Slow

I have been really testing this hoping the final releases would really improve over the betas. But for me this program is still very slow. Am I alone? I've gotten used to the interface and am dealing with the few things I don't like and patiently waiting for the tools I miss. But speed is still a real issue in the overall performance of Logos 4.

I have an AMD Athlon X2 with Win7 and 2 GB of Ram on this pc.

My laptop is a Core 2 Due with 4 GB of Ram and Win 7.

My home desktop is a quad core with 8 GB of ram on Win7.

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Comments

Harry Hahne

I absolutely agree. The overall feel is quite sluggish.

spitzerpl

Kevin. I can agree with you here. I wish things were more instantly responsive.

George Allakhverdyan

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/26023#Comment_26023

Kevin. I can agree with you here. I wish things were more instantly responsive.

This is definitely on the priority list, it's just not fully optimized yet.

spitzerpl

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/26033#Comment_26033

This is definitely on the priority list, it's just not fully optimized yet.

great to hear. Thanks George.

Andrew Hughes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/26033#Comment_26033

I'd have to agree as well. I find some of the simplest tasks have an odd delay. If I'm switch between tabs there is quite often a couple second delay while it thinks... this can be annoying. I'd have to say I love almost everything about L4, but would agree that the experience would improve considerably with a more instantly responsive experience.

Greg Gray

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/26034#Comment_26034

Try disabling resident shield on your antivirus program (if you have one) for your Libronix directory. It made a difference for some things for me - still slow, but a faster shade of slow:-)

Igor Swiderski

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/26042#Comment_26042

Yep. Works a little faster without resident shield. Thanks Greg!

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/168928#Comment_168928

Yep. Works a little faster without resident shield. Thanks Greg!

I hope you didn't disable Resident Shield as opposed to telling Shield to ignore certain folders!?

Rick Harrell

Logos 4 is the slowest program on both my laptop and desktop - far slower than any of Adobe CS4 stuff (photoshop, flash, illustrator etc.) that used to hold that record on my machine.

Deborah Mickens

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/169338#Comment_169338

Logos 4 is the slowest program on both my laptop and desktop - far slower than any of Adobe CS4 stuff (photoshop, flash, illustrator etc.) that used to hold that record on my machine.

Frederick,

Logos 4 is designed for newer computers (within approximately the last year). We do have a list of system specs listed on our website that are the best recommendations for running Logos 4 and I listed those below.

Core 2 Duo 2 GHz
3GB+ RAM
Windows Vista or Windows 7
DVD drive
1280X1024 display
512MB DirectX10 graphics device with WDDM 1.0 or higher driver
20 GB hard drive space on local drive (May require additional space
depending on your library).
Broadband internet connection

If your computer does not have these specs associated with it, Logos 4 will run slower. Another thing that you want to look for is to see if the software is still indexing. If the indexing process is still in progress, it will run slower until it is complete. If you need more information about indexing, it can be found here. If your computer is up to date with the specs listed above and indexing has completed, the best thing to do would be to upload logs from your computer. For steps for how to get Logos 4 logs, click here and for steps for how to upload the logs to this forum, click here.

If you do have any other questions, reply to this forum post.

Lester Busald

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/169364#Comment_169364

Deborah, my laptop has

Core 2 Duo 2 GHz, 3 GB Ram, Windows Vista home premium, DVD drive, 1280X1024 display.

Not sure of the 512 MB Dirext X10 graphics

I have 127 GB free hard drive left, running Hi speed cable internet

And running Logos 4 is slow, very slow when writing notes. It has about 3 or 4 second delays when changing layouts.

Les

Pastor Michael Huffman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/169464#Comment_169464

Try changing your preferences to make yourself the administrator for Logos. Also, go to program settings and turn internet off. This helped greatly on mine.

SteveF

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/169464#Comment_169464

It has about 3 or 4 second delays when changing layouts.

Les, you have a machine that is quite adequate, but the video capability might be a sore point. Many here have suggested that GB is helpful.

You can see from my signature what I am running.

On this machine it also takes about 3-4 seconds to change layouts. I assume this is due to the WPF graphics presentation?

I have also made sure that Logos is not part of "resident shield."

Deborah Mickens

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/169464#Comment_169464

Deborah, my laptop has

Core 2 Duo 2 GHz, 3 GB Ram, Windows Vista home premium, DVD drive, 1280X1024 display.

Not sure of the 512 MB Dirext X10 graphics

I have 127 GB free hard drive left, running Hi speed cable internet

And running Logos 4 is slow, very slow when writing notes. It has about 3 or 4 second delays when changing layouts.

