Security and Privacy Concern about Logos4 Phonning Home
Comments
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Jonathan Burke said:
Logos have made it clear time and time again that their program is not intended to be a repository for personal and private data, and have warned against using it for that purpose. It's that simple.
Hi Jonathan,
This is just my opinion, but this is the area, as it relates to prayer requests, where I see Logos speaking out of both sides of their mouths. They say the program is not intended to be a place for us to store personal or private data. My question is, "Isn't prayer requests personal information?" Speaking from a clergy perspective, prayer requests that clergy receive can also be very private. Therefore, Logos designed this program to store prayer requests that we receive, and then they turn around and tell us not to put in any private or personal data. This does not make any sense to me, and thus why I say Logos is speaking out of both sides of their mouth. Again, this is just my opinion.
Jonathan, you also bring up another good question, what is 'valuable data?' I am going back to use prayer request as an example. Prayer request do not contain bank account numbers or passwords. Therefore, does that imply that this data is not 'valuable?' I personally believe this information should be considered as being extremely valuable data, and I believe other people would also consider this data valuable. For an example, let us say that I have in my prayer list "Linda and John Smith are getting a divorce" and "Mary Jones' husband died." This information is not only valuable to me. This information is also valuable to the Smiths, to the Jones, and to anyone who makes a living by scamming people who are in these life circumstances.
I couldn't agree with you more when you said, "My valuable data stays on my local hard drive, and is backed up with an external hard drive which is then relocated. I don't want it in the cloud, because I value it." I value this information, what I have stored in L4, and this is why I do not want my data in the cloud. This is why I have turned sync and the call home function for L4 off.
I also have the sync and call home function turned off for another reason, and this reason comes from possible copyright issues. Most clergy have a file cabinet (or two or three or four) full of resources that she/he might think will be useful someday for a sermon. These resources could come from a newspaper article, a page from a journal, or be a photocopy of a page in a book. I have done something similar with my note files. I have several note files that I store information from various internet sites (workingpreacher.org, textweek.com, crossings.org, and goodpreacher.com to name a few). All of this information is copyrighted, and I do not have permission to distribute their works of art. Therefore, I do not want these note files to be sent to cloud because I feel that this would violate copyright laws, (I would be distributing their copyright items without their approval).
Because I have turned these settings off, I must now deal with the repercussions of turning off setting. When these settings are turned off, not only do we must manually check for updates for the program, we cannot download any new books. We must purchase the CD and pay the additional postage for the CD. This is, of course, only works for books that we can order a CD for. If the book is only available by download, we cannot purchase the book. Because I cannot purchase any downloadable books, I consider this program as being broken.
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Jonathan Burke said:
I don't believe that's true. I can see many people understand very well how valuable data about you is. I do, which is why I don't store it in Logos. Why would I want to store it in Logos anyway? I have other programs specifically for that purpose, which are far more secure. What I have difficulty understanding is why anyone who really values data about themselves would want to upload it to the cloud. My valuable data stays on my local hard drive, and is backed up with an external hard drive which is then relocated. I don't want it in the cloud, because I value it.
You don't understand the power of data mining, so you are simply failing to properly assess the risks involved. The individual pieces of information that you store in Logos might not seem very valuable. The information you store in Logos, combined with other information, can produce information about you that would consider private and personal. Your misunderstanding of the problem doesn't mean the problem simply doesn't exist.
Tom also brings up very good points on copyrights, and the prayer list specifically, just in the last post. Copyright is a rather contentious issue with lots of people in the world, something that's not legally been sorted out in the cloud --in fact, there are a lot of legal issues that haven't been sorted out. Where there is legal ambiguity, caution is called for.
And again, you completely misapplied and misunderstood my analogies. And again, I'm done with this.
Russ
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tom collinge said:
Therefore, I do not want these note files to be sent to cloud because I feel that this would violate copyright laws, (I would be distributing their copyright items without their approval).
