College Press -- Bible Study Textbook series
There was a series in the 70's published by College Press (Joplin, MO) called The Bible Study Textbook Series.. It featured quite a few good authors. Jack Cottrell is one of those authors that already appears in some Libronix releases.
The set was put together well and featured outlines, maps and clear writing. I'm pretty sure the set is out of print and won't be published again. A complete set has been posted online in scanned PDF format for free downloading.(Thanks to College Press for being so generous!) I just wondered if they could be persuaded to allow it to be published in Libronix format?
This would be a nice set for a comprehensive survey. I've already enjoyed it in PDF form for a long time.
The Authors: T. R. Applebury, Robert E. Black, Don Earl Boatman, Paul T. Butler, Jack Cottrell, C. C. Crawford, Don DeWelt, Brant Lee Doty, Grayson H. Ensign, Wilbur Fields, Harold Fowler, Clinton Gill, Donald Hunt, B. W. Johnson, R. J. Kidwell, Bruce Oberst, Ruben Ratzlaff, Gareth Reese, J. B. Rotherham, James E. Smith, James Strauss, W. Wartick, Seth Wilson, W. W. Winter
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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I would heartily second this recommendation. I "cut my eye teeth" on this set of commentaries while in Bible College. I, too, have all of the available PDF and you can search them, but that search is VERY limited. Putting them into Logos format would be a great step for the Kingdom.
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Matthew, thanks for the link. Would love to see these in Logos as well. Perhaps someone will turn them into PBBs.
I have several of those books on my shelves from my Ozark Bible College days, and am downloading others from your link. Will never forget Seth Wilson's Life of Christ classes.
Kudos to College Press for their big vision in making available for download the books they are not reprinting. That's great.
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Thanks for the link, very good commentaries indeed. I would like to see it in Libronix format too!
"And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free", John 8:32.
"你們必定認識真理，真理必定使你們自由", 約翰福音 8:3.0 -
I also would like to see this put into logos.
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does anybody know if these have been put into PBB format? They are spotty, but some I really like to use. Fowler's on Matthew, especially. I think the Isaiah one, too.
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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How is this done? Isn't there a tool to turn them in to PBB? I am just wondering if we all could work on it? I agree that this would be a great resource.
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Gerard G. Blankenbaker said:
How is this done? Isn't there a tool to turn them in to PBB? I am just wondering if we all could work on it? I agree that this would be a great resource.
the tool is not available (yet) for L4, but there is for L3.
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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I think it would be great to work together on this one.
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I just talked with Steve Jennings from College Press about getting the BST series into Logos (aka "Green Commentaries"). A few points to note:
- There still is a copyright on them
- They are not planning to ever re-release them, so they are open to "something" happening with them.
- They would like to make something off of them, if possible, but he wasn't in a position to say how much. They are a company that has been reduced to a staff of 3 full-timers.
- He expects that Logos would have to want to publish the Green series (of course), and is unsure of the market for them.
Here are my thoughts based on that conversation:
- If not the whole series (it is kind of spotty), what if we constructed a list of the top 10 (or whatever) commentaries we'd like to see in Logos. I, for one, would like Harold Fowler's 4-volumes on Matthew.
- Would Logos still be able to do community pricing if these are not public domain? Perhaps College Press would not ask much for them anyway, given as we can download them for free off of their website.
- If Logos cannot, or will not, publish this series, Steve suggested we could ask College Press directly about getting them into PBB format (which is currently NOT legally done, as they are still subject to copyright.
- We need to find out from Logos what THEY would be willing to do--Community Pricing, Pre-Pub, or . . . nothing. And they in turn probably want to gauge the interest level (which I think would be best done via CP, if that is possible given that this series is not public domain. Who should we contact? Dan Pritchett?
- I would think that for the right price, some of these would be quite marketable to the wider Logos community. They are more than just commentaries, but, as textbooks, are quite helpful for teachers and students alike, whether for personal study, or for building lessons.
Your thoughts?
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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Dan DeVilder said:
If not the whole series (it is kind of spotty), what if we constructed a list of the top 10
NO. Stick with the whole series. No series is consistently of the same calibre throughout. Even series like NICNT or Yale Anchor Bible. Single author series always have their strong & weak spots too. If we don't go for the whole set up front we will never get it. The people who really want it would buy the set.
