You'll want to see what just showed up on Twitter:
Yup, I agree Jason. Also, perhaps this is just with my account but when you go to your Logos account online it only shows the resources/packages that you purchased online. It doesn't show the packages I have purchased at a book store or the upgrades through Logos. I am hopeful that if we do have to be connected to their servers that they will sync our entire library rather than just those that show up on our online account.
There's no need to worry about this. When you purchase a product (whether from Logos directly, or from a store, or another on-line distributor), that product is activated to your account. So Logos has a record of every product that your account has access to. That's why we can backup, restore, and sync our licenses. See this logos blog entry for more information about this: http://blog.logos.com/archives/2009/10/license_and_registration_please.html
As for needing internet access to view our books, I don't think that's quite how it will work. If you look at http://m.logos.com/images/full/iphone_bible6.png you'll notice that the iphone shows three tabs at the top: Bookshelf, library, and store. My guess (and it is just a guess) is that we will be able to download various amounts of books (based on the memory of the Iphone/Ipod?). These books compose our "bookshelf." Once put on the Iphone/pod, we wouldn't need internet access to view them. If we wanted to switch books, we could access our LIbrary (which would require internet access) and then remove books from our bookshelf and add books to our bookshelf from our Library. Again, that's just a guess based on the picture, but I think it seems logical.
I disagree with Thomas Black's list!!!
Oh wait, I am late by at least 4 hours [:D]
I hope Logos doesn't re-blur those images...
Way to go Joe! [:p]
A part of me wonders if I should've copied the blurred ones...comparing blurred to non would be a good way to figure out the rest! Fun times today!
Well, it's been there for well over 24hrs now, so if no one else wants the book, I'll take it:
"First one to find this code and mention it on the forums will get a... looking around my office... signed copy of Randy Alcorn's book, Heaven."
Hmm, interesting. I was thinking that it would just be a transfer from your PC/Mac library to the iPhone but I forgot that unless your phone/touch is jailbroken that you don't have access to the file system.
Andy,
I found it the other day and mentioned it. Sorry [:S]
Oh, that's what you meant by line # 176. No problem.
In the last hour I received RC5.
That is very encouraging! Does that mean the rest of pics will be unblurred soon [;)]
RC5...wow you all are really moving along on this. Are we to assume mLogos RC5 is iPhone only? That would be a bad assumption I think...after all it is mLogos and not iLogos. But on the other hand I believe someone mentioned the alternate site for m.Logos is iPhoneBibleSoftware.com. It's good to know how far along the program is. Now as for Logos 4...everyone would love to hear an update.
This process has a very Apple feel to it. Kind of like Steve Job announces we have a new iPod coming out and it comes out tomorrow. Apple other than the fact that you all are feeding us a bunch of fuel for the fire. Love it.
all about Christ,David
That, I can't answer. I don't have my hands on the blurring controls. I just wanted to point out that your wait will not be in vain. The application runs today.
I am curious to hear some feedback on what you all think would be a fair price for this product with your present understanding of what it is.
Want more pictures unblurred? Why not... same routine as yesterday.
Of course, you realize that all the "pictures" are hand-created mock-ups from our original spec. sheet right? In other words, they are from the original ideas we had when we sat down and said, "Let's dream big! If we could do anything we wanted with the iPhone what would it look like?"
Any product that may or may not be developed from the original ideas may or may not look the same... [:|] In fact, you can see on some of the notes, that we even discuss whether a feature is feasible or not, or whether it will be version 1 or later, if ever...
Are we driving you insane yet? [A]
Are we driving you insane yet?
not yet... [:)]
Dale, I think a fair price would be based on what it does or perhaps how it does it. If it is a program like iTunes for instance and it syncs with our current libraries on our computer then a price for the engine would be what we need to determine. With that being said $5 - $20 would be a great price for the engine. Mac users paid $60 for the engine. Windows users originally paid for the engine (don't know what that price was).
If this is a "set" or you cannot use your home books that would be very sad. I think you would loose out on some users who already have a library built up and not interested in buying everything over again.
