Many disappointments. Slower. Confusing. Layout a mess. Too much info at one time. Not easy to personalize. Tutorials less than basic. Change is not always good. I'll be going back to Logos 3 -poorer.
Sorry your experience was not positive. It doesn't reflect my experiences.
You don't have to be poorer--Logos will give you your money back.
How long have you been using Logos 4? Chances are good that you can get a refund by calling Logos.
I won't try to argue with your findings. I can only say that I prefer L4 over L3 hands down. I've been using it for a year.
Charles, sorry to hear that you're not happy with it. Of course Logos will give you your money back.
But I notice this is your first post on the forums. You might not realize that many people who have upgraded to L4 from L3 have had a similar initial "buyer's remorse" about it. But once they started posting their specific concerns about it, others on the forums were able to help them overcome the learning curve, make the layouts exactly the way they like them, performance tune it, and personalize it. It's just a paradigm shift from L3. There are some much better tutorials than the basic ones Logos offers if you look on the user-created wiki. There are both textual instructions there and some really great tutorial videos. I especially recommend the ones by Mark Barnes.
Don't give up so quickly. You have 30 days to get your money back. Give it your best shot to learn your way around it, and ask for help here. We're eager to help and want people to have a positive experience with Logos. By far the majority of all users who were initially disappointed have stuck it out and become Logos enthusiasts, even though we still are always pushing for Logos to improve the product even more (and they really listen to us). L3 will still be supported for the foreseeable future but it's a dead end product. Logos will not be bringing out new releases of it. So if you want to be able to influence the future direction of the product, you've got to join the L4 bandwagon eventually.
Change is hard. I know. I hope it works out for you.
Peace to you, Charles! And may God give you Joy this day! *smile*(
I, too, am sorry you've had a such bad experience with L4. I loved L3 ....... Used it daily as a "power user"! It permitted me to study God's Holy Word like I had never done before, including Hebrew and Greek. I still maintain my L3 3.0g on my computer, fully up-to-date with all my many purchases. I have over 2700 resources ... However, I could never ever go back. I admit that L4 is very heavy at first. But as you get into it, well ...!! it has become my favourite software since I first got into computers back in 1983 ... Have had Logos from version 1 or 1.6 or whatever during the early 1990's .... absolutely loved it .. Now I go back maybe once or twice and week, thank God for it, and get backing to using L4, usually several hours a day..
Charles, I'm sure Logos will give you a complete refund on L4 if you ask them to. Feel free to ask for a complete refund if you desire.... However, even briefly, please consider, in spite of the disappointments you've experienced, giving it a fair chance.
Your Brother in Christ
. Many disappointments. Slower. Confusing. Layout a mess. Too much info at one time. Not easy to personalize. Tutorials less than basic. Change is not always good. I'll be going back to Logos 3 -poorer.,
I agree with you 100%
. By far the majority of all users who were initially disappointed have stuck it out and become Logos enthusiasts,
And some of us who use to be enthusiasts are no longer enthusiasts because of L4.
. Many disappointments. Slower. Confusing. Layout a mess. Too much info at one time. Not easy to personalize. Tutorials less than basic. Change is not always good. I'll be going back to Logos 3 -poorer., I agree with you 100% . By far the majority of all users who were initially disappointed have stuck it out and become Logos enthusiasts, And some of us who use to be enthusiasts are no longer enthusiasts because of L4.
I had transitional issues as well when first starting in L4- but with a lot of patience (which was sorely needed just on a personal level) and using it consistently- I would never go back.
Find a buddy in your area to work with- sometimes even with Logos mentoring can be an asset.
One of the things about Logos is that it seems it can be utilized in a variety of ways. Usage patterns for different people seem to guide how they perceive each version. Some users seem to be satisfied with the new build. I'm not.
To me, L4 is almost like an idiot savant. For my usage, L3 serves as my daily bread and butter, doing critical things that make L4 seem practically brain dead. But L4 kind of fills in for specialized needs. I use them both side by side. But the things that L4 lost in the "upgrade" (mostly deliberate choices that I would catagorize as design flaws) really disappoint me.
If I had to choose between the two, I'd pick L3 in a heartbeat, but I would certainly miss some of what L4 can do. I just wish L4 hadn't bailed on the multitude of things I use dozens and dozens of times on nearly a daily basis. I am aware that L4 could probably even do more than I ask of it, but I spend so much time doing things in L3 which L4 can't do, that I doubt I will ever figure out all of what 4 can do.
