Supposedly Christian in origin and supposedly from the 1st century which supposedly mentions Jesus' crucifixion!
Jordan battles to regain 'priceless' Christian relics
Could this be the biggest find since the Dead Sea Scrolls? Seventy metal books found in cave in Jordan could change our view of Biblical history
Biblical scholars excited by ‘books’ discovered in Jordanian cave
Pretty exciting!
I wonder when these will show up on Pre-pub?
Here's another good article on the lead codices and other recent dramatic finds in biblical archaeology, from a Catholic perspective: Tabloid Biblical Archaeology Excellent article. The best analysis of the situation I have read yet. Thank you Rosie.
Here's another good article on the lead codices and other recent dramatic finds in biblical archaeology, from a Catholic perspective: Tabloid Biblical Archaeology
Here's another good article on the lead codices and other recent dramatic finds in biblical archaeology, from a Catholic perspective:
Tabloid Biblical Archaeology
Excellent article. The best analysis of the situation I have read yet. Thank you Rosie.
Trust Mark Shea to shout out when the emperor is naked. [:)] (Do you read H C Andersen in America?) He really is a great writer! And I still want him in Logos! (To anyone who enjoyed that article, and isn't afraid to have his assumptions challenged, try By What Authority? An Evangelical Discovers Catholic Tradition. It is very well written, and quite funny.)
I get it. 2000 years or so of been there - done that ; nothing new under the sun; aren't people silly - ourselves included?; God gave us reason - so use it! ... all in all a very Catholic (and some others) perspective.
[:D]
Here's another good article on the lead codices and other recent dramatic finds in biblical archaeology, from a Catholic perspective: Tabloid Biblical Archaeology Excellent article. The best analysis of the situation I have read yet. Thank you Rosie. Trust Mark Shea to shout out when the emperor is naked. (Do you read H C Andersen in America?)
Trust Mark Shea to shout out when the emperor is naked. (Do you read H C Andersen in America?)
I know nothing about the author. This is the first thing I have read by him. So I can only testify to the excellence of this one article.
Yes, I have read Andersen—even saw the movie. I believe Danny Kaye played Andersen.
Yes, I think it's too soon to get all excited about these. Remember the "Jesus' brother James" ossuary forgery?
On the ossuary, last I heard there were still some pretty solid voices claiming that the ossuary inscription is not a forgery. From the Biblical Archaeology Review in late 2008: "BAR has consistently supported the authenticity of the inscription, as have leading paleographers André Lemaire of the Sorbonne and Ada Yardeni of Hebrew University. All appear now to be vindicated." http://www.bib-arch.org/news/forgery-trial-news.asp
Some googling turns up more such discussions.
From the Biblical Archaeology Review in late 2008
Isn't this the publication directly addressed by Mark Shea?
Yes, but Andre Lemaire is no slouch. Shea did little but poo-poo the whole thing without making any arguments. On the other hand, as he does point out, the inscription may very well be genuine, but that doesn't mean it has anything to do with Jesus.
Shea did little but poo-poo the whole thing without making any arguments.
Which is in keeping with his training and audience. He's not a trained archeologist but he is an entertaining writer with a solid dose of commonsense. [:)]
Oh my, here we go again: Nails used to crucify Jesus found?
Why are reputable news outlets starting to sound more and more like supermarket tabloids? Whenever they have a question mark on the end of the story title, you know it's going to be another one of these wild speculations.
Oh my, here we go again: Nails used to crucify Jesus found? Why are reputable news outlets starting to sound more and more like supermarket tabloids? Whenever they have a question mark on the end of the story title, you know it's going to be another one of these wild speculations.
I just watched the video, I think I just threw up a little in my mouth. [+o(]
Oh my, here we go again: Nails used to crucify Jesus found? <snip> I just watched the video, I think I just threw up a little in my mouth.
Oh my, here we go again: Nails used to crucify Jesus found? <snip>
<snip>
I just watched the video, I think I just threw up a little in my mouth.
I heartily agree Thomas. While I have cautioned about arguing for or against the tablets until data about then is analyzed, this is one "claim" that has NO substantiating evidence or data. It just needs to go away.
You said it! Crucifixion nails having mystical powers? Yeah... I can think of one very definite *mystical' power they would have had: they would have made a high priest -- or any Jewish priest for that matter -- ritually unclean. If Caiaphas touched one, he'd be barred from entering the Temple and performing his duties.
