Logos 4 for PC via Parallels on a Mac - better speed?

It's just the fact for now - Logos 4 on the Mac is an incredible slow program to use. Very helpful program, but slow slow slow.

Even on one of the fastest MacBook Pro laptops out there:

http://www.kevinpurcell.org/archives/1170

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Has anyone tried to use Logos for PC via Parallels on the Mac? If so, how does the speed compare?

I'd love to hear from you..

thanks,

Jacques

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Mr. Simple

I have parallels and a macbook pro with 8 gig of RAM. I purchased the Mac version and it is slow.

I even ran it on Brand new Mac PRO Server with 16 gig of RAM and 4 Core system and an 1 Gig Video Card. Still Slow

I don't think logos has a "universal" install disk or any way a user can use both a windows or mac version so that they can test side by side.Could be wrong on that though

I just cannot see repurchasing the product just to test the windows side of things.

Fernando A Gonzalez

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/230550#Comment_230550

I don't think logos has a "universal" install disk or any way a user can use both a windows or mac version so that they can test side by side.Could be wrong on that though

I just cannot see repurchasing the product just to test the windows side of things.

Actually you don't have to repurchase the software. Your license is valid for either platform and you can run them both without having to purchase anything again.

Blessings, Fernando

Mr. Simple

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/230552#Comment_230552

Good to know - I will fire up parallels and do a comparative evaluation on windows vs. mac to try to respond to Jacques.

Jacques

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/230550#Comment_230550

All of your licensing is on the Logos servers. It's fairly simple to install!

Once in Parallels, within your PC side - go here:

http://www.logos.com/windows/installlogos4

Download and install using the guide Option #1. Once you install, it'll ask for your account and password - then Logos will automatically sync all of your resources and notes. After it's done doing this, as you probably know, it'll take quite some time to index. Once the index is finished, you can then compare the speeds of the two.

thanks, please let me know how it goes

Jacques

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/230555#Comment_230555

Wow you guys are fast!

I was still writing back while you two posted back and forth...

= )

Jacques

Aaron Knotts

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/230550#Comment_230550

EDIT: woah....too slow on the reply button, so please ignore [:)]

I just cannot see repurchasing the product just to test the windows side of things.

As far as I can tell, you wouldn't need to purchase it twice. I think Logos provide the engine for free (as with the iOS app) and charge for the licensing of resources (please correct me if wrong here).

I found a link to download the L4 PC engine...

http://www.logos.com/support/faq
The free download of the Windows version of the core Logos 4 engine is available fromhttp://downloads.logos.com/LBS4/Installer/Logos4Setup.exe.

Aaron Knotts

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/230553#Comment_230553

Good to know - I will fire up parallels and do a comparative evaluation on windows vs. mac to try to respond to Jacques.

I must admit, I have been tempted to try the same under VMWare Fusion (or Bootcamp) on my MBP, but have assumed it would be slower, so never bothered.

Jacques

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/230558#Comment_230558

I don't see the complaint about speed as much in the PC realm. It's obvious that Logos was not designed for the Mac. It's look, behavior and speed are nothing like any Mac app I've ever witnessed. It's a rough port in the making with a minimum of Mac-like optimization.

There's nothing like it though, that Exegetical Guide has got me. I don't see that Accordance has anything like this.. Logos' sheer amount of resources are amazing.

Perhaps one day, Logos will be coded correctly - until then I may just purchase Parallels 6 to run Logos.

I can't wait to see the comparison results!

Jacques

tom

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/230565#Comment_230565

I don't see the complaint about speed as much in the PC realm

I posted this in another thread, but since it was mentioned here; I will repost what I said in the other thread.

While I do not have a mac, I can say that L4 runs painfully slow on my pc and my laptop. While both of them are not top of the line, both of them easily (double as a matter of fact) the min. requirements stated by Logos to run L4.

MJD

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/230569#Comment_230569

This should be interesting, I am looking forward to see how the same machine loaded with both OS's operate Logos 4 for speed.

[Y]

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/230572#Comment_230572

Wiki Logos 4 Mac has Need Logos 4 PC feature ? section has 3 virtual machine options for running Logos 4 PC on a Mac. Also mentions Boot Camp partitioning so can natively boot Windows on Apple hardware (faster than virtualization). Wiki includes links to forum threads with virtual machine performance suggestions (e.g. disable floppy drives).

