OSX Lion 10.7
Is Logos Beta testing the upcoming "Lion" release from Apple with Logos 4? I am trying to anticipate an upgrade and and recommendations would be appreciated.
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Ditto - thinking of new hardware which will have Lion installed as my old Mac Pro can't run Mac in 64 bit kernel mode. Would be nice to know that Logos 4 Mac will run and run OK.
"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein
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None of the versions currently work under the developer release of Lion. I hope Logos realizes that Lion is going to be released in a few weeks and that a working version will be available.
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As a user, not know if Logos internally testing Lion with Logos 4 Mac.
Have read one thread about Logos 4 Beta 2 (4.30.0.0213) crash on Lion DP2 => L4 Mac v4.30.213 (60213) crashes under Lion DP2
Personally hope to upgrade to Lion after reading many articles => http://www.appleinsider.com/topics/Mac_OS_X_10.7.html especially multi user screen sharing that should allow simultaneous use of Logos 4 Mac by couple users.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Tech Support - Can you address this - This is an important question for anyone planing to buy a new mac and/or upgrade their operating system probably in the next few months.
Thanks
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Assuming that there are no significant (from our perspectives) changes between the beta and the GM seed, we intend to have a 10.7-compatible version of Logos available before the launch of 10.7. However, it's entirely possible that the final release of 10.7 will contain new incompatibilities with our software. As Apple typically doesn't release the final version to developers long before (sometimes at all before) general availability, we may not have time to address such issues before users install 10.7.
David Mitchell
Development Lead
Faithlife0 -
David,
Thanks for the update -
Larry
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David Mitchell said:
Assuming that there are no significant (from our perspectives) changes between the beta and the GM seed, we intend to have a 10.7-compatible version of Logos available before the launch of 10.7. However, it's entirely possible that the final release of 10.7 will contain new incompatibilities with our software. As Apple typically doesn't release the final version to developers long before (sometimes at all before) general availability, we may not have time to address such issues before users install 10.7.
Thanks David, I personally don't need to get Lion right away and will wait till I hear that Logos is working fine under it before I do my Upgrade.
-Dan
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Dan Francis said:David Mitchell said:
Assuming that there are no significant (from our perspectives) changes between the beta and the GM seed, we intend to have a 10.7-compatible version of Logos available before the launch of 10.7. However, it's entirely possible that the final release of 10.7 will contain new incompatibilities with our software. As Apple typically doesn't release the final version to developers long before (sometimes at all before) general availability, we may not have time to address such issues before users install 10.7.
Thanks David, I personally don't need to get Lion right away and will wait till I hear that Logos is working fine under it before I do my Upgrade.
[Y] Thanks. Personally hoping to upgrade a Logos 4 Mac Beta configuration after Lion ships.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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I am running a developer version of Lion and would be happy to pilot or test out any version in advance.
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david proctor said:
I am running a developer version of Lion and would be happy to pilot or test out any version in advance.
Wiki has Logos 4 Beta Program with information and risks. Suggest testing current Logos 4 Mac Beta; if encounter issues, wiki page Mac Troubleshooting => How to Report Bugs in Logos 4 Mac section has log posting steps and links to Mac Diagnostic Logging (need to enable diagnostic logging in Logos 4.3 Beta 5 since default changed). If encounter Beta issues, please post (and reply) in Mac Beta forum. If history repeats, anticipating Logos 4.3 Beta 6 release next week.
Currently not know which will ship first: Mac OS X Lion or stable Logos 4.3 version for Mac and PC.
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I am typing this on OS 10.7 DP 3. The latest beta of Logos 4 for Mac (4.30.586) does not run. It will not even open. David Mitchell's answer of "we intend to have a 10.7-compatible version," still does not answer the question "is Logos Beta testing the upcoming "Lion" release from Apple with Logos 4?"
I am a long time Logos user (1995). I am also a long time Mac User. I have been waiting every so patiently for a truly Mac version of Logos. I remember the promises as I kept buying more resources. The sermon "plug-in" was supposed to finished over a year ago... that promise was made to me as I bought the upgrade to the Platinum Library of Logos 4 (parity with the Windows version was to be done by last Summer).
I personally am not too confident that a Lion compatible version will be ready by Lion's launch. I just base that on my past experience and the current lack of an answer to the simple question asked at the very beginning of this thread. I re-ask the question:
Is Logos Beta testing the upcoming "Lion" release from Apple with Logos 4?
I cannot imagine that a Lion version will be available with the retail release because the current Logos betas will not even launch on the third Developer's Preview which rumors have as "very close to GM."