This is an interesting thought. I'd always thought of off-site storage as still personal use as long as I was the only individual with access. I think I'll come to the same conclusion again, but you are making me reconsider.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Russ White said:
You don't understand the power of data mining, so you are simply failing to properly assess the risks involved. The individual pieces of information that you store in Logos might not seem very valuable. The information you store in Logos, combined with other information, can produce information about you that would consider private and personal. Your misunderstanding of the problem doesn't mean the problem simply doesn't exist.
Russ I can assure you I understand the power of data mining. I'm an information professional by occupation. I used Logos as a case study for my Masters degree, and I'm using them as a case study for my PhD thesis. I have never disagreed with you that information we store in Logos, combined with other information, can produce information that I would consider private and personal. I have agreed with that. I have also explained that this is why I don't upload that information to the cloud. You even quote me saying exactly that.
Russ White said:Tom also brings up very good points on copyrights, and the prayer list specifically, just in the last post. Copyright is a rather contentious issue with lots of people in the world, something that's not legally been sorted out in the cloud --in fact, there are a lot of legal issues that haven't been sorted out. Where there is legal ambiguity, caution is called for.
There is no breach of copyright by uploading the data Tom mentioned as copyrighted, to the cloud. Uploading it to the could does not distribute it publicly, nor does it breach copyright law. It simply moves it to a location which is potentially vulnerable (but less vulnerable than where it was on your computer). It is not more a breach of copyright than backing up your data on an external hard drive.
Win 7 x64 | Core i7 3770K | 32GB RAM | GTX 750 Ti 2GB | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (system) | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (Logos) | WD Black 1.5 TB (storage) | WD Red 3 TB x 3 (storage) | HP w2408h 24" | First F301GD Live 30"
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tom collinge said:
This is just my opinion, but this is the area, as it relates to prayer requests, where I see Logos speaking out of both sides of their mouths. They say the program is not intended to be a place for us to store personal or private data. My question is, "Isn't prayer requests personal information?" Speaking from a clergy perspective, prayer requests that clergy receive can also be very private. Therefore, Logos designed this program to store prayer requests that we receive, and then they turn around and tell us not to put in any private or personal data. This does not make any sense to me, and thus why I say Logos is speaking out of both sides of their mouth. Again, this is just my opinion.
Tom, I appreciate what you're saying and I understand your concern. This particular issue has been discussed before. A number of people pointed out that not all prayer lists are private. Both Logos representatives and other forum members pointed out that Logos provides us with the option of storing prayer lists in Logos 4, and that if anyone has privacy concerns about the vulnerability of that information then they shouldn't upload their private prayer lists to the cloud. A number of us have made the point that we're entirely happy uploading some prayer lists but not others, so those we don't want uploaded we simply don't store in Logos 4.
This is not Logos talking out of both sides of their mouths. It's Logos saying 'We've given you the option of storing prayer lists in Logos 4, but since these prayer lists will be backed up to the cloud you shouldn't store private prayer lists in Logos 4 if you are doubtful of the security of the cloud'. This does not in the least imply that this data is not valuable. On the contrary, it reinforces the value of the data.
It should be remembered that when your data is backed up to the cloud, this does not mean it automatically becomes available to anyone and everyone (reading lists are an exception). People here are talking as if as soon as you move your data to the cloud everyone in the world has access to it, and people can browse your notes and personal prayer lists at will. I don't know why they think that. Perhaps they misunderstand what the cloud actually is.
Nor is our data uploaded to an completely unsecured location. It is uploaded to Amazon's servers, which are recognized in the industry as well secured. In fact their servers are more secure than the average home computer.Your home computer is more vulnerable than their servers.
By warning people that storing personal information on the cloud is inherently risky, Logos are taking the absolutely most conservative and paranoid stance, specifically out of concern for their customers. The fact is that neither your computer nor my computer are as well secured as Amazon's cloud servers, yet both you and I feel our data is safer on our own computer. One reason for this is that Amazon's servers are more likely to be a target for hackers than your or my computer. But this doesn't change the fact that when our information is uploaded to the cloud, it isn't publicly distributed and it isn't uploaded to an unsecured location.
As for copyright concerns, the use of the cloud by Logos to back up your data does not breach copyright. The copyrighted information in your notes is backed up to a remote location. It is not distributed publicly. This does not breach copyright, because you are not breaching the terms of fair use; you are not distributing their data at all. This is no different to backing up your data on a local hard drive.