Dan DeVilder said:Would Logos still be able to do community pricing if these are not public domain? Perhaps College Press would not ask much for them anyway, given as we can download them for free off of their website.
Yes, Logos could if rights were obtainable. College Press wants these to be out there and used. I doubt the price would be high.
I just did. Let's wait and see....................................................... waiting.........................waiting...............[*-)]Dan DeVilder said:Who should we contact? Dan Pritchett?
Dan DeVilder said:are more than just commentaries, but, as textbooks, are quite helpful for teachers and students alike,
There are other "textbooks" available in Logos but none quite like these. The Foundation of Biblical Ministry (AM Bible Courseware) http://www.logos.com/products/details/2191 comes to mind but it requires enrollment and is a practical education. The College Press stuff lends itself well to classroom or self-directed study. I would love using them teaching a small group study. The outlines and chapter questions are well done.Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Matthew C Jones said:Dan DeVilder said:
If not the whole series (it is kind of spotty), what if we constructed a list of the top 10
NO. Stick with the whole series. No series is consistently of the same calibre throughout. Even series like NICNT or Yale Anchor Bible. Single author series always have their strong & weak spots too. If we don't go for the whole set up front we will never get it. The people who really want it would buy the set.
the price goes up infinitely then (so to speak), and look at Barnes languishing.
Matthew C Jones said:The outlines and chapter questions are well done.
What particular volumes do you especially like?
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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Genesis (bonus: great handling of higher criticism)Dan DeVilder said:Matthew C Jones said:The outlines and chapter questions are well done.
What particular volumes do you especially like?
Psalms (delves into the Psalms on several different levels. )
Matthew
Revelation (by Strauss -because of the lesson format)
Everything by Don DeWelt (especially Acts)
Everything by Wilbur Fields (especially OT History - curiously no longer available in PDF)
Christian Doctrine by C.C. Crawford (looks loosely like a Church of Christ catechism.)I still want everything in the set!
btw: Crawford as much as gave up copyrightr in his prologue to the Doctrine volumes 3&4, "This policy of always having to give “credit” for the use of anything put in print is being carried to ridiculous extremes today. Besides, no one has any copyright on divine truth, and “there is no new thing under the sun” (Eccl. 1:9) anyway." Well, maybe not given up his righs but he wants Christians to benefit from them. [:)]
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Matthew C Jones said:
Everything by Wilbur Fields (especially OT History - curiously no longer available in PDF)
Matthew, Wilbur Fields is already available in Logos. It was part of a package from College Press that was offered last fall or early winter. It IS nice to see it in Logos format.
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Bill Shewmaker said:
Wilbur Fields is already available in Logos
How embarrassing. [:$] I bought The College Press Biblical Studies Ciollection (6 vols.) http://www.logos.com/products/details/4520 on Pre-Pub. How embarrassing.
HEY! I am so blessed I can't even keep up with it all. As nice as Mark Barnes' bookshelf bibliography app is, I've never scrolled down the whole thing nor read each individual title I've got in Portfolio. I haven't printed out a hard copy of a bibliography "collection" either. But you would think I would remember buying a Pre-Pub of a favorite I've owned in hardback since the 1970's! Is that a sign of old age?
Thanks Bill. You've brightened up my day.
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Dan DeVilder said:
Would Logos still be able to do community pricing if these are not public domain? Perhaps College Press would not ask much for them anyway, given as we can download them for free off of their website.
I think this would be a good option for community pricing.
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If they are free to download as pdf's then why would they care if they were converted to a Logos format? They would still be for personal use. I am not sure why they would want to make a profit just because they become available in a different format?
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Gerard G. Blankenbaker said:
If they are free to download as pdf's then why would they care if they were converted to a Logos format? They would still be for personal use. I am not sure why they would want to make a profit just because they become available in a different format?
Gerard, that is certainly a good point to raise. The impression I got was a) they are still technically copyrighted, and b) College Press is "pressed" as an organization, and in source of income would be helpful to them. I understand they only have 3 full timers on staff, which is kind of hard to comprehend!
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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Dan DeVilder said:Gerard G. Blankenbaker said:
If they are free to download as pdf's then why would they care if they were converted to a Logos format? They would still be for personal use. I am not sure why they would want to make a profit just because they become available in a different format?
Gerard, that is certainly a good point to raise. The impression I got was a) they are still technically copyrighted, and b) College Press is "pressed" as an organization, and in source of income would be helpful to them. I understand they only have 3 full timers on staff, which is kind of hard to comprehend!