Likewise looking forward to Logos 4.2a performance comparison.

Apologies, no longer have 2.8 GHz Quad Core i7 iMac (with 16 GB Ram) to compare Logos 4.2a performance between Mac OS X and Windows virtual machines.

Would be interesting to compare elapsed time for several items:

1) Rebuild indexes for same set of resources one at a time

2) Open Logos 4.2a to Home Page

3) Home Page - John 1:1-18 - GO - scroll to John 3 (in preferred bible)

4) Customize Exegetical Guide to remove Word by Word section

5) Repeat Home Page - John 1:1-18 - GO - scroll to John 3 (in preferred bible)

6) Same search on both platforms: e.g. greek:λόγος in All Bible Text in New Testament in All Bibles

Mac Troubleshooting page has Slow Performance section. Do remember enabling Snow Leopard 64 bit kernel (with 16 GB Ram) noticeably improved Mac OS X performance for all applications. While using 64 bit Mac OS X kernel, also remember 64 bit Windows in virtual machine was faster than 32 bit WIndows (e.g. rebuild index command completed 20 % sooner).

Wiki page Diagnostic Logging may be helpful - Logos 4 Mac always has diagnostic logging enabled. By default, Logos 4 PC does not.

Keep Smiling [:)]

Mr. Simple

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/230599#Comment_230599

Thanks for the sample script ideas:

1. I do run 64 bit Kernel with 16 gig RAM, 8 Cores, High End Graphics Card.

2. Right now I only have Windows XP running on the parallels side, which is a limitation

To configure Parallels to recognized this much memory and that many CPU's is problematic, therefore that environment really won't have access to total power of the hardware. I could purchase Windows 7 and relieve some of the restrictions. I'll have to think hard about that one, as I am skeptical that it will result in a performance gain worthy of the expense.

Mr. Simple

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/230600#Comment_230600

Couple of architecture questions:

1. Given that I have eight cores, how multithreaded is your engine, can it leverage it effectively?

2. An example, I run a query using search - The results are indexed fast ! however building and then searching through that list takes more time that I would expect

3. Window managment, resizing, etc seems sluggish, like I am driving through mud. Not sure if you can multi thread that function but I cetainly have the hardware support behind it.

I understand that this application is maintaining a huge cross linked environment so it does push the envelope compared to your average productivity application installed on a user desktop.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/230600#Comment_230600

Thanks for the sample script ideas:

1. I do run 64 bit Kernel with 16 gig RAM, 8 Cores, High End Graphics Card.

2. Right now I only have Windows XP running on the parallels side, which is a limitation

To configure Parallels to recognized this much memory and that many CPU's is problematic, therefore that environment really won't have access to total power of the hardware. I could purchase Windows 7 and relieve some of the restrictions. I'll have to think hard about that one, as I am skeptical that it will result in a performance gain worthy of the expense.

Seem to remember 64 bit Windows 7 being bit faster than 64 bit Windows XP for rebuilding Logos 4 indexes.

For IT professionals, Microsoft offers Tech Net subscriptions.

Couple of architecture questions:

1. Given that I have eight cores, how multithreaded is your engine, can it leverage it effectively?

2. An example, I run a query using search - The results are indexed fast ! however building and then searching through that list takes more time that I would expect

3. Window managment, resizing, etc seems sluggish, like I am driving through mud. Not sure if you can multi thread that function but I cetainly have the hardware support behind it.

I understand that this application is maintaining a huge cross linked environment so it does push the envelope compared to your average productivity application installed on a user desktop.

Logos 4.2a is a 32 bit multi-threaded application that can effectively use up to 4 cores. For 32 bit Windows, 4 GB RAM is maximum (unless an extended memory driver is installed). In 64 bit WIndows, RAM above 4 GB can be used by Windows for file caching.

Logos 4.2a has a common C# code base on PC and Mac written for .Net (uses Mono on Mac OS X). For Windows, Logos 4.2a uses Windows Presentation Foundation (WPF). On Mac, Logos 4.2a uses Cocoa interface for Mac (native).

Forum notes search speed display improvement between 4.0b and 4.2a Beta => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/27972/207478.aspx#207478 - searched for 'David' in Old Testament.

Keep Smiling [:)]

David Mitchell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/230550#Comment_230550

I don't think Logos has a "universal" install disk or any way a user can use both a windows or mac version so that they can test side by side.Could be wrong on that though

In fact, all base package discs have both the Windows and Mac version.

