Too much stuff?

That had a question mark. I sometimes wonder if too much resourses are being applied to digitizing all and every book under the socalled chritian banner while we wait for "tools". I think of the verse that I think in Proverbs which says something like "too much verbocity there sin abounds". I wonder what the process is to screne junk books. There are way too many trees lost on usless print.

However, tools for better learning right from the "Word of God" would make us all better. I'm pasciently waiting for the "File" process to get cleaned up. It become very unwieldy after time and a tab,sort, etc process would be very helpful just to name one. Thanks I still brag on Logos to anyone who will listen.

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Todd Phillips

Logos has separate staff that do book creation versus application programming. I don't believe one necessarily detracts from the other. You can't easily throw resources at a programming project and expect it to get done faster. In fact, adding staff to a programming project can slow it down (as the regular staff has to train the new hires and wait for them to get up to speed).

Since "junk" is a subjective term, Logos would have to hire you to point out which books are junk in order to decide which books not to add (I'm assuming all the books they add are not considered junk by at least one person). Are you available for hire? [:)] I agree there are many books that I consider to be of questionable value, but I would rather Logos publish too much than too little, lest we risk the exclusion of good resources based on someone's option.

Certainly the Prepub and community pricing programs are being used to gauge demand for a book. So popularity is probably the main tool Logos uses. Plus when Logos gets a contract with a publisher, it's usually the publisher who decides which books are a part of the contract, and that's probably based on maximizing profit. And sometimes "junk" books sell, much to one's dismay.

Rich DeRuiter

That had a question mark. I sometimes wonder if too much resourses are being applied to digitizing all and every book under the socalled chritian banner while we wait for "tools" . . .

Like many companies, Logos divides its tasks into different divisions. Those who have expertise in resource development don't have the same skills as those who work in program development. Since Logos only makes money by selling resources, they'll keep churning out resources as fast as they can, and as many as they can. That's good for all since that means there will continue to be revenue to develop the program and all the tools needed to run and improve it.

For now, one little tip that helps somewhat for the file clutter issue is that you can search for what you're looking for by name or type. So, if you're looking for a note file you can eliminate all but notes by typing "Notes" in the "Open" command box. The same for other types of files (visual filters, handouts, passage lists, clippings, etc.). Of course, you can also search for a name, if you remember it, or a part of it.

If I remember correctly, Logos has promised to work on this, though, personally, I'd prefer they'd finish the Sermon File tool first.

tom

I wonder what the process is to screne junk books. There are way too many trees lost on usless print.

Question, who makes the decision on what books are classified as a 'junk book' and what books are classified as not a 'junk book?'

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/190595#Comment_190595

Question, who makes the decision on what books are classified as a 'junk book' and what books are classified as not a 'junk book?'

Like beauty, junk is in the eyes of the beholder. Or One man's trash is another man's treasure. I have run out of cliches, but I am sure someone else can supply a few more. [8-|]

Ward Walker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/190598#Comment_190598

everything that can be written has been written

Rick Ratzlaff

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/190598#Comment_190598

Unfortunately that's a good question - (Who makes the decision). That's the basic problem that has plagued Christianity since Genesis. The question was asked by Eve. (Did God really say......) Wasn't it also Pilot that asked "what is truth". In Ecc 1:9 the writer says "there is nothing new under the sun". Ecc 5:7 advices against “many words”. So you see I don't think it's actually that difficult to answer.

You see I believe that the unity principle means that One God, one Holy Spirit, One Jesus would not design a bible with um-teen dozen interpretations. And condone an attitude of “well it’s ok to interpret it anyway you like”. But my prayer is that the true church would find Logos as the most incredible tool to bring TRUTH back to the pulpit. Satan is alive and well and arguably the True Christian church is floundering in its reflection of Christ to the world, especially in North America. If more pastors used scripture to explain scripture, and plumb the depths themselves, it would weed out a lot of ½ truth expounders.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love my Logos and it has launched me into a passion for God and His word. I have been the spark plug to around 25 Bible program sales. However, if Logos is concerned more about revenue than truth, then we all know the end of that. Plus scripture is very clear about the responsibility to those who promote something other than the truth.