As an Alltel customer at the end of the year we are being sold to AT&T. I haven't decided what kind of phone to get yet. Or maybe I will try my luck with Verizon again (their service was horrible in our area when we first moved year almost 18 months ago). I would probably rather have an Android...but the iPhone is appealing for shear volume of what it offers.
all about Christ,David Buckham
Anyone else see this answer? My question was so to Dale...Are we to assume this is iPhone only? His answer:
That, I can't answer. I don't have my hands on the blurring controls.
Did we miss something in the blurring pictures that would answer that question?
all about Christ,
David Buckham
Did we miss something in the blurring pictures that would answer that question? all about Christ,
David,
Sorry, that was a response to my question of "Does that mean the rest of pics will be unblurred soon?" I think based on everything we've seen, this is an iphone app only (at least for now. Though I'd be happy if I were wrong!).
Dan - I retract my previous request. I did not realize these were all mock-ups. Tricky! How about some new, actual pics of RC5 running! Now that would be fantastic [H].
Dale, Based on the shots you've shown us, it appears we'll have access to the vast majority of our library, swapping out what books are actually on the device at any giventime. I'd agree with David that $5-20 would certainly be a fair price. I'm guessing that based on the development time, this was a less costly investment than the Mac engine, and so I'd assume that would be reflected in the price. I'd also guess that anything more than $20 would be a deterrent to people looking for iphone bible software who aren't already logos users.
David Philips,
Maybe I am just wanting so much for it to not be an iPhone only app that I am seeing things that aren't there. Thanks for the clairification.
Agreed on the price. $19.99 has a good ring to it and would seem to be a fair price for giving us a mobile version of our Libronix. Does that seem feasible?
I can't wait, it sounds like it will be coming out very soon! I'm excited!
Dale,
A price is hard to say. I think the Mac engine is way overpriced and just in general I would not expect an iPhone app to cost anywhere near the Mac engine price. If the iPhone app is as cool as it looks in the pictures (though I'm still wondering how much is stored locally and how much is pulled "in the cloud") I'd have little trouble justifying as much as $30 or so for the iPhone app. Much higher than that and I would have a harder time swinging it, though I would be more understanding than I am of the Mac engine price.
Oh wait, did I say $30? I mean, you should charge $0.99!
Since Joe Miller disagreed he gets to pick! [:p] (feeling the pressure yet Joe?)
If it is what it looks to be, I would not have problem to see the price about 30 USD. Of course, for the iPhone apps it is a lot. You can see most of the software on iTunes AppStore cheaper, but Logos looks totally out of any class we have seen so far. For me 30 USD would be fair price.
"Let's dream big! If we could do anything we wanted with the iPhone what would it look like?"
You guys are dreaming big and didn't put "Prayer List" on there?
I would suggest $20-$30 if I'm able to store a selection of my books locally and $10 or less if resources can't be stored locally.
Good point. Thanks.
Pricing is tricky since the competition distributes the reader for free and charges for resources. I hate to say it but if I can access my library on it as it seems we'll be able to do (whether from your FTP or from copying the resource files to the ipod) and search the resources, I'd pay upto $50. BUT- this would be a great way to expand Logos' userbase and get new customer's while they're young if it's more moderately priced. (My youth would probably buy it around $15-20 and then buy devotionals with their new logos accounts.) *shrugs*
Also- can you all let us know if resources are local or on your ftp? And if they are the same size as PC library? Some of us need to let loved one's know soon what size iPod Touch to ask for for Christmas!
Thanks for your comments regarding pricing. I especially appreciate it when you explain the reasons for your conclusions. This is a big help. The iPhone software app is an exciting product and the result of a much larger development program than meets the eye. We are committed to making this product a great value for our users. Please continue to express yourselves -- Dale
(My youth would probably buy it around $15-20 and then buy devotionals with their new logos accounts.)
This is a fresh thought to me. I confess that I never thought about the potential of youth with this application. What are you thinking about in an ideal scenario?
I think Matt makes a good point. The point being, who or what is the iphone app focused at. If it is just focused at those who currently have Libronix, then yes, it would make sense to charge a lot for the app (up to $50 per person). In the case of this type of appealing to this type of customer, you won't be seeing sales of resources over and above what you currently are.
