We ask you to keep this deal to yourself.

Denise Barnhart said:

First, I don't appreciate what amounts to a demand (if I DON'T keep it to myself, I guess I'd violate something or other).

Good sales ploy on their part. You just helped them expand the offer and increase sales. [:D]   This reminds me of the Twitter sale. I bought 4 of those titles and I don't "tweet."   If you really don't like these type of emails you can deselect them. You are enough of a forum regular that I doubt any general sales will get by you. But sometimes Logos really means it when they ask you not to spread the details around. Last October I took advantage of an offer that has put me in a position to save a lot of money while building my library. After trumpeting the deal loudly, I discovered I should not have been so zealous. [:#]

Denise Barnhart said:

I'm a little uncomfortable with special deals for just 'me'. I say that in the Christian environment. What ... is my spiritual life extra special?

Funny how everybody who does get special pricing is silent when you bring this up. Academic pricing is usually better than any sale price the general public can get. Is their "spiritual life extra special?"  I think Logos should remain unfettered to offer better deals (or even gifts!) to missionaries, professors, students, users with extremely low income, or even home schooling moms. [:)]

Our local grocer gives truckloads of free food to the local shelter. (I have to pay for mine.) Presumably there are no lost sales because the people who live in homeless shelters have no money to shop.Some people will not buy Logos resources at regular prices but may buy at a  10% reduction if they need the resource "NOW!"

Denise Barnhart said:

The REAL savings is $20 off of a $200 item or about 10%

If you are going to purchase something anyway, it is not a bad thing to save on the transaction. I know a believer (a multi-millionaire) who stood in line to save $20 on a handicap shower seat  When I met Sam Walton (a multi-billionaire) at his first Sam's Club, he was wearing jeans, flannel shirt and driving an old pickup truck. Neither of those men were gullible.  Both knew the REAL savings is what matters. A 10% pre-tax savings is close to a 15% post tax value. If you could increase your income this year by 15% it would be a much better return than anything the investment firms can offer. I fund much of my Logos purchases by saving10% on my grocery bill, utilities, clothing and entertainment expenditures. And I would rather have 10% off Logos than 80% off cable TV. I do without the cable TV and spend the savings 100% savings on more Logos resources.

I get these same emails from Logos. I just find them amusing and indicative of some real "go-getters" in the Sales divivion.  I turn down 95% of the offers. But when I do buy, I save hundreds.

I agree with the general tone of these comments. I too, grimace at the thought of some "special deal" that I get and no one else gets because I'm special in some sense. I don't mind being special but too often this "specialness" is transparent mass advertising. I often wonder how many others received the exact same advertisement. Logos isn't the only company that does this. Many companies use this advertising technique, probably the brain child of some over-exuberant Marketing Professional. It's condescending.

That said, targeted "specials" based on past purchasing trends seem reasonable and I often consider those. For example, I've made several specialized purchases and have received packaged offers of similar resoures. These offers usually come with my name and a recognition of the past purchases. These make sense to me, aka Amazon and others. I usually consider these, don't necassarily purchase but at least they get considered and I get the sense that Logos is trying to anticipate my needs. FWIW

Matthew C Jones said:

Denise Barnhart said:

The REAL savings is $20 off of a $200 item or about 10%

If you are going to purchase something anyway, it is not a bad thing to save on the transaction.

But if you're only purchasing because you think the savings is extraordinary, then you've been deceived, no? 

I dislike having to look up the everyday price and calculate the actual savings every time the sale states "x% off retail".  Whenever I see a sale that mentions the "retail price", my first thought is to assume the discount is negligible.  Many times this may not the be case, but it happens often enough to turn me off to those type of sales, unless I was already waiting for a sale to buy that item previously.

BTW, I didn't get the "deal" mentioned by Denise, so those who did are special! I guess the question is how special. [:D] I personally think you all are special!

This is a major issue with me and the number one reason why I would disagree with many who would say Logos is a Christian BASED company.  In my opinion they are a FOR PROFIT BASED company with Christian 'overtones'...  While I could proof text my point I'll refrain.