So I wonder if “12,000” available volumes ALL fall under the heading of "truth". Too much academia has impeded the church, “sold” many books, but that’s not the yard stick to relevance, and loved people right into hell.

Back to the original question – I know there are essential and non-essentials, however you can’t convince me that everything I see on my Logos home page today is “Truth”. Some is diametrically opposed to the Bible I read.

tom

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/190625#Comment_190625

You see I believe that the unity principle means that One God, one Holy Spirit, One Jesus would not design a bible with um-teen dozen interpretations.

I would recommend that you read What Do They Hear?: Bridging the Gap Between Pulpit & Pew by Dr. Mark Powell. This book shows how God uses the same scriptural verses to speak to different individuals.

The same thing happens every Sunday morning when we, for those of us who preaches, when we receive feedback from our sermons. People hear things that we did not say (or intended to say) because God used the words that we said to speak to the person's heart.

FYI... I have suggested Dr. Powell's work to be added to the Logos' library.

Floyd Johnson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/190628#Comment_190628

The same thing happens every Sunday morning when we, for those of us who preaches, when we receive feedback from our sermons. People hear things that we did not say (or intended to say) because God used the words that we said to speak to the person's heart.

That is my prayer each Sunday morning, "May they hear the voice of God - not the distractions outside, not the crying child, not the talkative couple, not, even, my voice, but the voice of God." When they hear God, they are far more likely to heed what they hear - still not perfect, but better.

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/190625#Comment_190625

In an ideal world, all the resources in Logos would be 100% theologically 'sound', extraordinarily well-written, and deeply life-changing.

There are certainly many resources that personally I won't bother with, either because they are relatively poor quality, or because they come from a theological position that doesn't interact with my own. However, so long as these other resources are pre-pub only, I can still benefit from them because:

they attract new revenue which can be invested in software features that benefit all of them
they attract customers who may go on to demand other higher-quality resources that do interact with my own position.
they make Logos more attractive to a larger audience, helping cement Logos' position as the Bible Software, which is good for us all in the long-term.

I must admit I do worry that some Logos users may think "if it's in Logos, it must be good", and blindly believe all that the resources tell them. Discernment is one spiritual gift that seems to be sadly lacking in our own day. But book-burning has never been necessary or even desirable to Christianity. The truth is powerful and will persevere.

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/190628#Comment_190628

You see I believe that the unity principle means that One God, one Holy Spirit, One Jesus would not design a bible with um-teen dozen interpretations.

I would recommend that you read What Do They Hear?: Bridging the Gap Between Pulpit & Pew by Dr. Mark Powell. This book shows how God uses the same scriptural verses to speak to different individuals.

Whenever I preach, I try to give one interpretation of the Biblical passage (this is what God says, and it is clear), and seek to apply it to many different people (this is how God's unchangeable Word interacts with your unique life). One interpretation, myriad applications.

Fred Chapman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/190637#Comment_190637

One interpretation, myriad applications.

Bob Utley, who has a number of resources in Logos format, discusses this issue in his video seminar. You can find this at http://www.freebiblecommentary.org/

Much of the material covered in his seminar can be purchased as an addition to your logos library http://www.logos.com/product/7861/bible-lessons-international-collection

Todd Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/190636#Comment_190636

I must admit I do worry that some Logos users may think "if it's in Logos, it must be good", and blindly believe all that the resources tell them. Discernment is one spiritual gift that seems to be sadly lacking in our own day. But book-burning has never been necessary or even desirable to Christianity. The truth is powerful and will persevere.

Agree on all points. The discernment problem existed before Logos though: in my younger days, I didn't think I needed discernment when buying books at a Christian book store. [:O] Christian book stores have long been filled with diverse theological views, theological error and spiritual fluff masquerading as solid food, which only got worse as fewer and fewer people bought books, and the corporate chains took over the locally owned stores and stocked only what sells quickly (mostly trinkets and art nowadays). Logos is better than the bookstore: they aren't forced by limited space to only stock bestsellers, they recognize that old doesn't equate to bad, and you won't find any "Christian Home Decor". [;)]

I'm glad when church leadership takes it upon themselves to recommend and promote books that will edify their congregations. That's the first place I suggest people go for recommendations if they are at a loss for direction. Asking strangers on the internet for advice is really no different than asking strangers on the street--asking a bookstore for advice isn't really much better (if you don't know where they're coming from theologically).