Mr. Simple

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/230603#Comment_230603

Again thanks for the detailed technical response. I'm sure this will get all sorted out. On net I really am really impressed with Logos in terms of the concept. It's amazing, and there is much potential to be mined I am sure in future product refinement.

I've invested the time to review all the help available by trainers and others who generously contributed video seminars on specific topics. Well worth it because once the big picture starts to lock into view, my mind can work freely to explore without a pile of reference books piled everywhere. Not that I do not still have hardcover but it is a fantastic addition.

I've got a lot to learn about this tool, and it's exciting to be in a forum of knowledgeable, helpful people.

Jacques

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/230747#Comment_230747

I'm still seeing this thread on how slow the Mac version is here:

http://community.logos.com/forums/t/30967.aspx?PageIndex=3

I think we all know this.. but I don't see this nearly as much on the PC side. Seeing this is not some intense 3D game, I figure the PC version of Logos 4 is faster!

Has anyone yet had the chance to try Logos 4 for Windows via Parallels? Macupdate.com has a bundle deal that includes Parallels 6 for cheap (along with a lot of other useful software). I'd like to grab it before the offer is pulled...

Anyone with thoughts on this yet?

thanks

Mr. Simple

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/231579#Comment_231579

Jacques,

I think the most accurate measurement for you needs/configuration is just to try it on your computer.

Here is a link to a 14 day trial of the product from the software vendor.

http://www.parallels.com/download/desktop/

tom

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/231579#Comment_231579

I figure the PC version of Logos 4 is faster!

It might be faster, but it is not fast.

Jacques

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/231583#Comment_231583

I think the most accurate measurement for you needs/configuration is just to try it on your computer.

That would be true if I had all of the software needed for the comparison. I probably would not have asked if I had the software, as a matter of fact I would of posted results for those that are interested..!

I'm still waiting on Logos Scholar, I hope to have it by the end of March. I do have Windows Vista retail box, but not Parallels 6. Parallels 6 is only on sale for a number of days, I'd have to buy it before I actually have Logos Scholar in hand. There are folks here that have all of these tools and have offered to do a bit of a comparison.

So there you have it, I await someone's test!

thanks

Mr. Simple

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/231598#Comment_231598

What I was trying to get at is you can download parallels for a free 14 day trial on your computer -

That way you will have what you need on that front. I may be missing something regarding your needs

See the link on my previous post. It will take you right there

http://www.parallels.com/download/desktop/

Ben

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/231605#Comment_231605

Right now you can get Parallels 6 PLUS 1Password and some other very useful software, and Civ IV for $50.

https://www.mupromo.com/

These guys do a package like that every year, and it's always undpredictable what will be included.

Otto S. Carroll

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/231595#Comment_231595

I started using Logos 4 on Fusioin / Win XP when it was released about 1-1/2 years ago. It was faster than Logos 3. When I upgraded to Win 7, performance was better and continued to improve with later release. My performance on Fusion was not a snappy as what I was seeing in the training videos (Barnes, et al) but it was at a level I could live with on a virtual machine.

I installed L4 Mac when it went gold. Although it was just as fast as my Windows L4, I continued using L4 windows because it had more features. Since the latest release, L4 Mac is definitely more snappier than L4 windows on Fusion. I can't say that it is just as fast as what I'm seeing in the native Windows training videos, but it is definitely close. I don't use L4 Windows anymore - I will delete it from my system soon.

Jacques

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/231629#Comment_231629

Thanks Otto!

This is helpful. It sounds like it's likely they speed difference is not huge - it's just a slow program. I hope to see others observations too..

thanks again, have a good weekend

Otto S. Carroll

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/231645#Comment_231645

I hope to see others observations too..

Jacques,

Below is a link to the Camp Logos Live Pre-pub page, in particularly the 2nd video ("Camp Logos Live Sample Sessions"). L4 Windows is being used to demostrate right-click searching from the ESV.

As I followed with my L4 Mac, I noticed the following:

It took slightly longer (maybe up to a full second) for the right-click menus to fully load on my L4M than it did with the L4W in the video.

Search results on my L4M were displayed just as fast, and sometimes slightly faster, than L4W in the video

I'm using the latest Mac release - I don't know what release was being used in the video.

