Hard Drive
What would be the fastest hard drive for Logos4 besides
going SSD?
Thanks
Comments
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Look at the RPMs of a drive. The higher the number the better.
7200 RPM drives are the most common of the speedy HDDs you can get drives that spool faster than that, but they aren't usually available if you are customizing an OEM machine. You can check New Egg or Tiger Direct to see what's available in the size you need.
Keep in mind that the faster the spool speed the longer the boot time. I know that this seems strange, but the faster drives take longer to reach full speed, but once they get going they are better for the database work that Logos has to do.
Prov. 15:23
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Below is the list of choices they give me from
HP750GB 7200 rpm SATA 3Gb/s hard drive
1TB 7200 rpm SATA 3Gb/s hard drive
1.5TB 7200 rpm SATA 3Gb/s hard drive
1.5TB RAID 0 (2 x 750TB SATA HDDs) - performance
1TB RAID 0 (2 x 500GB SATA HDDs) - performance
2TB 5400 rpm SATA 3Gb/s hard drive
2TB 7200 rpm SATA 3Gb/s hard drive
2TB RAID 0 (2 x 1TB SATA HDDs) - performance
1TB RAID 1 (2 x 1TB SATA HDDs) - data security
300GB 10K rpm SATA 3Gb/s hard drive
1.5TB RAID 1 (2 x 1.5TB SATA HDDs) - data security
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It looks like this one is the best combination for size and speed.
2TB RAID 0 (2 x 1TB SATA HDDs) - performance
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That would be a fine choice. However, keep in mind that a RAID 0 (also called Striping) has twice the failure rate. This is because data is evenly distributed between the two drives and if one dies then you lose everything. If you go with this configuration make certain you have good backups (which should be the case anyway)
Prov. 15:23
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>>has twice the failure rate>>
Ouch! I do not like that.
Any other thoughts?
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Replacing a hard drive is not a hard thing to do, Windows 7 has a great built-in tool for taking system images. It would not be hard to keep an external HD for backups, restoring from a drive failure would be a quick process.
However, if I were in your shoes I would get one of the single 7200 RPM drives for Windows & all other programs and then buy a fast HDD or SSD elsewhere and use it only for Logos. This would give you a performance boost because other programs reading and writing to the HDD would not slow Logos down.
I had a tower with a RAID 0 array that I was having problems with. I reformatted and configured it like this and I'm pleased with its performance.
Prov. 15:23
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Seagate Momentus Xt. It's a hybrid drive that combines a small SSD with HDD, giving really good HDD performance with much lower cost and larger size than an SDD. Was an Editor's Choice at CNET, comes up to 500Gb in size ($119)
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3734/seagates-momentus-xt-review-finally-a-good-hybrid-hdd
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."- G.K. Chesterton
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Got some questions about a SSD. The new computer that I am
looking at has a 620HD 7200 and extra place to put another one. If I put a
120ssd drive in the extra space how do I use it? How do I get windows 7 on it and
get it up and running? What do I use the 620 for?0 -
Actually, I just bought this drive (to replace a Toshiba drive that lasted only one week.)
It doesn't feel fast. Windows 7 rates it as 5.9 (same as the slower 5400 rpm Toshiba MK6465GSX), and NovaBench gave it a lower sustained throughput than the slower Toshiba (60 vs 66.)
Not sure what to make of all that.
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Sam West said:
Got some questions about a SSD. The new computer that I am
looking at has a 620HD 7200 and extra place to put another one. If I put a
120ssd drive in the extra space how do I use it? How do I get windows 7 on it and
get it up and running? What do I use the 620 for?If you buy a new computer with a 620 HD Windows 7 will presumably come pre-loaded on it.
A 120 GB SSD would fill up rather fast if you have pictures or video files. I would leave Windows on the 620 and install the SSD and do a custom install of Logos on it.
If you wanted to run Win 7 off the SSD you would have to install Windows on it with whatever recovery media that came with the new computer.
Prov. 15:23
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You put all your Windows files, boot files, and program files on the SSD, and then all your music, pictures, video, other data where speed doesn't matter on the HDD.
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."- G.K. Chesterton
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Steve Clevenger said:
>>has twice the failure rate>>
Ouch! I do not like that.
Any other thoughts?
If you are dealing with desktop or rackmount you could go with 4 hard drives in a RAID 0 & RAID 1 configuration. That used to be considered fast & safe. For reasons I am not versed in, present practice is to NOT use RAID 0 (striping) Amazon uses a unique configuration; multiple drives in the same location all configured as RAID 1. (Drive failure is transparent to the network and a physical replacement can be installed and online in 6 minutes after failure.) Data striping can be achieved on a single drive if it is 3g optical with "light filtering". That means the red light carries one stream of data, the blue light another, the green another, the purple yet another. My description is probably skewed technically. This was how my brother tried to explain it to me. (He works on these at Amazon.) Of course, this all costs more than a dual SSD upgrade so this post has a fluff-factor of 8.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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I would suggest really trying to save your money and get an SSD.