And the people who did the work should be paid for their work.
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Great suggestion! I'd also love to see James Burton Coffman on Libronix and why not - The Gospel Advocate NT set - even though it's now considered way too simple and outdated. But Coffman would definetly be a great buy! For now, I'm really learning to enjoy College Press OT collection - very practical.
My suggestion is to put Wendell Winkler's Sound Doctrine Series and the other Bible Study series by him and his sons. Those would be very useful in logos format. Another suggestion would be to put all of Wayne Jackson's books on Logos format. Wayne Jackson runs a very helpful and insightful website that you all might be familiar with -- www.christiancourier.com
Anyway, great suggestions!
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Bump. [:D]
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Matthew C Jones said:
Bump.
your bump exactly one year from the last post. [:)]
I don't know what the chances are for this series, but who knows! We don't really get to hear what Logos thinks about one series or the other that are suggested. . .
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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Dan DeVilder said:
I don't know what the chances are for this series, but who knows!
Chances would be better than most. The various authors did not prevent it from being posted for free in PDF format. College Press does not market these for a profit. The paper version is out of print so there would be no loss of sales. It seems obvious the copyright holders WANT this to be accessible.
Another plus in this equation is the set is already scanned in PDF format (done well, I might add) so converting to Logos file format should be easier than most projects.
The set is respected and desirable. I bet if it went into Community Pricing it would graduate rather quickly.
(How is that for another bump? [;)] )
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sounds like a Perspective Book Bump to me.. [:D]
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Matthew C Jones said:Dan DeVilder said:
I don't know what the chances are for this series, but who knows!
Chances would be better than most. The various authors did not prevent it from being posted for free in PDF format. College Press does not market these for a profit. The paper version is out of print so there would be no loss of sales. It seems obvious the copyright holders WANT this to be accessible.
Another plus in this equation is the set is already scanned in PDF format (done well, I might add) so converting to Logos file format should be easier than most projects.
The set is respected and desirable. I bet if it went into Community Pricing it would graduate rather quickly.
(How is that for another bump?
)Bumpin' right along with ya. I agree with your analysis. But i mean, what does Logos think about it?
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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Dan DeVilder said:Matthew C Jones said:Dan DeVilder said:
I don't know what the chances are for this series, but who knows!
Chances would be better than most. The various authors did not prevent it from being posted for free in PDF format. College Press does not market these for a profit. The paper version is out of print so there would be no loss of sales. It seems obvious the copyright holders WANT this to be accessible.
Another plus in this equation is the set is already scanned in PDF format (done well, I might add) so converting to Logos file format should be easier than most projects.
The set is respected and desirable. I bet if it went into Community Pricing it would graduate rather quickly.
(How is that for another bump?
)Bumpin' right along with ya. I agree with your analysis. But i mean, what does Logos think about it?
I'll join in on this bump...I have the complete set in PDF (I used to have the complete set in paper, but gave it to a beginning preacher so he could have some solid material). In the PDF format, we can at least search its contents...just not quite like Logos would do. I still use it from time to time to teach from, also.
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i wonder if we could transfer the PDFs into a PBB series?
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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Dan DeVilder said:
i wonder if we could transfer the PDFs into a PBB series?
I'll try some if you will!!! And I haven't even tried the PBB yet.
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I have it in PDF and was hoping this is one of the first things done in PBB .....
I want to retain the outlines, maps, charts & study questions.
I haven't done any tinkering with PBB beta and have only read the help file. My wife is better at Word 2010 than I & I am a slow typer [:(]
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Dan DeVilder said:
i wonder if we could transfer the PDFs into a PBB series?
Because these works of art are still copyrighted, they cannot be converted to PBB without the written permission of the copyright holder.
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tom collinge said:Dan DeVilder said:
i wonder if we could transfer the PDFs into a PBB series?
Because these works of art are still copyrighted, they cannot be converted to PBB without the written permission of the copyright holder.
You are right. We can be hopeful that permission will not be as difficult to obtain as usual since College Press has made these works available online for free already. But it still must be done legally.
If one wants to avoid the copyright jungle for their first PBB experiment, go grab a little book from the 1880's and give it a go. A good scanner, OCR software and LibreOffice can get it done without major headaches. Surely there are some poets out there who would share a collection in PBB.....
