Bug: Logos 4 resource hogging
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Peter Covert said:Francis said:
I got the "Logos 4 stopped working - close the program" window.
I get this window every couple of minutes. When I open a note file, when I open a layout, when I open a book, when I ...
Peter, that is highly unusual. Can we help you try to figure out what is going on that's unique to your situation? Could you post the crash log file (Logos4Crash.txt) from the last time it did this? Also even better would be to enable permanent logging and upload the full Log file (Logos4.log) here to the forum. For more information on possible causes of crashes and how to fix the problem see: http://wiki.logos.com/Windows_Troubleshooting#Logos_4_.28or_the_Logos_4_indexer.29_crashes
If it's truly happening that often, though, you might have a corrupt installation of Logos and need to reinstall it from scratch.
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Rosie Perera said:Peter Covert said:Francis said:
I got the "Logos 4 stopped working - close the program" window.
I get this window every couple of minutes. When I open a note file, when I open a layout, when I open a book, when I ...
Peter, that is highly unusual. Can we help you try to figure out what is going on that's unique to your situation? Could you post the crash log file (Logos4Crash.txt) from the last time it did this? Also even better would be to enable permanent logging and upload the full Log file (Logos4.log) here to the forum. For more information on possible causes of crashes and how to fix the problem see: http://wiki.logos.com/Windows_Troubleshooting#Logos_4_.28or_the_Logos_4_indexer.29_crashes
If it's truly happening that often, though, you might have a corrupt installation of Logos and need to reinstall it from scratch.
Maybe I should not have had the second glass of banana wine for desert. L4 is not crashing; the window that I get all the time states L4 has stopped responding. After 30 to 300 seconds later, L4 comes back to life.
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Peter Covert said:
L4 is not crashing; the window that I get all the time states L4 has stopped responding. After 30 to 300 seconds later, L4 comes back to life.
Yes, that is the known problem of Logos being unexplainably slow in certain situations. If you have a reasonably fast machine and are still getting this problem all the time, generating log files to provide to Logos would still be helpful. I can't guarantee that they'll be able to troubleshoot your specific situation, but they are interested in getting to the bottom of this intermittent problem.
I can't recall if you've already been involved in threads that pointed to the suggested ways you can tune up the performance of your installation of Logos on your own. See http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_Running_Slowly and http://wiki.logos.com/Speeding_up_Logos_4_responses
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A note about "setting internet use to no" in order to reduce syncing with its negative effect on performance: certain functions of Logos 4 that one may not think of at first will be disabled. Among these: reading lists are disabled and won't appear in search results. Also sermon websites won't appear in the Passage Guide. There may be other features disabled that I have not discovered yet.
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Francis said:
A note about "setting internet use to no" in order to reduce syncing with its negative effect on performance: certain functions of Logos 4 that one may not think of at first will be disabled. Among these: reading lists are disabled and won't appear in search results. Also sermon websites won't appear in the Passage Guide. There may be other features disabled that I have not discovered yet.
Also, the "Report Typo" command will not appear on the right-click menu.
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Rosie Perera said:
Also, the "Report Typo" command will not appear on the right-click menu.
That's a problem not so much for usability but I do report typos regularly. All in all, I wished sync could be set to a schedule or upon exit. What would the rest of you think of that as an option?
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Francis said:Rosie Perera said:
Also, the "Report Typo" command will not appear on the right-click menu.
That's a problem not so much for usability but I do report typos regularly. All in all, I wished sync could be set to a schedule or upon exit. What would the rest of you think of that as an option?
You also cannot download any new resources that you have just purchased.
The only reason why this slows down L4 so much comes from bad design/programming. I have another program that syncs a lot more data than L4, the data changes faster than L4, and it does not slow down the program/computer like the sync function within L4 does.
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tom collinge said:
You also cannot download any new resources that you have just purchased.
Tom, what I meant was if internet use was set to yes AND sync was schedulable rather than on-the-go (as are updates currently). I agree with you that design might be part of the problem though I dare not affirm it since I am no expert but know that differences between programs could account for differences in the way seemingly similar processes go. Still, it seems to be that a complete re-write is often not done right away and can take a while to be implemented. So, my question about using schedulable sync is an attempt to look for the next best relief.
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Francis said:
A note about "setting internet use to no" in order to reduce syncing with its negative effect on performance: certain functions of Logos 4 that one may not think of at first will be disabled. Among these: reading lists are disabled and won't appear in search results. Also sermon websites won't appear in the Passage Guide. There may be other features disabled that I have not discovered yet.
Logos 4 was not designed to have sync turned off and on on a whim. Doing so may cause problems. (Or the problems described in that thread may be caused by something else; we don't know yet.) We strongly advise you to keep "Use Internet" always set to "Yes" if you ever sync between multiple computers.
