Time for Wednesday Night Bible Study...
Our baby church has just begun midweek services.
I am aware that the majority of L4 users are pastors, preachers, teachers and lay leaders: which means most of the time you are at the front, and if you have your computer and L4 with you, you are using it to teach.
But what if not? I am a lay person, and have the opportunity to have my L4 with me during Wednesday Night Bible Study. I'd like to discuss ideas for having L4 setup for best use during bible study--to make it more of an enhancement than a distraction.
Being aware of limitations in the "notes" feature in L4, last night I just began a new One Note notebook and simply took notes. I had L4 open, the passage for study open in my preferred Bible, and my customized passage guide also open to the reference. I ended up using the interlinear, and would have used the text comparison tool except that I'd forgotten how and used the parallel resource set instead, which, in the pace of the study, was less than ideal for that application (wanted to check one word to see how different versions translated it).
I'm interested in any thoughts about how people here on this forum would use their L4 in this scenario. What keystrokes would you use? What layout? Would you use note-taking software or the notes feature in L4? Why or why not? Any other software you might use side-by-side with L4 or One Note to make this easier/better? How might you organize your workspace? What might need to be considered?
I'll be looking forward to replies!
Comments
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I serve in a situation where it would (presently) be far too distracting for everyone involved for me to show up with a computer. So I bring a printout of my studies to services.
I do have one or two who are now using their phones (Android, iphone) to reference the Bible so this may be changing soon, but not yet.
In addition to what you've done I would only add a predevloped layout with the most likely tools already loaded and ready at the pericope I was working at.
I will however be watching this thread to see what others suggest.
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
I have been using my cellphone for bible access for several years now. At first I think it caused some consternation among the congregation, and in fact I felt uncomfortable at the beginning having my phone out during service. But now it is quite an accepted practice, and I even have relatives in other churches who have had the experience of having the pastor and congregants tweet during the message or the pastor has outlines or thought questions posted somewhere accessible to cellphones with web access.
It will be interesting to see what other ideas are posted here!
shallbe
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Esther, its been my experience that in the middle of a study is not the time to do any research. It'll either 1) distract you from who's talking or 2) slow the group down while they wait for you.
Here's what I would experiment with, a layout designed for quick look-up of info but not research.
Maximized, a Floating window with Biblical People, Places, Things all open
Above, covering it up
Snapped to the right - OneNote for taking notes
Snapped to the left - Main window with Bibiles in both English and Greek/Hebrew with Sympathetic highlighting on; A floating window with lexicons, BWS; a floating window with a 1 volume Bible Dictionary, Text Comparison tool, and any other lookup I think I might need.
That means that I would be mostly cycling through my layered Logos resources on the left side and would pull the Biblical People/Place/Things to the front as needed.
In pictures
This strategy is affect by my 14" screen, if I had a bigger laptop I might do it differently.
Prov. 15:23
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My screen is small, too, so your layout is quite applicable.
I agree that deep research is not possible during a bible study, and I wouldn't want anyone to have to "wait" on me to do anything! It's mainly for my own benefit that I want to do this--it is a specific application of L4 that is unusual, and I thought therefore a good subject for a thread!
I should mention that I have only the Bible Study Library LE--but I hope no one limits their suggestions just to that, because this idea is applicable no matter what library you have.
Esther
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Wow...was it something I said? This thread was hopping for a bit, and as soon as I said I only had the Bible Study library it died...
Esther
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Esther Jones said:
Wow...was it something I said? This thread was hopping for a bit, and as soon as I said I only had the Bible Study library it died...
Nope - I was watching then went for a minor car repair, visit my Mother, shop for toiletries for a St. Vincent de Paul program, pick up flowers ... believe it or not, some of us occasionally know there is a world surrounding the computer screen.
Seriously, as I develop Bible studies, I have ideas on using Logos within a presentation but I'm sorry to say that other than note taking I don't have concrete suggestions for the other side of the podium, table or couch.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Nah, nothing you said Esther.