I mean no disrespect to Mr. Mitchell or anyone at Logos, but since you are the "Technical Lead," you should be aware that it doesn't work.
Just a thought... there are many faithful and loyal users who have thousands of dollars worth of resources that we cannot use. Or maybe I should say there are thousands of potential customer's out there who will buy new machines from Apple this Summer. They have been waiting for Lion to purchase. Logos for Mac will be absolutely useless to them. As it is to any of us who upgrade. I love Lion's new features... I hope Logos jumps on board soon and I hope that we are not in for another decade long odyssey of promises.
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Jeffrey S. Robison said:
I am typing this on OS 10.7 DP 3. The latest beta of Logos 4 for Mac (4.30.586) does not run. It will not even open.
Apologies: having looked at many Logos 4 Mac diagnostic logging files, the statement "It will not even open." is both descriptive and uninformative (hopefully easy to replicate crash). Personally would like to see Logos 4.3 Beta 5 diagnostic log files, Mac Beta forum => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/33530/253083.aspx#253083 has an Applescript application to show current diagnostic logging setting along with option to change setting for Logos 4.3 Beta 5 and newer.
Jeffrey S. Robison said:Is Logos Beta testing the upcoming "Lion" release from Apple with Logos 4?
After reading about couple Logos 4 Mac startup crashes on Mac OS X Lion developer previews, wonder if a publicly available Logos 4 Mac version (beta or stable) is usable on a Mac OS X Lion developer preview ?
From David Mitchell's response:
David Mitchell said:Assuming that there are no significant (from our perspectives) changes between the beta and the GM seed, we intend to have a 10.7-compatible version of Logos available before the launch of 10.7. However, it's entirely possible that the final release of 10.7 will contain new incompatibilities with our software. As Apple typically doesn't release the final version to developers long before (sometimes at all before) general availability, we may not have time to address such issues before users install 10.7.
Suspect Logos has Mac OS X Lion developer preview installed, which is implied by "we intend to have a 10.7-compatible version of Logos available before the launch of 10.7"
Edit: Apple Press Release about keynote next week includes Mac OS X Lion => http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/05/31wwdc.html
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Jeffrey S. Robison said:
I personally am not too confident that a Lion compatible version will be ready by Lion's launch.
It is probably best not to draw too many conclusions from the capabilities of a beta product within a beta product...
Jeffrey S. Robison said:Is Logos Beta testing the upcoming "Lion" release from Apple with Logos 4?
Even if they are (which I'd imagine they are), that in itself doesn't guarantee a working product, so this particular question doesn't necessarily help. If the answer is "no, we are not" then that tells us something, but if one dev has installed 10.7 once and tried L4 on it, then they could say, "Yes, we've tested it," and we wouldn't really know where things stand. That said, I'm sure they are working on it.
Jeffrey S. Robison said:I cannot imagine that a Lion version will be available with the retail release because the current Logos betas will not even launch on the third Developer's Preview
This doesn't necessarily mean anything. Lots of code is kept locked away on developer machines before being released with beta or gm versions. I would like to see a Beta version that works with Lion; I've got the developer preview (have had it since the first one) and the main reason I don't use it more is because I can't run Logos. So I wish I had the test version that works with Lion. But Apple is going to tweak code with every build and there is no telling when one of their tweaks will break Logos again.
Will Logos be ready for 10.7 by release day? My *guess* is no, Logos will want to perform final tests and make sure things work right before releasing a version that works on Lion (and, BTW, this version will probably apply to the stable channel as well) and that will take a few days, but I don't expect it will be a long wait, a week at most, since the WWDC begins on June 6 and Logos' normal beta release cycle would have their next release on June 14th. But we shall see!
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I doubt that a version of Logos 4 will be available by next week when Lion is announced. If Logos had a version, they would release now for testing. A couple of thoughts - 1. Accordance works just fine with Lion; 2. I have spent hundreds of dollars on Logos. I offered to test for Logos and heard nothing. Why should I send log files when Logos can do it for themselves?; and 3. The excuse that Apple will change something at the last minute is not a reason for not releasing a alpha or beta version of Logos for Mac. Other companies have done this and their software is working find - I know because I am testing some of them now in advance of Lion being released. The Logos software simply does not work with Lion. Logos, you should address this problem to ensure a seamless transition to Lion.
Folks, you have purchased a product in good faith. You should expect that product to work. Stop making excuses for them and demand results.
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david proctor said:
I doubt that a version of Logos 4 will be available by next week when Lion is announced.