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Bradley Grainger said:
Logos 4 was not designed to have sync turned off and on on a whim. Doing so may cause problems. (Or the problems described in that thread may be caused by something else; we don't know yet.) We strongly advise you to keep "Use Internet" always set to "Yes" if you ever sync between multiple computers.
Hi Bradley,
Since you used my posting as an example, I simply wanted to say that I cannot (and do not) use L4 with the internet setting set to yes. I typically receive the "logos has stopped responding" message every couple of minutes. If I have the internet setting set to yes, I get the message almost every time I click on something. Not only do I get more "not responding" messages with the setting set to yes; L4 hangs longer with each message.
As I said in the thread, I found a different (AND A MUCH FASTER) way to sync my notes. The only reason I wanted to use sync this time was to move my highlighting and visual filters. Once I get those items from one computer to the other, I will be going back to my old way of syncing my notes.
FYI... Once some of my prepubs go live next week, I will attempt to sync my visual filters and highlighting.
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Bradley Grainger said:
Logos 4 was not designed to have sync turned off and on on a whim
So... why do we have a setting to set internet use to yes or no? And what about work offline? Even aside from performance issues considerations, I do have from time to time to use L4 in locations where I am not online. Can you clarify what you wrote, Bradley?
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What if Logos designed layouts based on libraries, and had us test various scenarios using only those resources. Another thought is for them to give us an easy way to back up our settings, then run various scenarios to test for speed, and a software that ca look at startup programs, settings, hardware, upload it to the cloud, and they can examine the log files.
Those concerned with privacy can always opt out of the test.
Another suggestion is for Logos to remote control various computers on a voluntary basis, examine the setup and hardware and look for common scenarios that will help trouble shoot performance issues.
What are your thoughts?
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
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Francis said:Bradley Grainger said:
Logos 4 was not designed to have sync turned off and on on a whim
So... why do we have a setting to set internet use to yes or no? And what about work offline? Even aside from performance issues considerations, I do have from time to time to use L4 in locations where I am not online. Can you clarify what you wrote, Bradley?
Some people just prefer to run Logos 4 "off the grid". (And for some users in other countries, not having it initiate any network connections can be extremely important.) Sometimes you may be connected to a network that charges by the megabyte, and want to restrict Internet use to only what's absolutely necessary. There are good reasons to turn it off, which is why we left the option in the software.
The system is designed to accommodate computers being offline for periods of time, and it will try to merge all changes from all computers as best it can, but it may not be perfect. (In the interests of not destroying any work you've done, we choose to create duplicates when there are conflicts, rather than delete items. This kind of duplication has been noted on the forums a number of times.)
The sync system will work best when all machines that are involved in sync are pushing changes up to the server as soon as they happen. This order of events is the least likely to create unwanted duplicates, overwritten preferences, and other sync conflicts. What I would like to discourage is any kind of complicated process in which Internet use is being switched on and off on a daily basis across multiple machines; we can't stop you doing it [:)], but you're not using the system in the way it was intended, and it may generate unnecessary or undesired sync conflicts.
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Ron Keyston Jr said:Francis said:
So... why do we have a setting to set internet use to yes or no?
IIRC, it is because some of the users demanded it. I could be remembering incorrectly, but I don't believe that option was available initially.
Ron you are correct. It had to do with bandwidth caps by some.
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
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Bradley Grainger said:
it may not be perfect
Not good enough Bradley. Users expect software to work all of the time.
And it is not the user's fault for using a program in a way that "it was not designed for." While the designers/developers cannot think of everything, it is their job to make sure the program to work 100% of the time irreverent on how users use the program.
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Bradley Grainger said:
The sync system will work best when all machines that are involved in sync are pushing changes up to the server as soon as they happen.
I understand the logic, Bradley, and thanks for the explanation. In my case, and perhaps in that of others, syncing between multiple computers may not be that great of a need (as opposed to back ups to the server). My wife has an installation and has her own note sets. She only changes her sets (rarely) and I change mine (daily) on my computer. As far as I know, it does not cause any problems since there are no risks of duplication or can you foresee how it could? I guess where I am going with that question is to know whether the issue you mention would apply differently to a case like mine than that of single users using multiple computers (home, work, etc).
If it should prove that it would not be a problem in a case like mine (to be confirmed) then it would still be a desirable option to be able to schedule syncs instead of needing to do them as soon as changes happen. But if this proves to be NOT the solution, it would bring us back to the need of a more radical solution: optimization of the sync feature so that it does affect performance so adversely.
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NovaBench Score: 854 This is quite a good score but no where near Rosie's "mongo" score.
But we do have similar problems "spinning wheels" etc.
And even with quite a nice machine:
I've started to "uncheck" most/all of my visual filters. I keep all of the "follow" tools off.
I rarely "link" resources.