Well obviously, what I've been doing will not be for everybody, but if you have a large screen tv available to use you can somewhat sanctify it now. I teach a weekly study at my home and as an experiment started using my laptop connected to my wall mounted large screen tv (52" or maybe 55") via an HDMI cable. I created a Teaching Layout set up similar to the last two layouts that Kevin shows above. On mine I use two panels. On the left side I have two copies of the Bible, one to read from (with highlights in place if desired) that I scroll through, and another copy that is used for hyperlinking cross references. I always keep the Scriptures we are using in view.
On the right side I usually keep other things I might link to such as notes I've embedded into the Bible passage, e.g. General Notes-Isaiah. But I usually try to keep those notes small enough that I can just hover over them in the passage and the pop up can be read. If needed I can just click on it and bring up a longer note or a hyperlink in the note file which I keep on the right side.
Also, on the right side I keep whatever else I may be using for that particular study such as the People, Places, or Things tools, Text Comparison etc. I modify it for each lesson so that I don't have unused items loaded. I have most recently been teaching through Isaiah, and Maps have proved very useful visual aids. Using the mouse as a pointer is nice. Since I have internet at the house, I have also used the Google earth feature with good effect in matching the ancient names to modern geography. If I know I'll be using a chart, map, whatever, I may make it a floating panel and minimize and maximize as needed. It's very quick.
I always make lesson outline/notes to hand out and to teach from. So, I usually bring up the same outline in my word processor (I use Note Bene) and put it in a floating window that I minimize until needed. I reference the outline/notes for a particular passage, minimize them, work through the passage, bring them up again when ready, etc. I tried transfering my outline notes to the note feature in Logos and using that instead. It's a bit of a stretch for it's intended purpose and I found myself losing my place moving to different headings and experienced a couple other problems. I may try it again. If I can get it to work I will not need to open a word processor.
By working from the computer I was able to pull up a brief, but relevant video for one of the lessons. I did this once, but if appropriate, I know I can do it again.
I asked for feedback from the group and was ready to trash the idea if anyone didn't like it, but everyone did so I'll continue to use this method. I had to make an adjustment of the font size on the fly the first time to make it readable across the living room. Very easy. Seating is obviously a consideration for viewing.
By using Logos in this way to teach, I simply make a few adaptations to move from a study tool to a teaching tool so I'm pretty much practiced up on what will be presented. I'm still experimenting, but due to the feedback, I'm convinced it's workable.
Anyway, this is a rough idea of what I have been doing. It works for my situation. Clear as mud?
If I think of anything else I'll pipe in again.
Larry
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I've used Logos when attending Bible study classes. I'll open up at least two copies of my preferred Bible side-by-side, so I can compare two different passages, or for when the teacher says "now keep your finger on this page while we go to..." I either use interlinear mode or also open up the Greek or Hebrew and have them linked to the English versions. I also have Bible search opened for e.g. when people want to know where else a word is used.
I agree with Kevin that it's too distracting to try to do any research. If I open up a commentary, I'll end up reading the commentary instead of listening to the teacher.
I still do note-taking the old fashioned way - on paper.
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Pam Larson said:
I've used Logos when attending Bible study classes. I'll open up at least two copies of my preferred Bible side-by-side, so I can compare two different passages, or for when the teacher says "now keep your finger on this page while we go to..." I either use interlinear mode or also open up the Greek or Hebrew and have them linked to the English versions.
Sounds similar to my use of Logos on an iPad with split screen for showing Bible versions side by side (easy to change versions and navigate to verses).
Pam Larson said:I still do note-taking the old fashioned way - on paper.
Also use pencil and paper for scribbling notes in a group setting.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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I have tried taking a notebook or netbook to peer Bible studies as a participant, and even among fellow pastors it seems distracting. At least in my rural area, technology is still not a mainstream Bible study tool. Sometimes I take it anyway: someone has to be the pioneer!
