Pricing so high on public domain resources?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/196416#Comment_196416

It's sad to have a reputation such as George has on these forums. What good does scriptural knowledge do when you don't put it into practice?

James 3:13

"Who among you is wise and understanding? Let him show by his good behavior his deeds in the gentleness of wisdom."

New American Standard Bible : 1995 update. 1995 (Jas 3:13). LaHabra, CA: The Lockman Foundation.

Are your arguments so feeble that you must now resort to personal attacks? Do you now presume to speak for the entire forum? It seems to me that I recall something about the attitude of a certain pharisee who prayed "God, I thank thee that I am not like other men." It seems he thought himself righteous, but who is said to have left being justified? Is anyone who disagrees with you failing to show "good behavior"? At least I'm not a cry-baby demanding more and more as though it were my right.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/196444#Comment_196444

George and Shawn please consider this, is this really where either you George or you Shawn want this thread to be?

I know my desire is simply to let Logos know that I believe their public domain prices are too high, and my hope is that something can be done to lower them so more folks that live in the poor house can have access to good books and Logos.

Does that make me good and Logos bad? I don't think so!

I really don't think either of you are enjoying where your conversation has taken you. I say this because I have been in these types of converstations before and in the end, they were not what I desired.

Remember the grace that God has given all of us in Christ.

Your brother in Christ,

Jim VanSchoonhoven

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/196444#Comment_196444

George[:O][;)], Please let it go. George,

"It's time to put a smile on your face, laugh a little and go enjoy
yourself. That's what God wants you to do. So, get up off your prayer bench
and put a little lotion on those callouses so they can go away. In the words of
a once popular song, "Enjoy yourself, it's later than you think; Enjoy yourself
while you're still in the pink." Make sure you're not practicing your piety
before men to be seen by them".

george
gfsomsel

… search for truth, hear truth,
learn truth, love truth, speak the
truth, hold the truth,
defend the truth till death.

- Jan Hus

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/196449#Comment_196449

George,
"It's time to put a smile on your face, laugh a little and go enjoy yourself. That's what God wants you to do. So, get up off your prayer bench and put a little lotion on those callouses so they can go away. In the words of a once popular song, "Enjoy yourself, it's later than you think; Enjoy yourself while you're still in the pink." Make sure you're not practicing your piety before men to be seen by them". george
gfsomsel

… search for truth, hear truth,
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
defend the truth till death.

- Jan Hus

Good advice, Ted. I hope to be able to follow it. After all, man's first full day on earth after having had a world prepared for him was literally a stroll in the park. See, I'm smiling ! [:D]

Shawn Drewett

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/196449#Comment_196449

My comments were wrong and I am sorry. I'm afraid I'm guilty of high jacking. I've learned it is very difficult to interact with the forums without eventually being upset by some comment from some one.Nevertheless, what's wrong is wrong. Blessed are the peacemakers..........got to remember this.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/196450#Comment_196450

Good advice, Ted. I hope to be able to follow it. After all, man's first full day on earth after having had a world prepared for him was literally a stroll in the park. See, I'm smiling !

Thanks big guy, much appreciated[8-|].

Ted

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/196452#Comment_196452

My comments were wrong and I am sorry. I'm afraid I'm guilty of high jacking. I've learned it is very difficult to interact with the forums without eventually being upset by some comment from some one.Nevertheless, what's wrong is wrong. Blessed are the peacemakers..........got to remember this.

I won't say "Forget it" since that is precisely what none of us should do, but let's see if we can't bury the hatchett somewhere other than one another's backs. Peace, bro

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/196378#Comment_196378

I hope all has come out well.

Yes. He was healed and has enjoyed good health for years. My point was good things are done by imperfect actors who may not always do it the way we think best. Many would object to paying a higher cost for their own consumptions even when it benefits the truly helpless. If I have to pay a higher price for Logos PD titles to see the many good free projects provided to others, then so be it. I will likely never get an academic discount, seminary scholarship, iPhone or many other Logos freebies. I will not begrudge Logos blessing others.