Les

Les,

The video card does make a difference as the speed of the video card can cause Logos 4 to run faster or slower. To determine the speed of your video card, click on your Start button and in the "Start Search" box, type "dxdiag" (without the quotes) and at the top of the window, under Programs, you should see either "DirectX Diagnostic Tool" or "dxdiag". Click on and a new windows should appear. In this window, you will see some tabs across the top of the screen. Click on "Display" and under "Device", look for "Total Memory" or "Approx. Total Memory". Next to that, you will see a number, if that is below the recommended 512MB, then Logos 4 will run slower.

Here are some links to other forum posts that talk about the video card:

http://community.logos.com/forums/t/16138.aspx
http://community.logos.com/forums/t/6200.aspx
http://community.logos.com/forums/t/8763.aspx

Carey G. Pearson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/169501#Comment_169501

to run as 'administrator' really helped my use of L4!

Thanks Michael

Chris Dixon

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/170081#Comment_170081

I have Logos on a high-end desktop machine (Core i7-920 processor, ATI Radeon HD 4850 graphics card, 6 GB of tri-channel RAM, newly installed Windows 7 64 bit, and 20 megabit fiber internet connection). It still runs very slowly. It takes a LONG time to start up, and clicking on the home button causes another long delay. I've cut way back on the number of open windows in my bible study view, but it still takes a number of seconds just to switch from passage guide to exegetical guide for example. I hope there are more performance fixes are in the works.

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/170390#Comment_170390

I have Logos on a high-end desktop machine (Core i7-920 processor, ATI Radeon HD 4850 graphics card, 6 GB of tri-channel RAM, newly installed Windows 7 64 bit, and 20 megabit fiber internet connection). It still runs very slowly. It takes a LONG time to start up, and clicking on the home button causes another long delay. I've cut way back on the number of open windows in my bible study view, but it still takes a number of seconds just to switch from passage guide to exegetical guide for example. I hope there are more performance fixes are in the works.

Chris, here are my specs, which sound very similar to yours (though you didn't report free HD space - a critical spec). But I don't have the slow-down issues you do:

Dell Studio XPS 435MT; Win7 64bit Home Premium ; 6GB DDR3 RAM; 465GB free HD space on C:\; CPU: Intel i7-920 2.67GHz (8MB L3 cache); Video ATI Radeon HD 4850 (512MB)

Starting L4 with 24 tabs (3 visible in parallel panes), with several note files and visual filters running, took less than one minute. Switching tabs takes less than 2 seconds, the first time, for most tabs (some take longer). The second time goes much more quickly. Yes loading the home page does take a long time for me (just loaded it in 15 seconds - so maybe it just seems long), but I almost never look at it anyway.

This suggests a software issue, and among the candidates are anti-virus/anti-malware programs, so-called 'accelerators' (RAM and/or HD), any other background tasks/services that are not standard in Windows, and possible conflicts with other software you have running. Early on some found a lot of relief by turning off the Tablet PC Input Service (if it helps, then you may want to set it to "manual" or "disabled"), but I don't know if that's still the case. (Tablet PC Input Service is set to Automatic in a default installation, regardless of hardware configuration.)

Lester Busald

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/169501#Comment_169501

Try changing your preferences to make yourself the administrator for Logos. Also, go to program settings and turn internet off. This helped greatly on mine.

Michael, how do I change to administor for Logos. Also where do I turn internet off?

Thanks, Les

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/170720#Comment_170720

Michael, how do I change to administor for Logos.

Please note that setting "run as administrator" on the L4 shortcut is not recommended by Logos developers and WILL lead to problems when trying to update L4.

Also where do I turn internet off?

In Tools | Program Settings in L4.

Steve Johnson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/170730#Comment_170730

Please note that setting "run as administrator" on the L4 shortcut is not recommended by Logos developers and WILL lead to problems when trying to update L4.

Um, what kind of problems? Could we run Logos as admin. until program/resource updates are released and switch back as necessary? I'd hate for my layouts to be turned into hash.

Chris Dixon

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/170412#Comment_170412

Starting L4 with 24 tabs (3 visible in parallel panes), with several note files and visual filters running, took less than one minute. Switching tabs takes less than 2 seconds, the first time, for most tabs (some take longer). The second time goes much more quickly. Yes loading the home page does take a long time for me (just loaded it in 15 seconds - so maybe it just seems long), but I almost never look at it anyway.