Esther Jones said:I have been using my cellphone for bible access for several years now....and I even have relatives in other churches who have had the experience of having the pastor and congregants tweet during the message or the pastor has outlines or thought questions posted somewhere accessible to cellphones with web access.
It's a bit off-topic, but as a pastor I've often been tempted to "crib" some of our student's cell phone numbers from our youth minister and send them a text in the middle of a sermon: "Upcoming sermon point aimed at students," or "BTW, ck. Jn 10:27."
Pastor, rural Baptist church
Notebook: Dell Precision 4400; Core 2 Duo, 2.5gh; 8Gb RAM; NVIDIA FX 770M w/ 512Mb; Win7 Pro 64-bit; Novabench 510; WEI 5.9
Netbook: MSI Wind 12: Novabench 198; WEI 3.1
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Esther Jones said:
I'm interested in any thoughts about how people here on this forum would use their L4 in this scenario. What keystrokes would you use? What layout? Would you use note-taking software or the notes feature in L4? Why or why not? Any other software you might use side-by-side with L4 or One Note to make this easier/better? How might you organize your workspace? What might need to be considered?
Perhaps at 38 I'm too old for this, but I favor doing your study at home and participating in any discussion at church without a computer or iphone or whatever. There's something about bringing a piece of technical equipment into the church and sticking your nose in it that simply doesn't appeal to me.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George Somsel said:Esther Jones said:
I'm interested in any thoughts about how people here on this forum would use their L4 in this scenario. What keystrokes would you use? What layout? Would you use note-taking software or the notes feature in L4? Why or why not? Any other software you might use side-by-side with L4 or One Note to make this easier/better? How might you organize your workspace? What might need to be considered?
Perhaps at 38 I'm too old for this, but I favor doing your study at home and participating in any discussion at church without a computer or iphone or whatever. There's something about bringing a piece of technical equipment into the church and sticking your nose in it that simply doesn't appeal to me.
George:
If you are too old for it, then I should be too, being more in the 50-ish range, lol!
I am sometimes torn, too, and if it turns out that anyone is distracted by the use of the computer during bible study, I will gladly stop using it. In my situation we are not in a church building--not that that matters so much, actually--but in a home, where things are a little more casual.
On the other hand, I cannot count the number of times I have gone home from Sunday morning worship planning to log my reactions to the sermon and/or look up something on which I had a question, and simply forgot--losing the opportunity to hide God's Word in my heart and be a Berean more effectively. God's Word deserves better.
I have also often had it happen during a sermon that a scripture studied earlier that week in private devotions makes a vital connection with the sermon--but I can't remember the reference or the actual connection.
I don't know if you are a pastor, George (tried to remember while typing, because I know I've read many of your posts here), but I can't imagine a *[real] preacher/teacher who wouldn't want a listener to engage with the material and widen and deepen their understanding of it by keeping notes that will enable them to dig deeper later. I wonder if the first person who brought paper and pencil (or was that clay and stylus?) into church to take notes was also deemed a "distraction", or perhaps worse--irreverent?
I think that's one of the reasons that this thread is important: discussing ways that using computers + Logos on the ground during a bible study is a different application of the technology, and we should all desire to use it appropriately and in such a way that it enhances our engagement with and understanding of the Word of God, while at the same time reining its use so that it doesn't become a substitute for interaction and body life.
Another thought is: technology is here to stay--and it will keep growing! Why should Christians always be behind in accepting/claiming its use for Kingdom purposes? My understanding is that God gave it to us--if my understanding is correct, then I also understand that I have a responsibility to claim it for the Kingdom and use it aright.
Yes...it may give attendees pause at first. I hope to remain sensitive to that. On the other hand, many churches are already using these methods and perhaps allowing laptops and netbooks into church services (though I personally haven't attended one where that was normal). So it is a technology whose time in the church has come, imho. I'd gladly participate in a thread that provided a forum for discussing the scripturality of same.
