No more access to purchased content
Is this the end of the Logos APP ?
The New York Times reports that Apple has begun rejecting App Store submissions for applications that offer users the ability to purchase content from outside the company's in-app purchasing mechanism. One of the major applications reportedly rejected under this policy change is Sony's Reader application that would have allowed iOS device users to view eBook content downloaded from its Reader Store.
The company has told some applications developers, including Sony, that they can no longer sell content, like e-books, within their apps, or let customers have access to purchases they have made outside the App Store.
Apple rejected Sony's iPhone application, which would have let people buy and read e-books bought from the Sony Reader Store.
Apple told Sony that from now on, all in-app purchases would have to go through Apple, said Steve Haber, president of Sony's digital reading division
Comments
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This is bad. TechCrunch's commentary is worth reading: http://techcrunch.com/2011/01/31/apple-reportedly-blocks-sony-reader-app-could-spell-war-with-kindle/
But I suspect Apple will have to back down under pressure. That's what's happened before.
(P.S. - If you can still edit your post - use the more link - you might want to add a question mark to the end of your title!)
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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This is bad. TechCrunch's commentary is worth reading: http://techcrunch.com/2011/01/31/apple-reportedly-blocks-sony-reader-app-could-spell-war-with-kindle/
But I suspect Apple will have to back down under pressure. That's what's happened before.
(P.S. - If you can still edit your post - use the more link - you might want to add a question mark to the end of your title!)
I am sure that they will back down because it would play into the hands of Android. Good point about the question mark but I cannot edit the title now.
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This is bad. TechCrunch's commentary is worth reading: http://techcrunch.com/2011/01/31/apple-reportedly-blocks-sony-reader-app-could-spell-war-with-kindle/
But I suspect Apple will have to back down under pressure. That's what's happened before.
(P.S. - If you can still edit your post - use the more link - you might want to add a question mark to the end of your title!)
I am sure that they will back down because it would play into the hands of Android. Good point about the question mark but I cannot edit the title now.
If they stuck to their guns, It would definitely be the deciding factor on my future IPad purchase, and a transition to the IPhone when my contract is up. Of course, I would have had to get both past my wife first, But I wouldn't even consider getting them if Android offered me access and Apple didn't.
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Apple has App Store submission tips => http://developer.apple.com/news/ios/appstoretips/ with Dec 7, 2010 entry including link to iTunes Connect Developer Guide - page 134 interesting to read about in-app purchasing.
Currently, Logos does not offer in-app purchasing (all sales done via Logos representatives or web site).
Observation: potential impact for Amazon's "Shop In Kindle Store" button that opens Safari to Amazon's Kindle Store web page.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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The key phrase in my post is;
"or let customers have access to purchases they have made outside the App Store"
This would mean that even books purchased on your PC or Mac could not be used on the iphone/ipad.
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that decides me not to think further about buying an iPad unless and until apple solve this problem to my satisfaction [:P]
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Was reading different article http://www.electronista.com/articles/11/02/01/raises.questions.over.the.future.of.kindle.app/ that mentions in-app pruchasing, then looked for Apple information - learned Apple only approves purchasing in-app via Apple's store.
The key phrase in my post is;
"or let customers have access to purchases they have made outside the App Store"
This would mean that even books purchased on your PC or Mac could not be used on the iphone/ipad.
Then followed link to NY Times article that has quoted sentence. Related article is http://www.itworld.com/node/133817 - Apple planning to remove free iPad applications for European newspaper subscriptions later this year. Appears Apple wants 30% cut of music, book, magazine, and newspaper purchases.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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The Logos executive team really needs to weigh in on this ASAP. I've been planning an iPad purchase the moment "v2" is released, and it's almost completely so I can read Logos resources more conveniently.
More reasons why I have such distaste for Apple...
Donnie
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Nothing definitive yet, but some more comments...
http://mashable.com/2011/02/01/sony-apple-ebook-dispute/
Donnie
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Nothing definitive yet, but some more comments...