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Allen Browne said:
It doesn't feel fast. Windows 7 rates it as 5.9 (same as the slower 5400 rpm Toshiba MK6465GSX), and NovaBench gave it a lower sustained throughput than the slower Toshiba (60 vs 66.)
Not sure what to make of all that.
I tried to upgrade an HP DV8000 a few years back with two 320GB drives. They came with a drive overlay from the manufacturer that was supposed to handle the BIOS limitation. The boot drive accessed the whole drive at a painful crawl.Strange thing, the drives functioned just fine as slaves. [8-)]
Sometimes you gotta go with a new computer or flash the BIOS.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Any noticeable difference in running Logos4 with 8gb of ram
vs 16gb?Thanks
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I just installed one on my laptop and I am very pleased with it. (Even if I did pay $10 more at BB.) The laptop boots quicker and seems snappier on every operation. It has to be the drive since I didn't make any other upgrades or tweaking. It is an SATA 2.5" laptop drive. It is NOT a PATA drive. They do sell a desktop form factor a little cheaper. Don't worry about the "hybrid" part. Seagate did this well. BUT....read on:Ben said:Seagate Momentus Xt. It's a hybrid drive that combines a small SSD with HDD, giving really good HDD performance with much lower cost and larger size than an SDD. Was an Editor's Choice at CNET, comes up to 500Gb in size ($119)
Normally, yes. I've got Windows 7 Ultimate,and could not get a successful image extracted out of it. I had to go with a clean install from discs when I bought that Momentus drive. I do not think the SSD part of the drive had anything to do with the failed disk cloning attempts. The only thing I can figure is I did not have enough free space left (800MB) on my old hard drive to properly create an image. edited for clarification: Windows 7 did extract an image but it was not usable. So don't delete the old drive data until you see it on your new drive.Kevin Becker said:Replacing a hard drive is not a hard thing to do, Windows 7 has a great built-in tool for taking system images. It would not be hard to keep an external HD for backups, restoring from a drive failure would be a quick process.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Matthew C Jones said:Allen Browne said:
It doesn't feel fast. Windows 7 rates it as 5.9 (same as the slower 5400 rpm Toshiba MK6465GSX), and NovaBench gave it a lower sustained throughput than the slower Toshiba (60 vs 66.)
Sometimes you gotta go with a new computer or flash the BIOS.
I notice in a later response you say your Seagate Momentus is snappy. That's great. It would be interesting to see how NovaBench rates its througput. I did read the AnAndTech article, and they certainly rated it well.
I've actually installed in a brand new computer, as the Toshiba drive failed after just 1 week. I also flashed the BIOS with the newsest on on Toshiba's site. Running Windows 7 Ultimate (64-bit.) Drive is ST95005620AS. Perhaps NovaBench only reports on sustainined writing, but it still shouldn't be slower than a 5400 rpm drive.
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Steve Clevenger said:
Any noticeable difference in running Logos4 with 8gb of ram
vs 16gb?Currently No - Logos 4 is a 32 bit application (cannot directly address more than 4 GB RAM).
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Currently No - Logos 4 is a 32 bit application (cannot directly address more than 4 GB RAM).
"Currently"? Have you been made privy to an upcoming re-write of Logos as 64-bit? [:D] If so, I will move on to Win7 64-bit. That would really speed up indexing.
btw: Anybody notice the shortened start-up music for Logos 4? I like it better! Softer, not so abrupt with those shrill piano notes. Good improvement.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Allen Browne said:
I notice in a later response you say your Seagate Momentus is snappy. That's great. It would be interesting to see how NovaBench rates its througput. I did read the AnAndTech article, and they certainly rated it well.
I will report back NovaBench after it finishes indexing the latest download ("10 hours"?) The AnAndTech article describes my experience to a "T." Now I understand the learning curve process. Whoever wrote that algorithm did a marvelous job. I do wish it was bigger than 4GB and had write capability. Maybe the next drive will.
Check back tomorrow afternoon for the NovaBench results.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Tom's Hardware has SSD Raid performance article => http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ssd-raid-performance,2798.html (good reading - storage drivers can affect performance) - depends on usage patterns if RAID 0 is faster or slower.