So far the ideas are great! I've especially appreciated the simplicity that has been suggested...
Another thing I realized that I'd want to have up is the highlighter tab. I have a specific (but simple) set of my own customized highlighting styles that I use when reading scripture, and I like to be able to mark things right then, when I come across them. That would be no different than having a highlighter set with me in church along with my bible...
Esther
*while realizing that some who claim the title of preachers/teachers are nothing of the sort and would not appreciate deeper study.
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Esther Jones said:
Perhaps at 38 I'm too old for this, but I favor doing your study at home and participating in any discussion at church without a computer or iphone or whatever. There's something about bringing a piece of technical equipment into the church and sticking your nose in it that simply doesn't appeal to me.
If you haven't guessed already, it's something of a standing joke that I'll be 39 on my next birthday. [H]
Esther Jones said:I wonder if the first person who brought paper and pencil (or was that clay and stylus?) into church to take notes was also deemed a "distraction", or perhaps worse--irreverent?
A clay tablet and cuneus are acceptable. [:D]
Esther Jones said:In my situation we are not in a church building--not that that matters so much, actually--but in a home, where things are a little more casual.
I think that does make a difference. I remember when I was in grad school we had a Wednesday morning 3 (or more) hour session. I rarely even took notes during the session but waited until I got home to write things down. My "notes" were mostly a matter of indicating which path the discussion took.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George Somsel said:Esther Jones said:
Perhaps at 38 I'm too old for this, but I favor doing your study at home and participating in any discussion at church without a computer or iphone or whatever. There's something about bringing a piece of technical equipment into the church and sticking your nose in it that simply doesn't appeal to me.
If you haven't guessed already, it's something of a standing joke that I'll be 39 on my next birthday.
Esther Jones said:I wonder if the first person who brought paper and pencil (or was that clay and stylus?) into church to take notes was also deemed a "distraction", or perhaps worse--irreverent?
A clay tablet and cuneus are acceptable.
George: I thought perhaps that 38 was a bit young for you, having read many of your posts and thinking that you had a more mature outlook and way of expressing yourself. Of course, if you are almost 39, that would account for it...[;)]
I can bring my clay tablet and cuneus (*blast,something else I don't know. goes to look up word[au].*)??? Well, then...make way. Because I'll need to bring my bible, too--and those scrolls are quite bulky! I hope no one is offended when my servants tote them all in...[:^)]
Esther
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Esther Jones said:
Another thing I realized that I'd want to have up is the highlighter tab. I have a specific (but simple) set of my own customized highlighting styles that I use when reading scripture, and I like to be able to mark things right then, when I come across them. That would be no different than having a highlighter set with me in church along with my bible...
Do you know that you can assign simple shortcut keys for your highlighting and don't have to have your pallet open?
http://wiki.logos.com/HighlightingEDIT: Using the shortcuts helps to reduce clutter and it is much easier to highlight this way. I assigned the "B" to Bold, "A" to my favorite most used highlighting style... making the shortcuts easily remembered by associating the shortcut designation to the color or type that I use.
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Sorry Esther, I misread the scenario you had in mind. I had it exactly backwards. I need to slow down.
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Praiser said:Esther Jones said:
Another thing I realized that I'd want to have up is the highlighter tab. I have a specific (but simple) set of my own customized highlighting styles that I use when reading scripture, and I like to be able to mark things right then, when I come across them. That would be no different than having a highlighter set with me in church along with my bible...
Do you know that you can assign simple shortcut keys for your highlighting and don't have to have your pallet open?
http://wiki.logos.com/HighlightingEDIT: Using the shortcuts helps to reduce clutter and it is much easier to highlight this way. I assigned the "B" to Bold, "A" to my favorite most used highlighting style... making the shortcuts easily remembered by associating the shortcut designation to the color or type that I use.
Oooo! Shiny!
I didn't know this! I will definitely be implementing this!
