never default to the article.
when I do a Bible Word Study on certain words, it connects to several underlying Greek words. I had to call tech support to figure this out. The odd thing to me is that it defaults to the article rather than the main word. Very rarely would I want to know about the article. It seems it would be better if it defaulted to the main word instead of the article. In the example below, I want to know about Theos, not Tw
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I definitely agree; quite often I hit the lemma for the article, and then it spins its wheels since articles are so common. I'm guessing they're using a sub-routine that moves thru the sequence in order of occurance.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Josh Hunt said:
when I do a Bible Word Study on certain words, it connects to several underlying Greek words. I had to call tech support to figure this out. The odd thing to me is that it defaults to the article rather than the main word. Very rarely would I want to know about the article. It seems it would be better if it defaulted to the main word instead of the article. In the example below, I want to know about Theos, not Tw
How often do I need to tell you NEVER USE AN INTERLINEAR ! If you use the NA27 and right-click on θεῳ in your passage then on "Bible Word Study", it will work.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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my sin is worse than you think. I use a reverse interlinear. Terrible, I know. I actually think it is a good way to get familiar with the words, reading large blocks of text every day and getting familiar with the underlying Greek words.
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Josh Hunt said:
my sin is worse than you think. I use a reverse interlinear. Terrible, I know. I actually think it is a good way to get familiar with the words, reading large blocks of text every day and getting familiar with the underlying Greek words.
If you insist on being a reprobate, at least open the NA27 and link it with your interlinear so you can use it for your BWS.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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it is all about quick. which is quicker, to find the appropriate word in the NA27 and do the word study from there, or to select the right word from the interlinear?
What is so horrible about an interlinear, anyway?
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Josh Hunt said:
What is so horrible about an interlinear, anyway?
- It keeps you from learning the original language.
- You are limited in your understanding of the words in the original to those which appear in the translation of your choice (so why not simply use the translation alone?)
- They're ugly.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George Somsel said:It keeps you from learning the original language.
You are limited in your understanding of the words in the original to those which appear in the translation of your choice (so why not simply use the translation alone?)
They're ugly.4. George doesn't like them.
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Damian McGrath said:George Somsel said:It keeps you from learning the original language.
You are limited in your understanding of the words in the original to those which appear in the translation of your choice (so why not simply use the translation alone?)
They're ugly.4. George doesn't like them.
5. People who don't know the languages but like to pretend that they are getting something profound from it like to use them.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Personally prefer Greek interlinear display with Greek manuscript and Louw-Nida #'s so can hover mouse over Louw-Nida # for semantic domain English gloss pop-up (more insight than literal translation):
Thankful for Lexham Discourse Greek New Testament using Bold emphasis that shows word order variance for emphasis (have added a Visual Filter that is compatible with my Logos Greek Morphology filters so can see emphasis along with highlighted grammatical usage).
Also like being able to click Louw-Nida # to open a lexicon, then can right click on lemma in lexicon, selection has 5 prioritized lexicons so can quickly open more:
Hovering mouse over reference in "Lexham Analytical Lexicon to the Greek New Testament" shows verse in highest prioritized Bible.
Also noticed θεός has 6 semantic domain (contextual) uses in New Testament along with several cognate (related) words.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Personally prefer Greek interlinear display with Greek manuscript and Louw-Nida #'s so can hover mouse over Louw-Nida # for semantic domain English gloss pop-up (more insight that literal translation):
I almost never use LN. BDAG is much preferable.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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I do think this is a very good and necessary suggestion...it's not such a big deal when I have huge screen real estate like on my desktop where I can see the article and the actual word I want to look up. But when screen real estate is limited like on my laptop, it is annoying to have scroll down to get to the word I want.
Please have the article come second.
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
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George Somsel said:
BDAG is easier to read in Libronix 3.0g (color coding); wish for Logos 4 formatting improvement => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/32633/243659.aspx#243659
Also BDAG is like Strong's (and English Dictionaries) that list all possible meanings for a word. If BDAG does not list verse reference, left to ponder which meaning is appropriate for contextual usage. Hence prefer Louw-Nida that provides contextual (semantic domain) insight by some experienced Greek translators. My Top 5 lexicons include BDAG when want to see historical range of Greek word meaning.
Jacob Hantla said:I do think this is a very good and necessary suggestion...it's not such a big deal when I have huge screen real estate like on my desktop where I can see the article and the actual word I want to look up. But when screen real estate is limited like on my laptop, it is annoying to have scroll down to get to the word I want.
Please have the article come second.
[Y] - would appreciate default to lemma (instead of article) in English Reverse Interlinear Bibles.Keep Smiling [:)]
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Also BDAG is like Strong's (and English Dictionaries) that list all possible meanings for a word. If BDAG does not list verse reference, left to ponder which meaning is appropriate for contextual usage. Hence prefer Louw-Nida that provides contextual (semantic domain) insight by some experienced Greek translators. My Top 5 lexicons include BDAG when want to see historical range of Greek word meaning.
That's why you check the usage cited in BDAG. The passages are listed so you can LOOK THEM UP. The idea is that you see how the word is used in a particular sense -- such things as other words used in the context which are peculiar to that usage. LN (in Logos) is like having someone chew your food for you. You click on the link and you get a gloss or two that SOMEONE ELSE has determined should be used in that particular context. Personally, I prefer to decide for myself (and sometimes I don't even use one of the choices listed -- check a thesaurus for related terms).
