12Daysof sofar

After 5 days...

I feel like someone walking into a church full of expectation only wondering after half an hour or so, if it happened to be the wrong church...

Did someone recognize something from his or her wishlist? or am I the only one that does not?

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Allen Browne

Did someone recognize something from his or her wishlist? or am I the only one that does not?

You're not alone, Ton.

Perhaps we should have planned to give more at Christmas rather than buy for ourselves? [;)]

Daniel Bender

After 5 days...

I feel like someone walking into a church full of expectation only wondering after half an hour or so, if it happened to be the wrong church...

Did someone recognize something from his or her wishlist? or am I the only one that does not?

ton, I don't really have high expectations from the 12 days sale, and perhaps I'm just showing a little frustration. The Black Friday/Cyber Monday sale didn't work out for me either. I put in a bid for a couple of !CC commentaries which could not be sold. The only thing that bothered me about that is there were others who were granted bids on ICC commentaries (Cranfield on Romans). I was offered a good discount on the entire set but it was $250 more than my sales rep offered to sell it to me a few weeks earlier (I own individual commentaries from the collection and so was offered a higher discount). I hope this comment won't stir up more controversy.

In these type of sales the books that are offered I usually already own or are not interested. I have spent into the double digit range ($XX,000) on logos books so there is not a large volume of books that I would desire. I tend to buy want I want when I need it. I've only been in the ministry for 6 yrs. Before seminary I worked in Grand Rapids, MI where Baker Books, Zondervan, Eerdmans, and Kregel are located. I built a large library before entering the ministry as a vocation. I am in the process of selling off my library and going digital. I've also given away a large number of books to those who need them. I guess, what I'm trying to tell you is that this is the way that I've built my resources in Logos. I also have a book allowance from the church which is incredibly helpful.

No, I haven't seen anything that gives me pause and am not overly optomistic. I do look forward to the sales, but haven't purchased anything from them in the past couple of years. I take that back, I did purchase a book from the March Madness playoff last year.

I am happy that Logos offers these sales and know that they are a great encouragement to people; it really is a joy to read the forums and see peoples excitement over the deals they have gotten. Ton, I hope the next few days provide you with some items you are looking for.

Blessings,

Daniel Bender

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/201123#Comment_201123

Perhaps we should have planned to give more at Christmas rather than buy for ourselves?

[Y][Y]

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/201126#Comment_201126

Some of us have been buying too much already. All of the offers so far this "12 Days" have been for things I have already.

ton verdam

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/201130#Comment_201130

Rosie, still awake? or up already? to check todays 12days? for me its noon, for you... what time? go back to sleep!

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/201132#Comment_201132

Rosie, still awake? or up already? to check todays 12days? for me its noon, for you... what time? go back to sleep!

Rosie does not sleep. She takes power naplets in between screen refreshes. [|-)]

I am on here because we have my daughter's wedding tomorrow and .... Aww who am I trying to fool? We all know I just had to check the 12 Days sale. [:$]

btw; I have four of the specials and the one I don't have I will get with the collection it is is. So, no bites yet.

Aaron Baldridge

Nothing has lit my fire yet either. I wonder if Logos still does Christmas library builder sales? Does anyone remember those? A couple of years ago I was excited to get a whole bunch of books for a GREAT deal as a collection. Is there plans to offer those again?

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/201140#Comment_201140

Rosie does not sleep. She takes power naplets in between screen refreshes.

Now THAT'S funny....

F5...zzzz....F5....zzzz....

I look at the 12 days sale like it's icing on the cake...if I get something I want...fine...if not...it's no skin off of my nose.....I've been blessed by having Logos at all.

Randall Hartman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/201155#Comment_201155

I too have been positively underwhelmed! It would be nice if there were a couple of drop-dead deals that lit up this board like crazy---even goes viral on UTube, even makes every Logos customer scamber out on their rooftop and holler "WWWHHHEEeeeeeeewwwwwww."

OK. 2much coffee. Sorry...

Floyd Johnson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/201155#Comment_201155

I look at the 12 days sale like it's icing on the cake...if I get something I want...fine...if not...it's no skin off of my nose.....I've been blessed by having Logos at all.

[Y][Y]

Joe Mayden

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/201130#Comment_201130

Rosie, does the discount for a product only work for the day the product is offered. I was going to buy Berkoff today and it did not give me the discount when I entered the coupon code.

Shawn Drewett

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/201150#Comment_201150

Christmas library builder sales? Does anyone remember those?

Do I remember? Those were the days.......................