Esther
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As a teacher and a student I find the L4 tools to be a great benefit in the regular church service as well as bible studies . I have made my laptop my church Bible. At 55 I am kind of the pioneer in our church with a laptop but there are quite a few androids amongst the younger crowd and iPad is starting to make a decent showing thanks to several of the pastors using them for sermon notes. The challenge for a teacher in a classroom setting is having students with internet capabilities find info on the subject you're teaching and keep inserting their findings in the discussion. That can be both a hindrance and a help. It has occurred in my class at times.
As far as my setup, I have my "Church1" layout which is a very simple layout of NIV (pastor's version) and NASB( my pref) linked as well as each one in another pane not linked for cross referencing without losing my place in the study. I also have my greek and hebrew bibles linked for reference as well. The interlinear helps but sometimes I like to see the full text of the original languages. I also have a bible search pane available for some searches. For notes I have Word opened up and minimized unless I want to write something.
I find it takes discipline to keep engaged in the study and not "zing" off into my own findings at times but I have found some valuable "nuggets" in this way. I have had several people(including the pastor) approach me to find a particular passage that they cannot find.
Technology is a wonderful thing if not abused by being a distraction to what God is doing in the service/study.
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Douglas;
This sounds like the best setup for my situation yet! So you take your laptop right into church, eh? I've thought about asking, but still feel George's reluctance. Probably it is good sometimes to just sit and let the diligently-preached Word wash over us; but I am encouraged that some people really are taking their laptops into church.
As far as the problem of people inserting internet findings into the discussion--I think if I were teaching in a situation like that, I'd consider suggesting that interesting links be posted to Twitter, where I could evaluate them first before bringing them up to the general class, and asking that internet findings not be inserted into the discussion any other way--just as a courtesy to the other students. Actually, I think that links could be tweeted to everyone--I'm not as familiar with Twitter as perhaps I should be, but it seems it would be possible. They could do that without even interrupting the class, and those who had access could check it silently without disturbing the flow of the class.
Esther
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Esther,
My church is a non-traditional church and the pastor is encouraging the use of technology for furthering the Gospel, so there is no reticence on my part in using a laptop. I marvel at why they aren't used more considering the wide use of Facebook by churches and by Christians in general. I wonder why it is OK to be on blogs such as this at home and yet feel guilty using God's Word in church in a similar format. I consider media as a neutral influence, which can be used for evil or for God's glory (L4 [:)] ). I choose computers for the latter.
That is an excellent idea on the use of Twitter, although I am fairly ignorant of how it is used. I guess I'll have to move another inch forward in technology.
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Agree, agree, agree.
And I was thinking the same thing, about having to move forward and learn one more thing--i.e. twitter.
That's ok...it's supposed to keep alzheimer's at bay, right?[;)]
Esther
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Douglas
Do you use Logos to take notes at church? If so, do you use the Note feature or something else?
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George Somsel said:
Perhaps at 38 I'm too old for this, but I favor doing your study at home and participating in any discussion at church without a computer or iphone or whatever. There's something about bringing a piece of technical equipment into the church and sticking your nose in it that simply doesn't appeal to me.
I'm with George...at least for now.
I used to bring my laptop to church to follow along but really...no real study is possible because things are going by too fast and I can't concentrate and work L4 at the same time....not to mention the fact that it really didn't produce anything worth talking about...so big deal...I can look up a word that the pastor used....now what?
I found that I just take a few notes for study later....part of a phrase...a passage reference with a quick "look this up" sort of jotted note....
I'd rather concentrate on what the Pastor has prepared than be hitting all kinds of screens and buttons....it distracts me...
just my personal observation.....Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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I have used my laptop as my Bible exclusively for the last 3-4 years. I have used a hardback copy during that time probably less than half-a-dozen times. At my Tohraah study group, about half of the study area is chairs in rows and the rest is tables and chairs for those with computers to set up. About 25% of the folks use computers on average. Since our study group is called Beit Midrash, we utiilize the same Reading/Discussion format that the name implies. For that reason, my notes, and my abilitiy to do searches for specific verses, original language meanings, etc., is used frequently every week.