Learned Sony does in-app purchasing on Mac and PC using their Reader Library software => http://ebookstore.sony.com/howitworks/ which would be a violation of Apple's iOS guidance that all in-app purchasing use Apple iTunes.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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The Mashable article has an update: "Apple spokesperson Trudy Miller tells us, “We have not changed our
developer terms or guidelines. We are now requiring that if an app
offers customers the ability to purchase books outside of the app, that
the same option is also available to customers from within the app with
in-app purchase.”This is not necessarily a bad thing, though would require obvious additional programming work from Logos, and would reduce Logos' income if too many people used it. Olivetree work by offering both in-app or website purchasing, and it's very useful.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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I just stumbled upon this book sales dilemma while skimming through tech news blogs and immediately thought of LOGOS. I purchased an iPad based almost completely on the promise of the LOGOS app. I came to the forums and found out the topic is already being covered (good work!). I agree that accomodating apple would require extra programming, but it could open LOGOS up to the "unreached" and actually boost sales. Creative pricing could make full price purchases the only avenue via in-app acquisitions while reduced (regular rate) purchases could continue on site. This would defray the "bite" Apple takes out of the purchase price. Or maybe that is unethical? Perhaps it is best that I am not involved in marketing or sales
."How soon are we broken on the soft pillow of ease! Adam in paradise was overcome, when Job on the dunghill was a conqueror."
THOMAS WATSON
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This is not necessarily a bad thing, though would require obvious additional programming work from Logos, and would reduce Logos' income if too many people used it.
Losing 30% of the purchase price is pretty significant for much of what Logos sells. Logos could up the price of in-app purchases by ~30%. This would not be simple, but it would address the profit issue and it would serve to keep most people buying resources through the website.
If it came down to it, though, I suspect Logos would pull off the iOS platform, and I wouldn't really be able to blame them if they did, though I certainly don't want them to. I defend Apple's right to do business as they please, but I think they are making the wrong choice here. I can see them wanting to prevent people from looking for ways around Apple's in-app sales percentage, but Apple shouldn't penalize companies that have historically used a web-based model for sales.
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Logos could up the price of in-app purchases by ~30%.
Observation: $ 142.86 * 70 % = $ 100.00 (with 30 % cut of $ 42.86). Hence, in-app iPad purchasing needs 42.86 % price increase so Logos (and publishers) would receive same amount compared to $ 100.00 purchase using Logos web site.
Wonder if Apple would allow in-app purchasing Banner Ad: Discounted prices available at web site store, allowing consumer to choose.
Followed AppleInsider article link => http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/02/01/apple_denies_claim_that_sony_reader_kindle_in_danger_on_ios_app_store.html to Digital Daily => http://digitaldaily.allthingsd.com/20110201/apple-on-sony-reader-we-have-not-changed-our-guidelines/
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Seems like digital publishers are not happy:
Director of Zoeproject
www.zoeproject.com
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Interesting article:
Director of Zoeproject
www.zoeproject.com
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Tony,
Thanks for keeping on top of all this stuff. I will not be purchasing an iPad2 after it is released until this problem is addressed by the Logos team. Logos is the main reason I even want one of these over other tablets. Right now, I am just glad I held off at Christmas in the hopes that the 2nd gen iPads would be along soon.
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Logos team,
Please comment regarding Apple's latest change and it's effect on the Logos App. We all understand that you may yet be trying to figure out what this means to you, as well.
Thanks!!!
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I do not work for Apple or even own any stock... Sony has always sold their works only through their programs. There is no way to order a book but through their software. In application purchases are now and always have been (as I understand it) contrary to iOS policy. Sony insisted on submitting their reader allowing for in app purchases. Apple has never had a problem With people purchasing ebooks through safari. Or allowing us to sync our own books to our devices. My speculation like many other analysts is Apple wanting to have companies play by their rules, not change the rules.
If Apple ever tried to enforce the rule that all content much go through them they would loose much of their content and most of their customers. If there is no flexibility in what you can read and how you can purchase items. It becomes a lame duck OS that is rather pointless. Apple is wanting to make sure it does get a cut of periodicals sales which are meant to be more or less an in App thing, and that makes sense to me. Publishers are charging for a subscription and the iOS is the publishing media. The ink paper and distribution are major costs in a magazine or news paper. The new newcorp Daily is an example, as is playboy and likely numerous others that haven't made the news, while i am not planing on subscribing to either of the mentioned publications these and I am sure others find it a fair thing.
Logos should in no way ever be affected because you are not buying works or your iPAD you are logging in to the servers and reading things you own. You never have been able to buy things with your Logos APP. I just talked to Apple and they assured me (for whatever that is worth), they have no intention of banning any ereader, just restrict in app purchasing to apple guidelines.
Before we declare the sky is falling it is best to investigate things a bit. I am a happy apple customer of 20 years yet if they did that I never buy any iOS device again, also they would almost certainly be violating laws on competition.
