Announcing a new blog for Catholic users of Logos

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/257895#Comment_257895

Thank you.

Hapax Legomena

I look forward to visiting often.

john joyce

Hi Harbey

This is the best thing I have read on the forums in a long time.

I hope Logos hire you as a consultant. They have someone listed as in charge of Catholic Resources, I don't know what they have been doing the last few years!

Promising start and it will only be good if we can band together. It may help if we as a large (I hope) group help Logos improve our resources.

John

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/258028#Comment_258028

It may help if we as a large (I hope) group help Logos improve our resources.

As one who has been pushing Logos in this direction for years, I'd like to point out that Logos has made some very strong moves in the direction of liturgical churches and broader canons.

Logos 4 with its verse mapping is the first version that actually treats the Anglican, Lutheran, Catholic, Greek Orthodox, Slavic Orthodox ... canons as scripture
Lectionaries have been improved to handle the sanctoral cycle and allow access of the readings for liturgical days not occurring in current annual calendar
While the resources currently available is far from everything I want it is getting to be as much as I can afford ... which I think means Catholic resources are now part of their standard strategy rather than an afterthought
In terms of Logos products and financial welfare, I think that rather than thinking "Catholic" we need to work together as Catholic-Anglican-Lutheran-Orthodox and to an extent Jewish group. There are many resources that easily spread across many of us that are of less interest to the Evangelical-Pentecostal group [Note there are many other nodes along the continuum]. And as liturgical churches with a strong sense of history we have much in common. We can take advantage of the Lutheran-Logos connections as a point from which to expand.
Patristics is becoming an area around which many Logos users groups can rally. Take advantage of it.

While were are at it, can I get everyone to purchase (and push) The Reading and Preaching of the Scriptures in the Worship of the Christian Church (7 Vols.)

It really is of Catholic interest (and Anglican, Lutheran, Methodist ...)[:D]

john joyce

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/258032#Comment_258032

Sure it's slowly getting a little better. Without wishing to offend anyone it's kind of depressing having relatively little of essential material in the base packages.

My 3 main gripes

1. Catechism

2. Decent commentary

3. NJB only available to North Americans.

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/258036#Comment_258036

Hi John

1. Catechism

Trying to understand more of what you are looking for here.

I note that the "Catholic Theology and Dogma Collection" (http://www.logos.com/product/5177/catholic-theology-and-dogma-collection) contains the Catechism of the Council of Trent. (I appreciate this is an expensive way of getting just one volume).

Are there a set of Catechisms you are looking for or is there a specific one / set which are most required?

Thanks, Graham

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/258037#Comment_258037

Are there a set of Catechisms you are looking for or is there a specific one / set which are most required?

What a number of people have requested is the current Catechism - Catechism of the Catholic Church. The Catechism of the Council of Trent is of historical interest but it's two Catechisms back..

To focus on the negatives:

several translations which have editions including the deuterocanonical books appear only with the North American Protestant canon
not all translations used in English-language lectionaries are available in Logos (so watch where you live)
most of the commentaries and ministerial material in the base packages is of little interest or use
tools like Persons/Places/Things cover only the short canon
the LCV has yet to add the common Catholic, Orthodox and Jewish terms

john joyce

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/258038#Comment_258038

sorry - yes I meant CCC

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/258038#Comment_258038

Thanks MJ and John

Very helpful

Graham

NB.Mick

Harbey,

thanks a lot for your blog. Even though I'm not a Roman Catholic (but we all are small c catholics, aren't we?), I like it to have resources from many areas of christianity in Logos and also in my Logos library.

I just wanted to write a first comment on your nice blog entry from Saturday regarding the Pope Benedict collection, but somehow I don't have any of the "profiles" your bloig requires for commenting. Thus, since it is about a Logos resource where I am in the prebub contract, I think it may be a good idea to ask you here: could you clarify the sentence that you are sad for "not included introduction to christianity" in light of the "* introduction to christianity [Rev Ed]" in the package content list? Are these two editions very different in Ignatius books? I understand the German revised version of "Einführung in das Christentum" which I have in paper to be a commentary on the Credo from the late 1960's, the so-called revision just being an additional foreword from 2000.

Thank you
NewbieMick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/258044#Comment_258044

I have requested/been interested in the Jerome Biblical Commentary, the new one published around 1990. I have the old one that used to be sold with Logos, but that's been outdated for quite some time, there is so much new material, new discourses etc. in the latest version.

M.J., BradN and John,

Thanks for your kind words.

"Viva Cristo Rey!!"

Deacon Harbey Santiago

Archdiocese of Baltimore

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/258032#Comment_258032

It may help if we as a large (I hope) group help Logos improve our resources.