I was at Morris Proctor's first L4 class in TN. It did nothing for me except leave me totally dejected. Bob was there and told me personally that the most important element of my daily Logos usage was deliberately designed out of L4. So I have two different programs now, which is cool in its way, but I often encounter situations where it creates an unnecessary hurdle to my desired usage.
So I can readily identify with the word "disappointment". Sad to say, I feel it nearly every time I fire up L4.
Bob was there and told me personally that the most important element of my daily Logos usage was deliberately designed out of L4
are you referring to the key linking? What exactly is it that you have found L4 unable to do...or at least adequately do?
I didn't read every response - but it seemed like you were getting encouragement and sympathy rather than answers. So let's start over.
1. Slower - true but improving but depends on your equipment and layouts so let's set it aside for a moment.
2. Confusing - yes, it can be confusing to set up especially initially when you are trying to set up priorities for resources to display in. So let's wait on this until we've starting building concrete cases.
3. Layout a mess - if you can tell us what layout you want, we can probably tell you how to get that layout. That would be a major step forward for you.
4. Too much info at one time. Again, this is something you control. Tell us what you don't want to see in your layout and chances are we can tell you how to turn it off.
5. Not easy to personalize ... actually it is easy once you have the building blocks. If there are critical issues, ask the specific questions. Otherwise, wait until you have the layouts and info you want and then we'll tackle this one.
6. Tutorials - I've only watched a few so I'll not give advice here
7. It makes sense to keep using Logos 3 until you are comfortable with Logos 4 and it has all the features critical to you.
So ignore all the __________ and give us concrete examples so that we can work with you.
I'll give Logos 4 a "thunps-up" over Logos 3 period! What was good got much better!!!
But how long will L3 be there for us?
I may have been using Logos 3 wrongly, but I like Logos 4 a lot better in every way.
Bob was there and told me personally that the most important element of my daily Logos usage was deliberately designed out of L4 are you referring to the key linking? What exactly is it that you have found L4 unable to do...or at least adequately do?
I am referrng to the pitiful excuse for a note window in L4. I have hit this same "note" many times before. I use the L3 notes window for presentation. That program allows the pop-up notes window to be as large as the window it is opened in. In L4, the notes pop-up window is a measly 3 inch square--MAX. There's NOTHING that L4 does can compensate for that disaster.
Some have surmised that the "new big thing" that has been announced may be some sort of presentation capability or add-on, but my beef and assertion is that the PROGRAM ITSELF should be purposefully designed to allow its own considerable power to be the presentation. Enhanced notes capability is the key to that...and the pitiful three inch window in L4 is the dagger in the heart of that aspiration.
In L4, the notes pop-up window is a measly 3 inch square--MAX. There's NOTHING that L4 does can compensate for that disaster.
Has Bob really said there is no way they're going to change this limitation? Wasn't that in the days before UserVoice when we could mount a strong front to convince them to change their minds about previous decisions?
It really doesn't seem like it would be that big a deal to change it to allow larger note windows. And if it's that important to you, which it sounds like it is, why not request it and get other on board to vote for it? It sounds like a really useful improvement.
I don't think any small design mistake in L4 is a permanent disaster. This seems like such a minor part of what makes L4 different from L3 that it can't possibly so tightly intertwined with the new architecture that they absolutely cannot change it. And when I say "small design mistake" I don't mean small in its impact on users (obviously it's huge to you), I mean small in its impact on the code.
and the pitiful three inch window in L4 is the dagger in the heart of that aspiration.
Not to argue but to observe: this is the first time I was aware that this was anything much of a limitation. I can't say you are in a unique situation, but that might be close to the case. You must be projecting your Logos screen and want to show your notes in a large enough 'window' to more fully encompass them?
It seems redundant when you're disappointed in L4 to see over and over again the advice to make use of the forums, watch the videos, etc., but it's excellent advice.
When L4 was released last year, I jumped at the chance to upgrade, but the changes were originally a shock to me (although I had been longing for an upgraded version for a few years). The first couple of days I regretted my decision to upgrade. However, I took advantage of the advice, and within a matter of days I was no longer using L3 and fully committed to L4.
Continuous improvement since then and familiarity with how the program works has made it a joy to use.