The politics and the economics of Piracy is more complicated than just saying, "They are sinners." Simply telling them, "no, that's bad" is not going to solve it. If you study the economics of piracy, when options that are affordable are offered, piracy goes way down...

Only because people will sell out a birthright of good conscience for a soup bowl of stolen software. Matthew 16:26

When a believer justifies stealing because he wants ("needs") it, the sin of theft was preceded by the sin of covetousness. Why not just justify adultery, murder, deceit in the name of "needing" something God says we have no claim to? Have we not seen several famous preachers leave their wives and steal another man's wife. Romans 6:1-11

Remember - Some of those "Workers of iniquity" you are condemning for using a pirated copy of windows or some bible program have sat in jail numerous times- for years - for their faith.

I am not in a position to condemn anyone. God is the one who sets the standard.Psalm 51:6 No man has a right to lower that standard. "Workers of iniquity" is better translated those who practice lawlessness. If some believers jailed for their faith are stealing software, they are right where they belong. Romans 13:4 1 Peter 3:14-17

In the parable of the Pearl of Great Price the merchant "sold all that he had, and bought it." Matthew 13:45-46 If I value Logos resources as a pearl of great price, I willingly sell what I have to purchase it. (Incidentally, that is what I have been doing the past year or two.)

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/196416#Comment_196416

It's sad to have a reputation such as George has on these forums.

Comments deleted because of subsequent posts.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/196486#Comment_196486

(edited to stay on topic) [A]

FYI: Catena Aurea: Commentary on the Four Gospels (8 vols.) just shipped this morning.

I can't wait to get The Works of John Owen (17 vols.) That is one PD title I missed in Pre-Pub. I did land his Hebrews commentary.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/196449#Comment_196449

I wish folks will just let this thread die. I think both sides have made their point, no need any longer to stoke the fire. When brothers have apologised or agreed to disagree I think It is best to move on.

Blessing

Ted

Edit

David Ames

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/196495#Comment_196495

What we need is a thread editor

There were many very good points made here

If only we could just keep those points

Derek

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/196482#Comment_196482

Only because people will sell out a birthright of good conscience for a soup bowl of stolen software. Matthew 16:26

When a believer justifies stealing because he wants ("needs") it, the sin of theft was preceded by the sin of covetousness. Why not just justify adultery, murder, deceit in the name of "needing" something God says we have no claim to? Have we not seen several famous preachers leave their wives and steal another man's wife. Romans 6:1-11

I am not in a position to condemn anyone. God is the one who sets the standard.Psalm 51:6 No man has a right to lower that standard. "Workers of iniquity" is better translated those who practice lawlessness. If some believers jailed for their faith are stealing software, they are right where they belong. Romans 13:4 1 Peter 3:14-17

In the parable of the Pearl of Great Price the merchant "sold all that he had, and bought it." Matthew 13:45-46 If I value Logos resources as a pearl of great price, I willingly sell what I have to purchase it. (Incidentally, that is what I have been doing the past year or two.)

Again, I agree. Its wrong. So why are you trying to convince me?

Many in this forum love using that Bible as a weapon against their brother, but many in this forum need to work on applying what it says.

Proverbs 4:5-7, John 3:17. Oh... James 2:25

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/196612#Comment_196612

Many in this forum love using that Bible as a weapon against their brother, but many in this forum need to work on applying what it says.

I disagree. It is not "many" who need to work on applying what it says. It is all.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/196329#Comment_196329

I frequently notice threads like this one on the logos forums. Usually my conclusion is the same: many people in ministry simply do not have a business mindset or understand business thinking. People are shocked that Logos would charge more than might be considered reasonable or that Logos claims outrageously inflated "print value" or "retail value" figures in their marketing.

Understand that Logos is not a ministry. Logos exists to make a profit. From my vantage point Logos does not operate to see the Great Commission fulfilled or to see impoverished pastors receive better training and resources.

Products are worth what people are willing to pay. If Logos wanted to increase their profits they could find the highest amount people were willing to pay for each individual resource and price it at or slightly above that amount. (Hint: I think they do just that).