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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For once I agree with George. That's why BDAG is rarely my first choice for greek; it often presumes a theological interpretation. I start with MM, work backwards into the LXX, maybe LSJ, and then maybe the apostolic fathers. Semantic categories are often assumptions.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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George Somsel said:
Also BDAG is like Strong's (and English Dictionaries) that list all possible meanings for a word. If BDAG does not list verse reference, left to ponder which meaning is appropriate for contextual usage. Hence prefer Louw-Nida that provides contextual (semantic domain) insight by some experienced Greek translators. My Top 5 lexicons include BDAG when want to see historical range of Greek word meaning.
That's why you check the usage cited in BDAG. The passages are listed so you can LOOK THEM UP. The idea is that you see how the word is used in a particular sense -- such things as other words used in the context which are peculiar to that usage. LN (in Logos) is like having someone chew your food for you. You click on the link and you get a gloss or two that SOMEONE ELSE has determined should be used in that particular context. Personally, I prefer to decide for myself (and sometimes I don't even use one of the choices listed -- check a thesaurus for related terms).
Observation: BDAG cited usage is not exhaustive. For example, Romans 14:6 has two occurrences of
τῷ θεῷ 92.24 12.1 BDAG has 5 definitions for θεός plus 11 sub points with many passages listed, but none of them cite Romans 14:6
Screen shot also shows my Logos Greek Morphology visual filters with Discourse Analysis emphasis filter.
The introduction to Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament : Based on semantic domains (Louw-Nida # lexicon) concludes with:
In general, the order which has been selected for domains proceeds from generic to specific. Note, for example, that Domain 42 Perform, Do is highly generic and is then followed by a number of specific types of specialized activities (namely, Domains 43–57). Similarly, Domain 58 heads up the section of abstracts in that it deals with such highly abstract features as kind, class, and nature. Domain 58 is then followed by a number of abstract domains, starting with Quantity, Number, Sequence, and Arrange, Organize and then proceeding later to such domains as Time, Aspect, Degree, etc. Within any domain, the subdomains are likewise arranged primarily on the basis of varying degrees of specificity. Note, for example, the outline of the subdomains in Domain 30 Think:
A. To Think, Thought
B. To Think About, with the Implied Purpose of Responding Appropriately
C. To Think Concerning Future Contingencies
D. To Intend, To Purpose, To Plan
E. To Decide, To Conclude
F. To Choose, To Select, To Prefer
G. To Distinguish, To Evaluate, To Judge
Such a set is not strictly in a hierarchical arrangement of generic to specific, but it does constitute a cluster of subdomains which are related to one another largely in terms of greater degrees of specificity.
For those preparing a lexicon in any language, and especially for those dealing with a form of language used some two thousand years ago, there are a host of problems resulting from indeterminacy in the range of referents, fuzzy boundaries, incomplete sets of related meanings, limitations in the corpus and background data, and specialization of meaning due to the uniqueness of the message. In the preparation of this lexicon, these problems have constituted real challenges, and the editors are not at all sure that they have found fully satisfactory solutions to many of these difficulties, even as the footnotes suggest. But despite these limitations, the editors sincerely trust that translators and others will find significant help and insights leading to further analyses in the critical areas of lexical semantics.
For more information on the theory and practice of this lexicon, see under Louw and Nida in the Bibliography.
Louw, J. P., & Nida, E. A. (1996). Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament : Based on semantic domains (electronic ed. of the 2nd edition.). New York: United Bible societies.
Looking at copyright dates, noticed BDAG preceded Louw-Nida #'s by many years (1957 vs 1988) so BDAG was available for consultation while Louw-Nida pondered problems and difficulties. Hence, personally choose to start studying with Louw-Nida #'s (cognizant BDAG compilation of word meanings faced similar difficulties as Louw-Nida for a language used some two thousand years ago). Also reserve option to disagree with Louw-Nida while expanding my boundaries of language ignorance (know have much more to learn).
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Observation: BDAG cited usage is not exhaustive. For example, Romans 14:6 has two occurrences of
τῷ θεῷ 92.24 12.1 BDAG has 5 definitions for θεός plus 11 sub points with many passages listed, but none of them cite Romans 14:6
I see that you prefer to have someone else chew your food for you.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George Somsel said:
Observation: BDAG cited usage is not exhaustive. For example, Romans 14:6 has two occurrences of
τῷ θεῷ 92.24 12.1 BDAG has 5 definitions for θεός plus 11 sub points with many passages listed, but none of them cite Romans 14:6
I see that you prefer to have someone else chew your food for you.
Apologies: already stated my current Logos Bible Study preference to use later scholarly contextual classifications:
Looking at copyright dates, noticed BDAG preceded Louw-Nida #'s by many years (1957 vs 1988) so BDAG was available for consultation while Louw-Nida pondered problems and difficulties. Hence, personally choose to start studying with Louw-Nida #'s (cognizant BDAG compilation of word meanings faced similar difficulties as Louw-Nida for a language used some two thousand years ago). Also reserve option to disagree with Louw-Nida while expanding my boundaries of language ignorance (know have much more to learn).
Another apology: BDAG information is too tightly packed together (reduce. print. cost yrs. ago) so difficult for me to read (compil. of scholarly notes sep. by ";" w. abbr., including Greek context. words) and use effectively (much time need. to decipher abbr. and look up ref. to comp. context whether similar or diff.); dreaming of reformatted BDAG for Logos 4 => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/32633/243659.aspx#243659
For readability, do like Adolf Deissman's Bible Studies that preceded BDAG and includes many papyri contribution insights to word meaning.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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George, brother you are a hoot!!! [img]http://www.websmileys.com/sm/animal/4.gif[/img] - `can’t learn it if ya can’t read it’ [8-|]
DISCLAIMER: What you do on YOUR computer is your doing.
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