I've been mystified by those who have had problems with L4 being slower. I've found it to be faster than L3 on my computers, and neither of my laptops is high end. L4 works great on my primary laptop which runs at 1.8 GHZ with 2 GB of RAM.
There is some lag on my netbook, which has only 1 GB of RAM, but that's the computer I carry to church, and I've had no problem making use of L4 on that machine either. It must be ripping along on some of the bigger machines I see described on this forum.
Charles, I think it's worth the investment of your time to continue working with L4, and as many have stated, you can also continue to make use of L3 for those things that seem to work better for you in that version.
It is unfortunate that some features in L3, didn't transfer to L4, but while recognizing that there are exceptions to the rule, most of the things you can already do in L3, you can (or will be able to) do in L4. You just may have to learn how to do it a little differently.
Mark, yes...that is what I do. Not only is it something that I use for presentation in the way you describe, but it is a critical and essential element of my own study. My notes provide the main receptacle of my developing understanding of scripture. Therefore my notes are often elaborate, cutting and pasting from numerous sources. Not having that immediate pop-up is unthinkable to me at this point.
Not having that immediate pop-up is unthinkable to me at this point.
I can see the problem. Again, it is interesting that I have never really thought about this limitation nor heard of it before. However while it would only be a work around, could you just click on the note marker in the text and open the Note File to read the note rather than relying on the pop-up? Seems a shame to desire to study in Logos 4 and have this one thing keep you from doing so.
That program allows the pop-up notes window to be as large as the window it is opened in. In L4, the notes pop-up window is a measly 3 inch square--MAX.
I don't recall who did it but a professor did create a convincing case for how he used L3 in the classroom and why L4 didn't meet his classroom requirements. Make a solid proposal for what professors need to use Logos in the classroom and I think you'll get significant support for getting the issue some priority. I would strongly support if even though its not a feature that matters that much to me - but having professors using Logos in the classroom will help build a market for many of the resources I'd like to see.
Clearly if there's one feature that is vital to you that Logos 4 doesn't have, and you can't work around, then L3 will be much better for you. That said, in this case I wonder whether a workaround will still give you 90% of what you need for presentations, plus all the other extras of L4.
How about this?
Not perfect, perhaps, but the new features of L4 may well make it worthwhile to put up with.
Click on a note to get it to open.Once your note is open, you could make it into a floating window (right click on it's tab to do this). Re-size it to suit.Then just click back into Logos. Your floating window will go to the background.Next time you click on a note, the floating window will come back to the foreground.
not a bad thought as well. Plus your method would also make hyperlinks available in the notes. I'll have to tuck that one away for when I might need it.
Charles,
Sorry to see your disappointment. It seems to me that your main problem is that you're finding Logos difficult ('confusing… not easy… less than basic'). That being the case, you'll find it much more productive to ask a question: "I'm trying to do xxxx in Logos, but I'm finding it really slow/confusing/etc. because of yyy). That way we can help, and you can get what you need.
David,
I would agree losing the 'po-up' window for our notes was disappionting- I also miss it greatly.
Maybe its time for Logos to reconsider this function- i'll support it.
When I follow these steps, I was able to make the notes entry window as big as I want.
Peter
I upgraded to Logos 4 about a month after it was initially released and installed it on my home and work office desktops. My experience was also one of frustration, confusion and disappointment and I quit using the software completely. But I upgraded both systems this past summer to better motherboards, faster CPUs and more memory. I began to use Logos 4 again and the performance improvement was amazing. With that frustration gone, I took the time to work on the learning curve and I now rarely open Logos 3. I still have a lot to learn (and these forums are an excellent resurce) but I am very pleased with Logos 4 overall.
My whole point is that if your hardware is very limited, that adds to the frustration exponentially. Major upgrades to the hardware is not always a viable solution for everyone, but sometimes it's the only way to lower the frustration level to a point that one can truly begin to learn Logos 4. That said, Logos 4 does have a steep learning curve and I have had to relearn the bulk of what I do with the software so I can truly understand your disappointment.
Click on a note to get it to open. Once your note is open, you could make it into a floating window (right click on it's tab to do this). Re-size it to suit. Then just click back into Logos. Your floating window will go to the background. Next time you click on a note, the floating window will come back to the foreground. When I follow these steps, I was able to make the notes entry window as big as I want.