Edwin Bowden

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/190649#Comment_190649

I spent over 20 years in Christian publishing. The first half was as a manager of a Christian bookstore. I did not stock only the titles that lined up with my personal beliefs. I realized that I served the whole Christian community. I worked very hard to make sure that my staff knew the strengths and weaknesses of titles that we carried. We were able to provide guidance to our customers, especially to those who had developed a personal relationship.

When I became a rep for some book and Bible publishers, I tried to pass on to the buyers important information about the titles that I sold. There were times that I told my customers, "I wanted to let you know about this title, but I don't think it is one for your customers."

This is where it is good to develop a personal relationship with a Logos rep so that they know what your interests are.

Buyers always have to research and use discernment in buying books. Then they still need to use discernment when reading them.

Sam McCloud

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/190636#Comment_190636

I must admit I do worry that some Logos users may think "if it's in Logos, it must be good", and blindly believe all that the resources tell them. Discernment is one spiritual gift that seems to be sadly lacking in our own day. But book-burning has never been necessary or even desirable to Christianity. The truth is powerful and will persevere.

Well said.

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/190625#Comment_190625

Unfortunately that's a good question - (Who makes the decision).

Fortunately, it is Logos making the decision. They cast a wider net than most of us would. We then get the privilege of sorting through the good, the bad & the ugly as we shop with discriminating taste. [:D]

I often wonder how many Bible versions we can publish under the title of "God's word" when they differ widely on some key doctrinal basis. (Certain renderings DO preclude certain doctrines.) They can't all be correct. Which version should Logos promote? Would Logos be wrong to continue offering all the other versions?

If Logos holds any theological position could it be they take these passages literally?" Isaiah 55:11 & Matthew 7:7 & Hebrews 11:6

You could hardly say:
The Complete Works of William Shakespeare
The Harvard Classics and Fiction Collection (71 vols.)
American History Collection (8 vols.)
are Bible "Truth" but I am glad Logos offers them and hope to add them to my library.

Finally, I have to agree with you. Academia can insulate someone from facing truth. But God is able to cut through that insulation.

tom

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/190672#Comment_190672

They cast a wider net than most of us would

I am one who wishes that they would cast a wider net.

I have said this before, and I will say it again. I would like to see some books by feminist theologians like Elisabeth Schüssler Fiorenza. I would like to see some books by womanist theologians like Delores S. Williams. I would like to see some books by black liberation theologians like James Hal Cone. I would like to see some books by hispanic theologians like Justo L. Gonzalez. I would like to see some books by people who do not look like I do and who do not think like I do. This is because I learn more by authors who do not look and think like me than I do from authors who does look and think like me.

Do I always agree them? No, and that is good. Do they make me think differently? Yes, and that is good.

Mike Childs

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/190636#Comment_190636

I must admit I do worry that some Logos users may think "if it's in Logos, it must be good", and blindly believe all that the resources tell them

Really? I haven't come across anyone that dumb yet. Indeed, I worry much more about those who have God in their theological box, and stop their ears to anyone who does not agree 100% with their interpretation. Over the years I have been amazed at who God would choose to teach me something. Often, it is the last person I would expect, and often someone whom I was trying to straighten out. Isn't that just like God?

I found this quote in my Logos edition of John Wesley's Works: "A man may be orthodox in every point; he may not only espouse right opinions, but zealously defend them against all opposers;.. He may be almost as orthodox — as the devil, (though, indeed, not altogether; for every man errs in something; whereas we cannot well conceive him to hold any erroneous opinion,) and may, all the while, be as great a stranger as he to the religion of the heart."

Don't worry too much about it. The truth will win out. The truth need not be afraid of the false.

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/190780#Comment_190780

This is because I learn more by authors who do not look and think like me than I do from authors who does look and think like me.

I think I get what you are saying but I have found the "looks" part to be a notoriously unreliable gauge of what somebody believes. I find myself disagreeing with more blue-eyed white guys than my friends from Ghana, Korea, or Guatemala.

