Sharing resources of LOGos 4 with Kindle

Keith D. Green
Keith D. Green Member Posts: 2 ✭✭
edited November 2024 in English Forum

I have only had my Logos 4 for mac a short time love it.

I received a Kindle for Christmas and was wondering it I could copy some of the books, not commentaries, over to make reading them a little easier, Like one of the devotionals, example.

Woudl like to use them in conjunction with each other.

Just curious

 

Keith

«13

Comments

  • Welcome [:D]

    Wonder if http://biblia.com/ usable on Kindle ? can login with Logos account for online access to many resources.

    Logos currently offers 4 mobile options => http://www.logos.com/mobile

    By the way, an iPad has many book reader applications available, including Kindle.  An iPad color screen easy to read indoors (including Logos in worship services).

    I received a Kindle for Christmas and was wondering it I could copy some of the books, not commentaries, over to make reading them a little easier, Like one of the devotionals, example.

    Easy copy = No since Logos resources use a file format not supported by Kindle => http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Kindle#File_formats

    Current 4.2a Beta for Mac has a known issue: Printing/Exporting in Resources is not supported yet

    Logos 4 PC can print/export resource(s) to text files.  Wiki page has virtualization information => http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_4_Mac#Need_Logos_4_PC_feature.3f

    Keep Smiling [:)]

     

  • Floyd  Johnson
    Floyd Johnson Member Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭

    On the PC you can copy and paste text - using the standard tools.  If this can be done on a Mac, then you can send your books to the Kindle to read.  You could also copy them into Open Office and print them into PDFs for downloading to the Kindle.  

    On the PC there is a program called Mobipocket Creator - this will create Mobi files that can be read on the Kindle as a Kindle book.

    Blessings,
    Floyd

    Pastor-Patrick.blogspot.com

  • On the PC you can copy and paste text - using the standard tools.

    Copy and paste works - Mac OS X standard print dialog box includes save as PDF (can create PDF's from many programs) - similar to installing a PDF printer on PC.

    On the PC there is a program called Mobipocket Creator - this will create Mobi files that can be read on the Kindle as a Kindle book.

    Learned Mobipocket Creator requires Windows (might work with freely available WINE).

    Likewise learned Calibre http://calibre-ebook.com/ has downloads for Windows, Mac, and Linux (with many e-book input and output formats).

    Keep Smiling [:)]

  • Robert Pavich
    Robert Pavich Member Posts: 5,685 ✭✭✭

    This works perfectly...although, I've only cut and pasted less than a whole book of course, it's enough to get some reading done on the kindle.

    Robert Pavich

    For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

  • Patrick S.
    Patrick S. Member Posts: 766 ✭✭

    This works perfectly...although, I've only cut and pasted less than a whole book of course, it's enough to get some reading done on the kindle.

    If you can, getting an iPad is a good solution. Apart from the iPad's many other benefits with the Logos for iPad app you can download many titles from your Logos library directly to the iPad for offline reading — work great. I have downloaded many and have them accessible even in cases where there is no Internet access.

    "I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

  • Jonathan Pitts
    Jonathan Pitts Member Posts: 670 ✭✭

    Having experimented a bit with this, the mobile view of biblia.com is the least labour-intensive approach to reading a whole Logos book on the Kindle.

    There is a thread in the Biblia.com forum that deals with this.

  • Austin Roof
    Austin Roof Member Posts: 2 ✭✭

    I have been trying to figure out this same problem. In my personal opinion I would say it is incredibly easy to follow these steps:

    1. Download and install 'MobiPocket Publisher" Software

    2. From Logos4 copy and then past your book, or book section into a 'Word', or 'Text' document

         2a. I have Word 2007 and I had to save it as a Word 1997-2003 formated file for it to import onto MobiPocket.

    3. Go into your MobiPocket program and select Import From Existing File and select MS Word

    4. Browse and select the file

    5. Import

    6. After file is imported press the 'Build' button on the top of the program. 

     After this your Word Document will be put into a Kindle compatible format. This was extremely easy and is so incredibly practical for so many other things!

    Hope this helped!

    Blessings

    Austin

  • Download and install 'MobiPocket Publisher" Software

    MobiPocket web site offers "Mobipocket Creator 4.2 Home Edition" and "Mobipocket Creator 4.2 Publisher Edition" - both need Windows 2000/XP with Internet Explorer 5.0 or above.  Either way, additional software needed to run on a Mac.