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sigh, i don't feel I have time to try that right now, but I had thought about it. \
I thought the Green series was out of copyright. I guess I just assumed because they were downloadable for free. And, if I knew they were out of copyright, then obviously I forgot. [:)]
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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Dan DeVilder said:
I thought the Green series was out of copyright. I guess I just assumed because they were downloadable for free. And, if I knew they were out of copyright, then obviously I forgot.
I still think College Press would be easier than most to get permission from. I was looking at the PDF files and they are locked as read only. I have Adobe Acrobat Pro and know how to change the settings but I thought CP locked them for a reason. I will try to find out if permission can be obtained. They are still rebuilding the tornado damage in Joplin. The Bible college got hit. I don't know about the College Press offices.
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Super Tramp said:Dan DeVilder said:
I thought the Green series was out of copyright. I guess I just assumed because they were downloadable for free. And, if I knew they were out of copyright, then obviously I forgot.
I still think College Press would be easier than most to get permission from. I was looking at the PDF files and they are locked as read only. I have Adobe Acrobat Pro and know how to change the settings but I thought CP locked them for a reason. I will try to find out if permission can be obtained. They are still rebuilding the tornado damage in Joplin. The Bible college got hit. I don't know about the College Press offices.
I'd be interested in knowing what you find out. I remember a couple years ago talking with one of their guys. He seemed open to the idea, but I seem to remember him leaving the ball in Logos' court. I was not asking about PBB, however, back then. I also remember they had like 1.5 full time employees, which seemed weird to me. So, who knows how long it might take, given recent troubles. I sure would like Matthew in PBB.
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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Super Tramp said:
The Bible college got hit. I don't know about the College Press offices.
Super Tramp, not sure where you got your information, but the college did NOT get hit. They have offered their dorms as housing relief for several families this summer. FEMA was using part of their parking lot to do some staging for relief efforts. Their chapel is being used by one of the local churches that was heavily damaged, but the college did NOT get hit. Don't mean to sound antagonistic, but need to "set the record straight". AND I don't think that CP offices were affected either.
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I agree that would be a good addition. There is also a series from Standard Publishing entitles the "Standard Bible Studies" which are very practical and applicable commentaries. This is one out of print as well but would be a welcome addition to our logos library.
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Bill Shewmaker said:
Super Tramp, not sure where you got your information, but the college did NOT get hit. They have offered their dorms as housing relief for several families this summer. FEMA was using part of their parking lot to do some staging for relief efforts. Their chapel is being used by one of the local churches that was heavily damaged, but the college did NOT get hit. Don't mean to sound antagonistic, but need to "set the record straight". AND I don't think that CP offices were affected either.
Super Tramp said:The Bible college got hit. I don't know about the College Press offices.
Thank you for correcting me. I was told by a third party (no one at the campus) that the good folk at Ozark are busy with repair and rebuilding efforts from the tornado's aftermath. Maybe the grapevine corrupted the communication. I assumed this meant they were victims. I now see how they can be busy being rescuers for others.
The context of my conversation was about another project requiring files in the Ozark Christian College library. I decided to wait a few months due to the report of their "busy-ness". My project is not as important as what they are doing. I don't want to get in the way.
It is good of you to set the record straight. Thanks again. [:$]
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Super Tramp said:
I decided to wait a few months due to the report of their "busy-ness".
Students will begin moving back in this weekend. RA's etc., are already there. The response of the church to the disaster in Joplin really has the Fed's wondering how it could be accomplished so quickly (as opposed to their "rapid response teams). Some of the Staff and Faculty were affected by the tornado and are now getting ready for a new school year. It may take several months (or years) for "normalcy" to return.
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Super Tramp said:
There was a series in the 70's published by College Press (Joplin, MO) called The Bible Study Textbook Series.. It featured quite a few good authors. Jack Cottrell is one of those authors that already appears in some Libronix releases.
I am assuming that this new pre-pub is the set you were talking about.
My question - is it worth the price? It certainly seems reasonable (but maybe not if you can get the pdf's for no cost).
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Taxee said:Super Tramp said:
There was a series in the 70's published by College Press (Joplin, MO) called The Bible Study Textbook Series.. It featured quite a few good authors. Jack Cottrell is one of those authors that already appears in some Libronix releases.
I am assuming that this new pre-pub is the set you were talking about.
My question - is it worth the price? It certainly seems reasonable (but maybe not if you can get the pdf's for no cost).