In terms of Logos products and financial welfare, I think that rather than thinking "Catholic" we need to work together as Catholic-Anglican-Lutheran-Orthodox and to an extent Jewish group. There are many resources that easily spread across many of us that are of less interest to the Evangelical-Pentecostal group [Note there are many other nodes along the continuum]. And as liturgical churches with a strong sense of history we have much in common. We can take advantage of the Lutheran-Logos connections as a point from which to expand.

Hi M.J.,

It is amazing the things you have to take into consideration when creating a blog. I agonized over thr name of the blog. here are some other candidates:

"Liturgical Logos User"

"Non-Protestant Logos User"

"Ecumenical Logos User"

"Logos for the non-Protestant"

At the end of the day "Catholic Logos User" was the best I could do. At the end of the day I had to make a distinction. Since my no.1 desire is for more Catholics to use Logos I went for the strong "Latin Rite" flavor. However, I hope the Logos "catholic" (small "c") users community also benefit from these efforts. I intend to look and list not only Catholic works but other works that will be of interest for most Liturgical traditions and not just my own.

"Viva Cristo Rey!!"

Deacon Harbey Santiago

Archdiocese of Baltimore

Dan Pritchett

Talk about amazing timing... today was the first day on the job for our brand-new, full-time Catholic Product Manager Andrew Jones!

Andrew is just getting his office set up, but should be dropping by this thread soon to introduce himself directly. I had lunch with Andrew today and can tell you that you have a serious, scholarly, and passionate advocate for the Catholic market in him. I won't steal any more of his thunder, I just wanted you to know we are really getting serious about the Catholic market now!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/258044#Comment_258044

Harbey,

thanks a lot for your blog. Even though I'm not a Roman Catholic (but we all are small c catholics, aren't we?), I like it to have resources from many areas of christianity in Logos and also in my Logos library.

I just wanted to write a first comment on your nice blog entry from Saturday regarding the Pope Benedict collection, but somehow I don't have any of the "profiles" your bloig requires for commenting. Thus, since it is about a Logos resource where I am in the prebub contract, I think it may be a good idea to ask you here: could you clarify the sentence that you are sad for "not included introduction to christianity" in light of the "* introduction to christianity [Rev Ed]" in the package content list? Are these two editions very different in Ignatius books? I understand the German revised version of "Einführung in das Christentum" which I have in paper to be a commentary on the Credo from the late 1960's, the so-called revision just being an additional foreword from 2000.

Thank you
NewbieMick

Hi Mick,

Yes, you need a gmail account to comment in the blog. Not my idea but Google's. I'll check to see if there is a way to provide comments without these restrictions. Also... Thanks for catching my mistake. I meant to say "The Apostles", how did I ended with Intro to Xtianity is beyond me. I updated the post.

"Viva Cristo Rey!!"

Deacon Harbey Santiago

Archdiocese of Baltimore

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/258314#Comment_258314

Talk about amazing timing... today was the first day on the job for our brand-new, full-time Catholic Product Manager Andrew Jones!

Andrew is just getting his office set up, but should be dropping by this thread soon to introduce himself directly. I had lunch with Andrew today and can tell you that you have a serious, scholarly, and passionate advocate for the Catholic market in him. I won't steal any more of his thunder, I just wanted you to know we are really getting serious about the Catholic market now!

Hi Dan,

Yes... the Holy Spirit is funny that way.[:D] One day after Pentecost!! I look forward to meet Andrew in the forums and to work with Him and anyone else interested in helping in this project.

"Viva Cristo Rey!!"

Deacon Harbey Santiago

Archdiocese of Baltimore

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/258223#Comment_258223

I have requested/been interested in the Jerome Biblical Commentary, the new one published around 1990. I have the old one that used to be sold with Logos, but that's been outdated for quite some time, there is so much new material, new discourses etc. in the latest version.

Same here! I periodically search for the old version for Logos. You never know when an old copy is found in the back room of a used book store!

"Viva Cristo Rey!!"

Deacon Harbey Santiago

Archdiocese of Baltimore

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/258318#Comment_258318

I have requested/been interested in the Jerome Biblical Commentary, the new one published around 1990. I have the old one that used to be sold with Logos, but that's been outdated for quite some time, there is so much new material, new discourses etc. in the latest version.

Same here! I periodically search for the old version for Logos. You never know when an old copy is found in the back room of a used book store!

"Viva Cristo Rey!!"

Deacon Harbey Santiago

Archdiocese of Baltimore

I was blessed to have a user sell it to me on the old Newsgroup forums. Maybe if you advertise your interest someone will respond.