Thanks for the tips, but the PC is optimized pretty well. When I said "a long time", I was speaking in relative terms to other software. Most programs load in just a few seconds and have no delay at all when switching tabs (even the big Microsoft dev studios). Don't get me wrong... I understand that a lot is going on with each click, but I'm sure it can be improved. My point for posting in the first place was to make sure people understand that a fast computer is not going to make L4 as responsive as other software.

I should also mention that once I've opened it and run it a few times, the system is much faster (about 10 seconds to open, 2 seconds to go to the home page) Probably from putting a lot of it in cache.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/170832#Comment_170832

Um, what kind of problems?

http://community.logos.com/forums/p/22452/167718.aspx

http://community.logos.com/forums/t/19651.aspx

http://community.logos.com/forums/p/3539/38467.aspx

etc, etc

Could we run Logos as admin. until program/resource updates are released and switch back as necessary? I'd hate for my layouts to be turned into hash.

"run as admin" might already have caused a problem for the next update! Disabling UAC is just as bad (more likely to be done in Vista). Have you seen http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_Running_Slowly?

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/170848#Comment_170848

"run as admin" might already have caused a problem for the next update! Disabling UAC is just as bad (more likely to be done in Vista).

I agree that running L4 as administrator may cause some problems (though it hasn't for me). On the other hand, running L4 on a desktop set up to run as an administrator in the Windows environment, does improve L4 performance (I assume you know the difference between these two statements.)

I'm not aware of how disabling UAC can interfere with Logos4 (regardless of the wisdom of doing so). Do you know something I don't?

Nord Zootman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/170887#Comment_170887

I wasn't aware that running as administrator could cause a problem. Is this something I should change (I now run it as admin.)? What problems can that create?

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/170909#Comment_170909

I wasn't aware that running as administrator could cause a problem. Is this something I should change (I now run it as admin.)? What problems can that create?

For some it has caused problems with updating (it hasn't for me). Another issue is with SmartTags (only available in the 4.1 beta, so far). In the discussion about that in the PC beta forum, Logos techs say they do not recommend running Logos4 as an administrator. If there are other reasons that running L4 as administrator is not recommended, please chime in.

NOTE: This is not the same as running Logos4 from and an "administrator" desktop in Windows. That is supported (and recommended for better performance by most Logos users).

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/170937#Comment_170937

I wasn't aware that running as administrator could cause a problem. Is this something I should change (I now run it as admin.)? What problems can that create?

For some it has caused problems with updating (it hasn't for me). Another issue is with SmartTags (only available in the 4.1 beta, so far). In the discussion about that in the PC beta forum, Logos techs say they do not recommend running Logos4 as an administrator. If there are other reasons that running L4 as administrator is not recommended, please chime in.

Just to be clear (Win 7/Vista):-

running L4 in a Windows Administrator account is OK; and
running L4 in a Windows 7/Vista Standard user account is also OK, because
L4 is designed to install** and run in a Standard user environment (it does not require Admin privileges)
Admin accounts run as Standard user accounts (Admin privileges are disabled until required)
so if you force L4 to "run as administrator" it can set file permissions that require that level of access!

** Prerequisites requires Admin privilege but not the L4 application!

The most common problems occur when L4 is installed with Admin privilege (see links in previous post).

The impact of UAC seems to be confined to prompting when Admin privilege is required (if turned off you won't know that L4 is running elevated!).

Note: Win XP runs an Admin account with full admin privileges at all times.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/170937#Comment_170937

NOTE: This is not the same as running Logos4 from and an "administrator" desktop in Windows. That is supported (and recommended for better performance by most Logos users).

I run L4 Beta in a Standard User account on my desktop computer and do not have any performance problems as I compare it against L4 "Gold" running in my Administrator account, all with UAC enabled and not using "Run as administrator"!

Note to Bradley: why not block L4 from running elevated as implied here.

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/170997#Comment_170997

I run L4 Beta in a Standard User account on my desktop computer and do not have any performance problems as I compare it against L4 "Gold" running in my Administrator account, all with UAC enabled and not using "Run as administrator"!

But some have reported noticeable improvements running L4 from an administrator desktop. Such reports are anecdotal, but anecdotal evidence suggests something.

Anyway, we've probably beaten this issue as far as we can within the confines of the forum guidelines.

Craig Broyles

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/169364#Comment_169364

Deborah Mickens Replied Tue Sep 7, 2010 4:11 PM

frederick harrell:

Logos 4 is the slowest program on both my laptop and desktop - far slower than any of Adobe CS4 stuff (photoshop, flash, illustrator etc.) that used to hold that record on my machine.

Frederick,

Logos 4 is designed for newer computers (within approximately the last year).