It should also be pointed out that your decision to switch off the download feature of Logos does not constitute the program being broken. it means you've chosen not to download books. Choosing to use a feature of a program does not mean the program is broken, even if that feature has its inconveniences. In reality there is no reason for you to switch off the internet connection. You are not distributing copyrighted material, and no one is forcing you to store private prayer lists in Logos if you believe that Amazon's servers are insufficiently secure.
Win 7 x64 | Core i7 3770K | 32GB RAM | GTX 750 Ti 2GB | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (system) | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (Logos) | WD Black 1.5 TB (storage) | WD Red 3 TB x 3 (storage) | HP w2408h 24" | First F301GD Live 30"
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Thank you Jonathan for your well reasoned input.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Wow! I have read through most of this v e r y l o n g thread and I am amazed at some people's ability to reason (or lack thereof). To me this is very simple. If you are concerned about the security and privacy of your information, then don't store it on L4. I personally don't have concerns with this issue so it doesn't matter as much to me as it does to some of you. That's not to say that I don't respect your position. I do. It's just that you are using software that has been designed for a specific purpose and it seems that you are trying to go beyond the scope of this purpose (bible study).
Mark has shown that when you turn internet and updates off, L4 does not phone home. So those that want to store personal info shouldn't be alarmed about the security of their info if these settings are turned off. Again, I don't understand what the problem is. If L4 isn't phoning home when the settings are off, then there is no security issue.
As for the problem of not being able to download new books when these settings are turned off, how about this. Can you not turn internet off and updating off, and then manually enter the command to update resources without your personal files being synced? That would seem to solve the problem (at least in my understanding of things).
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MJ. Smith said:tom collinge said:
Therefore, I do not want these note files to be sent to cloud because I feel that this would violate copyright laws, (I would be distributing their copyright items without their approval).
This is an interesting thought. I'd always thought of off-site storage as still personal use as long as I was the only individual with access. I think I'll come to the same conclusion again, but you are making me reconsider.
I would say that just having my information backed up via the cloud is okay. For me, the issue comes from the fact that I have lost control of the data once it has been moved to the cloud. Why is this an issue with me? Let me first tell you a story. Before they published the sermons our sermons, I told Logos that they did not have my permission to publish anything from me that they might get from the sermon addin for L3. I made sure that I always clicked on the box to say 'do not send my data to Logos.' Apparently, I forgot to do this once, and almost ALL of my sermons were online. It took a week and three or four emails from me to get my items removed from their servers. Because of this, I have stopped using the sermon addin, and I lost trust in Logos.
What does this have to do with copyright? Because I have lost control of my data that is out in the clouds, what is preventing the data from being shared? Today, the data is not being shared. But, there has been talk about adding the ability to share our notes with other L4 users. For the most part, I think this would be a good thing. But what is preventing this data from not being shared if this ability is someday added? Based on my experience with the sermon addin, nothing, and it would by default be made available to the world to see. Because some (most) of my note files have copyright information, I believe that this would be a violation of copyright laws.
Jonathan Burke said:It should also be pointed out that your decision to switch off the download feature of Logos does not constitute the program being broken. it means you've chosen not to download books.
No, I did not chose to not download books. I chose not to have my data sent to Logos' servers, and because I decided not to send my data to Logos' servers, I am being forced not to download books.
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tom collinge said:
Apparently, I forgot to do this once, and almost ALL of my sermons were online. It took a week and three or four emails from me to get my items removed from their servers. Because of this, I have stopped using the sermon addin, and I lost trust in Logos.
Now this I relate to [:)] I was constantly forgetting to click the box. I got so at the end of the day, I would go into the Logos site and delete everything I'd accidentally uploaded. Yes, I thought because these were shared files when uploaded that the default should have been "no". While it didn't work the way I wanted, I had no problem deleting the files and placed the fault on myself not Logos. After all, Logos had said uploads would be shared and they were.