Click on a note to get it to open. Once your note is open, you could make it into a floating window (right click on it's tab to do this). Re-size it to suit. Then just click back into Logos. Your floating window will go to the background. Next time you click on a note, the floating window will come back to the foreground.
The "disappointments" with L4 just compound to the point of frustration and then bloom into irritation. The "notes entry window" in L4 is a disaster in my book. It is just one huge, continuous pile of random notes. L4 does register my L3 notes, but it doesn't "file" them in the same way L3 does. I have multiple note files in L3, but they are all piled into a single "General Notes" file in L4. The notes entry window is also about as presentation friendly as a pile of mud. The notes entry window(s) in L4 is/are not designed with separate windows as they are in L3, so there is no hope of presenting material in a clean, crisp manner.
I have more issues, but won't go into them unless asked. I just don't see L4 ever becoming my choice over L3. I would rather see L3 given some of the abilities that L4 has...but I certainly won't hold my breath for that. [+o(]
I have more issues, but won't go into them unless asked. I just don't see L4 ever becoming my choice over L3. I would rather see L3 given some of the abilities that L4 has...but I certainly won't hold my breath for that.
I'm afraid L3 will be usable for some time, but what L3 was, L3 will continue to be.
David sorry to hear about your frustrations. I know how hard it is to use something when you are frustrated with it. I was involved in the initial beta program for L4 and my first look shocked me. frankly I was at the point of what have you guys done?!
But being on the beta program and listening to others and taking the time to learn, plus the responsiveness of Logos helped me work through my perception to find it very usable. Not everyone feels that way and there are things Logos continues to improve upon.
As for notes, it would be nice if the files were a little more structured by like items as it was in L3, but the ability to specify I want a certain type of file helps. I would like to see it not require that aspect but it is how it is for now.
I have L3 on my system but rarely ever open it up anymore.
I hope you will continue to update your L4 and try to work with it and ask questions here. There are a great group of resources here that I would go to that have good idea or suggestions. Look for the MVPs and some of those that have been around for awhile.
Hey Charles,
Due to unexpected illness I am not using Logos often. However I find it very useful and wish I could have more time/energy to use it for sermon preparation and academic research. I really think it is a good product. But, of course, I respect your opinion.
Cheers!
Gabe.
I have multiple note files in L3, but they are all piled into a single "General Notes" file in L4.
This was not my experience and as we've had posters asking how to merge the L3 notes into fewer files I doubt this has changed. If this happened to you you should try reimporting your notes or contact customer service.
Until Windows drops support for programs that are of the type that L3 is and L3 needs to be re compiled to run on 128 [or 256] bit windows and LOGOS CO. does not offer new executables. [Best guess is when the second replacement for the computer you bought this morning dies kiss L3 goodbye]
The notes entry window(s) in L4 is/are not designed with separate windows as they are in L3, so there is no hope of presenting material in a clean, crisp manner.
Hi David,
Maybe I don't fully understand your complaint. I cannot speak from experience concerning importing notes from L3 but I guess I am not seeing what you are saying here. I have several different note files that I have created in L4, each with a different title. When I open them they are in seperate windows lined up one the left half of my screen in the same manner as when I created them. If I want to create a new note file I go to the File drop down menu and select Notes under the New heading. For example I have a notes file entitled "Daily Study" , "Greek Workbook Study", "Study on Lamentations", "Discipleship Journal Notes" etc. I have saved several snapshots of layouts pertaining to each individual study with the proper resources and notes file opened and arranged on my screen (Bibles, or other appropriate resources on the right, commentaries, dictionaries and notes on the left). I have found that I rarely have need to access notes for one particular study from another but if I do it is simply a matter of opening the needed note file and it lines up on the left side with other study resources. It is simply a matter of clicking on the tab at the top to select the resource or note file I need to peruse. Granted it takes a little work to create new notes files for different studies but once created they are accessible in different windows and I can organize each one in any order I desire. By updating my layout I can save any changes to the desired resources for a particular study.
I too felt the same way about L3 vs L4 until about a month ago when an upgrade to my office computer trashed L3. Even a complete reinstall (twice) and hours on the phone with level 2 tech support counldn't resolve the issue. So I was forced to default to L4. In so doing I have even stopped using L3 on my home computer.