George Somsel said:

Doesn't the fact that some "targetted" specials are specials on resources one already has indicate that it really isn't directed to the recipient at all -- otherwise it would not offer a special on something he already has

I agree - almost every special offer email lately has been something I already had (pretty much all but one of them).

These type do NOT make me feel special, they annoy me! Logos is a software resource company that heavily promotes the benefits of the "cloud" and downloads.

If anyone should be able to get it right then they should. These mass "mis-directed" mailings like this only make Logos marketing department look "bush league and stirs up resentment and or frustration.

tom collinge said:

I have signed up to receive discounts

How?

I have never seen the opportunity to be deemed 'special'. I have never received an email, I have spent a not inconsiderable sum over a period of some years .... how do you get on a list?

I agree about the need for honesty and openness in our dealings (and that includes the 'personal deals of the the personal sales reps). It would be much better if there were a mailing list that we could subscribe to, if we wanted to that is.

Thomas Black said:

You mean like this one: https://www.logos.com/user/notifications

Exactly.

The only item that I can see that applies here is the newswire which does not ask you to 'keep this deal to yourself', quite the opposite, it always reminds me of the Logos blog.

Thanks Thomas, that's just the link I need. Now maybe they'll send me an offer I can't refuse [H]

J. Morris said:

This is a major issue with me and the number one reason why I would disagree with many who would say Logos is a Christian BASED company.  In my opinion they are a FOR PROFIT BASED company with Christian 'overtones'...  While I could proof text my point I'll refrain.

Christians cannot make a profit or they're not Christians?

I pretty sure that this is a false dichotomy.

Shawn Drewett said:

Your'e absolutely right Robert. I've always said that Logos is a for profit, Christian business. That's how they should be viewed.

+1 [:D]

Shawn Drewett said:

Your'e absolutely right Robert. I've always said that Logos is a for profit, Christian business. That's how they should be viewed.

I agree and see nothing wrong with it. We have a local Christian bookstore and I frequent them regularly. A couple of times a year I receive a "preferred customer" postcard inviting me to an early opening for holders of this card only and receive on average an extra 25% off my purchases. I don't always go but must admit that if there is a big ticket item that I have been wanting, it might lure me in. On a regular day, I cannot go in and tell them that I am a regular customer of theirs and demand a discounted price. Well, I guess I could but it would not necessarily work, I've never tried. It is their business model and does not mean that the employees are or are not Christians.

From what I can see, Logos has transformed into the same model. The more you buy the more offers you get. It appears that the days of calling or emailing your regular sales rep to get a discount are over with. I emailed a sales person in a very courteous manner for confirmation but he has not responded so I am assuming that silence is confirmation.

There is nothing wrong with making a profit, and there is nothing wrong with a preferred customer promotion that rewards one's best customers.

But the problem that I have with current Logos sales policy is this.  Promotions come listing a "suggested retail price" and a special deal at a greatly reduced price.  However, what they don't say is that the "retail price" is not the regular price that Logos charges.  So the real savings is far less.  What they lead you to believe is a $100 savings, really is only a $20 savings.  No they do not actually say that (usually), but that is definitely what you are intended to think. 

This was the case in a Bible commentary set promotion this very week. 

How can there be a "suggested retail price" higher than Logos' price if Logos is the only one selling the product?  That in itself is deceptive advertising.

There is nothing wrong with a $20 savings, unless you are deceiving your customers by implying it is a $100 savings.  I expect that from secular companies, but I didn't expect it from Logos.  I know Logos is out to make a profit.  That is fine.  But I thought there was an element of ministry and service of God in what Logos was doing.  This makes it appear that money is all that matters.

You can try to justify this if you want.  But I know pagan retailers who would not practice this much deceit in their business.  This practice breaks trust, and trust is important in selling Bible software.  I know I trust them less as a result. 

I will have to be more careful in reading Logos advertising.  Most of us are fiercely loyal to Logos, and deserve better than this. 