In the current environment Logos has said they will not be shared. I believe them as they could have a tremendous legal liability if it were untrue.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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tom collinge said:Jonathan Burke said:
It should also be pointed out that your decision to switch off the download feature of Logos does not constitute the program being broken. it means you've chosen not to download books.
No, I did not chose to not download books. I chose not to have my data sent to Logos' servers, and because I decided not to send my data to Logos' servers, I am being forced not to download books.
That seems to be a bug. I'm going to report it as such as see what Logos say (manual commands such as update now and sync now override the Use Internet setting, but it doesn't work for update resources).
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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I would like to add my 2c to this topic.
I do not like having any personal data stored on anyone elses' servers. The reasons are my own and do not require my explanation to you in this thread.
I have been trying to decide whether to update to L4 or not, and I guess this just made the decision for me. Let me simply say that I was shocked to find that my data was being sent to Logos servers without my knowledge (ok, it was in the EULA, but most never read that document any more... they are so long and verbose... I know I probably should read each eula for each of the 100 programs installed on my machine, but I have work to do...)....
As long as there is no CHOICE to store my notes on the Logos servers or not, I will choose to stay with Libronix 3...
I sincerely hope that they provide an option in the future...
Till then, it's L3 for me..
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Derek said:
As long as there is no CHOICE to store my notes on the Logos servers or not, I will choose to stay with Libronix 3...
Derek, there is a uservoice request concerning this. If this is important for you, please vote for this request: http://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-4/suggestions/660833-add-an-option-that-allows-a-user-not-to-upload-the?ref=title
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Derek said:
As long as there is no CHOICE to store my notes on the Logos servers or not, I will choose to stay with Libronix 3...
That's certainly your choice, and L3 is a great Bible study program.
The other alternative is to do what many others have done, namely, to use a 3rd party note taking program. The reason many use a 3rd party program is that the Logos note taking system has some limitations that some find cumbersome. There's a partial list in an old thread:
http://community.logos.com/forums/p/3548/35924.aspx#35924
To access your 3rd party notes, you could create a list of them in your favorites, and or a short note telling you where the external note is located.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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Of course, Derek, you CAN have the best of both worlds. Run L3 AND L4! I use L3 as a reader, including lots of highlighting, notes and more. No slowdown and pretty fancy notes too. Runs like a Turbo-L4. Then I use L4 for all my 'research' tools ...lexicons, interlinears, apparatus and so forth. Then later, if Logos ever decides they don't own everything I write/highlight, I can import them from L3 to L4. Bob can continue being happy with his vision. And I'm happy with my high-speed Bible software.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Thanks, I am a OneNote junkie, but I love having my notes in my bible program, and the little indications that I have a note attached with a passage...
Logos 3 for me...
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I'm really late to this discussion, so I hope everyone will bear with me. I'm working under the premise that some set of Logos customers have concerns about syncing any of their data to the Logos servers which are sufficiently legitimate to them that they need a way to work "offline" (as far as the Logos application is concerned). Given that, I can think of at least 5 ways of using Logos 4 without syncing their data to Logos. Note that I'm not going to provide step-by-step details for them all - I'll leave that as an exercise for the reader.
1) Make your actual use of L4 on a computer that's never on the internet. Do your program and resource updates on a computer that is on the internet. Use the techniques described on the wiki to move your updated program / resources from the internet PC to the offline PC.
2) As others have well pointed-out, set up a firewall (there are great free ones) to disallow any internet access for Logos specifically.
3) Change your etc/hosts file so that DNS lookups for any of the Logos sync server domain names yield invalid IP addresses. (If you use 127.0.0.1, it will hit your own PC; and that will cause any Logos requests to sync or update to fail.) Note that I don't know what all of the domain names are, but somebody around here probably does.
4) A bit similar to item 3, set up an account with OpenDNS.com and set your DNS settings to use their DNS servers. (Typically your settings would be for DNS servers hosted by your ISP.) Use the OpenDNS web interface to blacklist the Logos sync server domain names. Note that OpenDNS.com is the most effective tool I've found to reasonably filter access to the web - certainly better than any of those "net nanny" programs.
