OT Syntax Search in A-F, Cognate between predicate and object

James W Bennett said:

I've had three votes on this feature for almost a year

Same here.

I just gave it three votes. It now stands at 103 votes.

The things that come up to mind are:

1) to investigate the semantic field of a word you need to see how its cognates behave.

2) To understand why a translator (LXX, Peshitta etc.) translated a Hebrew word with a certain lemma (sometimes he derives his interpretation of a verb from a noun from the same root)

3) to investigate syntactic and morphological behaviour as shown in this search.

4) To learn. When you learn a semitic language you cover the varied manifestations of the roots. Thus if you reach the word חלם to dream  you also learn the noun חלום dream. you also need to understand the noun patterns i.e. the ways in which the root materialises as a noun.

Thus if you want to understand what the verb ברא (create) means, you need to cover בריאה (creation) as well.

and to demonstrate the second section see 2 Chr 35:13

The Hebrew reads:

     "וַֽיְבַשְּׁל֥וּ הַפֶּ֛סַח בָּאֵ֖שׁ כַּמִּשְׁפָּ֑ט וְהַקֳּדָשִׁ֣ים בִּשְּׁל֗וּ בַּסִּיר֤וֹת וּבַדְּוָדִים֙ וּבַצֵּ֣לָח֔וֹת וַיָּרִ֖יצוּ לְכָל־בְּנֵ֥י הָעָֽם׃"

ESV: "And they roasted the Passover lamb with fire according to the rule; and they yboiled the holy offerings in pots, in cauldrons, and in pans, and carried them quickly to all the lay people."

But LXX:

"καὶ ὤπτησαν τὸ φασεχ ἐν πυρὶ κατὰ τὴν κρίσιν καὶ τὰ ἅγια ἥψησαν ἐν τοῖς χαλκείοις καὶ ἐν τοῖς λέβησιν, καὶ εὐοδώθη, καὶ ἔδραμον πρὸς πάντας τοὺς υἱοὺς τοῦ λαοῦ."

in the English translation of Brenton: "And thus they did till the morning. And they roasted the passover with fire according to the †ordinance; and boiled the holy pieces in copper vessels and caldrons, and the feast went on well, and they quickly served all the children of the people."

The word צלחת (small bowl) occurs only 3 more times in the OT and only once is it translated in the LXX. This is the only place in the OT where it occurs in the plural. The translator misinterpreted this word as "to go well". He understood that the root here is צל"ח he knew well the verb צלח with the same consonantal root (even if etymologically different) which means to succeed and be successful (Isa 53:10 Jer 12:1 etc.)  so he translated בצלחות as to go well or to succeed. This is a famous example and it is quoted in the LXX lexicons and in the commentaries so you can depend upon them to give you this information but usually you need to solve these problems on your own. If you cannot search by root = if you cannot think using the translator's paradigms you are handicapped.  

MJ. Smith said:

David Knoll said:

Lexemes are simply incompatible with Semitic Languages.

Please vote for http://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-4/suggestions/682641-stem-cognate-search

As the one who originated this item on Uservoice thanks to everyone who has voted for it. I can think of no other search feature that would upgrade Logos' usefulness so drastically as the ability to search for roots/stems

If you're on the fence about this one hop off and jump in, it really will be that useful!

David Knoll said:

and to demonstrate the second section see 2 Chr 35:13

Can i ask a dumb question?

Why did the LXX translate it that way also "to do well"?

Are you saying that the  translators of the LXX are incorrect also?

Just trying to understand...

Robert Pavich said:

Can i ask a dumb question?

Why did the LXX translate it that way also "to do well"?

Are you saying that the  translators of the LXX are incorrect also?

Just trying to understand...

Robert,

David did answer your question already here

David Knoll said:

The word צלחת (small bowl) occurs only 3 more
times in the OT and only once is it translated in the LXX. This is the
only place in the OT where it occurs in the plural. The translator
misinterpreted this word as "to go well". He understood that the root
here is צל"ח he knew well the verb צלח with the same consonantal root
(even if etymologically different) which means to succeed and be
successful (Isa 53:10 Jer 12:1
etc.)  so he translated בצלחות as to go well or to succeed. This is a
famous example and it is quoted in the LXX lexicons and in the
commentaries so you can depend upon them to give you this information
but usually you need to solve these problems on your own. If you cannot
search by root = if you cannot think using the translator's paradigms
you are handicapped.  

The English translation of the Septuagint shows that the LXX translator mistook a rare form for a similar and more common word, something that can be easy to do with Hebrew. So, yes the LXX translator here was wrong. David's point is that searching by roots will make this kind of analysis easier.

Just to let you know that I emailed Vincent Setterholm to ask him to comment on this thread. Hopefully he'll do so after the easter break.