Buying Software Second-Hand

To transfer a license to another person the owner is supposed to call Customer service and pay a $20 fee.

If this person is not named on the original license I find it unlikely that he has a legitimate copy or bought his second-hand and didn't do the proper transfer process then.

Call Customer Servicve and tell them about it.  They also know who it is registered to.

Greg Masone said:

What do ya'll think?

I have purchased used Libronix software from said auction site several times. The only thing of real value that you want to purchase is a legitimate transferable license. The fact is, you could download every file on all 8 CDs directly from the Logos ftp server for free but neither that download nor the CD set will do you any good without the accompanying license to unlock the resources. I agree with Kevin, I seriously doubt you can get these resources unlocked if the Seller does not have a license in his own name.

Another thing to be cautious about is (I am NOT saying it applies in this specific auction listing you are considering) sometimes an unscrupulous Logos user will offer a CD set for sale telling you "just keep it registered in my name" so he can continue using it simultaneously. Logos servers can see what geographical location a computer logs on from. (And this fact doesn't get missed by an omniscient God either!)

Specifics you need to know when considering a second hand purchase of Logos resources:

• "Used" Nelson eBible collections are usually registered in someone's name already and the savings buying them used is swallowed up by the transfer fee. (IF they are even registered to the Seller. I have purchased two that were not and lost out.)
• I bought the Anchor Bible Dictionary second hand for a SUPER price. Right after I installed it Logos put it on sale for the same price I gave for it. I had to go through the transfer process and my purchase is not reflected in my Orders page. Oft times you are not saving money buying used
•  It is recommended to confirm a Seller actually has a transferable license to the product you are considering. This can be done by asking the Seller their Logos user name and calling Logos Customer Service to confirm the license. Don't worry, Logos will not transfer a license without confirming it with the owner first. (Usually this is proactively initiated by Logos to prevent someone misrepresenting themselves as a legitimate owner.)
• All titles under one license must be transferred together. You cannot buy a package deal and dump individual titles you don't want, nor can you sell a collection license and hold back one or two titles.
• Buying cheap titles second hand will not save you anything unless you purchase a lot of individual titles from one Seller and transfer the licenses in one Customer Service transaction. The transfer fee is not per license but per Customer Service action.

Rene Atchley said:

The only reason I have a logos piece of software now is the pain in the rump transferring the software from one person to another.

I will be happy to pay the transfer fee if you really hate it that much.[;)] All you would need to do is answer one inquiry from Logos Customer Service!

nicky crane said:

Help!  I log in from different countries!    But presumably that would only be a problem if there were log-ins in my name from different parts of the world simultaneously!

Correct. It is those simultaneous log-ins that attract attention. Even if you travel a lot and log in from many different states, your computer has a specific MAC address ( Media Access Control ) that remains static because it is assigned to your network adapter. That is one way the FBI can identify which specific computer at a given address has been used in a crime. And although it is possible to spoof MAC addresses, it isn't worth the penalty when you get caught --- and you would. (Not you personally, Nicky. [:|] )

Matthew C Jones said:

And although it is possible to spoof MAC addresses, it isn't worth the penalty when you get caught --- and you would. (Not you personally, Nicky.  )

Thanks for the warning, Matthew!  I'll take it to heart  [:P]

David Ames said:

And if you have one of those codes installed, even though you paid, in good faith, Microsoft requires that you pay them (about) $150 or the Microsoft software site will NOT update your operating system and some other, Microsoft friendly, programs look to see if Microsoft likes you and it Microsoft does not they will not run on your system either. [the person that updated your system is long gone And the user gets scamed again]

This is all very true, unfortunately. It unnecessarily impedes the legal transfer of licenses. And when you attempt to contact Microsoft they just ask you to buy another license, as you have said. At least when I transfer a Logos license the kind folk at Customer Service genuinely try to help me. I've lost out on two eBible lifeworks because Logos had no active email on file to contact the registered owners. On other licenses the Logos CS Rep was able to secure permission from the Seller long after I had lost the info.

 

Matthew C Jones said:

Correct. It is those simultaneous log-ins that attract attention.

Interesting and helpful discussion.  I have a question related to what Matthew mentioned regarding simultaneous log-ins.  I often use the church desktop and my own laptop at the same time when I'm working in my study at the church, and often run Logos on both computers.  Is it a problem if I run Logos from two computers simultaneously (both computers are only used by me, and the Logos software on both is registered to me)?  Is Logos going to think that one of the computers is someone else running a pirated copy?  Any feedback would be helpful.  Thanks.

Darcy

Douglas Alvarenga said:

I came across various websites that offered the illegal unlocks

Yeah, it is mind-boggling to me.