5) Mark Barnes has indicated that all traffic from Logos to its servers is over connections that honor your system's proxy settings. You can leverage that by setting your proxy settings to an invalid IP address just before you run Logos and reset them when you're done running Logos. Make sure you set SSL / HTTPS connections to go through the proxy. ***NOTE*** I have one concern here. An outbound internet connection from your PC does not have to be an HTTP(S) connection or honor proxy settings. It can be made directly to reachable server on the internet using any arbitrary / proprietary protocol an application chooses to use. Fiddler won't see any traffic like that. So if Logos has any internet traffic that doesn't honor proxy settings or only uses direct connections, item 5 won't stop it. The only real way to see this traffic would be with a full-blown protocol analyzer like WireShark.
If I had to choose from these options and I had to make sure my data *never* got sync'd, I'd use option 1. If it was more about controlling exactly when and how the data got sync'd, I'd use option 3.
Hopefully this helps someone.
Donnie
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Donnie Hale said:
1) Make your actual use of L4 on a computer that's never on the internet. Do your program and resource updates on a computer that is on the internet. Use the techniques described on the wiki to move your updated program / resources from the internet PC to the offline PC.
That sounds like a really good option, for those who are concerned about such things. Assuming they can afford to have two computers, that is.
Of course, while you're doing sermon prep, there will probably be times when you want to go out to the Web to Google something. In that case, if you want to do it all from the same computer (to be able to easily copy/paste into a Word document that you're working on your sermon in), you'd have to close Logos first to be sure no sync took place while you were connected to the Internet. Then be sure to unplug your Internet connection before starting Logos back up again. This method (if you're going to allow yourself some occasional Internet connection on that computer) is prone to human error, though. It would be easy to forget to shut down Logos sometime.
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Thanks, Donnie, that's a helpful summary. Permit me some comments:
Donnie Hale said:1) Make your actual use of L4 on a computer that's never on the internet. Do your program and resource updates on a computer that is on the internet. Use the techniques described on the wiki to move your updated program / resources from the internet PC to the offline PC.
It's not possible to get all updates that way. Metadata updates certainly would be missed, perhaps some others too. Disconnecting entirely from the internet is overkill if you just want to prevent notes etc. from being synced to Logos' servers. Logos currently only use one address to achieve syncing, and that's sync.logos.com - and you can use any of the other methods you suggest to block access to that one site. Indeed, if you want belt and braces you can use more than one method.
Be aware that (2) could probably be set up per user, whereas (3) and (4) would be system-wide. Personally, I'd be less confident about (4) than the others, because local DNS caching would mean changes wouldn't necessarily take place instantly.
Regarding (5), I've never seen any non-HTTP activity from Logos (not even FTP), although I haven't run WireShark since the early days of Logos 4 because WireShark can't see inside HTTPS packets. But they've got no reason that I could determine to go to the trouble of implementing anything that complex, so I see (5) as a theoretical risk only.
I've been using method (3) for several weeks on one account, and it works great. If I was paranoid, I'd combine it with method (4) and if I was very paranoid I'd also use method (2).
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Donnie, thanks for your suggestions, all are great and creative, technically I appreciated the use of the dyndns method...
. However they cripple the rest of the software in the process. The best possible option is still for logos to fix this properly.
One of the difficulties is that logos could start using another server at any time and several of these methods would suddenly allow data to be sync'd without the user's knowledge.
The safest option for me is to use l3 whilst I wait for a "fix" for L4..0 -
Derek said:
The best possible option is still for logos to fix this properly.
I agree.
Derek said:However they cripple the rest of the software in the process.
blocking sync.logos com will only block syncing. It won't stop anything else working.
Derek said:One of the difficulties is that logos could start using another server at any time and several of these methods would suddenly allow data to be sync'd without the user's knowledge.
Not quite true. The likelihood of it happening without a program update is negligible, and even if it did happen, the sync icon gives a visual indicating that syncing is taking place, so it wouldn't happen without your knowledge.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Mark Barnes said:
Not quite true. The likelihood of it happening without a program update is negligible, and even if it did happen, the sync icon gives a visual indicating that syncing is taking place, so it wouldn't happen without your knowledge.