I have the new one in Hard Copy, IMHO it is much more comprehensive and the scholarship is better as well. You are a Deacon in Baltimore, the new JBC is recommended commentary at St. Mary's Seminary and with good reason IMHO!.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/258314#Comment_258314

Talk about amazing timing... today was the first day on the job for our brand-new, full-time Catholic Product Manager Andrew Jones!

Andrew is just getting his office set up, but should be dropping by this thread soon to introduce himself directly. I had lunch with Andrew today and can tell you that you have a serious, scholarly, and passionate advocate for the Catholic market in him. I won't steal any more of his thunder, I just wanted you to know we are really getting serious about the Catholic market now!

This is excellent news, thanks Dan!

NB.Mick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/258316#Comment_258316

I meant to say "The Apostles", how did I ended with Intro to Xtianity is beyond me. I updated the post.

Thanks a lot. I think the paper version of "the Apostles" sits on my Amazon wishlist for some time now (just checked: yes, really long...), maybe time to reconsider.

Mick

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/258321#Comment_258321

As a Protestant [;)] I'm also wanting the CCC in logos and If I'm not mistaken...something like "all of the councils" in Logos format...not sure if I stated that correctly or not.

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/258408#Comment_258408

Now that I've "broken the ice" I have a question for any Catholic here...

I see that the CCC IS available in PDF format...and now that PBB's are in beta...is anyone going to create the CCC in PBB format?

And a second follow on question...is the CCC the "hand book" for how to answer basic everyday questions such as "contraception" and such? In other words...what document tells a Catholic what they need to know about everyday matters....

Does that make any sense? I'm trying to get a handle on the hierarchy of documents.

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/258417#Comment_258417

OK, I'm not formally Catholic, but at least I'm awake this time of the day, so I'll give it a try: [:)]

I see that the CCC IS available in PDF format...and now that PBB's are in beta...is anyone going to create the CCC in PBB format?

It may be available for free on the web, but presumably it's still under copyright, so unless that "anyone" gets permission from the copyright holders (original Latin text + English translation), he could only do it for his own use.

is the CCC the "hand book" for how to answer basic everyday questions such as "contraception" and such? In other words...what document tells a Catholic what they need to know about everyday matters....

I'd say that, yes, that sounds like a pretty decent description of what the CCC is. However:

a) in spite of its size it's fairly short on concrete moral issues like contraception, so if you want more you'd have to look for something more specialized. But it's a good starting point.

b) it's certainly authoritative, but it's a teaching tool, not in itself an infallible statement. It can (and presumably will) be added to, revised and eventually replaced. So if by

I'm trying to get a handle on the hierarchy of documents.

you mean "is it the most authoritative document?", then, no, that would be the Bible, the Creeds, the decrees of the Ecumenical Councils, and the (extremely few) infallible declarations of popes (all of which are, of course, frequently quoted in the Catechism). But if you mean "is it the best place to go to first, the best place to get an overview of what the present day Catholic Church believes and teaches?" then I'd generally say yes.

Disclaimer: this is a "Swedish" answer. I'm not American, and I don't know exactly how the CCC is used in America. There are places where lay people mainly read simple expositions of the CCC instead of the CCC itself, and there seem to be bishops, even in highly literate countries, that encourage that.

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/258032#Comment_258032

As one who has been pushing Logos in this direction for years, I'd like to point out that Logos has made some very strong moves in the direction of liturgical churches and broader canons.

Logos 4 with its verse mapping is the first version that actually treats the Anglican, Lutheran, Catholic, Greek Orthodox, Slavic Orthodox ... canons as scripture

Lectionaries have been improved to handle the sanctoral cycle and allow access of the readings for liturgical days not occurring in current annual calendar

While the resources currently available is far from everything I want it is getting to be as much as I can afford ... which I think means Catholic resources are now part of their standard strategy rather than an afterthought

In terms of Logos products and financial welfare, I think that rather than thinking "Catholic" we need to work together as Catholic-Anglican-Lutheran-Orthodox and to an extent Jewish group. There are many resources that easily spread across many of us that are of less interest to the Evangelical-Pentecostal group [Note there are many other nodes along the continuum]. And as liturgical churches with a strong sense of history we have much in common. We can take advantage of the Lutheran-Logos connections as a point from which to expand.

Patristics is becoming an area around which many Logos users groups can rally. Take advantage of it.

While were are at it, can I get everyone to purchase (and push) The Reading and Preaching of the Scriptures in the Worship of the Christian Church (7 Vols.)

It really is of Catholic interest (and Anglican, Lutheran, Methodist ...)