It should come as no surprise that certain resources are more expensive than others of equal size, copyright status, and tagging workload. You aren't paying Logos an hourly wage for the time their developers spend.

Logos doesn't need to justify its prices to the masses. If the masses get fed up enough they will stop doing business with Logos, and some do. But where else do you turn? Personally I wish there were a more affordable company offering software and titles like Logos that also had a vision to see the Great Commission fulfilled through their products but there isn't. So for me I just suck it up, turn my head and hold my nose when it's time to order books. We're (many of us) Americans, we do this all the time. Some orders are worse than others in this regard. For me, package deals are a happy thing, but buying individual resources is not so happy, especially when I pay for them twice after a while when I upgrade packages.

If you want to do something about those poor pastors with no training (and hopefully you are thinking about places where there aren't even pastors, a church, or Scriptures at all) you should ask the church why they aren't doing more to accomplish God's purposes among the least reached peoples of the world.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/196671#Comment_196671

If you want to do something about those poor pastors with no training (and hopefully you are thinking about places where there aren't even pastors, a church, or Scriptures at all) you should ask the church why they aren't doing more to accomplish God's purposes among the least reached peoples of the world.

That is pretty much what I have been thinking. I recall that the Obamination was attempting to claim that Jesus was attempting to encourage us to help our neighbor by asking "Am I my brother's keeper." Aside from the fact that Jesus didn't say that (ever hear of Cain?), that was not a government task but an individual one. Similarly, it is not the job of a business have as its main object to help needy pastors. Its job is to produce goods and services at a reasonable price at which it can continue in business and grow. If you wish to be your brother's keeper (admirable ambition), do it yourself or form a group to do it. If you don't have resources to invest in obtaining software for needy pastors, volunteer your time and effort to move the project forward. Don't just sit around and complain about it. It is your job, it is my job, it is everyone's job to help others.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/196673#Comment_196673

However, I am asking do we also have a right to point out what we think are prices that are out of line, I believe giving feed back to Logos is one of the purposes of these forms. And posting it here may help others that feel the same way to also let Logos know how they feel and how people they come in contact with feel.

These forms are a little jaded. They are a little bit like having a yes man tell you what you want to hear rather than telling you what people are really saying.

I also believe from my own experience with Logos and others that I am in contact with that their high public domain prices turn a lot of people off, this is sad to me, since I believe it is the best study resource system on the market.

I know it might be selfish but I would like to see more believers using Logos and I believe lower prices would help that to come true.

I also believe that getting the poor involved with Logos through cheap package deals would lead to more sales of Logos copyrighted books later on, when people see the value of the system and need a copyrighted book they want it in Logos. Look at how many of us have good books in other systems, but once we see the value of the Logos system we pay the price to get the book in Logos. This only happens because we have used the Logos program and see the value of the program.

I would love to see Logos offer dirt cheap pdf files of all their public domain books. They could still make a some money on them and get millions started using computers with bible related books. Then take them the next step and show them how Logos helps you get some much more out of those public domain books. Do this by offering low price public domain packages. It doesn't take a lot of smarts to see the difference between a book's usefulness in Logos compared to the same book in a pdf file. Once they discover this they will desire to move their pdf books into logos as they can afford to do it. At the same time they will see the usefulness of putting copyrighted books into Logos. I believe Logos could make money at each step and help a lot more people.

However, I can't wait for Logos to see this and decide to do it, so I work with the best that I can. I give away 100's of copies of a free program called The Word, it allows you to make and search collections, make your own verse by verse commentary, or topic by topic comments. It allows you to make your own books and tag them and many other features. It has over 1200 free public domain modules on the internet.

It is a great free product, but it is not Logos but it is the best I can find for meeting the needs of those that want to study but don't have much money. And now they are starting to have copyrighted books that can be added at very good prices. Soon they will even have BDAG, but I am afraid it won't be cheap.

As I have the money I also give away copies of the PDF public domain books that I have.

I still believe that Logos public domain books cost too much and that in the long run that is hurting them to get their books and system in the market.