You assume that I am observant and vigilant enough to pay attention to that detail...
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tom collinge said:Derek said:
As long as there is no CHOICE to store my notes on the Logos servers or not, I will choose to stay with Libronix 3...
Derek, there is a uservoice request concerning this. If this is important for you, please vote for this request: http://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-4/suggestions/660833-add-an-option-that-allows-a-user-not-to-upload-the?ref=title
I added a few of my votes to the cause.
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If the option is made available to set internet use to NO, it needs to do what it says its going to do. This seems like a clear honesty/integrity issue to me. I always thought setting internet to no meant it never used the internet for anything, period. If its other then that it seems misleading. The question mark next to the use internet option in Program Settings says "Yes:Logos will connect to the internet for various features No: Logos will not connect to the internet. Restart Required" That seems clear to me.
<EDIT> Sorry, not sure exactly where this thread current stands, but when I posted this I was starting to read from the beginning without looking at the dates.
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Philip Spitzer said:
<EDIT> Sorry, not sure exactly where this thread current stands, but when I posted this I was starting to read from the beginning without looking at the dates.
No problem, I think we all have done this. This security/privacy issue is becoming a lot like the note issue, every other month it comes back to life.
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Mark Barnes said:
It's not possible to get all updates that way. Metadata updates certainly would be missed, perhaps some others too. Disconnecting entirely from the internet is overkill if you just want to prevent notes etc. from being synced to Logos' servers. Logos currently only use one address to achieve syncing, and that's sync.logos.com - and you can use any of the other methods you suggest to block access to that one site. Indeed, if you want belt and braces you can use more than one method.
Your feedback is always appreciated, Mark. Especially by someone who's tried using some of these methods...
A question for you. Why would someone *not* get metadata updates using one of the "move resource content from one computer to another" wiki methods? If all of those updates end up under one of the folders that's supposed to get copied, and you can do any requisite reindexing on the offline computer, what would they be missing. How are metadata updates different?
Note that I'm not worried about it for myself, necessarily. But I have used the wiki technique with success. I can do big downloads at work where I have a significantly faster internet connection, and then copy the updates to my home PCs (all used just by me).
Thanks,
Donnie
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Donnie Hale said:
Why would someone *not* get metadata updates using one of the "move resource content from one computer to another" wiki methods?
Metadata updates can be sent separately from resources files (i.e. you have have metadata updated without the resource itself being affected). Surprisingly Logos has delivered hundreds or even thousands of metadata updates.
As far as I'm able to tell, metadata updates are written directly to the library, and one or two other databases. Only wiki suggestion #1 copies those databases. That's fine for a first time installation, but you can't keep copying files between installations to keep them permanently in sync. It just won't work (you'll end up over-writing one or the other). Using scan is fine (and supported). The Wiki method is unsupported, and I'd be very cautious about using it regularly just to keep two installations in sync.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Mark Barnes said:
As far as I'm able to tell, metadata updates are written directly to the library, and one or two other databases. Only wiki suggestion #1 copies those databases. That's fine for a first time installation, but you can't keep copying files between installations to keep them permanently in sync. It just won't work (you'll end up over-writing one or the other). Using scan is fine (and supported). The Wiki method is unsupported, and I'd be very cautious about using it regularly just to keep two installations in sync.
Mark,
Rather than trying to keep them in sync, can you just copy one installation in its entirety anytime the program, resources, and/or metadata are updated? It appears you'd have to leave the "Documents\{random}" folder alone, as it contains all your personal work product.
Given that L4 is a lot less dependent (implicitly or explicitly) on the registry than most Windows apps (primarily because it's a .NET app), it seems like a straight file system copy of the whole thing should have a chance of working?
Donnie
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Donnie Hale said:
Rather than trying to keep them in sync, can you just copy one installation in its entirety anytime the program, resources, and/or metadata are updated? It appears you'd have to leave the "Documents\{random}" folder alone, as it contains all your personal work product.
In theory, this may work, if you installed via option 1 or 2. But I would worry that there may be unforeseen consequences. You'd certainly have to be careful you the two installations were at the same version before you copied files. I'd also worry that Logos may get confused about the two installations if you ever did try and sync them (would it know they were different?). And I'd worry about the files that had path names as part of the data ResourceManager/ResourceManager.db as one example of many.
