Which MacBook?

Having had my iMac for a couple of trouble-free years, I am ready to replace my ageing Windows laptop with a MacBook.

Currently, I am hesitating between a MacBook Air 13" with 1.8GHz Dual-Core Intel Core i7, 4GB 1333MHz DDR3 SDRAM, 256GB flash storage and a MacBook Pro 13" with 2.7GHz dual-core Intel Core i7, 8GB 1333MHz, 500GB 5400-rpm.

Strictly from a Logs 4 Mac perspective which should I go for?

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Mike Binks

Not having time to check the exact specs - people tell me that having a 'back lit' keyboard is one of the thing that turns out to be a major advantage when using the laptop away from the desk.

Kolen Cheung

I am using the 13" Macbook Pro. I bought it a few months ago and find it satisfying.

Originally, I searched a YouTube video comparing the performance of a max. out 13" Macbook Air to a Macbook Pro 13" model and I find the Macbook Air disappointing. Not saying that it is bad, it is good for its weights. MBA is about 1.3kg and MBP is about 2kg. (And the 11" MBA is 1kg only).

I myself is satisfied with the MBP's weight. 2kg for almost 1400 books in Logos, and with an excellent speed they all works great.

Frank Jones

All things equal, I would go with the MBA. The newest version has the backlit lighting. From a logos 4 perspective, you would want the SSD option which speeds up L4 access times significantly. You already have an iMac. You will not regret the MBA. My wife has one and loves it. I have a MBP 15 inch but updated it will an SSD.

Billy Taylor

I think the air is great, but the power of the macbook pro just can't be beat. You get incredibly lightweight with the air, there no doubt., but the storage and the extra ram on the pro is worth the little bit of extra weight. I use my 13 pro extensively and it is just a workhourse. With the increased use of multimedia in ministry storage is so important. Also, I use a 24" monitor at my desk with the 13 macpro. That just can't be beat. Go with the pro, you can't go wrong. (unless, you just really need the cool factor of the air - that you can't put a price on!)

Ben

It's not my primary machine (have a mid-2010 imac for that) but I love my new Air (13, 128). Searches take no time at all with the SSD, and it weighs nothing to haul around. If you don't travel often AND have the cash to add an SSD to the pro, I'd go for that+ 8 Gb RAM.

Paul N

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/287145#Comment_287145

I believe it was MJD that rightly conveyed the idea that the MBA is the smallest Apple device that will carry your full Logos library.

My issue would be the screen size for Logos. How about holding out for the 15" MBA?

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

Another option is an Apple refurbished current generation MacBook Pro 15" with 2.0 GHz Quad-Core i7, 4GB 1333MHz DDR3 SDRAM, 500GB 5400 rpm => http://store.apple.com/uk/product/FC721B/A

Apple refurbished has same warranty as new; box has a refurbished label, inside packed like new.

MacBook Pro 15" has 1440x900 screen resolution, same as MacBook Air 13", and bit more than MacBook Pro 13" 1280x800 resolution.

Caveat: 15" MacBook Pro weighs 5.6 pounds, noticeably more than MacBook Air's 2.96 pounds.

Also, MacBook Pro 15" has RAM upgrade option to 8 GB (memory prices currently trending downward). For Logos 4 use, do recommend upgrading 5400 RPM hard drive to faster hard drive or preferably Solid State Disk (SSD). Could use original hard drive for portable external storage or backup.

Noticed MacSales can ship internationally (not know about import duty):

750 GB 7200 RPM upgrade kit => http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Seagate/YST9750420AS/

500 GB 7200 RPM with 4 GB SSD Hybrid upgrade kit => http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Seagate/YST9500562AS/

MacBook Pro needs firmware update for SATA III transfer speeds => http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1450 f

240 GB SSD upgrade => http://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/YSSD6X240/

Looking at 240 GB SSD in UK's Amazon => http://www.amazon.co.uk/Patriot-Wildfire-SandForce-SF-2200-Processor/dp/B0058GK55G/ref=sr_1_4 noted Apple's new MacBook Air models are competitively priced.

Keep Smiling [:)]

Patrick S.

Given that Logos 4 is a resource hog you should give it the most resources possible. The i7 processors in the MacBook Air and MacBook Pro are not the same. Yes they are both Sandy Bridge generation i7 processors but they are different types, the processor in the MacBook Pro is more powerful.

The point about SSD drive in the Air should be discounted. You can always put an SSD drive in the Pro, but for either machine you can't upgrade the processor or bus speed.
If it is going to be long term machine for you go for the MacBook Pro.