However, if you are looking to bring in new users through the program, having a super expensive app would work against that. As Matt said, there are many Bible programs out there that are absolutely free or cost under $20 to have the NIV included.
Where you could stand to make money in offering a cheap ipod app would be selling the resources. You easily have the biggest resource library of any of the iphone/ipod touch bible companies. And, by looking at the ideas posted on m.logos.com you will easily have the most maneuverable application.
Another idea would be to sell the program free to everyone, but charge those who have the resources on their computer $.50 to transfer a resource onto their ipod/iphone (kind of in the way that kindle does). Making people pay small sums as they go along makes it seem more manageable and affordable then giving them a huge lump sum. I'd only do this option though if you are going to make the program free.
Unblurring...
Personally I'd like to see 35 (looks like an Exegetical Guide) and 6 (find out more about the bookshelf, library, and store), but I yield to whatever "king" is chosen this time around.
Pricing
Coming from the perspective of a student who has already (at least it feels like) invested a lot in Logos (Gold pkg, NICOT/NICNT [credit card was just charged - woot!], Mac Engine), I really don't want to pay a lot to have content I've already paid for once on my iPod. I'd be comfortable with a price around $20, which is comparable to other premium apps. With your amazing wealth of available resources at that price you'll also be very attractive to non Logos users, as the current Bible apps (OliveTree, Laridian, Mantis, etc. [i have at least 6 bible apps + kindle app on my iPod]) have nothing on the ideas on m.logos.com.
Can't wait til it's in the appstore! (And if you need any more beta testers, I've beta-tested other iPhone/Pod apps before [;)])
An interesting article on the pricing of iPhone apps on Gizmodo today. Australian link: http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2009/10/the-app-store-effect-are-iphone-apps-headed-for-oblivion
Good news
I see the Logos iPhone/iTouch App as less of a direct profit (recoup development costs) but rather a potent entry point for new users looking at bible systems to the Logos computer based systems. In that vein I think the App should be cheap, as revenue will come from the existing model which I think works well. This way existing Logos customers (really investors, because once you buy into a bible software system enough its too costly for most people to really change) aren't much more out of pocket for the App and will buy more books specifically to have them on their iPhones/iTouches like daily readings etc. They will also help sell more Logos software and books by virtue of always have their Logos everywhere which should generate interest and sales.
The App for me will make all my other iPhone bible readers irrelevant (assuming we get good functionality such has been discussed and hinted at in this thread) because they all require me to rebuy resources I already have in Logos.
I think you should also consider promoting the App with contingencies to allow those with entirely other Bible software platforms to migrate across to Logos which has everything everywhere, along with what ever attractive transition package you can offer for a limited time. I dont know how this transition of licences works but I am sure I have seen it in the past.
Could we see something in about two weeks? Apple claims most get through in that time. Another bible beta I tested was approved about that quickly after resubmission. So lets hope it gets approved first time around.
Just a thought.
What if youth did pick up on this. I didn't think of this before. But please enable PBB. The youth leader could create a PBB style devotional or lesson. If there was a way to direct transfer of a PBB file....
Just thinking it through a little more. This could work well also for sermon based small groups. An easier, greener way, of pushing out material.
The only problem with this is the price of the PBB creator and if it would work with iPhone app.
I would expect to see it in the 1-2 week range, but it's in Apple's hands. It was interesting watching the author of the Tweetie app fret while waiting for Tweetie 2 approval. I think that took 9 days.
I completely agree with supporting PBB. And if you build that support for the iphone it should be simple to add it to the Mac engine[H]
Blessings,
Michael Kares
Well.. I like what I see, lets hope that the Apple tester understands same vision too..
With the coming iPhone Logos we desperately need some more European languages Bibles. Of course Czech Bibles should be the first [:)] Polish the second etc. etc. There are no modern Czech Bibles on the iPhone yet. You might be first, Logos. That would really open you up to the Czech pastors and especially youth leaders. Many of them use iPhone. We don't need Czech books and commentaries. The only thing we need is Bibles. All the other stuff can be English. We do not preach from the commentaries, we preach from the Bible! Please, consider that aspect. Europe is quite big market, but even more, Europe is more and more a mission field. We need Bible in the iPhones, Notebooks, Netbooks, iTablet (if such will exist sometimes...) Looking forward to seeing all of that soon.
charge those who have the resources on their computer $.50 to transfer a resource onto their ipod/iphone
I don't know about others, but I really don't want to pay (and likely wouldn't) to put books on my portable device. Other than a few Bibles and a limited number of other books, my main use for Logos on a portable device is for general reading (in bed, on the go, etc). This would mean regular transfer of books on and off of the device. I wouldn't want to pay again for each book.