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/201184#Comment_201184

Christmas library builder sales? Does anyone remember those?

Do I remember? Those were the days.......................

I couldn't help myself... I delved into the web archive and drummed up this little bit of nostalgia.

http://wiki.logos.com/Library_Builder

May I remind you that in the spirit of nostalgia, not everyone was happy with those offerings either.

I've found a few on the 12days that I eyed. The IVP dictionaries on day 1 I let pass but I wish I hadn't. The Loius Berkhoff Systematic Theology I snapped up yesterday - I've had the dead tree version for years, and I'm happy to keep building my collection in Logos, especially at those savings.

Jonathan Burke

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/201196#Comment_201196

I'm in the same position as Daniel B. By the time you have Portfolio and several hundred additional resources, it's increasingly difficult to find a deal which offers a significant discount on items you don't own and would like to.

Fred Chapman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/201196#Comment_201196

I picked up the Take Heart devitional the other day and I've enjoyed it so far. Looking forward to see what comes this week[:)]

Todd Hinton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/201150#Comment_201150

Ditch the 12 Days and go back to library Builders. Even the preivious released versions were better that the 12 Days.

George Somsel

Is that 12 days of "sofar" or 12 days of "shofar"? [;)]

Pat Flanakin

I wouldn't rely on the 12 days, or any other days for that matter, for good deals on Logos resources. Just call the sales staff and ask for their best price. That way you know they won't tell you they are not selling that resource that day like you tend to feel when you don't see it show up during any of these promotional times.

Randall Hartman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/201225#Comment_201225

The Library Builder referred to earlier illustrates my point. Here we are 4 years later still talking about it. Will any of us still be talking about the 12 Days of 2010? I guess that remains to be seen. But I would think it would serve Logos well to give us a spectacular deal that keeps us babbling about for years!

Giovanni Baggio

I would like to think logos is saving the best for last but based on my recent experiences I hardly doubt it. But let's challenge logos. If they claim that the old outdated charles spurgeon collection is worth $1,699.95 and they are selling it for $315.95 (which they usually sell if for $699.95 (and take 25% off of that), then we must assume that they will probably sell the NICOT/NICNT collection which is worth $1,599.95, for $300.95 Wow! If logos were to do that I will definitely spend the money but I know 99.9% [^o)] that they will not do that even if i'm trying to give them the benefit of a doubt by saying i'm sure 99.9%. Alright so far the choices these past days have not been like the good choices from last year so it's hard to read what logos has in mind now days. After black friday i'm beginning to think it's all about trying to make money and not about helpin the customers. happy holidays! happy holidays! happy holidays...to youuuuuuuuuuu....lol...by the way i heard santa claws visited tiger woods and said "ho ho ho" and tiger woods said "where? where? where?" lol a lil xmas humor

spitzerpl

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/201155#Comment_201155

Rosie does not sleep. She takes power naplets in between screen refreshes.

Now THAT'S funny....

F5...zzzz....F5....zzzz....

With Rosie's experience I bet she's rigged up a little program to take care of it for her. Probably gives a little alarm when a new post comes through, or one she's already commented on.

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/201240#Comment_201240

With Rosie's experience I bet she's rigged up a little program to take care of it for her. Probably gives a little alarm when a new post comes through, or one she's already commented on.

diet coke shot out of my nose...that's even funnier...Philip...you still got it!

Pam Larson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/201228#Comment_201228

I was happy to pick up the Wesleyan commentary set Saturday for about half price, since I'd originally had it on preorder but had to cancel. I referred to it in yesterday's Sunday school class and it was favorably received.

Dave Moser

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/201230#Comment_201230

If they claim that the old outdated charles spurgeon collection is worth $1,699.95 and they are selling it for $315.95 (which they usually sell if for $699.95 (and take 25% off of that), then we must assume that they will probably sell the NICOT/NICNT collection which is worth $1,599.95, for $300.95 Wow! If logos were to do that I will definitely spend the money but I know 99.9% that they will not do that even if i'm trying to give them the benefit of a doubt by saying i'm sure 99.9%.

You're comparing apples and oranges. Spurgeon is out of copyright and in the public domain so Logos does not have to pay royalties for the title. They can still make money by selling the product at such a huge discount compared to print. The NICOT/NICNT, on the other hand, are still under copyright and have large licensing fees each time Logos sells them. To sell it at the same price would probably cause Logos to lose money with each copy. Not exactly a good business model...

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/201251#Comment_201251

diet coke shot out of my nose...