There have been 30 or so other nails venerated as those from Jesus' cross: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Nails
They can't all be authentic. And as far as I'm concerned, it's not worth making any of them an object of veneration or speculation.
James's "wait and see" attitude on these recent discoveries is very prudent and practical. It's far too early to get excited. "Wait and see" is a good posture for now.
Lonnie
There have been 30 or so other nails venerated as those from Jesus' cross: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Nails They can't all be authentic. And as far as I'm concerned, it's not worth making any of them an object of veneration or speculation.
"They can't all be authentic."?
[:#] I'm trying very hard not to say the same about 30 or so Bible translations that disagree with each other. [6]
Oops. It just slipped out. [:$] Get back to the topic , Matthew [:@]
Whether Mark Shea is an scholar or entertainer (He is really very much both), he makes a great point about the timing of the press reports and asks the important question of "what does it really matter?".
"He claimed to have found the ossuary of somebody named "Jesus." For a first-century tomb, this is sort of like finding the ossuary of somebody named "Bob." But wait! There was more! The tomb also had ossuaries of people with first century equivalents of "Mary," "John," "Bill," "Susan," and "Jim." And DNA tests revealed . . . that they were related to each other!" - -Mark Shea @ http://www.insidecatholic.com/feature/tabloid-biblical-archaeology.html
Whoopdy do, whoopdy do!!! So what? There has to be some waiting time before too much is made of such "discoveries."
Why do we need to wait before pointing out that these nails are obviously phony? I was amazed when he held one of the nails between his thumb and index finger. Who on earth would ever believe that the Romans would attempt to nail someone to a cross with an 8d nail? I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and allow that it could have been a 10d nail, still quite insufficient to be driven through the heel of the hand or the foot and into the cross with even minimum holding power.
CNN must be very desperate for ratings to give publicity to such garbage.
Jack, yours is a very well-taken and astute point. With it, I surely agree. I guess I didn't make myself clear enough before, but what I mean to say is that before we get too excited about such things as though they were likeunto The Dead Sea Scrolls discovery, let's wait before ballyhooing them. Most turn out to be hoaxes anyway.
Thanks. Peace grace, love.
And among them were some of the earliest posts to Logos forums.
Amen!!!
So if these lead codices turn out to be fakes, that means we were all mis-lead?
groan
what I mean to say is that before we get too excited about such things as though they were likeunto The Dead Sea Scrolls discovery, let's wait before ballyhooing them. Most turn out to be hoaxes anyway.
Agreed. I usually tend to regard these amazing new discoveries are fakes until someone credible proves otherwise.
ROTFL...
Have to tell that one to my daughter.
There seem to be new developments on the lead codices. Apparently various testing of the codices suggest they may be very old and may even be early Christian documents. Below are the links where I found this news. I have not any other news items announcing this yet.
Tests Support 'Jordan Texts' Authenticity
The Earliest Christian Documents
It will be interesting to hear the results of further testing, especially if the full collection can be obtained and analyzed.
Greg,
Thanks for sharing this information because I hadn't heard it yet. And, even if they wind up not being Christian in origin, it is still a really cool find that I'd be interested in reading, providing I can get a great deal in Community Pricing [;)].
Have a blessed weekend and thanks again!
Christina
The metal plates seem to be infested with rust. Do you think they will be able to recover any writings from the damage of the rust?
In God we trust.
Dan
Hi Greg.
An important countering opinion to the thinking that these lead codices are genuine is found in Dr. James Davila's blog, here:
http://paleojudaica.blogspot.com/2011_06_12_archive.html#1608255452773079360
The thing to remember is that they're testing the metal, not the content. There have been obvious forgeries located in the same supposed collection of codices, and forgers are known to use ancient sources (lead) when they can find it.
Davila keeps up to date on this stuff, as does Logos' own Dr. Michael S. Heiser, whose latest blog entry on the lead codices can be found here: http://michaelsheiser.com/PaleoBabble/2011/06/lead-codices-update-2/
Hi Rick.
Thanks for the additional links. I'm just updating according to what I've heard.
Ben Witherington linked a video clip debunking these lead codices as fake:
http://www.patheos.com/community/bibleandculture/2011/09/22/the-lead-codices-hoax-exposed/