So, I think if you were going to rely on this method, you'd need to do some pretty extensive testing to keep any eye on it.
PS - For these reasons, personally the only method I even for the initial install is option #3. I worry about #1 and #2, and I'd worry even more if I was copying data folders between two installations frequently.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Thanks for the replies, Mark.
It's mostly academic for me. I'm not counseling people such that their personal information is in my prayer lists, nor am I a missionary in an authoritarian country. As long as Logos doesn't lose my credit card data, I don't worry about my clippings or searches. If they're compromised, maybe someone will read them and come to know the Lord.
Donnie
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Donnie Hale said:
Rather than trying to keep them in sync, can you just copy one installation in its entirety anytime the program, resources, and/or metadata are updated? It appears you'd have to leave the "Documents\{random}" folder alone, as it contains all your personal work product.
I have reservations about a copy of the entire \logos4 folder (below). I regularly update my laptop from the desktop computer using the basics of Method 1 or 2:-
- update the software as needed
- delete the existing folders in \Data\{random} and \Documents\{random}
- copy the \Data\{random} and \Documents\{random} folders from the backup
You don't have to copy the \Documents folder, particularly if the destination is an offline computer whose work you want to preserve.
Donnie Hale said:Given that L4 is a lot less dependent (implicitly or explicitly) on the registry than most Windows apps (primarily because it's a .NET app), it seems like a straight file system copy of the whole thing should have a chance of working?
If the installations have different versions I always update the software to avoid potential issues with the registry eg. when Smart Tags was introduced!
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Nothing has changed since I first said it: From April 26th: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/15836/122701.aspx#122701
"The greatest Constitutional mind of the 20th Century is Robert Bork. He was right to say privacy rights are NOT enumerated in the US Constitution. The US 9th Circuit Court of Appeals agreed when they allowed the FBI to hack a 15 yr old's computer to catch him making bomb threats.
Logos syncing with the Cloud is not a new threat to your privacy. Pandora's box was opened years ago. Your private details are all over the web. Ever bought from Am@zon? They use a half-dozen database mirrors located around the world. Mainland China hosts one of their server farms. The US Govt. secured 100,000 blank, reusable, re-assignable, domestic wiretap warrants to fight "terrorism." Are there really 100,000 terrorists out there? Recently millions of credit card numbers were stolen in one breach. Madison Avenue has been collecting your purchasing data for decades. Your new cable TV boxes can report back what you watch and what commercials you skip. It's a little late to start worrying, if you haven't already been wary. Logos 4 is the least of your worries.
When Lady Godiva rode the horse through town nude, she gave up her rights to privacy! So did the Emperor when he donned his new clothes."
In light of Amazon shutting down Wikileaks server access I just want to suggest everybody just avoid putting anything on computer you could not survive becoming public. There is NO WAY you can secure everything from everyone if you place it on a hard drive. (If privacy is really what you want, just don't put it on your computer.)Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Matthew C Jones said:
is not a new threat to your privacy.
if you grew up in a small rural town or a large family, you would never have bought into the myth of privacy. The likelihood that you should be doing anything
should be about zero.Matthew C Jones said:you could not survive becoming public.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:Matthew C Jones said:
is not a new threat to your privacy.
if you grew up in a small rural town or a large family, you would never have bought into the myth of privacy. The likelihood that you should be doing anything
should be about zero.Matthew C Jones said:you could not survive becoming public.
I grew up in a country with public baths. My bedroom walls were paper sliding doors. I lived in a city that never slept (Tokyo) with millions of people, half the population underground at any given time. I had to carry my alien registration with me at all times.
Then I returned to America and I lost my privacy. [:D]can anybody say "irs, atf, fbi, secret service, keystone cops, wiretaps and warrant-less searches?" (federal firearms license applicants enjoy the last one.)
Neither my bank nor the Social Security Administration has protected my private information. I don't expect my Bible software to do what they could not.
But I never allowed any of my secrets to hurt anyone through disclosure.[A]
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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