Not that I have anything against the MacBook Air, I think it is a superb machine. We got an 11" model with i5 processor for our daughter who has just started university — she loves it. But she's not running Logos 4 [;)]

MJD

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/287198#Comment_287198

I would suggest the MBA without hesitation. This unit is amazingly fast, the new "i" processor and SSD is magical.

I also really like having super lightweight and a "cooler" running machine that the MBA provides. My regular MacBook runs really hot when using on my lap.

Kevin A. Purcell

Logos will be just as slow on both machines. [:D]

Only kidding. The high RAM will help and if you can later upgrade to an SSD, the Pro will be more satisfying in the long run, unless you also put a premium on portability. I have both an Air and a 15" MBP. I have 8GB of RAM in my Pro as well. I notice very little difference in performance between the two programs since I also have an SSD in my MBP.

My advice is get the Pro if you think you will add an SSD at a later date or get the Air if you want something more portable and light.

RPW

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/287373#Comment_287373

Kevin, I am also considering moving from the PC platform to a Mac. I am curious, do you notice much performance difference between your MBA and 15" MBP due to the discrete video in the MBP? Does the integrated video offer a satisfying experience? I am considering the MBP 13" vs MBP 15". Of course I like to be fiscally frugal, but I'm still working on patience. What kind of improvement did you note after installing the SSD in your MBP 15"?

Thanks,

Ron

I'm using a MBA 13" i7 4gb/256gb. Logos runs great on it. Prior to my 2011 MBA, I was using a 2010 MBA. Logos ran horribly on it until the 4.3 upgrade came out - then it ran fine. Your decision between MBP and MBA should be based on other factors than Logos since I'm assuming it also runs great on a MBP 13" as well.

Patrick S.

Alan, subjective statements like "my MacBook XXX runs great" are just that — subjective. If you want to choose between a MacBook Pro or MacBook Air you have to:

Consider what's important for you — size, performance, expandability.
Remember that MB Air's come by default with an SSD drive which will boost their overall performance over a normal HDD. But you can put an SSD drive in a MB Pro.
The MB Pro's come with a higher performance Thunderbolt connection than the MB Air + they have a FireWire 800 port, MB Air does not.
The MB Pro has a faster Sandy Bridge i7 processor.
Finally, to judge performance objectively, you should compare specs from performance tests. And then NOT just the total rating (because of SSD vs default HDD) but individual tests. Below is a link which has detailed individual tests taken from MacWorld Speedmark tests.

http://www.marketingtactics.com/Speedmark/

Good luck and enjoy your new Mac, whatever you get [:)]

Kevin A. Purcell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/287391#Comment_287391

Kevin, I am also considering moving from the PC platform to a Mac. I am curious, do you notice much performance difference between your MBA and 15" MBP due to the discrete video in the MBP? Does the integrated video offer a satisfying experience? I am considering the MBP 13" vs MBP 15". Of course I like to be fiscally frugal, but I'm still working on patience. What kind of improvement did you note after installing the SSD in your MBP 15"?

1. In Logos there is no noticeable difference between MBP w/SSD and MBA

2. Integrated video is on the newer MBA. Mine has discrete from 2010 version. Strange that Apple updated by speeding up processor and SSD but putting slower graphics. I'm guessing it was a cost cutting thing. But as for differences, see #1.

3. After I installed SSD on my MBP I saw a big boost in things that do a lot of hard drive thrashing. Start up is faster, programs launch faster, Logos searching is faster, working with video/picture editing is faster.

Ben

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/287555#Comment_287555

"Strange that Apple updated by speeding up processor and SSD but putting
slower graphics. I'm guessing it was a cost cutting thing."

It has to do with chipsets and legal agreements. NVIDIA can't build chipsets for Apple anymore, thanks to legal wrangling with Intel. So Apple had two choices. Do no chip update or update to the new chips but without discrete NVIDA graphics. In most cases, it's the right choice for performance. If you're trying to game or edit video, it might be problematic. I still don't understand how Logos can tax a video processor, since it's essentially text +UI.

Dan Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/287572#Comment_287572

I am not sure how it works but i do remember reading that something in mac os x allows processes to download onto an under utilize GPU.

-dan

George Somsel

Having had my iMac for a couple of trouble-free years, I am ready to replace my ageing Windows laptop with a MacBook.

Currently, I am hesitating between a MacBook Air 13" with 1.8GHz Dual-Core Intel Core i7, 4GB 1333MHz DDR3 SDRAM, 256GB flash storage and a MacBook Pro 13" with 2.7GHz dual-core Intel Core i7, 8GB 1333MHz, 500GB 5400-rpm.

Strictly from a Logs 4 Mac perspective which should I go for?

I would suggest one with an HP or a Dell label. [:P]

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/287660#Comment_287660

I would suggest one with an HP or a Dell label.