I missed something in my previous comment. Went back and re-read David's comment and caught this:
David Mitchell said:Assuming that there are no significant (from our perspectives) changes between the beta and the GM seed, we intend to have a 10.7-compatible version of Logos available before the launch of 10.7.
My takeaway from this is yes, they are already working on this and perhaps have a version working in the office, just not yet ready for distribution. It really does not surprise me that something like this has not been released for testing, for reasons I've stated before.
David also noted in his comment the possibility of further changes causing additional incompatibilities and in that case a Lion version may not be ready when Lion comes out.
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david proctor said:
Why should I send log files when Logos can do it for themselves?
Potentially have different startup crash on your configuration than Logos development; have read many log files and seen several different startup crashes by a variety of Mac users.
Also wonder if startup crash repeats with Logos 4.3 Beta 6 that was released yesterday ?
Knowing Logos 4 Mac uses Mono, wonder if other Mono applications work on Mac OS X Lion ?
Looking at wiki page => http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mono_%28software%29 noted link to legal concerns about Mono's future (including support contracts) => http://www.infoq.com/news/2011/05/Mono-II
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Looking at wiki page => http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mono_%28software%29 noted link to legal concerns about Mono's future (including support contracts) => http://www.infoq.com/news/2011/05/Mono-II
This is not a great concern. Mono is a free, open-source project (Mono Touch and Mono Android have some non-OSS components, but that would have no bearing on the Mac). Even if no one did any more Mono development, Logos devs could continue to use (and improve) existing Mono libraries.
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Chris Roberts said:
Looking at wiki page => http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mono_%28software%29 noted link to legal concerns about Mono's future (including support contracts) => http://www.infoq.com/news/2011/05/Mono-II
This is not a great concern. Mono is a free, open-source project (Mono Touch and Mono Android have some non-OSS components, but that would have no bearing on the Mac).
Mono (and Logos 4's reliance on it) is always going to be a cause for concern. Great, or not, is debatable, that it is/will be a concern is not.
- Mono is not the same as an open source project like the Apache web server, or many others, which started life free and unencumbered. Mono, on the other hand has this nagging 600 lb gorilla on its back.
- Out of the gate it seems Logos 4 does not work on OS X Lion 10.7. It should not be hard to imagine why. It's built using non-native technologies that, like eggs, are fragile and can, unfortunately, break with new versions of OS X like Lion. Not saying that the Logos developers can't and won't make it work — sure they will. Just saying that there will be more (unavoidable, unwelcome) work for them.
- As for the new chimp on the block Xamarin (sorry, playing on names of Mono/Xamarin) made up of most of the fired Mono developers from Novell. "Xamarin’s focus is on commercial .NET offerings for iOS and Android" as in "we want to eat". The silence on the general open source Mono project is not encouraging.
- Microsoft's so-called 'Community Promise' only applies to "programs written in the C# programming language" and "the Common Language Infrastructure (CLI)". Hmmm — this does not fully cover all aspects of Microsoft's proprietary technology called .NET and it is not clear whether .NET 4 is covered at all. Currently Logos 4 Win/Mac is still to move up to .NET 4.
- Novell had sold out to Microsoft (for a tidy sum which ultimately still did not save it), now Attachmate has sold out Mono. My concern is will Microsoft fully support and ensure that .NET will work with Mono moving forward.
Chris Roberts said:Even if no one did any more Mono development, Logos devs could continue to use (and improve) existing Mono libraries.
You will forgive me if I have some concern on that. I am not doubting the skill and dedication of the Logos developers, just that it would be a very unwelcome (and unrealistic) burden for Logos to have to add to an existing heavy workload. And it does not change the fact that they would still be dependent on a capricious and self-serving Microsoft.
"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein
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This product does not work well now, it is slow, buggy, has feature issues and is inconsistent.
It is consistent in using more Ram than any other program I own ( and many are much larger and more complicated ).
It does not work well across Mac products, it is inconsistent from machine to machine.
These are just facts, thats all.
If it does not work now, I find it hard to believe it is going to work well with Lion when it is released or even shortly after.
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I haven't heard of one compelling Lion feature. Interfaces are nice, but Snow Leopard is still the one to beat and unless you have a late model Mac, there's little reason to bother with Lion.
I still have some Rosetta apps which I don't care to upgrade right now either since they work and I don't want to tack another $100+ onto a Lion size move.
The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter
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Fr. Charles R. Matheny said:
This product does not work well now, it is slow, buggy, has feature issues and is inconsistent.
It is consistent in using more Ram than any other program I own ( and many are much larger and more complicated ).