Deborah Mickens
Logos Bible Software, Marketing
dmickens@logos.com

I'm disappointed in this reply from Logos that "Logos 4 is designed for newer computers (within approximately the last year)"---as a general explanation for the program's slow speed, even for the simplest of operations. When I have to wait and wait for simple operations that were instantaneous in Logos 3 (e.g., to see highlighting appear in an English Bible and to type text in the Notes), I must regard Logos 4 as a setback from Logos 3. Mind you, I have no intention of reverting to Logos 3, but I wish to add my voice to the hundreds on this forum who have patiently requested optimization of Logos 4.

I too find that Logos 4 is the slowest of my programs, including Adobe Photoshop, which performs many complex graphic algorithms. I beg the Logos engineers to get Logos 4 up to speed.

Craig

Fred Chapman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/171133#Comment_171133

Mind you, I have no intention of reverting to Logos 3, but I wish to add my voice to the hundreds on this forum who have patiently requested optimization of Logos 4.

Welcome to the forums.

While speed and performance has been an issue since the release of L4, I think that the development team at Logos has been focusing most of their resources and time on getting features implemented. Today 4.1RC1 was released and includes some features many users have been requesting since the beginning. Some performance and speed issues have improved since the first release and I think they have been clear that this is a priority as they move forward.

Matt

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/170833#Comment_170833

Just so you don't feel alone Chris, I too have a more than adequate system that is blistering fast with every piece of software other than Logos 4. If I need to do some basic bible research, I don't use Logos, I use Google because with the delays in the various boxes appearing, the windows taking a long time to populate etc., I can get it done much more quickly with Google. I keep hoping that each successive service release will improve the performance, but it doesn't look like it has from not only my own experience, but from various reports I've read. I was really hopeful about 4.1, but I saw in the beta forums that numerous beta testers have seen the more recent 4.1 betas result in slower and slower performance, so I'll just have to wait and see. It would be nice if Logos would take these performance issues seriously and stop attempting to blame the end-user's computer.

Here are some simple metrics that I just ran on my machine:

Logos launch time from the time I clicked on the icon to launch until the home page was fully loaded and rendered
- 59 seconds
Time for a Search Panel to appear after I click on the Search Panel icon
- 1-2 seconds
Time for a bible to open to the chapter and verse specified in the command line 'esv rm 7:18'
- 15 seconds
Time for the parallel resource sets drop-down list to populate after I click on them within the now open bible
- 15 seconds

It had been at least a few days to a week since I had launched Logos 4. The same trend existed/exists in the Mac version. In the alpha versions in the early part of this year, it was much faster for basic things than the 'finished' Windows product. As they continued to glop features on, it too experienced dramatic falloffs in performance to the point where I could not tell the difference between Logos on the Mac or the PC.

I'm sure that for some people, those times are no problem. For me, as I said, it's faster to go to use google. This is most definitely *not* a problem of optimization or my system specs being too low, unless Logos 4 requires optimizations that no other software does. I would really like to see Logos make a commitment to decreasing the latency in very basic operations.

Matt

Charles

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/171133#Comment_171133

I too am extremely upset with logos 4. Change is not better. Didn't we learn that in the last election.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/184703#Comment_184703

Have you all tried the help in http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_Running_Slowly ? And, please, this was the ONLY place I could get away from politics [:'(]

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/184737#Comment_184737

I guess I'm weird.

My machine (older core duo) runs logos 4 great.

I just posted on another thread that the beta is snappier than ever....go figure.

David A Egolf

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/169364#Comment_169364

This post is not going to make me popular in Bellingham, but I suggest that Logos should take those quad processor beasts away from the developers and replace them with 4 year old dual processor systems.

When I was running a web site project I blocked attempts by the developers from getting faster machines with larger screens. If the developers don't feel the "pain" they will not fix the problem.

The policy at Logos needs to be no machine upgrades until the performance is fixed.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/184777#Comment_184777

This post is not going to make me popular in Bellingham, but I suggest that Logos should take those quad processor beasts away from the developers and replace them with 4 year old dual processor systems.

The problem is that my 4 year old laptop (see below) runs L4 acceptably. My desktop quad-core beats it in raw power indexing and searching but the response times for tabs & scrolling resources are not significantly different. In other words, I'm content working with L4 on my laptop!

Other users have been disappointed with quad-cores/dual-cores having better specs than mine! Mainly with response times changing tabs and layouts, jerky scrolling, slow typing with Notes (I don't use Notes!). Parallel Resources is slow for everybody!

When the developers go home they probably complain as much as anybody[:D]

There have been some improvements with the latest 4.2 beta - check out the comments on the PC Beta forum.