    Keep Smiling [:)]

  • Jonathan Pitts
    Jonathan Pitts Member Posts: 670 ✭✭

    There is no need for extra software. Just email a document in any common text format (e.g. Microsoft Word) to the @free.kindle.com address that you can find on your Manage my Kindle page of the Amazon website. Amazon will convert it to a Kindle book and send it to your device.

    The dowsides of this approach are:

    1. Exporting the whole of a 500 page book from Logos is fiddly and time-consuming.

    2. You lose the footnotes and the convenience of shortcuts to other Logos resources.

    Using Biblia.com instead gets around these.

  • Rob
    Rob Member Posts: 32 ✭✭

    A friend just copied a book from Logos 4 (new release) for PC into a Word doc then emailed it to his_name@kindle.com with "convert" in the subject line.  It arrived converted on his Kindle and the formatting looks really good.  

  • Jonathan Pitts
    Jonathan Pitts Member Posts: 670 ✭✭

    Rob said:


    A friend just copied a book from Logos 4 (new release) for PC into a Word doc then emailed it to his_name@kindle.com with "convert" in the subject line.  It arrived converted on his Kindle and the formatting looks really good.  


    How long did it take him, and are there any footnotes?

  • Robert Pavich
    Robert Pavich Member Posts: 5,685 ✭✭✭

    Rob said:

    A friend just copied a book from Logos 4 (new release) for PC into a Word doc then emailed it to his_name@kindle.com with "convert" in the subject line.  It arrived converted on his Kindle and the formatting looks really good.  

    I've never been able to get this to work...hmmm

     

    Robert Pavich

    For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

  • Juanita
    Juanita Member Posts: 1,339 ✭✭✭


    Rob said:

    A friend just copied a book from Logos 4 (new release) for PC into a Word doc then emailed it to his_name@kindle.com with "convert" in the subject line.  It arrived converted on his Kindle and the formatting looks really good.  

    I've never been able to get this to work...hmmm

     


    Hi Robert,

    I do this all the time.  This should help you out:  http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/ref=hp_navbox_email_200375630?nodeId=200375630&#email  Note the section on sending personal documents to Kindle. 

    The right address to send it to is my name with @free.kindle.com.  The word free has to be in the address.

  • R. Mansfield
    R. Mansfield Member Posts: 629 ✭✭✭

    I've been experimenting with this a bit since I have a number of books in various Bible software platforms that I would simply like to read from beginning to end. I have both an iPad and a Kindle, and like many who have both, for long reading sessions, I believe the Kindle device is a much better choice. 

    Regarding titles in Logos, if using the Logos app on the iPad, the big problem is that you cannot take notes. Not too long ago, this was not a big deal for me. But reading ebooks on my Kindle or even in the Kindle app on my iPad has made this a desirable habit. 

    It's true that you can simply copy the text of a book in Logos to Word and send it to your Kindle's email address. This is quick and works flawlessly. Unfortunately, on your Kindle home screen, the "author" displayed is the email address from where you sent the document. I wanted the author to match the name of the actual author. 

    Lately, I've been in the mood to re-read some early Eugene Peterson. Rather than buy the Kindle version of The Contemplative Pastor, I remembered that I already had this in my Logos library. Since I've already experimented with converting a Word document (again, probably the easiest method), I decided to try out the free Calibre software. 

    So I copied the entire contents from the Logos version of The Contemplative Pastor to Word and then imported it into Calibre. No, I did not read the instructions, and simply assumed that Calibre would read a Word document. It does not. So, in checking the formats Calibre will read, I exported the text out of Word into an HTML file. 

    Calibre converted this easily to the Amazon Mobi format. I then emailed the book to my Kindle and it appeared within minutes. This whole process took only about 10 minutes. It would have probably taken less time if I'd known what I was doing right off. The only thing I did not do was to create a true, linked Table of Contents. Although I didn't do this, it does not look like a difficult process at all. 

    Now check out my results in these screenshots from the Kindle:

    image

    Above: Note that The Contemplative Pastor shows up in my book list with the correct author just like any regular Kindle book.

     

    image

    Above: The cover page. Notice even the placement of "Volume 17" to the side is just like the Logos edition.

     

    image

    Above: the copyright page. Note that bold formatting was retained. 

     

    image

    Above: the first page of the second chapter. Note the formatting that's been retained: italics, different-sized fonts, larger capital for first letter in chapter. 

