Lemma searching in TENTGM and TR1550MR

Again, just exploring how L4 works, I started a lemma search for σκυβαλον... because I wanted a word only used once, not to really look up the meaning (pretty obvious). I searched all open resources (UBS4, NA27, Elzivir TR, SBLGNT, Tischendorf, Byzantine (2005), Stephen's TR (1550) and the Text of the Earliest New Testament Greek Manuscripts. To my surprise, only 6 of the 8 open resources showed Phil 3:8.

Since the word used is actually σκυβαλα, I then searched specifically for it. Then all 8 returned the expected result (Phil 3:8).

Qn. Why did the lemma search not work for two resources (TENTGM and Stephen's TR 1550)?

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

Qn. Why did the lemma search not work for two resources (TENTGM and Stephen's TR 1550)?

Appears Stephens has lemma entry of "-' (but that does not explain Bible search differences for 7 other Greek New Testaments):

Also, P16 and P46 (TENTGM) have same lemma "-" as Stephens.

Keep Smiling [:)]

Dave Hooton

Qn. Why did the lemma search not work for two resources (TENTGM and Stephen's TR 1550)?

TENTGM/P16/P46 do not have lemmas and TR1550 has a different morphology - the right click search is <Lemma = mr/el/σκύβαλον> whilst the search you used was <Lemma = lbs/el/σκύβαλον>. See http://wiki.logos.com/Morphology_Codes#Greek_Morphological_Codes_used_in_Search & http://wiki.logos.com/Morphological_Search

Note that the right click menu will always show what data types are available eg. lemma.

EDIT: with Morph Search you must have selected Logos Greek Morphology whereas TR1550 uses Robinson Greek Morphology.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/236895#Comment_236895

TENTGM/P16/P46 do not have lemmas and TR1550 has a different morphology

Thanks - doing a New Testament Morph Search for lemma:σκύβαλον using a collection Language:Greek finds:

1 - Friberg Gree Morphology

2 - GRAMCORD Greek Morphology

16 - Logos Greek Morphology

3 - Robinson Greek Morphology (includes TR1550MR)

2 - Swanson Greek Morphology

Total of 24 is less than 31 resutls when searching All Morph Text for word greek:σκύβαλα that shows 7 New Testament texts do not have lemma's (including Stephens). Also learned Morph Search for greek word has same results regardless of morphology selected.

Thankful for this enlightening search; created a collection of Logos Greek Morphology resources.

Keep Smiling [:)]

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/236975#Comment_236975

Total of 24 is less than 31 resutls when searching All Morph Text for word greek:σκύβαλα that shows 7 New Testament texts do not have lemma's (including Stephens).

There can be reasons other than no lemma eg. different lemma! But Stephen's TR1550 (2009-10-27T01:47:56Z, TR1550MR.logos4) does have the lemma.

Also learned Morph Search for greek word has same results regardless of morphology selected.

The manuscript search (greek:word) is dependent upon the version of the Greek text, and the lemma used is dependent upon the morphology. Main differences exist between TR and Critical text versions like NA27/UBS4.

Is Mebin

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/237006#Comment_237006

The manuscript search (greek:word) is dependent upon the version of the Greek text, and the lemma used is dependent upon the morphology. Main differences exist between TR and Critical text versions like NA27/UBS4.

Mr Hooton, would you be so kind as to explain to a novice the exact difference you have stated (text v morphology)?

I sort of understand (I think). When I searched for σκυβαλα , with logos greek morphology, the result still displayed (word is the same as is in the text). But because I did a lemma search, the morphology needed to be that used by that text. Is that right?

Okay.....is there an easy way of knowing what morphology I should choose when searching within the varying texts?

And...why do morphologies differ in regards to the lemmas...that seems so non-universal and impractical.

I do hope I'm not displaying my ignorance here...but if you have the time, thank you.

Is Mebin

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/236975#Comment_236975

Thankful for this enlightening search; created a collection of Logos Greek Morphology resources.

Yes, me too...and thank you for your interaction...I am still playing with this search, and still learning a week on!

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/237254#Comment_237254

Mr Hooton, would you be so kind as to explain to a novice the exact difference you have stated (text v morphology)?

The text or manuscript is written by the author. Simply put, Morphology is the identification, analysis and description of the structure of words and parts of speech (noun, verb etc). A particular morphological scheme is also responsible for the assignment of lemmas, or dictionary words, as the likely basis of the manuscript word.

I sort of understand (I think). When I searched for σκυβαλα , with logos greek morphology, the result still displayed (word is the same as is in the text). But because I did a lemma search, the morphology needed to be that used by that text. Is that right?

That's pretty close.

Okay.....is there an easy way of knowing what morphology I should choose when searching within the varying texts?

Select a specific bible in Morph Search and it will reveal (via the drop down) the morphologies; choose the Greek one for NT books and the Hebrew one for OT books.

Logos Greek Morphology is the one most used by Greek bibles and all NT of Reverse Interlinear bibles. Andersen-Forbes Morphology is used for the OT of Reverse Interlinear bibles.

And...why do morphologies differ in regards to the lemmas...that seems so non-universal and impractical.

Different schemes, different conclusions .... different lemmas for some words! Also different parts of speech.

Is Mebin

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/237264#Comment_237264

Wow, lightning response!!!

I think I'm getting the hang of it now...I searched lemma:σκύβαλον with only the TR1550MR open, and the only option for morphology supplied was Robinson Greek Morphology....so in my original search, all the different morphologies were on the drop down bar because I had so many versions open. So, the TENTGM simply does not support lemma searching and seems to follow no particular morphology, just plain text...searchable by exact replication only.

Am I on track? I'm not sure how I would find any of this out without these forums, and the gracious responses [A]

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/237268#Comment_237268

TR1894MR is tagged with Logos Greek Morphology, which is a modified Beza 1598 Textus Receptus with changes that match readings chosen by 1611 KJV translators. Logos 4 Text Comparison between TR1550MR and TR1894MR for 1 John 5 showed 0% differences.

Option: can search TR1894MR for lemmas and compare text with TENTGM.

Keep Smiling [:)]

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/237268#Comment_237268

Am I on track?

Read the wiki eg. http://wiki.logos.com/Morphological_Search and the various links related to Search.