A friend of mine occasionally calls me Borg (a Star Trek referrence to a race of cyborgs) because I literally take my computer with me everywhere I go. I pull it out in restaurants, friend's homes, parks, or wherever, anytime the discussion turns to Scripture. I often carry my projector with me as well, so that I can project Logos on a blank wall and allow more folks to follow along. I even used my projector to conduct an open air Bible study on a mountain during Sukkohtth. I have sat in restaurants from 10pm to sunrise conducting open Bible studies with friends. The advantage is that everyone is literally on the same page when they are looking at my computer or projected image. People raise questions and 9 out of 10 times I am able to secure an answer in a few brief clicks. Needless to say, people rarely nod off, because they are participants and can usually have even tricky questions dealt with in moments.
I use Logos extensively every day for hours, whether in my own study or in public or private study situations. I will say, though, that if all I had to play with was L4, my usage pattern would unquestionably be much different.
I've said it before in other threads, but in my estimation, Logos is a presentation program with advanced search capabilities. Or rather, L3 is. L3's notes functions allows me to conduct Bible studies and seminars with very little need to draw on other resources. I will occasionally use L4 for the BPPT, or some other unique ability, but I primarily utilize L3 for my presentations. I never use PowerPoint. I can go into Hebrew, Greek, commentaries, etc. by simply pasting in the pertinent info into a contextual note and the nifty L3 pop-up window feature (severely and tragically truncated in L4), allows me to share any or all of my study on a word or verse right on the spot with zero "search time". It's all instantaneous, right there in my large pop-up.
I my view, L4 was three steps forward and ten steps back. I have likened L4 to being an idiot savant--worthless for most common tasks, but capable of astounding exhibitions of limited genius. I am speaking for myself and my usage patterns, of course. Obviously, if all you do is use L4, then your usage patterns will always conform to its abilities and you won't suffer the same agonizing frustration with it that I do. Many of the kinds of things I use L3 for on a daily basis are impossible using L4. Its like one leg and one eye were excised in the process of creating it, but, on the positive side, the remaining eye and leg are bionic! Hurray!!
That said, we have a projector in our group that is manned by someone using e-sword. I often wish he had Logos, even if it were L4.
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"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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David Paul said:
I have likened L4 to being an idiot savant--worthless for most common tasks, but capable of astounding exhibitions of limited genius.
I'm going to say that there is a grain of truth to this statement...let me explain.
IF all a person needed was a few bibles and a few commentaries and their most intense search is "how many times God says he loves something (in English) " then probably L4 is overkill and any simple or even simple and free bible study software would fit the bill....
What a person uses L4 for does directly impact how much use it is to them....very true.
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Alonzo,
I simply use Word to make my notes.
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Thanks!
I think I will continue to use paper for the notes in church and then put them into Logos 4 using the note feature.
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Alonzo Wharton said:
Thanks!
I think I will continue to use paper for the notes in church and then put them into Logos 4 using the note feature.
Wise choice. Give the service your full and undivided attention. If you know ahead of time what the passage for the sermon will be, you might prepare at home, take only sufficient notes to be able to jog your memory later, and enter them in your notes when you get home providing you think they are sufficiently worthwhile.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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I use L4 during classes and have found the following format workable. The following screenshot is taking up half of my screen so that I have the other half of the laptop screen running Word for note taking, outlines, etc.
In regards to L4, I like to have the Info window in use with prioritized lexicons in the Library to give quick info by simply hovering over a passage. I keep English dictionaries and Bible dictionaries handy in this slim vertical pane along with lots of other resources.
Bibles are stacked up with text comparisons of greek, text comparisons of english, search, and various specific translations. Primary bible as a link set is on the top.
Below is a set of unlinked bibles that are common comparison versions for me.
Hope that helps.
Blessings,
Chris
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