of starting something, I'm joking.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/3091#Comment_3091

Thanks for enduring the forums for sake of n00bs like me.

We can make you the scapegoat ... But I'm adjusting to life with forums so well that newsgroups are beginning to look old hat!

J.R. Miller

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/3125#Comment_3125

Thanks for enduring the forums for sake of n00bs like me.

We can make you the scapegoat ... But I'm adjusting to life with forums so well that newsgroups are beginning to look old hat!

Hey, that is good news! [H]

Jerry Bush

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/330#Comment_330

I am another person who really detests the forums. However, I don't see Logos budging on this one. I think it is "take it or leave it."

So I guess I'll take it. Just not happily.

Jerry

spitzerpl

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/3158#Comment_3158

So I guess I'll take it. Just not happily.

Jerry

I think its a one step backwards, two steps forwards type of situation. For now we've only seen the step backwards. Originally they were trying to integrate the forum and newsgroups. My guess is that the forums would look different today if they started out with a Forums only solution. As we move forward I believe we will see improvements to the forums we currently have. For now though we are still working on the one step backwards.

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/3162#Comment_3162

I think its a one step backwards, two steps forwards type of situation.

Make that "two steps backward ... one step forward."

spitzerpl

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/3166#Comment_3166

I knew someone would say it :-)...

I would only add that with the newsgroups there was room to maintain the status quo but I'm not sure it could ever be improved. With the forum there is more likely hood of improving it down the road. We all know that in the computer world those who don't move forward quickly get left behind and die.

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/3169#Comment_3169

Metaphorically speaking,

the Newsgroups were similar to the first century New Testament Church passing around letters

while the forums remind me of Mars Hill (not Driscoll's church but the one in Acts) where everybody waxes philosophical.

How come I like the forums better? [6]

Jim Dean

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/3171#Comment_3171

C'mon, guys. The horse is dead. Poisoned, hanged downed and quartered.
This thread, with its negative title, seems to indicate unwillingness to be content "in whatever state".
L has not asked for feedback of this nature.
Let's see if we can just let it lay.
Please.

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