     

    image

    Above: note that the Kindle's built in dictionary works with the book, just like any regular Kindle book. 

     

    image

    Above: Highlighting and notes work. You can even share the note via Twitter & Facebook. 

     

    All things considered, this seems to be the best way to read books from Logos and other Bible software on a Kindle. By converting the book with Calibre, the Kindle treats it just as it would any regular book that would be bought from the Amazon, with perhaps the exception of page numbers (now that Amazon has begun adding these). 

  • Keith Larson
    Keith Larson Member Posts: 1,133 ✭✭

    So, in checking the formats Calibre will read, I exported the text out of Word into an HTML file. 

     

    Did you use the "Save As" command in Word?  If so did you save it as a regulare HTML file or a filtered one (whatever that means)?

  • R. Mansfield
    R. Mansfield Member Posts: 629 ✭✭✭

    Did you use the "Save As" command in Word?  If so did you save it as a regulare HTML file or a filtered one (whatever that means)?

    Yes, I simply used the Save As command. For the rest of your question, I had to take another look. I hadn't deleted the Word file yet, so I opened it again, hit Save As, which brought up this dialogue (I've cropped out the top part).

    image

    I didn't make any changes but simply saved with these settings. I don't see a "filtered" setting. I'm using Word 2011. 

  • Keith Larson
    Keith Larson Member Posts: 1,133 ✭✭

    That answers my question, thanks.  I am going to have to play around with Calibre.  It will be a little more work than simply emailing a Word file to Amazon, but the results will be worth it.

    I now only wish Logos would create a one bottom solution to this, by adding a mobi converter directly into Logos.

  • R. Mansfield
    R. Mansfield Member Posts: 629 ✭✭✭

    I now only wish Logos would create a one bottom solution to this, by adding a mobi converter directly into Logos.

    I can't imagine them ever doing this because of the fear of non-DRM copies of texts floating around. Certainly, that's what I've created in Calibre, but I'm not going to distribute it to anyone. Adding the conversion directly into the software might make it too easy for those who would, though. 

    Bootleg (i.e. non-paid) copies of texts is the biggest fear of publishers and authors in regard to eBooks. 

  • Kevin A. Purcell
    Kevin A. Purcell Member Posts: 3,419 ✭✭✭

    Bootleg (i.e. non-paid) copies of texts is the biggest fear of publishers and authors in regard to eBooks. 

    And proves how near sited they are. They only see the theft. They don't see the many more people who experience free content which draws them into the other paid content, especially when dealing with people with a conscience like Christian readers. Yes there are thieves who don't care. But they are  outnumbered by the people who get the free and want more so they pay.

    Dr. Kevin Purcell, Director of Missions
    Brushy Mountain Baptist Association

    www.kevinpurcell.org

  • TCBlack
    TCBlack Member Posts: 10,980 ✭✭✭

    Bootleg (i.e. non-paid) copies of texts is the biggest fear of publishers and authors in regard to eBooks. 

    And proves how near sited they are. They only see the theft.

    Don't forget that Logos licenses these books from publishers.  While I have no idea what end the decision is made on, it's just as likely that publishers would balk at this for the same reason.  

    Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

  • Robert Pavich
    Robert Pavich Member Posts: 5,685 ✭✭✭

    Bootleg (i.e. non-paid) copies of texts is the biggest fear of publishers and authors in regard to eBooks. 

    And proves how near sited they are. They only see the theft. They don't see the many more people who experience free content which draws them into the other paid content, especially when dealing with people with a conscience like Christian readers. Yes there are thieves who don't care. But they are  outnumbered by the people who get the free and want more so they pay.

     

    Not even an argument, brother....anything that's stealable will be stolen....Romans 3....

     

    Even Christians steal on a regular basis and think nothing of it.

     

    If I had a dollar for every Christian I know who pirates MP3s instead of buying them, or passes them to friends instead of the friends purchasing the album...I'd be rich.

     

    There is a mindset that says "stealing digital stuff isn't really stealing."....

     

    Pastor Joe:

    "I have to do some work on a handout for church....got a copy of Photoshop that I could get from you?"  [;)]

     

     

     

    Robert Pavich

    For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

  • Keith Larson
    Keith Larson Member Posts: 1,133 ✭✭


    Not even an argument, brother....anything that's stealable will be stolen....Romans 3....

     

    Even Christians steal on a regular basis and think nothing of it.