I uncheck all of the "Cited by" collections.Regards, SteveF
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SteveF said:
I uncheck all of the "Cited by" collections.
You don't need to uncheck these. Just collapse each one until you need one of them and then collapse it again.
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Jack Caviness said:
You don't need to uncheck these.
Thanks Jack.
In a related but different issue, I'm (like Rosie) trying to figure out why it takes so long to populate some off the dropdown menus.
The parallel resources ones have been greatly improved.
But In Search "Bible" if I do not want to accept "Top" "all" or "all open" Bibles it takes at least 45 seconds to get any other choices to appear.
I have many many collections and many many tags. This appears to be causing the problem.
But I've added these collections and tags for help in other parts of the program. BUT THIS part [search Bibles] apparently stumbles over that decision/choice.
Suggestions?
Regards, SteveF
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Francis said:
I understand the logic, Bradley, and thanks for the explanation. In my case, and perhaps in that of others, syncing between multiple computers may not be that great of a need (as opposed to back ups to the server). My wife has an installation and has her own note sets. She only changes her sets (rarely) and I change mine (daily) on my computer. As far as I know, it does not cause any problems since there are no risks of duplication or can you foresee how it could? I guess where I am going with that question is to know whether the issue you mention would apply differently to a case like mine than that of single users using multiple computers (home, work, etc).
I was primarily concerned with the multiple computer situation, where turning sync off and on may lead to different computers having overlapping updates that need to be reconciled.
If you are just using Logos 4 on one computer (and the purpose of sync is to back up documents so that perhaps one day when you upgrade to a new computer, they can all automatically transfer to the new machine), then syncing immediately is not as important. (From the server's perspective, it really doesn't know--or care--whether your machine was turned off for a week, or if Logos 4 was running but not syncing. It all ends up the same in the end.) Keep in mind though that it's not just Logos 4 that syncs: if you use the iPhone app (or the upcoming Android app) or biblia.com, then some of your data is being synced between those servers (and the amount of synced data will increase in the future as new features are developed for those platforms).
In order not to confuse people unnecessarily, my personal preference is to keep the recommendation for sync simple ("If you're syncing, leave Use Internet On"), and not come up with a complicated rule such as "Turn sync on unless you're in situation A in which case you can turn it off except for this rare exceptional case A1 in which it should be left on, but be aware of circumstance B in which case you should only run sync on days that end in 'y'." [:)]
Also, recommendations posted on the forum that are specific to one user can be picked up and read out of context by someone doing a Google search, who just grabs the latest post and doesn't read the full history of that recommendation, so I hesitate to make a specific statement that could be misinterpreted as a general one.
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Richard DeRuiter said:
speed issues involve some huge unknowns in L4.
Thanks to all who are contributing here.
Having upgraded to a falrly nice machine, the slow dropdowns, slow populating, syncing etc is (still) a major issue.
And yes, I know it is still much faster than searching physical books, but I do not think that is really addressing the issue.
It would be helpful to know if this is a built in WPF issue or if it is the result of the "program first-optimize later" philosophy adopted by Logos.
If it is the former we are at Microsofts mercy. As to the later...
Regards, SteveF
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SteveF said:
It would be helpful to know if this is a built in WPF issue or if it is the result of the "program first-optimize later" philosophy adopted by Logos.
I will say that it is a combination of both. This being said, I have found out that I have two other programs (both by Microsoft) built using WPF, and they do not have the issues that L4 has. The text areas in these programs do not have a delay at all. Then again, Evernote moved away from WPF because they were having the same issues L4 is having.
There is an old saying, if you fail to plan, you plan to fail. There is ample evidence that there was not enough planning that went into L4 (as indicated with the "program first-optimize later philosophy.")
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Graham Criddle said:
I've just right-clicked on the word "the" in John1:1 in the ESV (the "the" in "the Word was with God") and it took 22 seconds for the right-side of the context menu to fully populate.
I've just tried this again with 4.3 B4 (which has a fix to this problem) and am really impressed. It generates the right-click menu much more quickly. I would say it takes less than a second.
Checking some other words, the overall process of generating the context menu seems much snappier.
Great job,
Graham
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Yup, dropping down the "Search in" menu in Bible search now takes about 6 seconds for me, down from about 30 seconds in the previous Beta. Great job, Logos! I would have loved 1-2 seconds, but I can live with this. I realize I have a lot of collections, so I'll be forgiving. [:)]
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[Y] Yay for performance optimization!! [:)]
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Dave Hooton said:
For a common word "the", the context menu populates quickly in EBC Intro and slowly in NET Bible & ESV bible.
"a" populated quickly in EBC Intro but took over 2 min in NET Bible and ESV (1 Pe 5:1).
This has been fixed in 4.3 Beta 4 - the menu now populates in about 1sec!
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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