I just looked at the screen prints; yes they are the same.
Is it worth the price - this something that you need to make the decision about.
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tom collinge said:Taxee said:Super Tramp said:
There was a series in the 70's published by College Press (Joplin, MO) called The Bible Study Textbook Series.. It featured quite a few good authors. Jack Cottrell is one of those authors that already appears in some Libronix releases.
I am assuming that this new pre-pub is the set you were talking about.
My question - is it worth the price? It certainly seems reasonable (but maybe not if you can get the pdf's for no cost).
I just looked at the screen prints; yes they are the same.
Is it worth the price - this something that you need to make the decision about.
This is the OLD green textbooks...the series from the 70's with Jack Cottrell and others is a completely different series...they are "What the Bible Says About..." series. Those NEW commentaries were a marroon color. They were commentaries on topics rather than specific Bible books.
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Super Tramp, what project are you talking about that requires files from the OCC library? I teach there, but have not been involved in this thread until today, when I found out (Thanks, Bill!) that the ugly green College Press commentaries went on the Pre-Pub page.
If I can help with any files, I'd be happy to do so.
I have enjoyed making some Personal Books recently, for my own class work. We just started requiring Logos 4 Scholar's Library for our hermeneutics classes, beginning this semester, so in a few years, all of our students will have it. That will make the creation of Personal Books very important for our work.
MacBook Air M1 16GB RAM | Mac Mini M1 8GB RAM | iMac 24" M1 16GB RAM | iPad Pro (plus some Windows laptops relegated to disuse)
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Bump.
Douglas Alvarenga said:I'd also love to see James Burton Coffman on Libronix and why not - The Gospel Advocate NT set - even though it's now considered way too simple and outdated. But Coffman would definetly be a great buy! For now, I'm really learning to enjoy College Press OT collection - very practical.
Now that the College Press Bible Study Textbook Series (Green Set) is now a reality in Pre-Pub, can we ask again for James Burton Coffman and Gospel Advocate NT Commentary?
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The Gospel Advocate Commentary Series would be fantastic to have in LOGOS.
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Bill Turner said:
The Gospel Advocate Commentary Series would be fantastic to have in LOGOS.
I totally agree with you. G A would be an awesome set of commentaries in Logos. I have them in one of my other Bible Study programs, so I have access to them now, but they would be so much better in Logos!
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Bill Shewmaker said:
G A would be an awesome set of commentaries in Logos. I have them in one of my other Bible Study programs, so I have access to them now, but they would be so much better in Logos!
Same here with the Coffman Commentaries. Worst part is Gospel Advocate is in one program, Coffman in another and neither is in Logos. Having three programs open is not that cool.
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David Fish said:
Super Tramp, what project are you talking about that requires files from the OCC library? I teach there, but have not been involved in this thread until today, when I found out (Thanks, Bill!) that the ugly green College Press commentaries went on the Pre-Pub page.
If I can help with any files, I'd be happy to do so.
I worked in the library of Midwest Christian College before the holdings were moved to Ozark. We had a large collection of missionary newsletters and related materials that would be of great historical interest. I know of a similar collection at Manhattan Christian College and suspect Ozark and others would have similar valuable collections. My goal would be to present a wide survey of the history of Restoration Movement missionaries.
Around 1968 a book titled "The Church Abroad" by Lora Banks Harrison did a good job of this with what resources were available at the time. I would love to see a modern presentation for a more complete record. Many of the missionaries I knew in Japan are passing away. I have no idea how copyright laws may prevent using mission newsletters to preserve the histories. It may already be an impossible project.
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Logos Bible Software has this set in preparation for publishing in Logos, awaiting sufficient subscribers to justify their doing so. The pre-pub price is set at $229. A good bargain. We just need those interested to sign up and they will proceed when they get sufficient subscribers.
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WordSearch has the Gospel Advocate series digitized and available for downloading.
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The amount of solid Bible reference material in this series makes the price a good deal, this Bible Textbook Series is solid. The four volumes on Matthew by Harold Fowler is rich in reference and application, I really appreciate my hard bound copies, but waiting for this to make it into LOGOS. I highly recommend this set!
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Bill Turner said:
The four volumes on Matthew by Harold Fowler is rich in reference and application,
totally agree. I used it alot in seminary for a research paper on Matt 16. (and have used it since, too) his knowledge of Italian and occasional reference to an Italian commentator was interesting, too.
Dan
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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