Why is Amplified Bible missing from base packages?
I really enjoy the Amplified Bible, but for some reason it doesn't get much support. Why is this? None of the base packages (even Portfolio) include it. It seems strange to me that a "bible" program would be missing such a fantastic bible translation in even in its largest base package. Does anyone know why Logos made the decision to leave it out? Isn't it from the same people who produced the NASB? I can't see the publisher requesting special treatment for this translation.
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Maybe because Logos encourages a fairly scholarly approach to the study of the Scriptures.
The Amplified Bible can be misleading to the uninformed because it gives just about every possible nuance of a word or phrase whereas a word, in a particular context, is likely to mean only one of those things.
This version is, however, available to buy as a separate item - and I have it!
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I am not speaking for Logos, but I spent 20 years in Christian publishing.
Bible publishers told me that the Lockman Foundation (which owns the rights) is one of the more difficult copyright holders to deal with.
I have noticed several publishing oddities that seem to confirm this over the last 4 decades.
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David Matthew said:
Maybe because Logos encourages a fairly scholarly approach to the study of the Scriptures.
Ahhh, yes - that's why The Message is included in the Bible Study library but not the Home library[;)]
I got the Amplified with the NAS Electronic Bible Library.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Your history and expertise are spot-on. But I won't say much more.Edwin Bowden said:
I am not speaking for Logos, but I spent 20 years in Christian publishing.
Bible publishers told me that the Lockman Foundation (which owns the rights) is one of the more difficult copyright holders to deal with.
I have noticed several publishing oddities that seem to confirm this over the last 4 decades.
I purchased the Amplified Bible from Logos individually before I bought the NAS Electronic Bible Library. So I have two, I guess. [:)]Dave Hooton said:I got the Amplified with the NAS Electronic Bible Library.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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The (Amplified/Explained/Elaborated) bible is not (was not, will not) be (included/part of the package/published) because of the (Publisher/copyright holder/owner) and their (practices/customs)
just thought I'd have some fun with this thread.Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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David Matthew said:
Maybe because Logos encourages a fairly scholarly approach to the study of the Scriptures.
The Amplified Bible can be misleading to the uninformed because it gives just about every possible nuance of a word or phrase whereas a word, in a particular context, is likely to mean only one of those things.
This version is, however, available to buy as a separate item - and I have it!
Logos is not only for the "uninformed". [:O] I can't see just any Joe Christian picking up the Scholar's base package. I guess it's a copyright thing. [:@]
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David Matthew said:
The Amplified Bible can be misleading to the uninformed because it gives just about every possible nuance of a word or phrase whereas a word, in a particular context, is likely to mean only one of those things.
Does anyone have a good example of a misleading text? Thanks.
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Ronald Quick said:
Does anyone have a good example of a misleading text?
I think what's being said is a valid criticism; that a person who believes (yes...they do exist) that you can just "pick the word that seems to suit you" is being done a disservice. Words have meaning, and context drives that meaning.
For example:
From Hebrews:
3He is the sole expression of the glory of God [the Light-being, the out-raying
or radiance of the divine], and He is the perfect imprint and very
image of [God's] nature, upholding and maintaining and guiding and
propelling the universe by His mighty word of power. When He had by
offering Himself accomplished our cleansing of sins and riddance of
guilt, He sat down at the right hand of the divine Majesty on high,4[Taking
a place and rank by which] He Himself became as much superior to angels
as the glorious Name (title) which He has inherited is different from
and more excellent than theirs."The "light being"? Is that what the original author meant when he said "Theos?"
Here is another example:
1PAUL, SILVANUS (Silas),
and Timothy, to the church (assembly) of the Thessalonians in God our
Father and the Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One):2Grace
(unmerited favor) be to you and [heart] peace from God the Father and
the Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One).Since when is εἰρήνη "heart"?
It's misleading in that people believe that you can just insert any one of the choices into the text...that's simply not true.
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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All translations are misleading!!! Anyone saying the Amplified Bible is misleading had better be willing to admit that the translation they are using is misleading too! I have no idea why it is not in all packages, although it is would be considered a special use bible. You must understand how it was translated and what it's purpose is, but that is true of all translations. I am not sure but I think the publishers may have a copy of it to use on their website.
In Christ,
Jim VanSchoonhoven
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Jim,
Slow down...lol...
The point is that the amplified (loudened/bullhorned/increased/verbosed) bible is that it gives you many choices of a word and many people think that you just "pick the one that fits"...and that's the difference between the Amp bible and a translation...that's the misleading part...not that the translators of the amp have made their choices....all translations make decisions...but that's the EXACT ELEMENT that's being discussed here...not translation choices....