Kindest regards,
Bob
I too am quite disappointed and continue to use L3 for my studies. I have been trying to use L4 and I appreciate the "Clippings" feature but there are many issues that prevent me from switching to L4 as my primary study tool. Namely, where are my Notes and Sermons? I have tried the "Import Notes" command but no luck. Can anyone help?
Tim,
I didn't have any notes to import from L3 but this might help you...
http://wiki.logos.com/Importing_Notes_from_LDLS3
This also might be good to go over...
http://wiki.logos.com/Importing_from_LDLS3
Thank you for the assistance, but this did not work. Could it be that the import tool expects the LDL3 files to be in the default directory in My Documents? My files are stored elsewhere for various reasons. I had presumed that L4 would read my L3 configuration and retrieve the files appropriately.
As far as I know, L4 doesn't read the config file for L3. You will need to move the file to where L4 thinks they should be.
and the pitiful three inch window in L4 is the dagger in the heart of that aspiration. Not to argue but to observe: this is the first time I was aware that this was anything much of a limitation. I can't say you are in a unique situation, but that might be close to the case. You must be projecting your Logos screen and want to show your notes in a large enough 'window' to more fully encompass them?
I wish I got note windows that big. Even two line notes display in a window big enough for only one line. As much as I love logos, I have to admit I consider the L4 user interface largely a debacle. Largely because of the horrifically poor performance although there are numerous scrolling bugs that have never been addressed. I've been using Logos since L2 and am firmly into 5 digits in buying so I'm no mere disgruntled user. But a while back, when I booted an old computer (333 MHz) that still had L2 on it, using that ancient version was like a breath of fresh air. I know Bob has a feature first optimize later philosophy. But I don't care about getting even one more new feature until the ones we have already are fast enough to be usable.
Many disappointments. Too much info at one time.
It takes time to work though them but seeing 300 different ideas on one verse gets me past what I was taught and forces me to think about who might be correct.
[most of the time I end up where I started but I had to think]
Correct. I copied and imported. I expect better....
Ditto. It's a lumbering memory hog. I'm about ready to uninstall the blasted thing. Most irritating is that you can't pick and choose what you want it to update like previous versions.
I just need to get used to it? I can't get it to work long enough to get used to it. It's always too busy taking over my computer to do other stuff.
It's always too busy taking over my computer to do other stuff.
It sounds to me as though it's still indexing. This takes a long time, but when it's finished it speeds the rest of Logos up.
Ditto. It's a lumbering memory hog. I'm about ready to uninstall the blasted thing.
If you want help in getting things better, there are people here willing to help. Just start a new thread giving your computer specs, and describe the problem in more detail. In my opinion, in most respects L4 is so much better than anything else available, it will be worth it.
In my opinion, in most respects L4 is so much better than anything else available, it will be worth it.
If all you are trying to do is (fancy) searching, L4 probably can't be beat...although I do many searches in L3 rather than switch to L4 because the number of steps to do things in L4 always seems to be about 3-4 additional clicks. I know that I find Englishman's Concordance searches in L3 to be much easier than the alternative in L4. And the absence of an instanteneous Strong's pop-up in L4 such as I have in my NASB in L3 leaves me both flummoxed and stunned.
And of course notes in L4 are pathetic...apparently by design. They are soooooo far from what L3 notes are that I can't ever see switching to L4 as a primary tool. Let me put it this way: if L3 ever stops working for me I would SERIOUSLY start looking at the competition....inspite of my $11K investment in Logos. Let me make that even stronger--I WOULD FIND AN ALTERNATIVE TO L4 THAT CAN HANDLE MY CURRENT PATTERN OF NOTE USAGE. What I wish Logos would do is take a serious look at reviving L3 and adding some additional functionality to it, like I have suggested in this thread.
The new Proclaim software sounds nifty, but it is far too Hollywood for my usage needs. I don't want to put on a show or Broadway musical...I just want to teach the Bible. L3 has effective (though not fully formed) presentation capabilities that I use in all of my teaching. I never bother with PowerPoint or other fluff...I use L3 exclusively (with Windows Picture viewer on occasion). I like that I am working DIRECTLY OUT OF MY BIBLE...and on occasion I engage other orignal resources like the Maccabees, lexicons, etc. If someone asks me a question that isn't part of my slideshow, that's perfectly fine because I DON'T HAVE A SLIDESHOW. All I have is L3...with occasional back-up from L4 for specialized searches or for quick switching from one linked resource to another.