Denise Barnhart said:

I find this whole conversation interesting. A couple of the issues, most comments seem to agree on. But on the ones where there's disagreement, 'it's a business' seems to be the attribute that alters agree/disagree. So presumably the conditional phrase 'If it's a business .... ' connotes a separate set of behavioral expectations that appear to be independent of the logo of this business (else why the conditional attribute/phrase).

It does and does not alter things.  It is Christian in that it must meet certain standards applicable to being considered Christian.  It ALSO is, however, a business which means that it must perform in a certain fashion -- namely, it must seek to make a profit if it is to remain a viable business.  The question becomes whether the two standards are compatible.  I think they are, and that Logos generally performs quite admirably in balancing the two.  The only thing I would question is whether it is necessary to adopt certain secular practices in order to remain financially viable.

Michael Childs said:

But the problem that I have with current Logos sales policy is this.  Promotions come listing a "suggested retail price" and a special deal at a greatly reduced price. 

I understand your point. Some people may feel misled with these types of advertisements.  I personally look at the bottom line. I have more time to spend window shopping and I am keenly familiar with the regular sales prices of Logos resources and the "competitors."  Daily I receive email offers for "specials" on Bible software. I get them from all the different Bible software companies. And every one of them uses this same percentage off  "suggested retail price"  advertising ploy.  I am not attempting to justify it but I would not call it immoral or unethical when it is in fact the norm for ALL Bible software sellers.

I don't even have a problem with a Bible College selling special coffee cups or paver stones for $100 in a fund raiser for a new chapel building.  I do draw the line at sales tables in the church foyer and kids pedaling candy bars on the church steps. [N]

Graham Owen said:

and I'm pretty sure that if Bob ran the company at too low a margin leading to Logos going bankrupt there would be just as many people questioning the Christian ethic of the company as there are now when Logos seems to be doing well.

Yep...the one thing we seem to do well is to second guess Logos' motives and intentions [:$]

Light bulbs, anyone? [I]

Matthew C Jones said:

I would not call it immoral or unethical when it is in fact the norm for ALL Bible software sellers.

Just because everyone is doing something does not make it right. Didn't your mother ever give you the "if your friends all jumped off a bridge" lecture?

The percent off adds Logos uses are overstated because they are usually based on a price that Logos never ever sells at.  As a business that is
run by Christians I find it disappointing that they do this.

Regards,

Clinton

The Logos SRP is the only fixed point they can make comparison to. Yeah, it is an arbitrary number created by the only source for the product. But it is static. It would be very hard to write an email sale offer comparing to all the other prices a resource has been offered at. Try this one out for effectiveness:

"Just for YOU, because you are special! 

1. Buy this product for 1000% higher than the Community Pricing rate!
2. Buy this product for 200% of it's Pre-Pub rate!
3. Buy this product for 20% off it's November 2009 actual selling rate.
4. Buy this product for 10% off it's March 2011 actual selling rate.
5. Buy this product for 130% of it's October 2011 projected selling rate.  
6. Buy this product for 40% off the Suggested Retail Price"

The only unchangeable price is the SRP.  It is a rule, an anchor, a standard.    All the other options change.

Clinton Thomas said:

Just because everyone is doing something does not make it right. Didn't your mother ever give you the "if your friends all jumped off a bridge" lecture?

Actually it was my friend's mothers who gave them that lecture. "When Matthew Jones jumps off a bridge, are you gonna follow?" [*-)]
I have really jumped off at least one bridge in my life but I will say no more lest my wife and father learn of it. They both have Logos accounts. [:#]

Matthew C Jones said:

The Logos SRP is the only fixed point they can make comparison to.

The regular listed sale price is always available to be compared with.  Not sure why you need a "fixed" point.  Most stores I frequent used the listed price as the base price for the sale ("20% off lowest marked price!"), even though that listed price may change over time.  The sale price listed on the resource page is the one people are generally aware of, and it generally doesn't change any more than the "retail" price does.  Most Logos sales use a discount code, and the price on the product page doesn't change and can be seen for comparison.  I only remember one time that they changed the listed sale price on the resource pages (last year's the Christmas sale).

Looks like some of us need a new beta version to help us pass the time and give us a good reason to post!!!