-Dan
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I do not work for Apple or even own any stock... Sony has always sold their works only through their programs. There is no way to order a book but through their software. In application purchases are now and always have been (as I understand it) contrary to iOS policy. Sony insisted on submitting their reader allowing for in app purchases. Apple has never had a problem With people purchasing ebooks through safari. Or allowing us to sync our own books to our devices. My speculation like many other analysts is Apple wanting to have companies play by their rules, not change the rules.
If Apple ever tried to enforce the rule that all content much go through them they would loose much of their content and most of their customers. If there is no flexibility in what you can read and how you can purchase items. It becomes a lame duck OS that is rather pointless. Apple is wanting to make sure it does get a cut of periodicals sales which are meant to be more or less an in App thing, and that makes sense to me. Publishers are charging for a subscription and the iOS is the publishing media. The ink paper and distribution are major costs in a magazine or news paper. The new newcorp Daily is an example, as is playboy and likely numerous others that haven't made the news, while i am not planing on subscribing to either of the mentioned publications these and I am sure others find it a fair thing.
Logos should in no way ever be affected because you are not buying works or your iPAD you are logging in to the servers and reading things you own. You never have been able to buy things with your Logos APP. I just talked to Apple and they assured me (for whatever that is worth), they have no intention of banning any ereader, just restrict in app purchasing to apple guidelines.
Before we declare the sky is falling it is best to investigate things a bit. I am a happy apple customer of 20 years yet if they did that I never buy any iOS device again, also they would almost certainly be violating laws on competition.
-Dan
I think you may be mistaken - Sony was not including an in app purchase. Actually what Apple now requires is that those offering content for purchase outside the app (ala Kindle and Logos) also provide in app purchasing for the same. When a customer chooses to purchase through the app then Apple will take a 30% cut. They have given existing apps until the 30th June to comply.
Any chance we will hear from Logos about this?0 -
Dan,
I have read the public statements closely. As many of the articles linked by Tom indicate, there is at least some reason to believe the changes require all content purchased outside of the app to be available for purchase inside the app through the app store, also. Any content not available in the Apple system, would not be available on the device. This seems to be the thrust of Apple's public statements, but I hope your inside info is correct. In any case, consider the vast amount of publicity the Sony vs. Apple dispute is receiving, it cannot be in anyone's best interest to leave these things uncertain for very long. At the very least, a re-clarification by Apple is probably warranted.
Thanks,
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I did say that it was simple what apple told me. If they do that I can;t see a long life for the iPAD.
-Dan
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Dan, I agree. I truly hope this has been 'much ado about nothing', but wouldn't chance such a large purchase, until things are certain. I appreciate your sharing the information you received. It does help add some depth to the discussion.
Thanks.
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If they do that I can;t see a long life for the iPAD.
It would not be the first time Apple shot themselves in the foot.
I was just ready to spring for the best iPad. I won't until after Summer time now.
I'd rather spend the extra 30% buying more Logos resources for my computer than have the iPad.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Disclaimer (like Dan) - personally not an Apple employee nor own Apple stock.
Interesting article:
Observation: while journalist linked to Sony's ebookstore web page http://ebookstore.sony.com/ - missed Sony's in app purchasing (cannot buy anything via web page).
I think you may be mistaken - Sony was not including an in app purchase. ...... Sony has always sold their works only through their programs. There is no way to order a book but through their software. ...
Sony was including their own in app purchasing. Looking at Sony's ebookstore web page => http://ebookstore.sony.com/ - no place for account login and purchase (different from Logos, Kindle, Nook, etc). Sony uses their own Reader Library Software for in app purchasing => http://ebookstore.sony.com/howitworks/
Irony: "... that from his early twenties on, Jobs had a fascination with Sony that bordered on obsession. ..." (on page 2) => http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2011/01/28/apop012811.DTL
I have read the public statements closely. As many of the articles linked by Tom indicate, there is at least some reason to believe the changes require all content purchased outside of the app to be available for purchase inside the app through the app store, also. Any content not available in the Apple system, would not be available on the device.
Concur Apple desires in app purchasing be available for content that can be purchased externally. However, have not read that in app purchase price has to be the same as external (anticipating 42.86 % markup for some in app purchasing - pass along Apple's 30 % cut to consumers).
With several free web browsers available for iPad, subscription web page content would remain available (without 30 % to Apple).
After 2 week free subscription to "The Daily" expires later this month, will be interesting to watch subscription sales. If profit generating, can envision many free newspaper and magazine applications changing; journalists like to eat; many newspaper layoffs last year => http://newspaperlayoffs.com/ Appears "The Daily" has compelling content for ongoing subscription (including interaction and video clips). Wonder about future of printed newspapers and magazines ?