Assuming I had a iPhone (which I don't since I don't live in the States and don't have access to them... and may not want one even if they were here), I would rather pay more upfront and have access to my full library with no additional cost.
Note: This would encourage me to buy more books since I currently refrain from buying books for general reading since I don't want to sit in front of my computer for endless hours reading. Going mobile would encourage me to buy those books I have wanted to read, but knew I wouldn't read on my computer.
I don't know about others, but I really don't want to pay (and likely wouldn't) to put books on my portable device.
Amen. I would pay $20 ro $30 for an app for our touch, assuming it supports 1 gen Itouch, but I would not pay .50 each resource. This would be a pain to me. No I would pay to RENT books I don't have on occasion, but I would not pay for them.
I agree. I wouldn't use the app if I had to pay each resource that I wanted to use. I am ok with a $15-20 flat one time fee, other than that, not so much.
Or on the other hand, a free Bible-reader, library app would generate quite a bit of buzz...thereby introducing quite a few new people to Logos. Also, it could make marginal users see the benefit of expanding their digital library...this seems like it would be more in line with Logos' business plan (I hope :-))
that was certainly my initial thought [:)]
I don't think there is any way it will be completely free. If they offer the app itself for free, there will be a cost for transferring over the resources, whether that will be a one time cost or a reoccurring smaller fee would depend on what Logos wants to do (since they have already sent it in to Apple, I imagine they've already decided how they are going to go about charging folks).
I wouldn't mind the smaller fees, I use about 20-30 resources on a regular basis so it wouldn't really bother me to pay $.50 each to have them moved over. And if I decide to put more resources on there, $.50 is really not outrageous to have mobile access to a resource. I'm paying for the convenience of having it with me wherever I go.
I understand it could be annoying to have to pay a small fee each time, but would a $.50 charge really be enough for someone to not use the program? I know some of you are saying that, but I find it hard to believe when people do it all the time uploading their personal files to their Kindles (for double that price). And it especially surprises me after reading how much some have spent on resources in the other thread, that despite spending thousands of dollars one would make a $.50 charge the line that could not be crossed.
It would be nice if they gave a nod to us who have bought various packages (such as 50 free transfers for anyone who has Scholars Library, 75 free for Silver, 100 free for Gold). That would be a nice way to recognize those who spent a significant amount on their software in the past. Also, maybe they could consider giving free transfers for resources bought on pre-pub (giving people yet another reason to order things on pre-pub).
I'm sure they put a significant amount of money in the production of the app, and at the very least they'll want to recoup that, so I don't see any way they'll offer it for free. But I guess we'll see soon when it appears in the app store.
they put a significant amount of money in the production of the app, and at the very least they'll want to recoup that, so I don't see any way they'll offer it for free. But I guess we'll see soon when it appears in the app store.
They put more into the libronix application for the pc, but don't charge for that...because it generates books sales.
I hope you are right, however I'll play the doubting Thomas here and believe it when I see it.
I'll play the doubting Thomas here
Phillip,
I'm among those that would not likely pay to move books onto the iPhone, and I would be quite surprised if Logos approached things this way to begin with. They have stressed the license is ours. They would not charge us to move our books around.
As for the cost, though some people have paid lots and lots for their books, (I've paid more than a few pennies but hardly on the high end) that does not mean there is infinite money to spend. Investing in those books was a one-time thing, there was no expectation that I would have to pay anything else to continue using those books. I may have to pay to get the Logos application itself on the iPhone, but I should not have to pay to use books I have already purchased.
I don't have a Kindle so I don't know anything about how transfers work. My understanding is that it's free to transfer Kindle purchases to the Kindle. I do have the Kindle book reader for the iPhone and there as well it is free for me to transfer purchased books.