I really don't mean to pick on Logos and did not feel like I was, but maybe I need to reconsider.

Your brother in Christ,

Jim VanSchoonhoven

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/196678#Comment_196678

I also believe that getting the poor involved with Logos through cheap package deals would lead to more sales of Logos copyrighted books later on, when people see the value of the system and need a copyrighted book they want it in Logos. Look at how many of us have good books in other systems, but once we see the value of the Logos system we pay the price to get the book in Logos. This only happens because we have used the Logos program and see the value of the program.

I would love to see Logos offer dirt cheap pdf files of all their public domain books. They could still make a some money on them and get millions started using computers with bible related books. Then take them the next step and show them how Logos helps you get some much more out of those public domain books. Do this by offering low price public domain packages. It doesn't take a lot of smarts to see the difference between a book's usefulness in Logos compared to the same book in a pdf file. Once they discover this they will desire to move their pdf books into logos as they can afford to do it. At the same time they will see the usefulness of putting copyrighted books into Logos. I believe Logos could make money at each step and help a lot more people.

Having Logos do it is the wrong approach. I don't think "dirt cheap" is the best idea. I would favor some form of foundation which would underwrite the purchase of software. It should never be given away free of charge. When something is received too easily it tends to not be appreciated. If certain items would cost a year's pay, a week's pay might be appropriate. A week's pay might be a real sacrifice to someone who is at or near poverty level, but they will appreciate what they have received then. Don't shift from the Obamination's idea of having big daddy government do it to having big daddy Logos do it. It is your and my responsibility to be our brother's keeper, not some organization.

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/196688#Comment_196688

George

1) Please keep your party politics and your personal attacks away from here! I don't think you want to know what I think about the guys you obviously vote for, and their politics.

2a) I never appreciate something I've had to pay dearly for anywhere near as much as I would appreciate it if it had been free. In fact, to me the value of something tend to decrease pretty exponentially to the increase in price. Most of the really expensive stuff I have is just gathering dust. It's the cheap stuff I'm using all the time. I would have appreciated Logos a million times more if it had been free.

2b) I'll make sure to ask Christ to charge you a very high price for your salvation, since obviously you won't appreciate it otherwise. A few hundred years in Purgatury, will that be enough to make you value it? Or should I make it a few thousand?

Tony Thomas

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/196736#Comment_196736

I think that it should be mentioned that there are free options with public domain resources available to people in developing countries. For example, eSword has distributed 9+ million copies to over 200 countries. And there are other free Sword project variants like Xiphos, Bibletime, etc.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/196495#Comment_196495

Phil Gons

Posted: Tue, Jan 19 2010 11:23 AM

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Milford Charles Murray

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/196739#Comment_196739

Thank you, Ted!!!!!! *smile*

Peace to you!

and! to all!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/196741#Comment_196741

George, I am not sure I understand why you think I am looking to big brother Logos to do all of this, I am not, I am hoping that Logos will become a better resource that I can use in the ministry that I am involved in.

In Christ,

Jim VanSchoonhoven

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/196736#Comment_196736

the guys you obviously vote for,

There is no clue given as to who George is for. Disliking one does not mean we support the others.
"I believe in the two-party system. [B] One party on Friday night & the other on Saturday night." [D]

to me the value of something tend to decrease pretty exponentially to the increase in price. Most of the really expensive stuff I have is just gathering dust. It's the cheap stuff I'm using all the time.

My friends agree with you. I don't. You see, I do not mind loaning them my cheap tools and they seem to cherish them enough to not return them. But my expensive Klein tools don't get loaned out. Nor will my friends buy their own tools.

2b) I'll make sure to ask Christ to charge you

hoot! If I didn't recognize sarcasm I would say way too much about this one. But we all know we are not our own. We are bought with a price. And what an "unspeakable" gift that was. (Thank you for reminding me of the wonderful grace of Jesus. My mind was focused on my new grand daughter that is being born this morning. [W] )

addendum: Almost forgot. George, restrain yourself. [;)]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/196792#Comment_196792

Tony, there are other free resources out there on the market, and before I gave out the Word, I gave out E-Sword, however neither of these resources would compare to being able to get people involved in Logos. You can do so much more with your cheap Public domain books in Logos than you can with those resources in The Word or E-Sword.