Well said, MJ. A hat tip.

Andrew Jones

Hello everyone! My name is Andrew Jones and I'm the new Catholic Products Manager here at Logos. Deacon Santiago, thanks for getting a Catholic users' blog up and running-- and on the very day before my start here, providential I should say. My ambition is to serve the Church by bringing the power of Logos software more fully into the service of her mission, and am very excited about working with all my fellow Catholics out there toward that end. Logos is serious about providing our Catholic users with the works they need. We are actively acquiring new titles, including many of those obviously lacking, such as the Catechism and the papal encyclicals, and are planning Catholic oriented packages. This is going to be great! Please keep the suggestions and comments coming and tell your friends: Logos is on the Catholic scene! Ad majorem Dei gloriam!

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/258507#Comment_258507

Logos is serious about providing our Catholic users with the works they need. We are actively acquiring new titles, including many of those obviously lacking, such as the Catechism and the papal encyclicals

Hey, don't forget that we non-Catholics will be interested in a good deal of this as well. [H]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/258417#Comment_258417

is the CCC the "hand book" for how to answer basic everyday questions such as "contraception" and such? In other words...what document tells a Catholic what they need to know about everyday matters....

Specific answers to these questions requires taking a current issue and tying it to fundamental moral and ethical teachings to come up with an answer. Those fundamental teachings are in the CCC. To get specific answers that tie to those readings, an Apologetics book may be more helpful. Handbook of Christian Apologetics by Peter Kreeft (in Logos) as an example,may be some help.

As an example of this distinction and without getting into specifics to violate forum guidelines, the Catholic teaching on contraception comes from scripture that teaches God's gift of creation, love and unity of man and woman, what "gift" is in a love relationship, primacy of God's will, and dignity of human life. These principles are contained in the CCC and tied to scripture, papal encyclicals, and council documents. How to tie them together is more likely an apologetics issue, or a more advanced papal/council teaching (like "Theology of the Body" by Pope John Paul II). The rationale is, if one really studies and discerns the moral and ethical principals and teachings that the Catholic Church believes came from God, then with reasonable prayer and discernment they will apply the principles in their own life properly; whether they contemplate taking grandma off the respirator, using in-vitro fertilization, or going off to war. So many situations demanding a discerning moral or ethical principal to decide on a course of action, it would be impossible to handle them all.

There are also books that further hash this out in principles that build on the CCC. The Catholic Church/bishops (forget which group) have published books on Catholic Social teaching, and Catholic Moral and Ethical teaching. The Social Teaching book for example would be a good one to help someone understand what God and the Bible has to say about someone who hoards their property and is unwilling to help those who are disadvantaged, in a simplistic example. Principles like "An intrinsically evil act is never justified no matter how good the end result is" and "An intrinsically evil act that is an unintended consequence of a good act performed for a good end is acceptable" are explained. Yet all of these tie back to scripture, encyclicals, councils, through teachings in the CCC.

As a note, these principles of social teaching, fundamentally based out of love and the dignity and rights of all human beings, are the basis for Catholic Church teaching on social issues that many erroneously take to be a political stance, which is incorrect. The Principle of subsidiarity is the basis of some of the objections to the US health care policy (federal government making decisions that lower groups, communities and states, are more qualified to make); Solidarity, our commitment to the Common good, is a reason that decisions should not just be made on the basis of whether they are of benefit to an individual or group without regard to society's benefit. In other words, if everything was only done with regard to the benefit to a person or group the laws would largely be chaotic and special interest-oriented, and many disadvantaged groups would suffer. All based on principles in the CCC.

I am not around my (paper) bookshelf so I can't cite the exact names of these books, but I can if someone is interested once I come back from out of town.

Hapax Legomena

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/258507#Comment_258507

. . . We are actively acquiring new titles, including many of those obviously lacking, such as the Catechism and the papal encyclicals, and are planning Catholic oriented packages. . . .

Oh great, now I get to spend even more money on Logos![:'(][:)]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/258437#Comment_258437

It may be available for free on the web, but presumably it's still under copyright, so unless that "anyone" gets permission from the copyright holders (original Latin text + English translation), he could only do it for his own use.

Absolutely correct

In other words...what document tells a Catholic what they need to know about everyday matters....

On major issues there are frequently documents published by the Vatican (offices or Pope) and by local bishop's groups. There are frequently conflicting pieces of advice from which one needs to form one's own conscience.

There are places where lay people mainly read simple expositions of the CCC instead of the CCC itself, and there seem to be bishops, even in highly literate countries, that encourage that.