I have always encouraged Logos to publish wider & wider varieties of resources. I do not think everyone has to own every title in Logos. (But wouldn't that be cool?)

And just because an author gets published does not make their work true, scholarly or reliable.

David Ames

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/191018#Comment_191018

I do not think everyone has to own every title in Logos. (But wouldn't that be cool?)

How much would it cost to have a Logos Library with everything in it?

How much would it have cost to buy everything that was (will be) released in 2010?

spitzerpl

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/191051#Comment_191051

How much would it cost to have a Logos Library with everything in it?

I vote for a Logos Charity Raffle!

Edwin Bowden

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/191051#Comment_191051

How much would it have cost to buy everything that was (will be) released in 2010?

Rosie should be able to give us a pretty good idea. [:)]

BKMitchell

... I sometimes wonder if too much resources are being applied to digitizing all and every book under the so-called christian banner while we wait for "tools".

...tools for better learning right from the "Word of God" would make us all better...

Great question! And, if you feel that way you'd be better off with something like the Original Languages Base Package or the SESB. I went with the SESB it only has the good stuff' then I added the Massorah Gedolah in the BHS helps collection. You could also create your own original library with only those books/resources that are most pertinent to you.

This is what I like most about Logos: the fact that you do not have to buy what you do not need or want!

THE POST SCRIPT:

keep this in mind, Logos is in the service business and they seek to serve a wide audience both in and out of the various communities with in Christendom.

Just, as there is no one 'Christianity' there is also no one 'canon of Scripture' that all communities of faith can equally agree is the word of God. For example with in Christianity the accepted Bible of the Orthodox Churches is not the same as that of the Catholic Church and neither match with the Protestant Scriptures and so on. Jewish users also have a different canon and might desire resources that reflect this.

Now, if we of the communities of faith can not even agree on one canon of Scripture, how much harder for us to all agree on the same library resources! It's like getting two people to agree on the same Pizzas toppings(or even to agree on liking Pizza). But, hey the good news is with Logos we don't have to! There's something for everyone.

So, my friend go and build your library!

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/191051#Comment_191051

How much would it cost to have a Logos Library with everything in it?

I would think Dan Pritchett could answer that with a few database queries.

There are a few users who have most everything Logos publishes. They don't post much on the forums but I get the idea they have considerable financial bounty so it is not that difficult to build their libraries.

With a library of 10,000 books or more, we may never hear much from them. They are too busy reading. [8-|]

Ward Walker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/191101#Comment_191101

How much would it cost to have a Logos Library with everything in it?

I would think Dan Pritchett could answer that with a few database queries.

There are a few users who have most everything Logos publishes. They don't post much on the forums but I get the idea they have considerable financial bounty so it is not that difficult to build their libraries.

With a library of 10,000 books or more, we may never hear much from them. They are too busy reading.

They would post more, but they are always indexing... [co]

Doug Wesney

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/190625#Comment_190625

That's why it's important to distinguish between seeking Truth and possessing Truth. Possession rests with God...I don't "have" it. I seek it. Accordingly, I will fail, make errors and/or be incomplete. While some publications may be poor in my estimation, I welcome the opportunity to be corrected and improved. Ultimately, I seek that in God, but he certainly works thru many vessels. Using C. S. Lewis' analogy, I prefer to be used as a son than as a tool...but either way, I will be used.

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/191101#Comment_191101

There are a few users who have most everything Logos publishes.

I'm not sure that's true. My bibliography service allows users to upload their libraries to my website. Only one comes anywhere near being complete (and that's still several thousand short), and only seven (out of 329) have more than 5,000 resources

David Ames

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/191051#Comment_191051

How much would it cost to have a Logos Library with everything in it?

How much would it have cost to buy everything that was (will be) released in 2010?

No one knows so I called sales and asked - they do not have a number for total nor fir this year.

[something was said that if you offered $50,000 they might give you the rights to everything]

They said that if they could and if they found something they might reply here.

Peter Covert

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/190780#Comment_190780

I am one who wishes that they would cast a wider net.

[Y]