Not only could you do more now with Logos, but in the future, you would not need to learn another system you could just add copyrighted materials to Logos as you needed them. My hope is that Logos will see how they could improve by making their material affordable for more people.

On the other hand I am not going to wait for them to catch on, I am using the resources I have to help others. But it only takes a few minutes to try and make Logos aware of what they are missing out on and how they could be a bigger blessing to more people.

There is a need out there, is God going to use Logos to help us fulfill that need or something else!!!

In Christ,

Jim VanSchoonhoven

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/196800#Comment_196800

It seems we're reaching a consensus on two important points:

Logos is better than other Bible software
Logos is sometimes more expensive than other Bible software

I don't know about you, but I think I might be able to spot a link [;)]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/196798#Comment_196798

Thank you for reminding me of the wonderful grace of Jesus. My mind was focused on my new grand daughter that is being born this morning.

Congrads gramps. Aren't grandkids marvelous ! My granddaughter is a sweetheart (she's also a very smart stinker).

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/196800#Comment_196800

Not only could you do more now with Logos, but in the future, you would not need to learn another system you could just add copyrighted materials to Logos as you needed them. My hope is that Logos will see how they could improve by making their material affordable for more people.

Logos business is to produce a product that customers want and will purchase in order that the company might make a profit which they can use to pay expenses and improve the business (I really hate the term "grow the business" -- as though it were lettuce). Why should you attempt to put the onus on them to make this happen? They could put themselves out of business by what you are suggesting so that all of us would be poorer as a result. If this is really what God has laid on your heart, you should do something about it. I suggest you might set up a foundation to underwrite the purchase of Logos software by needy pastors in 3rd world countries. If you do that, I imagine that there are others who would be willing to assist in that effort.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/196836#Comment_196836

George, you are a funny guy!!! I nearly laughed my head off when I saw your comments!

In Christ,

Jim VanSchoonhoven

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/196866#Comment_196866

George, you are a funny guy!!! I nearly laughed my head off when I saw your comments!

In Christ,

Jim VanSchoonhoven

But if you were replying to what I think you were, I was dead serious. http://community.logos.com/forums/AddPost.aspx?ReplyToPostID=196836&Quote=False

I'm not always totally serious (I almost said "sober", but I don't want to give the wrong impression).

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/196870#Comment_196870

George, yes that was what I was talking about, and that is why I said you were a funny guy, and yes I knew you were serious, that is why it is so funny!

Your brother in Christ,

Jim VanSchoonhoven

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/196911#Comment_196911

I knew you were serious, that is why it is so funny!

In a perfect world ......... Acts 4:32-35

I don't know what everybody on the forums does for a living. But If the employees at Logos were provided all of our services and products for free, maybe they would be in a position to give away the software to everyone for free.

On second thought, we could never all agree on which Apostles we need to turn over our wealth to. Or even if there are contemporary Apostles. [6]

It is not humorous to suggest I give away all my services and property. It is a serious matter of authority, jurisdiction & worship.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/196912#Comment_196912

Matthew, I just want to point out, that I have not seen anyone say that Logos should give their services away for free, in fact I see and hear very little complaining about the prices of most of their copyrighted material, the topic of this thread deals with one area and it is the area that I feel actually hurts their reputation.

I know it is late in this conversation, but I have to say I have a lot of contact with folks that do use software for bible studies and I mean 100's if not 1000's of personal contacts and their main problem with Logos is their high public domain price.

I am a little shocked that folks like you and George never run into this problem, but then again I spend a lot of time teaching folks how to use many different types of software to study their bibles. Many people have no idea how many people have been given bible software and have no idea how to use it. It is a joy to show believers how to use their software and show them other options.

In Christ,

Jim VanSchoonhoven

Paul Golder

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/196739#Comment_196739

Please
abide by the following guidelines as you interact on our forums

Accordance, Bible Explorer, Biblesoft, BibleWorks, Laridian, Olive Tree, Quickverse, WORDsearch...