But Logos 4 will have a lot less of that going on because of the design of the software. I am aware there are pirating efforts to circumvent L4 also but I think they will meet with less success than before. My real question would be, "How can God bless your Bible study if it is done with stolen software?"

To get back on the original topic: It is perfectly legal and ethical to buy second-hand Logos software as long as you get a registrable license with it. If the Seller does not like or use the resource they may part with it cheaply. Also, the Seller may need the money more than the resource at the moment. Good deals can be found but my majority of savings come from scouring the Logos website, subscribing to all the email alerts and reading the blog faithfully. And if it is not on sale and I just "got to have it," I give my salesman a call and beg for a deal. [:D]

David Ogilbee said:

 What if the seller is selling a certain set of commentaries or logos resources and says they are brand new, factory sealed? Is the license registration still an issue? (The seller's feedback is all very positive 99.6%)

You should be safe but there is still a possibility you are not.

• I recall an investigation of Office D**** employees re-wrapping software in the back room after copying install codes. Factory sealed can be spoofed.
• If an install code sticker is visible on the outside of the packaging it is possible it has been used. I purchased some of the Fortress Press paperback titles  that include the Libronix CD. The CD's were still sealed in the book but some had been registered already. The serial numbers were on a visible sticker.
• You should ask the Seller to stand behind their claim it is unregistered or you should be willing to lose the purchase price if they won't. Buying through PayPal gives you certain guarantees as to the description and condition. If an item is counterfeit or used but you purchased it described as "new", you can pursue a refund. Refunds are only successful if there is money in the Seller's account that PayPal can recover.
• Also, I had a Seller mail me a piece of registered mail lacking the CD.  When I filed my claim with PayPal the Seller produced documentation of a delivery to my address. I could not prove the box was empty so I lost my money.
• In spite of all these cautions, I have found a lot of great second-hand buys on Logos/Libronix resources over the years.  I do want to point out benefits of buying directly from Logos that you don't get with other Sellers:
• You have a money-back guarantee in case you discover the resource is not what you expected it to be. Other sellers can't offer you that once you open the package.
• You have a perpetual record of the purchase in case you lose that CD. The Orders page in your Logos account has a download link of all products you have purchased directly from Logos. Your third party purchases are not added to this list. It is easy to forget you own something in Logos when your library starts to get into the thousands of books. 

Bottom line is try to deal only with reputable sellers. Try to buy through safe venues. (I have purchased via snail mail and USPS money orders on rare instances.) Sometimes the cheapest price is not always the best deal. I purchased the John Piper Collection a few weeks back from Logos during the 12 Days of Logos Sale. Then I was convinced by Praiser's forum thread to buy the Christmas 2010 Master Collection. Praiser's hard work on the spreadsheet revealed the John Piper Collection was all but completely duplicated within the Master Collection. (Only two books shy of complete.) I contacted Logos Customer Service explaining I did not need two copies of each Piper book. They were very helpful in refunding the purchase. If I had bought the Piper Collection anywhere else I would still own two copies of each book and not received the refund. As much criticism as I get for being over-enthusiastic about Logos, it is based on personal experience

disclaimer: I must confess, I have purchased many resources from other-than Logos.com.

David Ogilbee said:

This was the seller's response to my question:

                                   "The commentary collection cd-rom that I have available includes its own serial number, so each person who buys this product from me receives a new product with a unique serial number. Thanks" 

David Ogilbee said:

Is it possible for the items to each have a new serial number but still show up as being owned under this seller's logos account?  

David,

There was once a time (back in Libronix 3 days) when people could pre-order multiple copies of a Libronix resource at significant savings and re-sell the unopened packages for a tidy profit once they were released. There were some jokes in these forums about it being a retirement investment plan. This was all possible because the CDs were not registered in anyone's name upon sale but upon installation. Therefore, no transfer fees were needed and no license transfers took place. This is still the case with third party publishers like Nelson's eBible & IVP's few titles. (I wonder if Baker intends to resurrect the same with their titles.) Just be aware that DIY installation of resources from CDs will usually (always?) require a Libronix installation or the help of Logos Customer Service to enable Logos 4 downloads. That makes it a bummer when the CD arrives in the mail on the weekend. (I keep a Libronix machine up & running for this & other reasons.)

David Ogilbee said:

So based on this information, does it sound like a safe buy?

I've already posted several benefits to buying directly from Logos earlier in this thread. I will almost always defer to my Logos salesman for a purchase, almost always. I'm not telling you to where to buy ... [:#] ... But the only way to get any safer than your proposed transaction is to buy directly from Logos.

I wish you fruitful Bible study with the best software made for that purpose.