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Pick a word? Wrong! (as I understand the amplified version) In this version the one WORD that all the other versions use is to be seen as not one word but the SUM of ALL of the listed words. A word has a range of meaning and the Amplified is trying to show us that range.
[Also there is another similar tool now gathering interest :
The Emphasized Bible, by Joseph Bryant Rotherham, is a unique translation which helps English-only Bible readers to understand the linguistic and literary nuances of the Greek and Hebrew texts. This translation aims for a literal rendering of the original languages, and adds markings to]
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Robert ... on your examples of the Amplified Bible text, keep in mind that brackets mean something added; NOT in the original greek/hebrew. I got the Amplified, just like I got the Message Bible for the same reason .... another 'take' on the original text. I think its often misleading to assume you can easily move from one language to another without loosing embedded meaning. This is obvious if you're familiar with hebrew, and then read the LXX. I'm always a bit suspicious when someone worries that 'people might read the Bible wrong'. As if there's someone who has the 'right' version.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Robert, if you read my post again, you will see that I actually said, it was important to understand how something was translated and for what purpose. That directly addresses your statement. There is no doubt that many people fail to read the purpose statement in the front of their bibles, that is not the fault of those that did the translation. It is also the cause of many people being mislead, no matter what their bible is!
The point I was addressing is that I doubt the Amplified Bible is left out of these packages for the reasons some have suggested. In Logos there are other tools for those that do not know Greek to come to a better understanding of what a passage means, but for years I have used NASB, NKJV, as my two main bibles and when I was in doubt about a meaning and just wanted some quick ideas on other possible meanings I would read the Amplified to see if any of their meanings might have made more sense or helped me to see the meaning of a passage.
When I went to the Greek text and seen what it actually said, I often saw how many times the Amplified bible had actually been helpful without looking at the Greek. This is the purpose of this bible, it is geared towards those that do not know Greek, and it is helpful when two or more very literal translations are not making sense to you, by bring up other possible ways that passage could have been translated. It does this by giving you a bunch of possible meanings, that you can use in the context and see if one of those meanings fit better.
In Christ,
Jim VanSchoonhoven
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Denise Barnhart said:
As if there's someone who has the 'right' version.
Actually, that would be what we are shooting for would it not? What the original author meant in his own context?
A word has one meaning in it's context, and the point of all I've said was that many people use the amp bible as a "pick what word you think fits best and insert it" sort of bible...
THAT'S why I said I didn't like it.
I wasn't commenting on whether it was included because of that reason...I'd have no way of knowing anything about that.
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Jim VanSchoonhoven said:
When I went to the Greek text and seen what it actually said, I often saw how many times the Amplified bible had actually been helpful without looking at the Greek. This is the purpose of this bible, it is geared towards those that do not know Greek, and it is helpful when two or more very literal translations are not making sense to you, by bring up other possible ways that passage could have been translated. It does this by giving you a bunch of possible meanings, that you can use in the context and see if one of those meanings fit better.
Jim,
then you are smarter than the average bear!
Many people (not all) use it like a smorgasborg of words that they can pick and choose according to what they think fits....
That was my point...you're just smarter than most...that's all....
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Joshua Garcia said:
Logos is not only for the "uninformed".
I can't see just any Joe Christian picking up the Scholar's base package.Yep, partial knowledge can be very misleading. Some people don't understand electricity. Double-distilled water does not conduct electricity. But if someone acts on this partial knowledge without knowing "regular" water conducts electricity well, that person can be electrocuted,
I do not think the answer is to protect "Joe Christian" from having the tools to dig deeper, but to give the non-scholar all the tools possible and teach him how to properly handle those tools. A few weeks back Ted Hans quoted from the D.A. Carson book, Exegetical Fallacies. That post led me to purchase another Logos resource, The Hermeneutical Spiral, that I am enjoying very much.
If a user understands the proper use of The Amplified Bible, it will benefit their studies. It is NOT a translation in the true sense.Jim VanSchoonhoven said:You must understand how it was translated and what it's purpose is, but that is true of all translations.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Robert Pavich said:
"The "light being"? Is that what the original author meant when he said "Theos?"
To be fair, I think that's what the Amplified thinks the author meant by the glory of theos. But believe me, I'm as unimpressed with the Amplified as anyone else who knows how translation should work.
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David Ames said:
Pick a word? Wrong! (as I understand the amplified version) In this version the one WORD that all the other versions use is to be seen as not one word but the SUM of ALL of the listed words. A word has a range of meaning and the Amplified is trying to show us that range.
It's wrong for any translation to do that. In a given context, a word does not exercise its entire lexical range; the full range is not available to the reader. On the contrary, it is a fundamental hermeneutical and translation principle that a word in a given context should be understood to carry the most narrow unit of meaning out of its entire lexical range, not the broadest.