     

    If I had a dollar for every Christian I know who pirates MP3s instead of buying them, or passes them to friends instead of the friends purchasing the album...I'd be rich.

     

    There is a mindset that says "stealing digital stuff isn't really stealing."....

     

    I agree 100%, but the fact is those so called "Christians" will do it anyway. (I personally doubt that they have been born again. 1 Cor. 6:9-10)   It looks like in less than an hours work a person can already convert any book in their Logos library to a fully compatable Kindle title.  The only people being hurt by having to jump through all these hoops to convert our Logos books to Kindel format is the honest users.  The theives will do it anyway.  I think that is what Kevin means by publishers being short sighted.

  • Robert Pavich
    Robert Pavich Member Posts: 5,685 ✭✭✭

    (I personally doubt that they have been born again.

    If sinning is a measure of being born again then we can all go home...not one of us even comes close to measuring up to any sort of standard.... [:$]

    Personally, I'd hesitate to say that if someone downloads an audio that they didn't purchase then they aren't born-again...

    When was the last time any of us actually obeyed the speed limit 100% of the time ?    [;)]

     

    That's a slippery road to go down...I'd just as soon leave it alone.

     

    By the way...I was only responding to his statement that MOST will be honest about it....no way...men are not honest....as I said...Romans 3....

    Robert Pavich

    For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

  • TCBlack
    TCBlack Member Posts: 10,980 ✭✭✭

    There is a mindset that says "stealing digital stuff isn't really stealing."....

    Sigh.  The blank stares I've received when I called people out on stealing music... sigh.

    Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

  • Rob
    Rob Member Posts: 32 ✭✭

    How long did it take him, and are there any footnotes?

    A few minutes and no there are no footnotes although the numbers are in the text.

  • Robert Pavich
    Robert Pavich Member Posts: 5,685 ✭✭✭

    Rob said:

    A friend just copied a book from Logos 4 (new release) for PC into a Word doc then emailed it to his_name@kindle.com with "convert" in the subject line.  It arrived converted on his Kindle and the formatting looks really good.  

     

    this just isn't working for me...I've tried the "name@free.kindle.com email and nothing happens...do I do something else on my kindle to receive the docs?

     

    Robert Pavich

    For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

  • Jonathan Pitts
    Jonathan Pitts Member Posts: 670 ✭✭


    this just isn't working for me...I've tried the "name@free.kindle.com email and nothing happens...do I do something else on my kindle to receive the docs?

    Are you sure that you have the correct email address from the Amazon website? Is wi-fi turned on on your Kindle? Is the Kindle set up to connect to the network (do you have wi-fi symbol in the top right-hand corner of the screen)? Note that the "free" address only works with wi-fi and not with the Kindle's 3G, if you have that version. You also need to set up the email address that you are sending from as an approved address on the Manage your Kindle page at Amazon.

    Hope one of these sorts you out.

  • tom
    tom Member Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭

    Just a little FYI for everyone:

    Please note that coping and sending the data to a kindle is in violation of Logos' EULA.  The EULA has a section titled "THINGS YOU MAY NOT DO," and in this section the EULA states that we cannot "copy the Software or Content except to make archival or backup copies as provided above."

    Because sending data to a kindle is not classified as archival or backup, sending data to a kindle is in violation of Logos' EULA

  • Robert Pavich
    Robert Pavich Member Posts: 5,685 ✭✭✭

    Tom,

    I guess that puts and end to this thread....thanks for the information.

    I should read a little closer next time...

    Robert Pavich

    For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

  • R. Mansfield
    R. Mansfield Member Posts: 629 ✭✭✭

    Just a little FYI for everyone:

    Please note that coping and sending the data to a kindle is in violation of Logos' EULA.  The EULA has a section titled "THINGS YOU MAY NOT DO," and in this section the EULA states that we cannot "copy the Software or Content except to make archival or backup copies as provided above."

    Because sending data to a kindle is not classified as archival or backup, sending data to a kindle is in violation of Logos' EULA

    Tom, I doubt it's so clear cut. Your last sentence is an interpretation of the EULA. I suppose we'd have to have a Logos representative weigh in on this to be certain.

    However, I would interpret making a copy of a Logos book to read on my Kindle as archival in nature. It's the same principle of recording a television show to a DVR (or VCR). The law has said the consumer can do this even though the medium of the content has changed. Heck, if I want to transfer a TV show from my TiVo to my Mac and then burn it to a privately held DVD, I can do this. This all falls under the fair use provisions of US copyright laws. You simply cannot distribute the content to other parties. 