Now relative to everyone else, I don't know if this is good, bad, or insufficient to draw any conclusions, but it may be a good place to start for comparative observations.

http://www.logos.com/product/9356/camp-logos-live

Jacques

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/232094#Comment_232094

Otto -

It sounds like you were comparing the video of someone else's system being used, against your installation. The comparison I hope someone will post, is between Parallels 6 on a Mac running Logos 4 for PC and Logos 4 Mac - on the same machine.

I'm noticing on the forums here and there, it seems like the answer is that the PC version in a setup like this is a bit faster, has more features, and doesn't have problems with notes syncing. I'm only gathering this from how I've noticed people are talking here and there.

I still watch for more posts, but so far it seems the PC version is the way to go if you have the resources to spare. (Running Parallels w/ Windows and Logos takes up a lot of memory I'm sure, as you're launching an entire operating system to run alongside the Mac...)

Jacques

Richard Labelle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/230565#Comment_230565

Jacques (or anyone else), do you have to purchase also windows 7 to have parallel work on your Mac? I never used parallel before!

Thanks for your help.

Otto S. Carroll

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/232157#Comment_232157

do you have to purchase also windows 7 to have parallel work on your Mac?

You will need to install a Windows operating system onto Parallels to run L4 Windows. Doesn't have to be Windows 7, but I would recommend it.

Martin Folley

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/232157#Comment_232157

Jacques (or anyone else), do you have to purchase also windows 7 to have parallel work on your Mac?

Yes. You can often pick up W7 quite cheaply if you qualify for education prices (you could also get M$ office etc. for a significant discount as well). It depends where you are geographically as to where you can get it. The main MS site should point you in the correct direction. Here in the UK I usually use Pugh.

Kevin A. Purcell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/232164#Comment_232164

If you think you will use both Windows and Office then a subscription to Technet basic is only $200 and you can download it and install it on multiple computers and have access to full versions of Office for both Win/Mac.

Richard Labelle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/232208#Comment_232208

Thanks guys for your prompt replies. Very appreciated. I am a Mac person. I used windows on a PC before and actually have no intention of returning to it, even with Parallel. So I guess I'll have to be patient with Logos like the rest of you. I do believe that Logos will become an AWESOME software ... in due time.

God bless you!

Kevin A. Purcell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/232230#Comment_232230

Just an FYI, I am waiting (and waiting) for Logos 4 Win to finish indexing on my new MBPro. Once it does, I will capture some video of the two side by side and show you how it compares in Mac OS X and via Parallels.

Jacques

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/232591#Comment_232591

Nice! Looking forward to seeing how it goes, thanks for you efforts.

BTW - has anyone tried to use these forums with the iPad? They don't let me type a response directly. As a work around I'm using Notes to quickly compose then copy/paste the response.

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/232591#Comment_232591

Just an FYI, I am waiting (and waiting) for Logos 4 Win to finish indexing on my new MBPro. Once it does, I will capture some video of the two side by side and show you how it compares in Mac OS X and via Parallels.

See my note in your other thread concerning running Parallels and L4 Mac at the same time on the same machine, or are you running this on two different machines. How many Macs do you own now? For a PC, you seem to have a lot of Macs [8-|]

Kevin A. Purcell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/232673#Comment_232673

How many Macs do you own now? For a PC, you seem to have a lot of Macs

I have the MacBook Air that I was given. And I used my expense account to replace my very aging Lenovo desktop with an iMac so I can have the same environment. When it turned out to be a lemon (returned two for bad logic board) I instead got the new MacBook Pro which I am mostly using as a dekstop replacement.

As I said in the other post referenced in yours, I am an iOS guy using whatever system is most efficient to use my iPad. If it wasn't such a pain to switch, I load Windows under Bootcamp and use that most of the time and only go into OS X when I wanted to sync with my iPad/iPhone and use iMovie to create video. It's just easier to run in OS X and then run Parallels for Bible software that doesn't run natively.

If Logos ever fixes this thing, I could stop doing that unless I'm reviewing it.

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/232711#Comment_232711

If Logos ever fixes this thing

I believe this is coming. Having been with Logos for Mac from the very beginning, I can see the progress. Those who have come later, tend to see the problems. Hey, I have become a glass is 3/4 full kind of guy (well, as far as L4 Mac goes, anyway [8-|]).

Jacques

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/232721#Comment_232721

Kevin posted some videos, the verdict is up!

..and thanks for the efforts..

http://community.logos.com/forums/t/31357.aspx