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/196960#Comment_196960

the topic of this thread deals with one area and it is the area that I feel actually hurts their reputation.

If the issue was only about access to public domain works, there would be no debate at all. Almost every PD work available in Logos is available from some other source. The reason people are clamoring is they want the Logos front end and features. That is not public domain. No one has a right to get it for free. The issue really is some people want to have the best while paying for the least.

If everyone has a problem with Logos' pricing of PD titles why not criticize The Gideons for not placing leather bound Study Bibles in every hotel room?

The recent massive migration of PD works from the Pre-Pub department to the Community Pricing is a positive development. There are 72 titles in the CP list, only one which is currently over $50. Most resources in the CP program run $2~$4 per volume. That is not price gouging in my opinion. The few PD titles that remain in the Pre-Pub list are quite popular even at the higher cost. There are apparently enough people who think they are worth the asking price.

I would love to see the immense Logos resource library made available to the widest user base possible. The quickest way to make that happen is to get everyone on board, working together to underwrite the further development of resources and finessing of the program itself.

And, We all look forward to the Personal Book Builder coming to Logos 4

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/197002#Comment_197002

Matthew, we disagree on the motives behind these statements. I know for a fact that the people I talk to about the high cost of the Logos public domain books are not after the getting the core program for free.

First off most of them don't even understand that the Logos system is better, they have never even worked with it, secondly they are not against the Logos mark-up on the copyrighted books.

But due to the high cost they are not even interested in Logos. Their motives are based on the fact that they think the mark-up on public domain books are just too high.

Matthew, do you actually personally know a lot of people doing bible study with software? If so is that where you got the idea that the people that want less expensive public domain books are really just after the core software? If so you run with a much different crowd then I do.

These conversations have made me very sad, and at the same time thankful that I am not waiting for Logos to lower their public domain prices, it sounds like it would be the end of Logos. I wonder if it is really that serious.

By the way I agree the latest community pricing deals have been a good turn of events, but they only effect a very small part of the Logos community. The numbers that are educated about the program are very very low. On top of that after those deals are put in pre-pub the deals are forever gone. I recently Had a deal where I paid 14.00 for a set of books (a great buy) but one I will never be able to share with my friends that will come to Logos over the years since the pre-pub price was around 59.95 and the current price is now 99.95. http://www.logos.com/product/5216/catena-aurea-commentary-on-the-four-gospels This is an example of why some people think that the public domain books might be a little too much. But others make it sound like at a lower price Logos would not make it.

In Christ,

Jim VanSchoonhoven

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/197023#Comment_197023

Their motives are based on the fact that they think the mark-up on public domain books are just too high.

Jim,

Can you clarify? What percentage of sales from a copyrighted Logos book do you think goes to the author? Because I presume that it's that percentage that you think a non-copyrighted book should be discounted by.

Mark

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/197023#Comment_197023

First off most of them don't even understand that the Logos system is better, they have never even worked with it, secondly they are not against the Logos mark-up on the copyrighted books.

But due to the high cost they are not even interested in Logos. Their motives are based on the fact that they think the mark-up on public domain books are just too high.

Then you need to explain to them that it isn't a question of "mark-up" over some hypothetical price that Logos has to pay to acquire the rights to the books (which would be zero for public domain works). It is primarily the cost of converting them into Logos books that makes them so expensive, and it isn't any different for public domain works (in fact it's often more because of the poor quality of the original digital texts that are available on CCEL and other places). Logos charges the same amount on copyrighted works as they do on public domain works of comparable length, but they have to pay a royalty on the latter to the publishers who own the copyright. So yes, they do get to keep a bigger chunk of the price on the public domain works. For us users it might seem incomprehensible, because we can supposedly find those same works free online. But what we're finding online is a far cry from the quality we are getting in Logos, with all the typos fixed and all the linking put in. I think people are comparing apples to oranges here and getting disappointed. I'm not sure there is any way to convince them that it's worth getting these works in Logos. What's really happening is they are NOT marking up the copyrighted works as much as they could/should to compensate for the royalties, because nobody would pay what they are really worth. Thus in comparison, we're having to swallow what feels like an awfully large mark-up on public domain works because it's somewhat understandable when we think about how much work goes into making them into Logos books. So I guess you could say the PD works are subsidizing the cost of all of the other stuff Logos does for us (free software engine and free upgrades forever on it; free product support; free updates of resources forever once we buy them; great sales from time to time), more than the copyrighted works are. That is a business model they have found works for them, and they'll probably be sticking with it, despite all the potential users they might be missing out on by not pricing the PD works lower.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/197050#Comment_197050