Hope your keyboard survived...! [:P]

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/201228#Comment_201228

The Library Builder referred to earlier illustrates my point. Here we are 4 years later still talking about it. Will any of us still be talking about the 12 Days of 2010? I guess that remains to be seen. But I would think it would serve Logos well to give us a spectacular deal that keeps us babbling about for years!

It's worth noting that the Library Builder offer was for resources from a publisher that's been very committed to and supportive of electronic for a very long time, and were obviously willing to take a smaller margin with the hope of increasing volume. Hopefully other publishers would take note (yes, Zondervan, I'm looking at you [:)]).

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/201257#Comment_201257

If they claim that the old outdated charles spurgeon collection is worth $1,699.95 and they are selling it for $315.95 (which they usually sell if for $699.95 (and take 25% off of that), then we must assume that they will probably sell the NICOT/NICNT collection which is worth $1,599.95, for $300.95 Wow! If logos were to do that I will definitely spend the money but I know 99.9% that they will not do that even if i'm trying to give them the benefit of a doubt by saying i'm sure 99.9%.

You're comparing apples and oranges. Spurgeon is out of copyright and in the public domain so Logos does not have to pay royalties for the title. They can still make money by selling the product at such a huge discount compared to print. The NICOT/NICNT, on the other hand, are still under copyright and have large licensing fees each time Logos sells them. To sell it at the same price would probably cause Logos to lose money with each copy. Not exactly a good business model...

You are, unfortunately, right -- though I certainly wouldn't mind picking up the Anchor Yale Bible with that discount... (Is there no smilie for 'dreaming'? I need one!)

But since that won't happen, how about the Latin-English Summa Theologica for, say, $29,95? That's Public Domain. And the Catholic Encyclopedia was at prepub for $250 and is now at CP for $30, so it's not an impossible discount. And the Summa is already payed for...

Jerry Bush

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/201261#Comment_201261

It's worth noting that the Library Builder offer was for resources from a publisher that's been very committed to and supportive of electronic for a very long time, and were obviously willing to take a smaller margin with the hope of increasing volume. Hopefully other publishers would take note (yes, Zondervan, I'm looking at you ).

I was not able to participate in those awesome deals in past years. Is there ANY way they could be brought back? Maybe as one of the 12 days things?

Jerry

Jim VanSchoonhoven

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/201277#Comment_201277

I recently had a conversation on this board with other Logos users about the high markup on their public domain books compared to their copyrighted books, and was repeatedly told that the amount of difference between the cost of the two is very very small.

I know it isn't and so do you that is why we don't see the great sales on copyrighted material, the big markups are on the public domain books, with that in mind...I am counting on my Christmas deals to come from community pricing and some of the great buys we can all help each other get this year!

Yes, these deals will not get to us at Christmas time, but if we all want really great deals for the next year, let's make the bids now and drive the prices down low. We can have great Christmas deals through out the year.

In Christ,

Jim VanSchoonhoven

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/201240#Comment_201240

With Rosie's experience I bet she's rigged up a little program to take care of it for her. Probably gives a little alarm when a new post comes through, or one she's already commented on.

At first, I thought you were suggesting that Rosie had developed a little program to do her sleeping for her. [8-|]

Steve Adams

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/201290#Comment_201290

Personally, I'd like to see a Kindle app finally developed and given via the 12 days of Logos....then I can read off my Kindle which is much less harsh on my eyes than my computer screen. I don't need the complicated intergration, just to be able to read my books.

nancy

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/201196#Comment_201196

I couldn't help myself... I delved into the web archive and drummed up this little bit of nostalgia.

http://wiki.logos.com/Library_Builder

Thanks for the link! I tried to find out what was in those things that everyone keeps talking about some weeks ago, but I never succeeded. Now that I've seen it, I have to say "what's the big deal?!". I wouldn't have bought either of those. There's almost nothing in them I want, and certainly nowhere near enough to be worth the price. Just another 'Evangelicals only'-stamped package. At least the 12 Days give a chance to mix Academic, Devotional, Evangelical, Catholic, Jewish and whatever else you can think of, and let everyone choose for him- or herself.

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/201251#Comment_201251

diet coke shot out of my nose...that's even funnier...Philip...you still got it!

You should drink coffee, it's hotter but the bubbles don't burn your sinuses. My keyboard is now caffeine dependent.

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/201280#Comment_201280

I was not able to participate in those awesome deals in past years. Is there ANY way they could be brought back? Maybe as one of the 12 days things?