Quite true. The audience for which the CCC was written was those involved in catechesis as teachers, managers, writers. There are unofficial slim volumes that are intended for preachers and bible study groups that give appropriate sequences for going through the CCC within a liturgical year ... etc. There are offshoots like the recently released, official youth catechism etc. etc. etc.

I'm trying to get a handle on the hierarchy of documents.

Note: I was sure that Ott had a list of documents and their relative authority but I can't find it in my new electronic addition. However, the quotation below will give you a sense of the answer:

§ 8. The Theological Grades of Certainty

1. The highest degree of certainty appertains to the immediately revealed truths. The belief due to them is based on the authority of God Revealing (fides divina), and if the Church, through its teaching, vouches for the fact that a truth is contained in Revelation, one’s certainty is then also based on the authority of the Infallible Teaching Authority of the Church (fides catholica). If Truths are defined by a solemn judgment of faith (definition) of the Pope or of a General Council, they are “de fide definita.”

2. Catholic truths or Church doctrines, on which the infallible Teaching Authority of the Church has finally decided, are to be accepted with a faith which is based on the sole authority of the Church (fides ecclesiastica). These truths are as infallibly certain as dogmas proper.

3. A Teaching proximate to Faith (sententia fidei proxima) is a doctrine, which is regarded by theologians generally as a truth of Revelation, but which has not yet been finally promulgated as such by the Church.

4. A Teaching pertaining to the Faith, i.e., theologically certain (sententia ad fidem pertinens, i.e., theologice certa) is a doctrine, on which the Teaching Authority of the Church has not yet finally pronounced, but whose truth is guaranteed by its intrinsic connection with the doctrine of revelation (theological conclusions).

5. Common Teaching (sententia communis) is doctrine, which in itself belongs to the field of the free opinions, but which is accepted by theologians generally.

6. Theological opinions of lesser grades of certainty are called probable, more probable, well-founded (sententia probabilis, probabilior, bene fundata). Those which are regarded as being in agreement with the consciousness of Faith of the Church are called pious opinions (sententia pia). The least degree of certainty is possessed by the tolerated opinion (opinio tolerata), which is only weakly founded, but which is tolerated by the Church.

With regard to the doctrinal teaching of the Church it must be well noted that not all the assertions of the Teaching Authority of the Church on questions of Faith and morals are infallible and consequently irrevocable. Only those are infallible which emanate from General Councils representing the whole episcopate, and the Papal Decisions Ex Cathedra (cf. D 1839). The ordinary and usual form of the Papal teaching activity is not infallible. Further, the decisions of the Roman Congregations (Holy Office, Bible Commission) are not infallible. Nevertheless normally they are to be accepted with an inner assent which is based on the high supernatural authority of the Holy See (assensus internus supernaturalis, assensus religiosus). The so-called “silentium obsequiosum,” that is “reverent silence,” does not generally suffice. By way of exception, the obligation of inner agreement may cease if a competent expert, after a renewed scientific investigation of all grounds, arrives at the positive conviction that the decision rests on an error.

Ludwig Ott, Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, 9–10 (St. Louis: B. Herder Book Company, 1957).

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/258684#Comment_258684

Thank you so much everyone...that helps a lot!

Much appreciated!!!

Damian McGrath

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/258612#Comment_258612

The Catholic Church/bishops (forget which group) have published books on Catholic Social teaching, and Catholic Moral and Ethical teaching.

This would be the Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church issued by the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace. Another worthy title to be added to our Logos Library.

Damian McGrath

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/258684#Comment_258684

The audience for which the CCC was written was those involved in catechesis as teachers, managers, writers.

Yes and no. It is worth reading the Apostolic Constitution Fidei Depositum: it was developed to allow local Episcopal Conferences to develop local catechisms (and catechetical materials). But, it was also written for every catholic who wants to deepen their faith and for every individual who wants to know what the Catholic Church believes.

Specifically, it is important to note that it was not promulgated only to brother bishops and patriarchs but to the whole people of God.

Michael Gaskin

I just purchased Logos on Friday and so far I'm impressed with its functionality. I too share the concern that there is a lack of Catholic material... What would be grand is the ability to import into the software....The CCC, PBC documents, and encyclicals are all available for free on the Internet. Maybe there is a way and I've just not figured it out yet.........

I just "followed" your blog, great work. Converted two years ago and I just scratching the surface of its enormous teachings.....

One more things, has anyone purchased Collegeville Catholic Reference Library: Full Edition, Version 3? Any good?

Also, I see Vatican II documents, but not all of the working documents. Need to purchase for school, but would like to have online in Logos if possible.

Take Care!

- Michael