Mark, I think I should point one thing out to you, the amount that would go to the authur has very little to do with the amount Logos pays for a copyrighted book, it is the amount that the publisher gets that usually includes a small amount for the author that counts.

I also want to point out to both you and Rosie how little actual real figure costs we have on any of these books. However we do know that Logos has told us they try to use the community pricing to pay for the cost of getting those books ready to produce. That means their basic product is paid for by community pricing.

Dealing with publishers is never the same and all we can do is guess, but you can be sure everyone is not the same everytime, however the costs of the pd books for the most part start off with everything alread paid for by community pricing.

And Rosie I would ask you where you get the information that PD books have to subsidize the cost of all the other stuff Logos does for us. Are you sure that both copyrighted books and PD books don't subsidize all the other stuff with the a larger % coming from PD books???

One thing is for sure this thread makes me glad that I am not waiting on Logos to reach the poor market, and another thing it has done, I will no longer feel bad about getting others into other programs because I don't want Logos to be hurt from trying to reach them. I guess it will be better for them and Logos.

I am beating a dead horse and my arms are too tired to continue! Grace to all of you and peace!

In Christ,

Jim VnSchoonhoven

Bobby Terhune

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/197023#Comment_197023

First off most of them don't even understand that the Logos system is better, they have never even worked with it, secondly they are not against the Logos mark-up on the copyrighted books.

But due to the high cost they are not even interested in Logos. Their motives are based on the fact that they think the mark-up on public domain books are just too high.

Jim,

I have tried to introduce many people to Logos over the years, people in my Sunday School class, people that I teach that are taking bible courses, and fellow pastors. The most common complaint that needs to be overcome is the cost of getting started with a decent package, the public domain stuff never comes up. I think your friends mislead you in saying their main problem is the public domain works, I don't think they will pay for the copyrighted material either, if they are poor. Also without a base package the public domain works don't really do much on their own to show off the power of Logos, which is the reason everything does cost more. Bob P has himself stated that there are cheaper alternatives out there for the market you feel needs to be reached. Why do you feel Logos Has to reach this market?

You are right that community pricing pays for the basic cost to produce a product, but that leaves no profit to pay for customer service or for the free engine Logos provides us. Just look at you recent example of Thomas Aquinas book Catena Aurea, I was excited by the extensive linking to my other works on the early church fathers so I can read Aquinas's quotes in context, try and do that with one of your free packages. But then again I don't know many people who are in my church who would read Aquinas even if I gave it to them for Christmas for free[:D]

I would be interested in your perception of your friends library, how many books do most own? Most people who balk at buying bible software are people in my experience who don't read very much. Bible study if nothing else require someone who is willing to read and think.

Tony Thomas

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/197050#Comment_197050

The thing that must be remembered is that if public domain resources don't sell at a higher price, no revenue is produced. The investment has already been made but does not produce a return. We must assume, then, that enough people are interested in the public domain resources in Logos format to pay the asking price. And what has not been mentioned is that many of these resources are included in various base packages so they can be had very affordably if you are willing to pony up for the base package in which they reside.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/196911#Comment_196911

George, yes that was what I was talking about, and that is why I said you were a funny guy, and yes I knew you were serious, that is why it is so funny!

Your brother in Christ,

Jim VanSchoonhoven

I'm still serious about that. "It's better to light a candle than to curse the darkness." Set up your foundation.