Bob says L3, at a structural level, wasn't up to the task of being "cloud ready". OK, I understand. But compared to L3, L4 is a big step backward in far too many ways to think that it "replaces" L3. It does no such thing...not even close. IMO, one of two things needs to happen: 1) revive L3 and continue to improve it as an adjunct program to L4 (which I think would be a good idea--though I would describe L4 as an adjunct to L3), or 2) drastically redesign L4 to incorporate all or nearly all of the lost functionality of L3--and then some. I and others like MJ have huge requests for what Logos notes ought to be able to do...and it all looks much more like what L3 provides than what L4 only wishes it could do.
Maybe it's time to consider L5 and design a program that can handle the tasks that L3 had nearly mastered and also keeps the advanced whiz-bang search features of L4. Whatever does happen, I will stop plucking this same string over and over again when I see Logos has addressed my need to have enhanced Notes features that ARE INTEGRATED DIRECTLY INTO MY BIBLE...and thus relieve my fear that L3's utility will slowly be taken from me by hardware and other "advancements" that literally make it obsolete...whether I want it to be or not.
Egads no...L5...the Logos nerual network will become self-aware..egads no.
If all you are trying to do is (fancy) searching, L4 probably can't be beat...
For me, the greatest feature of L4 is the verse mapping - I can go from one translation to another without having to figure out the differences in versification. I also like the interlinear view at the bottom of the pane rather than messing with the main text [although you can see the interlinear inline if you wish].
If all you are trying to do is (fancy) searching, L4 probably can't be beat... For me, the greatest feature of L4 is the verse mapping - I can go from one translation to another without having to figure out the differences in versification. I also like the interlinear view at the bottom of the pane rather than messing with the main text [although you can see the interlinear inline if you wish].
Martha, I can see that I need to work on you some more. One of these days you'll wean yourself away from interlinears. [;)]
One of these days you'll wean yourself away from interlinears.
I hope so - teaching myself Greek has been a slow process 'cause Hebrew presents more interesting challenges.[:)]
I hope so - teaching myself Greek has been a slow process 'cause Hebrew presents more interesting challenges.
Greek and Hebrew are easy -- even the little children there speak them. [:D]
I hope so - teaching myself Greek has been a slow process 'cause Hebrew presents more interesting challenges. Greek and Hebrew are easy -- even the little children there speak them.
Greek and Hebrew are easy -- even the little children there speak them.
But not BIBLICAL Greek and Hebrew! A Greek dentist was much amused when his cowardly patient [:$](yours truly...) thanked him for his makrothumia (patience), which he as an Orthodox Believer understood, but which is used only in the Bible and not in modern Greek[;)]
I hope so - teaching myself Greek has been a slow process 'cause Hebrew presents more interesting challenges. Greek and Hebrew are easy -- even the little children there speak them. But not BIBLICAL Greek and Hebrew! A Greek dentist was much amused when his cowardly patient (yours truly...) thanked him for his makrothumia (patience), which he as an Orthodox Believer understood, but which is used only in the Bible and not in modern Greek
But not BIBLICAL Greek and Hebrew! A Greek dentist was much amused when his cowardly patient (yours truly...) thanked him for his makrothumia (patience), which he as an Orthodox Believer understood, but which is used only in the Bible and not in modern Greek
It's a joke, Nicky. A VERY OLD joke, I might add.
If all you are trying to do is (fancy) searching, L4 probably can't be beat
No, that's not what I'm saying at all. Right throughout L4 are features (some large, some small) that make it very significantly better than L3. Dynamic collections is an obvious example (parallel resource associations were unworkable in L3 if you purchased resources regularly or had a large library). The easy way you can resize panels and windows. Floating panels. The new right-click menu. Proper verse-mapping, as Martha says. The much greater use of reverse-interlinears. Printing that actually works. I could go on…
That said, I don't use notes very much. For you, I know that's the deal-breaker, and because you can't compromise on notes then L4 isn't an option for you. But, as someone who used L3 daily, and has used L4 daily since release, I know that there are literally hundreds of other features in L4 that are better than in L3, many of them significantly better. And, I genuinely can't think of a feature I used in L3 that I don't have in L4. (I'm not saying such things don't exist - I know they do - just that I didn't use them.)