  • R. Mansfield
    R. Mansfield Member Posts: 629 ✭✭✭

    this just isn't working for me...I've tried the "name@free.kindle.com email and nothing happens...do I do something else on my kindle to receive the docs?

    Check to make certain that your Kindle address is correct. You don't need the "free" part of the address if you're only using a wifi Kindle (which is what I have). Also, make certain that in your Kindle management settings on Amazon's website, you've authorized the email address from which you're SENDING from. If that's not correct, Amazon will reject the email. 

    Finally, I've had more success with .doc than .docx, so I always send using the former. 

  • Robert Pavich
    Robert Pavich Member Posts: 5,685 ✭✭✭

    Tom, I doubt it's so clear cut. Your last sentence is an interpretation of the EULA.

    The definition of "archive" is synonymous with 'backup" pretty much....

    Archive:

    verb: to place or store in an archive:



    To stretch it to mean:

    "To change format to read on another alternate device" is not even close.

    Robert Pavich

    For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

  • R. Mansfield
    R. Mansfield Member Posts: 629 ✭✭✭

    Tom, I doubt it's so clear cut. Your last sentence is an interpretation of the EULA.

    The definition of "archive" is synonymous with 'backup" pretty much....


    Archive:
    verb: to place or store in an archive:


    To stretch it to mean:
    "To change format to read on another alternate device" is not even close.

     

    Again, interpretation. If I archive a television show and watch it exclusively from my homemade DVD anytime I want, I'm not doing anything illegal. So says US law. 

    Would it also be illegal or wrong to print out an article from one of the TLJ journals in Logos and carry that with me for reading later? Or file it away in my filing cabinet for later reading? Of course not. In fact, I've got a filing cabinet full of articles photocopied from physical journals (again, changing the format). Do I have to run back to the original in the library when I want to read them? No, I read the copy I've made. In fact, I'm slowly working my way through them, scanning them one by one, to keep them on my computer instead of taking up physical space. This is changing the format a third time! Again, falls under fair use. 

    My main point is that occasional converting and reading these texts privately on a device like the Kindle falls within US copyright fair use laws. I'm not doing anything wrong and I have a clear conscience. I even slept quite well last night! [:)]

    If you are troubled by it personally, then don't do it. 

     

  • R. Mansfield
    R. Mansfield Member Posts: 629 ✭✭✭

    Tom, I doubt it's so clear cut. Your last sentence is an interpretation of the EULA.

    The definition of "archive" is synonymous with 'backup" pretty much....


    Archive:
    verb: to place or store in an archive:


    To stretch it to mean:
    "To change format to read on another alternate device" is not even close.

    One more minor point in regard to definitions. The definition of archive above is not really satisfactory since it uses the word in the definition itself. 

    Look at this definition from the New Oxford American Dictionary (the default dictionary on the Mac):

    image

    Going by principle here, if the Logos collection on my computer is the main source of access to a title, the Kindle would act as the "less frequently used storage medium." There's nothing to assume that the file couldn't be accessed in this state. 

  • Robert Pavich
    Robert Pavich Member Posts: 5,685 ✭✭✭

    Again, interpretation. If I archive a television show and watch it exclusively from my homemade DVD anytime I want, I'm not doing anything illegal. So says US law. 

     

    Where in the definition of Archive does it say "transfer to another medium and use it on another device?

    Rolled up in the definition of archive is the idea of "storing something away"....not changing formats to use in another way...

    Robert Pavich

    For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

  • Robert Pavich
    Robert Pavich Member Posts: 5,685 ✭✭✭

    the word "storage" keeps popping up here but not the phrase "transfer to another device to use in another format"....

     

    Storage, I understand...its' the other part that seems like wishful thinking.

    [:$]

     

    Robert Pavich

    For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

  • Please note that coping and sending the data to a kindle is in violation of Logos' EULA.  The EULA has a section titled "THINGS YOU MAY NOT DO," and in this section the EULA states that we cannot "copy the Software or Content except to make archival or backup copies as provided above."