How about the 12 LAST days? [;)]

James Matichuk

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/201228#Comment_201228

I enjoy Logos and would like to build my library in it. I run the Original Language Library and have added a number of resources that I find useful and interesting. Last year I added several of the 12 day offerings, and was still impressed by some of what I passed up. This time around, I haven't found the offers nearly as exciting. I am sorry to have passed on Day 1, because it was by far the best yet. I am still holding out for a gem and likely will stay up until midnight in anticipation for when the day rolls over. But I am not holding my breath. I have an email drafted to my logos sales rep to share my real wishlist if the remaining 7 days don't deliver.

I liked that last year there was a number of newer resources (Dictionary of Theological Interpretation, Commentary on the Old Testament Use in the New, Jesus in context). Nothing at all against Spurgeon and Berkhof(I have purchased Spurgeon products from logos in the past and have the non-ethereal version of Berkhof's theology on my shelf) but I had hoped that Logos wouldn't just scour the public domain to offer us deals.

Edwin Bowden

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/201150#Comment_201150

Nothing has lit my fire yet either.

I would have jumped on the IVP OT Dictionaries if I didn't already own them. The sale price was only $5 more than I gave for pre-pub

Mike Childs

I really can't say I'm disappointed in the 12 Days sale, though I haven't bought anything yet. It is a cause for thanksgiving that I already have many resources, so my needs are more specialized and I am more choosy than I once was. I would have bought the IVP OT Dictionaries, but I bought them on Pre Pub. I would have considered the Wesleyan Commentaries, (though I would have prefered the older Eerdman's Wesleyan set because I knew and admired a few of the writers.) However, I didn't want them enough to turn loose of the money right now.

I bought the Cranfield Romans commentaries in the Black Friday sale - using most of my available Logos cash. My wife and 7 grandchildren will not allow me to spend much more unitl after Christmas is paid for. Santa must come before books for the next several weeks.

So it will take something really special to get me to spend right now.

Friedrich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/201540#Comment_201540

Does anybody know much (and will pass on) about the Moller collection today?

Jerry M

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/201564#Comment_201564

Does anybody know much (and will pass on) about the Moller collection today?

I bought the set because I have an interest in theology and the price was right. One thing I thought was unusual was that he is an amillennialist. Many Pentecostals are dispensationalists. I believe that dispensationalism is even included in the Assembly of God statement of faith (but I may stand to be corrected, I am going from memory). He challenges both Calvinism and Arminianism. If you have any specific questions I would try to find the answers.

Dan Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/201230#Comment_201230

I would like to think logos is saving the best for last but based on my recent experiences I hardly doubt it. But let's challenge logos. If they claim that the old outdated charles spurgeon collection is worth $1,699.95 and they are selling it for $315.95 (which they usually sell if for $699.95 (and take 25% off of that), then we must assume that they will probably sell the NICOT/NICNT collection which is worth $1,599.95, for $300.95 Wow! If logos were to do that I will definitely spend the money but I know 99.9% that they will not do that even if i'm trying to give them the benefit of a doubt by saying i'm sure 99.9%. Alright so far the choices these past days have not been like the good choices from last year so it's hard to read what logos has in mind now days. After black friday i'm beginning to think it's all about trying to make money and not about helpin the customers. happy holidays! happy holidays! happy holidays...to youuuuuuuuuuu....lol...by the way i heard santa claws visited tiger woods and said "ho ho ho" and tiger woods said "where? where? where?" lol a lil xmas humor

We can all dream but at that price I am doubtful Logos could even cover the costs to the publisher... Spurgeon is a non copywrited text (or minimally so) so they have less publisher related costs on that one. If Logos did come up with that deal you dream of, even I would likely go for it...

-Dan

Frank Sauer

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/201582#Comment_201582

So far nothing for me either. Some great deals just nothing I want to jump on. After upgrading to Silver on Black Friday/Cyber Monday my resource budget is shot, but if the right deal were to come along on the right resource(s) I may see what I can do...;)

nicky crane

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/201228#Comment_201228

Christmas for me comes 29th-31st, when 6 prepubs I've ordered are expected to ship, including Harvard classics - there's a bargain for you! [;)]

Friedrich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/201569#Comment_201569

If you have any specific questions I would try to find the answers.

Jerry, first, thank you so much for taking time to respond to my question. You have already provided some interesting insight. I guess I was interested more in the quality of work, and at what level (that is subjective) he writes. The fact that he is amillenial in his Rev 20 approach suggests he is an independent thinker, which I like (ie, that he doesn't just tow the party line). I am interested in how he takes on Calvinism and Arminianism. I mean, what is left? The Eastern Orthodox blend?