David Ames said:[Also there is another similar tool now gathering interest :
The Emphasized Bible, by Joseph Bryant Rotherham, is a unique translation which helps English-only Bible readers to understand the linguistic and literary nuances of the Greek and Hebrew texts. This translation aims for a literal rendering of the original languages, and adds markings to]
I have more respect for Rotherham's than for the Amplified, and Rotherham did readers e a service with his grammatical apparatus. He also revised it according to the latest available text critical scholarship. But it's still way out of date these days. I like some of his renderings however, I much prefer 'And God said 'Light, be', and light was', to the KJV.
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David Ames said:
Pick a word? Wrong! (as I understand the amplified version) In this version the one WORD that all the other versions use is to be seen as not one word but the SUM of ALL of the listed words. A word has a range of meaning and the Amplified is trying to show us that range.
That is precisely the way I use The Amplified Bible. And the way I believe it was intended to be used.
David Ames said:[Also there is another similar tool now gathering interest :
The Emphasized Bible, by Joseph Bryant Rotherham, is a unique translation which helps English-only Bible readers to understand the linguistic and literary nuances of the Greek and Hebrew texts. This translation aims for a literal rendering of the original languages, and adds markings to]
The Emphasized Bible I am looking afterward to reading that one.
Jonathan Burke said:It's wrong for any translation to do that.
But it is NOT a translation.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Jim VanSchoonhoven said:
This is the purpose of this bible, it is geared towards those that do not know Greek, and it is helpful when two or more very literal translations are not making sense to you, by bring up other possible ways that passage could have been translated. It does this by giving you a bunch of possible meanings, that you can use in the context and see if one of those meanings fit better.
What concerns me is that this gives the layman the idea that they can do a better job of translation than professional translation committees. I've seen too much 'Amplified Bible abuse' and 'Strong's Concordance abuse' to view favourably any tool which gives the layman the false illusion of superior knowledge without learning.
Looking at a bunch of alternative readings doesn't make the layman any better able to translate the text than if they were looking at a translation which only provided one reading.
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Jonathan Burke said:
What concerns me is that this gives the layman the idea that they can do a better job of translation than professional translation committees. I've seen too much 'Amplified Bible abuse' and 'Strong's Concordance abuse' to view favourably any tool which gives the layman the false illusion of superior knowledge without learning.
I have also seen abuse of The Living Bible, The Message, The NIV and pulpits across America. I would not seek to ban any of these venues or restrict their use to pre-qualified experts. I know from your posts you are a well educated and clear thinker. You were not born into this state of maturity and scholarship. Someone allowed you (as a novice) to read, study, think & question. Just because another must spend many hours weekly in pursuits that are mundane but necessary to his survival (a layman) we should not deny him the same opportunity to study.
Jesus chose a bunch of laymen to be his disciples. We have examples of the religious scholars, both Jewish and Christian, who have tried to limit access to the treasures of the word of God to their own inner circles.
Jonathan Burke said:Looking at a bunch of alternative readings doesn't make the layman any better able to translate the text than if they were looking at a translation which only provided one reading.
I would prefer Logos' present modus operandi of providing as much resources as possible to that of censoring all scholarship we deem inferior. Even if that means including material from long list of current Logos resources censored, so as not to offend . I trust God is able to keep his half of the "seek & ye shall find" promise.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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I think you can get it but you have to pay extra.
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Matthew C Jones said:
I have also seen abuse of The Living Bible, The Message, The NIV and pulpits across America.
Certainly, any translation can be abused. But the Amplified Bible specifically encourages a particular kind of abuse. It encourages it actively. Not many translations actually do that.Matthew C Jones said:I would not seek to ban any of these venues or restrict their use to pre-qualified experts.
Nor would I. I just don't see the need to publish them when there are more useful resources which could be published instead. If people really want them, they can find resources like the Amplified Bible online.
Matthew C Jones said:I know from your posts you are a well educated and clear thinker. You were not born into this state of maturity and scholarship. Someone allowed you (as a novice) to read, study, think & question. Just because another must spend many hours weekly in pursuits that are mundane but necessary to his survival (a layman) we should not deny him the same opportunity to study.
Thanks for your kind words. I will say that if I had been left to believe that the Amplified Bible was improving my ability to understand Scripture, it would have taken me a lot longer to learn important principles about translation, and about understanding Scripture. If someone hadn't explained to me that the way I'd been using Strong's for years was completely wrong, I would have perpetuated that same error for who knows how long. I don't want anyone to have to spend years and hours learning very simple principles which they could learn in five minutes and save themselves the kind of time I wasted.