    Because sending data to a kindle is not classified as archival or backup, sending data to a kindle is in violation of Logos' EULA

    Logos' EULA has a section titled "THINGS YOU MAY NOT DO":

    The Software, Content, and Documentation are protected by United States copyright laws and international treaties. You must treat the Software, Content, and Documentation like any other copyrighted material--for example a book. You may not:

    - copy the Documentation,

    - copy the Software or Content except to make archival or backup copies as provided above,

    - modify or adapt the Software or merge it into another program,

    - reverse engineer, disassemble, decompile or make any attempt to discover the source code of the Software,

    - place the Software or Content onto a server so that it is accessible via a public network such as the Internet,

    - sublicense, rent, lease or lend any portion of the Software, Content, or Documentation, or

    - reverse engineer, disassemble, decompile or make any attempt to "unlock" or circumvent the digital copyright protection of the Content.

     

     

    Observation: copying content to Kindle appears to violate couple more items: adaption into another program (Logos does not license content for Kindle use) along with using Amazon's servers via a public network to transfer content to Kindle.

    Keep Smiling [:)]

  • Robert Pavich
    Robert Pavich Member Posts: 5,685 ✭✭✭

    " rel="nofollow">Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) said:

    - copy the Software or Content except to make archival or backup copies as provided above,

    Define "copy" ,,, [6]

     

    Humor warning: just in case you missed it.

    Robert Pavich

    For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

  • R. Mansfield
    R. Mansfield Member Posts: 629 ✭✭✭

    Again, interpretation. If I archive a television show and watch it exclusively from my homemade DVD anytime I want, I'm not doing anything illegal. So says US law. 

    Where in the definition of Archive does it say "transfer to another medium and use it on another device?

    Rolled up in the definition of archive is the idea of "storing something away"....not changing formats to use in another way...

    Okay, quick history lesson here. When VCRs first came on the scene in the seventies, TV networks had a fit because they said it was illegal to copy and archive television shows for later viewing--even if private. The US legal system ruled on the side of the consumer as long as the content was not being sold or shared. By principle, let me say this again, if I transfer content from a television signal to a VCR, it changes format. In today's terms, if I transfer it from my TiVo to my computer and then to a DVD that I play on my computer, both its format and the device changes. But no network could legally hold me accountable for this. The law would be on my side. 

    Because the law is never as fast as technology, everything is based on precedent. I maintain that moving this content from Logos to the Kindle for my own private use is neither illegal nor dishonest. It's fair use as long as I do not distribute it. 

    Again, I ask if this is any different than making a hard copy of a journal article--whether from the original journal or from an electronic source--and storing it in a filing cabinet for later reading (as opposed to going back to the original source for later reading)?

    Changing formats and other "devices" is inherent in all the above.

  • Robert Pavich
    Robert Pavich Member Posts: 5,685 ✭✭✭

    Again, interpretation. If I archive a television show and watch it exclusively from my homemade DVD anytime I want, I'm not doing anything illegal. So says US law. 

    Where in the definition of Archive does it say "transfer to another medium and use it on another device?

    Rolled up in the definition of archive is the idea of "storing something away"....not changing formats to use in another way...

    Okay, quick history lesson here. When VCRs first came on the scene in the seventies, TV networks had a fit because they said it was illegal to copy and archive television shows for later viewing--even if private. The US legal system ruled on the side of the consumer as long as the content was not being sold or shared. By principle, let me say this again, if I transfer content from a television signal to a VCR, it changes format. In today's terms, if I transfer it from my TiVo to my computer and then to a DVD that I play on my computer, both its format and the device changes. But no network could legally hold me accountable for this. The law would be on my side. 

    Because the law is never as fast as technology, everything is based on precedent. I maintain that moving this content from Logos to the Kindle for my own private use is neither illegal nor dishonest. It's fair use as long as I do not distribute it. 

    Again, I ask if this is any different than making a hard copy of a journal article--whether from the original journal or from an electronic source--and storing it in a filing cabinet for later reading (as opposed to going back to the original source for later reading)?

    Changing formats and other "devices" is inherent in all the above.

     

    Was any of that in the context of archiving digital content?

     

    Honestly....that all looks like justification to me....no offense.

     

    Robert Pavich

    For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

  • R. Mansfield
    R. Mansfield Member Posts: 629 ✭✭✭

    " rel="nofollow">Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) said:

    Logos' EULA has a section titled "THINGS YOU MAY NOT DO":

    The Software, Content, and Documentation are protected by United States copyright laws and international treaties. You must treat the Software, Content, and Documentation like any other copyrighted material--for example a book. You may not:

    - copy the Documentation,

    - copy the Software or Content except to make archival or backup copies as provided above,

    - modify or adapt the Software or merge it into another program,

    - reverse engineer, disassemble, decompile or make any attempt to discover the source code of the Software,

    - place the Software or Content onto a server so that it is accessible via a public network such as the Internet,

    - sublicense, rent, lease or lend any portion of the Software, Content, or Documentation, or

    - reverse engineer, disassemble, decompile or make any attempt to "unlock" or circumvent the digital copyright protection of the Content.