It does not work well across Mac products, it is inconsistent from machine to machine.
These are just facts, thats all.
If it does not work now, I find it hard to believe it is going to work well with Lion when it is released or even shortly after.
I will admit Logos is a ram hungry program, but I have no real problems with Logos for mac, I am in the beta update program so I often am using buggy Logos software (and often have bug fixes not in the current stable release). But I find it an acceptable program to use... I hope that Logos will be Lion Compatible very soon and I am willing to hold off on updating till it is.
-Dan
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Michael Ballai said:
I haven't heard of one compelling Lion feature. Interfaces are nice, but Snow Leopard is still the one to beat and unless you have a late model Mac, there's little reason to bother with Lion.
Oh I don't know, on the Lion page http://www.apple.com/macosx/lion/ there are some quite attractive enhancements including the fact that OS X server is now included at no charge in Lion. For any workgroup, including a home network, having that will be a big plus.
Put that together with a Mac Mini (which when refreshed should have a Thunderbolt connection) and you have a very functional workgroup server setup - at a fraction of a fraction of the cost of an equivalent Windows workgroup (Active Directory) server setup.
Anyway, suffice to say, pretty sure Lion will be very popular [;)]
"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein
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Have been fiddling with VMWare Fusion on 10.7. Mostly works, but have run into a few annoying problems. Went to the VMWare forums and was interested in the linked thread. Sounded like a near duplicate of certain conversations here!
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it does not even properly run now, what makes you guys think it be any better or worse under lion ?
the mac version must be the most frustrating program i ever bought... just not getting any better for me anyways, and i am too tired to try to fix it myself. i should not have to tweak or spend hours trying to make it run or load faster, but that is just the reality of it....
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Mac OS X Lion coming in July => http://www.apple.com/macosx/ $ 29.99 upgrade via Mac App Store
Mac OS X Lion server also in July => http://www.apple.com/macosx/server/ for $ 49.99 add-on to Lion via Mac App Store, much less than previous Snow Leopard Server ($ 499.00 for unlimited users).
Noticed Mac OS X 10.6.6 (Snow Leopard) requirement for Lion purchase.
By the way, WWDC keynote mentioned 54,000,000 active Mac users worldwide.
Edit: Wonder when Logos 4 Mac will support Full Screen and Smart Zoom features in Mac OS X Lion ?
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Some great news, fellows. See the following screenshot from Logos 4.3 Beta 7 running under the 10.7 developer preview 4:
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Chris -
Is it whimpering, purring or roaring? [:)]
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
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It could be just a yeti or sasquatch sighting [:)]
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Larry -
That was a "Good" one... [:D]
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Does it work on DP 4 without any "hoops"? Are there libs that have to be manually loaded or a launch script or a hack required? If it is "out of box" compatible, that is quite a step. Exciting stuff. May have to play on my dev machine today.
One last question, is working because of DP 4 or because of L4 beta 7?
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Worked for me out of the box.
Jeffrey S. Robison said:One last question, is working because of DP 4 or because of L4 beta 7?
Wondered that myself, but couldn't say. I would guess it's because of work on Logos' end; Apple has made many API changes with 10.7 and Logos is not the only developer who has had to address incompatibilities and it seems more likely that 4.3 b7 addresses the incompatibilities than 10.7 dp4 undoes the changes that caused Logos to crash.
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Chris Roberts said:
Worked for me out of the box.
Jeffrey S. Robison said:One last question, is working because of DP 4 or because of L4 beta 7?
Wondered that myself, but couldn't say. I would guess it's because of work on Logos' end; Apple has made many API changes with 10.7 and Logos is not the only developer who has had to address incompatibilities and it seems more likely that 4.3 b7 addresses the incompatibilities than 10.7 dp4 undoes the changes that caused Logos to crash.
Thanks Chris for your fast reply. I am updating my dev box to dp 4 right now, excited to see L4 run.
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Glad to see a positive report. Sounds like 4.3 will be up for Lion.
The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter
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Jeffrey S. Robison said:
One last question, is working because of DP 4 or because of L4 beta 7?
It's because of beta 7. You may still encounter a couple of visual glitches running on Lion (please report them as you find them), but there's nothing terribly scary about the migration to Lion that we've discovered, yet. If 4.3 is not complete by the time Lion is released, there will be a service release for 4.2b.
David Mitchell
Development Lead
Faithlife0 -
David Mitchell said:
If 4.3 is not complete by the time Lion is released, there will be a service release for 4.2b.
David,
Thanks for that. I am planning to move to Lion when it is released. Glad to know that Logos 4 Mac will run.