It seems like a terrifically good price. I just hoped it would be well researched and documented. I read that he doesn't engage much with other scholarship--is that correct?

Is this written for laymen, college or seminary level, etc.

Jerry M

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/201616#Comment_201616

Is this written for laymen, college or seminary level, etc.

An educated layman could certainly read and follow his thought, but he doesn't babysit you either and uses theological terms freely. He references people like Berkhof as he writes but he probably doesn't jump off other theologians as much as some scholarly writers. Of course I only got the books today so it is hard to be too specific. Here are some excerpts.

"It is not a question of a subject (God) choosing an object (a specific person), or vice versa, of man as subject choosing God as object as we would see it in scholastic terms. It is not a question of God looking at mankind (who are all in a state of sin) and then deciding who of them He wants and who He does not want. The question that confronts us is not whether a specific person is chosen or not. The conclusive question is: what is that specific person’s relationship with Christ? Our relationship with Christ is what the gospel is really about (John 3:16, 18)."

"In the gospel it is not said: “Strive so you can be elected” or “Preach the gospel to people because there might be some hearing you who are elect.” Election is, in the first instance, a matter concluded between ‘God and his Son, and through his Son it also affects man. It is, after all, through his Son that we attain salvation, which in turn points to election in Him.

The doctrine of predestination, as well as Arminianism, places the election within the same linear time as salvation. The former places it before salvation and the latter after salvation. In reality salvation (which takes place in time) is contained in the election (which is eternal)"

"We have already pointed out that those who adhere to the doctrine of predestination bring God’s reprobation to the election in an inverted relationship. Everyone who is not chosen by Him, is reprobated.

There are two points of view in this regard. First of all, there are those who see reprobation as supralapsarian, that is to say that evil and sin (together with the consequent reprobation) were included in God’s original will and plan. In so doing, He willed that some people be elected, and attain salvation, but also willed the rest to remain evil and come under everlasting judgement as the reprobated. This is the double predestination (praedestinatio gemini) by which some are chosen for everlasting life and others for everlasting perdition.

On the other hand, there is the infralapsarian interpretation of the doctrine of predestination . This means that evil and sin (and the consequent reprobation) were never part of God’s original will and plan. Evil is something which God, in his prescience, knew about and made allowance for. Once fallen mankind was there, He chose some for salvation and passed by the rest so that the inevitable reprobation and judgement would be their lot. We have already dealt critically with both these points of view regarding predestination, and have indicated that neither can be reconciled with the Holy Scripture and God’s self-revelation.

We also discussed the other model of predestination which holds that salvation and reprobation are dependent on the human will. We showed that this, too, creates serious problems, particularly with regard to election to salvation. The position on reprobation held by this model of election comes close to what we read in the Bible. In the Holy Scripture it is stated explicitly that those who are lost (the reprobated) are the ones who rejected God (John 3:18). The reason for the reprobation is not assigned to God’s deliberate will or permitting will, but to man himself.

Furthermore, we pointed out that we cannot work with models of election and regard election as an abstract given entity. It is not a plan, a decree or a model that exists in itself and which subsequently finds expression in the lives of people. Election and reprobation must be seen in terms of God’s self-revelation in Jesus Christ."

Friedrich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/201644#Comment_201644

thank you, Jerry. Central Illinois shout-outs to you, btw. I used to live in B/N and Lincoln, and then in southern S. Ill. (near Carbondale). My wife is from Mt. Carmel. We live in Mich, now.

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/201647#Comment_201647

We live in Mich, now

{holding up my hand and pointing...} Really? Where at?

Friedrich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/201654#Comment_201654

We live in Mich, now
{holding up my hand and pointing...} Really? Where at?

lol, at the base of the thumb. below Detroit. you must be an insider . . .

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/201660#Comment_201660

lol, at the base of the thumb. below Detroit. you must be an insider . . .

Only insiders and close family of insiders understand the michigan /hand thing. I've had family in MI for years; and used to go all the way up to Mesick to go mushroom hunting every year.

Jerry M

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/201665#Comment_201665

mushroom hunting every year.

Your making me hungry! I instinctively reached for the salt shaker. April is a long ways away.

Friedrich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/201665#Comment_201665

and used to go all the way up to Mesick to go mushroom hunting

wonder if their name has anything to do with the effects some people get from eating the wrong mushrooms . . .