    Observation: copying content to Kindle appears to violate couple more items: adaption into another program (Logos does not license content for Kindle use) along with using Amazon's servers via a public network to transfer content to Kindle.

    Keep Smiling Smile

    First, your observation misquotes the EULA because the EULA states that you may not adapt the software into another program. The EULA uses software separate from content

    Second, my content on Amazon's servers is NOT public. Only I can access it. By your reasoning, one could not back up their computer (including their Logos files) to any kind of offline storage such as Carbonite, Mozy or even one's MobileMe iDisk. 

     

    Look, as I said yesterday, publishers are scared to death of their content being distributed to others without their getting compensation. I understand this. Therefore, I don't expect Logos to say, "Hey, if you're copying this to your own Kindle, printing it out for your filing cabinet or whatever, that's fine with us." That would scare the publishers away. 

    But this is the world in which we live. We are mobile and use a variety of mobile devices. Again, I would never want to do anything illegal, and I especially wouldn't want to do anything unethical. I'm telling you that what is being described here is neither. As I've said before, this copyright discussion is a red herring and a waste of time. I can't believe I got dragged into it again!

    My wife is Library and Textbook liaison for the Kentucky Department of Education. We've had many of these discussions. When these kinds discussions arise in the public schools, she's the one the state turns to. She and I have talked about this kind of stuff many times, and I can assure you private use content such as this is not illegal. 

    But again, if you don't feel comfortable with it, don't do it. 

  • R. Mansfield
    R. Mansfield Member Posts: 629 ✭✭✭

    Was any of that in the context of archiving digital content?

    I was using the analogy of other media because it applies. Think of it like a parable. Plus, all law is based on precedent. 

     

    Honestly....that all looks like justification to me....no offense.

    And now the ad hominem arguments begin? Brother, you don't know my motives or my thoughts. No justification here. If I thought I was doing something wrong, I would not do it. 

     

  • Robert Pavich
    Robert Pavich Member Posts: 5,685 ✭✭✭

    And now the ad hominem arguments begin? Brother, you don't know my motives or my thoughts. No justification here. If I thought I was doing something wrong, I would not do it. 

    No ad hominem....just observation....that's why I made sure to include "no offense"

     

     

    Robert Pavich

    For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

  • R. Mansfield
    R. Mansfield Member Posts: 629 ✭✭✭

    No ad hominem....just observation....that's why I made sure to include "no offense"

    Of course, that's how we make ad hominem arguments on the internet. We follow the phrases with "no offense" or "LOL." Or we call them "observations" or "in my opinion." But it is what it is. 

    Again, you don't know my heart, thoughts or intentions. I have not made myself personally accountable to you, asking for such observations. Therefore you're not qualified to make them. 

    No offense.

  • Robert Pavich
    Robert Pavich Member Posts: 5,685 ✭✭✭

    Again, you don't know my heart, thoughts or intentions. I have not made myself personally accountable to you, asking for such observations. Therefore you're not qualified to make them. 

     

    I understand your observation that I don't know your motives...no offense taken...

    BUT look CAREFULLY at my words....

     

     

    I said "THAT ALL LOOKS like justification to me..."

     

    I didn't say that I KNOW YOUR MOTIVES...because I don't.

    So evidently you've misunderstood me also. :)

    Robert Pavich

    For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

  • R. Mansfield
    R. Mansfield Member Posts: 629 ✭✭✭

    My point is that we were civilly discussing the legality of converting Logos texts to other devices, specifically the Kindle. Rather than dealing with my points, you switched tracks to the personal by claiming that my statements look like justification on my part of my actions.

    Even if it's stated that it looks like something to you, it's not really relevant to the discussion, is it? We were discussing the fine points of the issue, and you made it personal by offering an interpretation as to the motives of my points.

    This is often done in debates as an attempt to write off an opponent's arguments rather than actually dealing with them. I'm not saying that's what you were trying to do in this case, but I do note that the discussion of topic came to a halt. I can tell you that years ago when I used to both participate and judge debates, a statement like yours, regardless of how well it was cushioned, would have resulted in a loss of points. 