Likewise wondering if Logos should offer a subscription Bible Study magazine application on iPhone/iPad, Android, and Biblia.com ? (and digital version for Logos 4 desktop)
Keep Smiling [:)]
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If they do that I can;t see a long life for the iPAD.
It would not be the first time Apple shot themselves in the foot.
I was just ready to spring for the best iPad. I won't until after Summer time now.
I'd rather spend the extra 30% buying more Logos resources for my computer than have the iPad.
Agree in the world of corporate greed nothing is ever certain. http://digitaldaily.allthingsd.com/20110201/apple-on-sony-reader-we-have-not-changed-our-guidelines/ Apple denies any change in TOS, yes there are obviously new terms of service for the forth coming magazine and news paper subscriptions. I do remember reading one large paper was selling subscriptions to access their iOS app, but that Apple informed them that this will change , the app either had to be open to all people without subscription in the future or had to follow the forth coming guidelines. Apple might well shoot themselves in the foot but from what apple has said, including about Kindle and BN applications are ok. Like I said anything is possible, including insanely stupid moves like this would be. But many people have said this was a way to get free publicity care of Apple. Truth is likely somewhere in between, stupid move and misunderstanding. So it might be a good idea to hold off any iPad purchase to the dust settles, unless you want to get it and install apps, unlike google apple doesn't t erase apps of peoples phones and pads. I have several Apps that disappeared from the app store EDIT. The still function perfectly... now I do understand iOS 5 or 6 may make theses apps unusable but for now all I can say is I am not overly worried.
I think Apple is a well run company, I know God is good. Hopefully God will guide believers and unbelievers for the greater good.
-dan
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I'm following this as well. As with other posters, I have some Christmas cash/gift cards waiting to be used on a 2nd gen. iPad but not being able to use the Logos app to the fullest would put a damper on that. I might have to rethink a MBA instead. Although, that wouldn't be as easy to use as a Bible in church or a reader, which was the purpose of an iPad purchase. I have come to love using my iPhone Sunday Morning's now (other then explaining myself to the gawkers and gossips who think the Pastor is texting through the service [:)] ).
"If heaven ain't a gift I ain't gettin' in." - Lecrae Moore
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This is troubling if true:
"Apple has now taken the next step in its attempt to enforce
the app store policy of not allowing iOS apps to use content which was
purchased from an outside source. It's announced that as of March 31st,
all apps must make the content they use available for purchase from
within the app itself — paying Apple the customary 30% which it receives
from every app store transaction."http://www.tecca.com/news/2011/02/03/apple-sets-deadline-for-amazons-kindle-app-to-change/
Director of Zoeproject
www.zoeproject.com
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Another article:
Director of Zoeproject
www.zoeproject.com
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This is troubling if true:
"Apple has now taken the next step in its attempt to enforce
the app store policy of not allowing iOS apps to use content which was
purchased from an outside source. It's announced that as of March 31st,
all apps must make the content they use available for purchase from
within the app itself — paying Apple the customary 30% which it receives
from every app store transaction."http://www.tecca.com/news/2011/02/03/apple-sets-deadline-for-amazons-kindle-app-to-change/
Followed (source) links:
http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-itunes-publishers-2011-2
'Apple has indicated the sales outside of iTunes can continue, as long as
sales through its store are provided as an option. "Rest assured that
we want our customers to be able to get their publications easily both
from our App Store and obviously from websites or other ways they get
them," Mr. Cue said.'Note: Eddy Cue is Apple's vice president of Internet services.
Wall Street Journal article also includes (plus not know how in app enforcement change will affect Kindle):
But the way Apple controls development of publishing apps may be closely
scrutinized. The Federal Trade Commission launched an inquiry last year
to determine whether Apple had violated antitrust laws with
restrictions on the programming technology it allowed to create apps for
its iPhones and iPads, according to people familiar with the matter.
The FTC also investigated whether Apple's conditions unfairly
disadvantaged Google's mobile advertising network, AdMob, on Apple
devices. Apple changed those policies in September.Keep Smiling [:)]
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If this works out the way it looks from these articles, it may well turn out to be a case study in destroying one's market share. Apple has always been very protectionist, but this reeks of short-sightedness. Perhaps their new marketing campaign can be "there's no longer an app for that".
I'd still like to hear the official Logos take on this. Even if that take is "I don't know yet".Thanks for staying on top of this guys.
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