Also has SSD 102 article => http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/flash-ssd-nand,2741.html
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Matthew C Jones said:
Privy = No. Microsoft has a developer web page: Migrating 32-bit Managed Code to 64-bit => http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms973190.aspx
Mono supports 32 bit and 64 bit => http://www.mono-project.com/Supported_Platforms (noticed x86-64 with OS X); Mac OS X page documents 64 bit issues => http://www.mono-project.com/Mono:OSX
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Ahh, MSDN, or whatever they are calling it now. If I get brave enough I will check it out. I don't have enough lifespan left to get up to speed. I just want to read my Logos library.
Somewhere I've got Apple Developer Connection (first CD through OSX convention DVDs), IBM Developer Connection (all), MSDN (1989 ~ .until .Net)
I long for my childhood days of GW Basic & Commander Keen. (And Computer Shopper's Bill & Alice in the lab of DOOM & Pepsi Cola.)
I'll let the Logos developers migrate everything to 64 bit.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Matthew C Jones said:
I long for my childhood days of GW Basic & Commander Keen. (And Computer Shopper's Bill & Alice in the lab of DOOM & Pepsi Cola.)
Lunar Lander (text based - enter thrust for each second of descent).
Matthew C Jones said:I'll let the Logos developers migrate everything to 64 bit.
Concur - dreaming of cross platform Logos 4 agnostic version (can run 32-bit or 64-bit).
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Lunar Lander (text based - enter thrust for each second of descent).
Those were the days! Instead of overclocking CPUs we would slow everything down to keep playing the classic games. Otherwise that Lunar Lander would crash in 2 seconds flat. And Asteroids was 1 second duration. Gimme back the TRS-80. [co]
Naw, on second thought let me keep Logos 4 and you can have the 5.25" floppies of Godspeed, BibleMaster & ChiWriter.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Matthew C Jones said:
Anybody notice the shortened start-up music for Logos 4?
Start-up music? What start-up music? I wouldn't have noticed a change. I've got sounds disabled in Logos so I don't hear it at all. I find start-up sounds in any software to be irritating and silly.
Logos 4 agnostic version
Hmm, what resources would that version include? [:)]
Living Without God: New Directions for Atheists, Agnostics, Secularists, and the Undecided
Why I Am an Agnostic and Other Essays, by Clarrence Darrow
Etc.
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Rosie Perera said:
God Doesn’t Believe in Atheists: Proof That the Atheist Doesn’t ExistPreaching God's Compassion: Comforting Those Who Suffer
Technical observation: found agnostic descripton on Microsoft developer web page: Migrating 32-bit Managed Code to 64-bit => http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms973190.aspx
Keep Smiling [:)]
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I agree with Ben. For the cost I think a hybrid drive is the way to go.
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Matthew C Jones said:
Naw, on second thought let me keep Logos 4 and you can have the 5.25" floppies of Godspeed, BibleMaster & ChiWriter.
Classic! :-)
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OK, Sending me to NovaBench was a funny joke all you MacAddicts. (Have you looked at the all-time best scores? They all seem to be running Mac OS X.)
Now on to my Momentus hybrid ssd/700rpm laptop drive:
tada! It has a 21 MB/sec Write speed. When I compare my over-all ratings I realize I must be mellowing with age. My pitiful score of 265 is due to slower & lower RAM, a dual core CPU, and other planned obsolescence.
PassMark: 
Things fare better under PassMark. All things considered; while it is nowhere as fast as an SSD drive it isn't bad for a $130 upgrade. (500GB)This laptop boots Logos 4 from icon click to start-up sound in 23 seconds. It takes 13 seconds after start-up sound to fill the home page. but that may have more to do with my internet speed [:D] Yep. Now I'm bragging. [:D]
.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Matthew C Jones said:
Now on to my Momentus hybrid ssd/7200rpm laptop drive:
tada! It has a 21 MB/sec Write speed.
Thanks, Matt. Appreciated.
I just tried NovaBench again (just the disk write speed), and it gave me 73MB/s first try, 68MB/s second and third attempt, 67MB/s on the fourth run, and 65MB/s when I ran all tests.
There's no question that loading Logos 4 is much faster with this Hybrid drive. I can't directly compare to your numbers, as I have disabled both the startup sound and the home page. If I close it and then open it again (best scenario for the hybrid), it takes 16 seconds from clicking the Logos 4 icon until the text of the books appears on screen.
Setup:
- Logos 4.2 SR2 [4.20.4.8828]
- Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit [6.1.7600]
- CPU: Intel i7 Q740 @ 1.73GHz
- RAM: 4GB DDR3 @ 1066
- GPU: nVidia GT 330M (1GB DDR3 dedicated)
- Toshiba Satellite A660-007U
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said:
If so, I will move on to Win7 64-bit. That would really speed up indexing.