    Regardless, I've already said this is a waste of my time. I've got to finish grading papers today. I can't spend any more time on this subject. I'm going to "shake the dust from my sandals" and move on.

  • Living and learning (including Gal 6) - looking at Logos' EULA - noted license granted for Software and Content together:

    LICENSE GRANT

    The package contains software ("Software") and may contain electronic text, graphics, audio, or other resources ("Content") and related explanatory written materials ("Documentation"). "Software" includes any upgrades, modified versions, updates, additions and copies of the Software. "You" means the one person or company who is being licensed to use the Software, Content and Documentation. "We" and "us" means Libronix Corporation and its parent company, Logos Research Systems, Inc. In the case of a company purchasing the Software, only one person may be designated as the user of that software and in no case is the software allowed to be used by more than one person.  In no way shall "company" be construed in such a way as to allow for site-licenses, shared licenses, co-op licenses, library licenses or multi-user licenses. A church or company may be the purchaser and thus legal owner of the license grant, but may only allow one human being to be the beneficiary of this license grant.

    We hereby grant you a nonexclusive license to use one copy of the Software and "unlocked" Content on any single computer, provided the Software and Content are in use on only one computer at any time. The Software is "in use" on a computer when it is loaded into temporary memory (RAM) or installed into the permanent memory of a computer--for example, a hard disk, CD-ROM or other storage device.

    If the Software and Content are permanently installed on the hard disk or other storage device of a computer (other than a network server) and one person uses that computer more than 80% of the time, then that person may also use the Software and Content on a portable or home computer.

    The package may contain Content that is NOT licensed to you. This Content is "locked" in electronic form and is included for your convenience should you desire to "unlock" it by purchasing a license for it. Content that you "unlock" is covered by this agreement.

    TITLE

    We remain the owner of all right, title and interest in the Software and Documentation. Ownership of the Content remains with Copyright holders.

    Keep Smiling [:)]

  • Robert Pavich
    Robert Pavich Member Posts: 5,685 ✭✭✭

    My point is that we were civilly discussing the legality of converting Logos texts to other devices, specifically the Kindle. Rather than dealing with my points, you switched tracks to the personal by claiming that my statements look like justification on my part of my actions.

    Even if it's stated that it looks like something to you, it's not really relevant to the discussion, is it? We were discussing the fine points of the issue, and you made it personal by offering an interpretation as to the motives of my points.

    This is often done in debates as an attempt to write off an opponent's arguments rather than actually dealing with them. I'm not saying that's what you were trying to do in this case, but I do note that the discussion of topic came to a halt. I can tell you that years ago when I used to both participate and judge debates, a statement like yours, regardless of how well it was cushioned, would have resulted in a loss of points. 

    Regardless, I've already said this is a waste of my time. I've got to finish grading papers today. I can't spend any more time on this subject. I'm going to "shake the dust from my sandals" and move on.

    You completely misunderstood what I said.

     

    None of what you just listed was my intent.

    But none the less if you are bound and determined to be offended...then I apologize and I'll drop it...it wasn't that important to begin with.

     

    Robert Pavich

    For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

  • Jonathan Pitts
    Jonathan Pitts Member Posts: 670 ✭✭

    The software does include the Print/Export function, with the option of exporting to other formats such as Microsoft Word and HTML, albeit restricted to 100 pages at a time. Despite the wording of the EULA, I can see little difference between exporting to a Word document and converting that Word document into a Kindle file, providing the purpose is simply to make the content that we have purchased more convenient to read, not to access or make available to others content that we have not purchased. It would perhaps come closer to the usual understanding of reasonable use in copyright law to export one section at a time (perhaps the 100 pages that Logos facilitates) rather than the whole book.

    I actually find using my Kindle to access Biblia.com is less work that exporting and converting to Kindle format. The site is gradually improving and I think will eventually provide fuss-free access to the books and their footnotes.

  • Robert Pavich
    Robert Pavich Member Posts: 5,685 ✭✭✭

    The software does include the Print/Export function, with the option of exporting to other formats such as Microsoft Word and HTML, albeit restricted to 100 pages at a time.

    That's a very good point....

    That would lend credence to the idea that (at least in less than 100 page chunks) we are allowed to read our resources "offline" so to speak.

    PS: I don't like trying to access biblia through my kindle...it just doesn't look right....maybe I'm doing something wrong.

    Robert Pavich

    For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__