Appreciate all your work.
Every blessing
Alan
iMac Retina 5K, 27": 3.6GHz 8-Core Intel Core i9; 16GB RAM;MacOS 10.15.5; 1TB SSD; Logos 8
MacBook Air 13.3": 1.8GHz; 4GB RAM; MacOS 10.13.6; 256GB SSD; Logos 8
iPad Pro 32GB WiFi iOS 13.5.1
iPhone 8+ 64GB iOS 13.5.1
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Mr. Mitchell,
As you have probably heard, IOS5 is also being released in the next few months. Will Logos also work on this platform (iPhone and iPad)? Have you all tested this and are there any problems noted?
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Matthew -
You are asking a great question. It would be best, however, to post a new thread in the iPhone/iPad forum. Otherwise your question is apt to get lost in the shuffle.
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
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Matthew Snyder said:
Mr. Mitchell,
As you have probably heard, IOS5 is also being released in the next few months. Will Logos also work on this platform (iPhone and iPad)? Have you all tested this and are there any problems noted?
Welcome [:D]
Logos developers for iOS read threads => iPhone/iPad forum, hence posted iOS 5 ?
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Matthew Snyder said:
As you have probably heard, IOS5 is also being released in the next few months. Will Logos also work on this platform (iPhone and iPad)? Have you all tested this and are there any problems noted?
Worked for me.
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I have just downloaded and installed Lion.
Logos opens but stops responding.
I'm not surprised, but disappointed.
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Tim what version of Logos are you running... It better be the latest Beta!!!! [;)]
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After several false starts and "not respondings" it is running. I'm sure there will be a bug or two over the next few weeks.
Thanks Paul!
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Downloaded and installed LION this morning...no issues.
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15" rMBP 2.6 GHz i7 | 16 GB RAM | 1.0 TB Flash Drive | OS X 10.12.3 | Logos 7.0 (7.3.0.0062)
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Downloaded and installed. No problems in using Logos so far.
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To the people who have installed Lion.... is L4 still ok for you?
Also..... I had the OS before Snow Leopard (upgraded to SL) if I put Lion on and someday want to reinstall, I just use the Lion recovery right?
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I am not able to get it to work for me... pretty frustrated with the software as a whole. I use a lot of freeware, but this software runs worst than any other program on my Mac, crashes more than any other software I run and often runs slower than ram heavy software like Adobe Photoshop.
I installed Lion OS and Logos 4 is the only software that did not work with the New operating system. At first it would not even open and then finally it opened, but now it just sits there saying "Signing In" and it will do that for hours.
I'm really frustrated with the software about to head into Bible College next semester and want to have a solid software.Any suggestions on how I can get the program working?
Then also does anyone know of a timeline they may have until a version comes out that REALLY WORKS, not something that just gets the job done, but something that works as well as most other software?
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Brandon Maddux said:
I am not able to get it to work for me... pretty frustrated with the software as a whole. I use a lot of freeware, but this software runs worst than any other program on my Mac, crashes more than any other software I run and often runs slower than ram heavy software like Adobe Photoshop.
I installed Lion OS and Logos 4 is the only software that did not work with the New operating system. At first it would not even open and then finally it opened, but now it just sits there saying "Signing In" and it will do that for hours.
I'm really frustrated with the software about to head into Bible College next semester and want to have a solid software.Any suggestions on how I can get the program working?
Then also does anyone know of a timeline they may have until a version comes out that REALLY WORKS, not something that just gets the job done, but something that works as well as most other software?
Well 4.3 RC1 crashes quite often on me... but it is working not too bad... I would hope a stable version of 4.3 should be available soon.
-Dan
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Mike Tourangeau said:
To the people who have installed Lion.... is L4 still ok for you?
Also..... I had the OS before Snow Leopard (upgraded to SL) if I put Lion on and someday want to reinstall, I just use the Lion recovery right?
I'm not having any issues with Lion. Since upgrading, my MBP boots faster and it's Geekbench scores have improved. Logos 4.2b SR-2 has been solid on Lion, and its performance continues to be very good, as it was on Snow Leopard. There have been several reported issues of 4.3 RC-1 with loading saved layouts (my understanding is this will be corrected with RC-2); nevertheless, 4.3 RC-1 runs noticeably better (running from an external clone drive) than 4.2b SR-2 on my internal drive.
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15" rMBP 2.6 GHz i7 | 16 GB RAM | 1.0 TB Flash Drive | OS X 10.12.3 | Logos 7.0 (7.3.0.0062)
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