Matthew C Jones said:I would prefer Logos' present modus operandi of providing as much resources as possible to that of censoring all scholarship we deem inferior. Even if that means including material from long list of current Logos resources censored, so as not to offend . I trust God is able to keep his half of the "seek & ye shall find" promise.
There's a difference between censorship and choosing not to provide product X. When a vendor chooses not to provide product X, and product X is already available freely on the Internet in half a dozen forms, that's not censorship. I agree that God is able to keep His half of 'Seek and you shall find', but I don't believe we should blindfold people who are seeking, or roll rocks in their way. I believe we should help clear the way as much as possible.
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by the way...
I'm neither for; nor against the Amp bible...I really don't care.
I was merely EXPLAINING what another poster had tried to say...lol
I was also EXPLAINING what people do when they see it (same as they do with lexical resources) they pick what word seems good to them...
I'm not using this to poo-poo the Amp bible...just trying to EXPLAIN why another poster said it was misleading....(not that the editors of the Amp bible were trying to mislead anyone...)
I hope that's clear....
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Robert, that's very clear and I agree with you.
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I also agree completely.
Years ago when they made the fatal decision to move from the latin to the german, I just KNEW they were going down a slippery-slope.
Of course, I wasn't alive, but that was a minor issue.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Jonathan Burke said:
Nor would I. I just don't see the need to publish them when there are more useful resources which could be published instead. If people really want them, they can find resources like the Amplified Bible online.
I have walked through many Christian bookstores thinking the same thing. One of Satan's most effective methods is to bury God's truth under mountains of half-truths. But I don't want Logos to turn over publication decisions to any one narrow perspective. I disagree with more viewpoints in Logos resources than I agree with. So chances are great The Censor would not choose the resources I value most. I am willing to entertaing divergent views so that I may have mine published too. The scholarly works you value probably could not get published in Logos without other works subsidizing scanners, coders and keyers.
Many Logos users complain frequently in the forums about resources they deem unfaithful to their understanding of the Bible. We have seen threads for and against Calvinism, fundamentalism, Catholicism, Adventism and so on. I am sure you and Robert don't agree with every resource Logos publishes. (How could you?) Why start with The Amplified Bible? As it is not included in a base package, you are not forced to pay for it. But we all received The Message in our packages and no one is complaining here. (George Somsel chastised me last year for my derision of Peterson's paraphrase. George was right to put me in my place. Others actually like The Message and I should not impede their access to it, no matter how much I want to protect them from it! [:O] )Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Jonathan Burke said:
But the Amplified Bible specifically encourages a particular kind of abuse. It encourages it actively.
Whilst the Amplified Bible may enable a certain type of abuse I think it is wrong to associate this with any form of intent to encourage abuse. There are a whole range of Bibles, Language Tools, Commentaries, Theologies, etc. that can be used to abuse God's word.
Personally I also feel that the use of the term "lay person" is itself an abuse of others it is certainly one that I avoid because it is divisive and is actually poorly defined. I'm guessing that in the context of this thread "lay person" is synonymous with a person who does not posses the appropriate education in the original languages to determine the true meaning of the original text but another definition could be those who have not been ordained as "priests" within their denomination.
The problem is not the tool but the way we train people to use the tool and also the way we keep people away from tools that could damage them. I know many well educated so called "lay" people who use the Amplified Version, knowing its limitations, to help them get a deeper insight into God's Word.
God Bless
Graham
Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke
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Matthew C Jones said:
I am sure you and Robert don't agree with every resource Logos publishes. (How could you?) Why start with The Amplified Bible? As it is not included in a base package, you are not forced to pay for it.
I'll try and be as clear as i can..
I WASN'T COMPLAINING...I WAS MERELY EXPLAINING WHAT SOMEONE ELSE SAID.....
I could care less what package it's in or if it's included in anything....gosh....
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Jonathan Burke said:
I will say that if I had been left to believe that the Amplified Bible was improving my ability to understand Scripture, it would have taken me a lot longer to learn important principles about translation, and about understanding Scripture. If someone hadn't explained to me that the way I'd been using Strong's for years was completely wrong, I would have perpetuated that same error for who knows how long. I don't want anyone to have to spend years and hours learning very simple principles which they could learn in five minutes and save themselves the kind of time I wasted.
Jonathan I am interested in what you are saying here and I mean this from a learning standpoint. I am a layman without any knowledge of the original language what so ever have nothing more than a 12th grade education. But I truly like to study Gods Word and have for many years ‘and understand how important it is to use the right word in the context you are studying and my idea of this is to use the BDAG and the Louw-nida to help me chose the right word. Is this in the ball park of what you are talking about? If you don’t mind explain to me in layman’s terms what I need to do to get the most out of the many hours I dedicate to studying Gods Word. I have L4 platinum library
Thanks very much
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