Observation: Apple worth more than Dell => http://macdailynews.com/2011/09/20/apple-now-worth-fourteen-times-dell%E2%80%99s-market-value/ (bit of a change since 1997)

HP tried to sell PC Business, but so far no buyers => http://www.businessinsider.com/hp-tried-to-sell-pc-business-to-lg-and-samsung-2011-9

By the way, running a "Hackintosh" on an HP or a Dell is a violation of Apple's OS X License agreement (OS X only licensed for use on Apple computers). Apple's license agreement was tested in court and found valid => http://www.macworld.com/article/144683/2009/12/psystar_apple_settle.html

Disclaimer: my wife uses Logos 4 Mac on 27" iMac (her Logos 4 use is increasing) while personally using a Dell XPS L702X 17" Laptop. Note: two Dell Outlet XPS 17" laptops with 2nd Generation Quad Core i7 currently cost less than one refurbished Apple 17" MacBook Pro. Some Apple models have price premiums while other models are competitively priced (e.g. iPad, MacBook Air, Mac Mini, 13" MacBook Pro). Personal Mac purchase quandary is previous Mac Mini model with Snow Leopard Server or much faster new Mac Mini models with OS X Lion => http://www.appleinsider.com/mac_price_guide/ Daily visiting => http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/specialdeals/mac/mac_mini (not seen current model Mac Mini's yet). Noticed recent Mac Mini price promotion => http://www.appleinsider.com/mac_price_guide/ (holiday season is fast approaching).

Noticed couple new ultrabooks shipping soon with similar price as MacBook Air models => http://www.lovefortech.com/2011/09/02/macbook-air-competitors-the-ultrabooks-are-coming-toshiba-and-acer/

Likewise reading rumor about surprise MacBook Pro refresh this month => http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/09/13/apple_may_surprise_with_late_2011_macbook_pro_refresh.html

Note: if MacBook Pro refresh rumor true, then anticipate price drop for older models.

Keep Smiling [:)]

Patrick S.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/287660#Comment_287660

Having had my iMac for a couple of trouble-free years, I am ready to replace my ageing Windows laptop with a MacBook.

Currently, I am hesitating between a MacBook Air 13" with 1.8GHz Dual-Core Intel Core i7, 4GB 1333MHz DDR3 SDRAM, 256GB flash storage and a MacBook Pro 13" with 2.7GHz dual-core Intel Core i7, 8GB 1333MHz, 500GB 5400-rpm.

Strictly from a Logs 4 Mac perspective which should I go for?

I would suggest one with an HP or a Dell label.

But the unspoken expectation was that the person wanted a good operating system - not a fuzzy photocopy of the good OS. [+o(]

Mike Binks

Having had my iMac for a couple of trouble-free years, I am ready to replace my ageing Windows laptop with a MacBook.

Currently, I am hesitating between a MacBook Air 13" with 1.8GHz Dual-Core Intel Core i7, 4GB 1333MHz DDR3 SDRAM, 256GB flash storage and a MacBook Pro 13" with 2.7GHz dual-core Intel Core i7, 8GB 1333MHz, 500GB 5400-rpm.

Strictly from a Logs 4 Mac perspective which should I go for?

Coming back to the discussion a bit late in the day, and knowing that you have a desk-top machine for sustained work, I would also place slightly less emphasis on marginal speed differences and consider the thing you most do with a laptop. That is carry it. A small decrease in weight can can adversely affect both your stamina and the muscle building possibilities inherent in lifting and carrying. I am told the difference in exertion over a day is quite noticeable. Therefore you should definately go for the MacBook Pro - preferably with a light lead cover.

Patrick S.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/287698#Comment_287698

preferably with a light lead cover.

Is that to block the "reality distortion field" rays eminating from the MacBook Pro?

Alan Macgregor

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/287711#Comment_287711

Folks

I really appreciate your shared experiences, advice and humour.

No, I don't want a Windows machine, George; I want one that "just works". [;)]

You have all clarified my thinking and raised issues that I hadn't even considered.

I shall be using the laptop primarily for academic work. Mostly I'll use it at home, but it will occasionally be taken to a library (University or National Library of Scotland).

I won't have much more on it than Logos 4 Mac, Mellel and Endnote for Mac. (If only Microsoft did a Mac version of OneNote: it's the best/only-decent program they have produced, then that would be on it also. I suppose that I'll put Parallels on to run OneNote.)

Weight isn't really an issue, either. I am more concerned with performance. It seems that SSD is the clincher as far as speed is concerned. Since the SSD is an "arm and a leg" in the UK, I am veering towards

13' MBA with 1.8GHz Dual-Core Intel Core i7, 4GB 1333MHz DDR3 SDRAM, 256GB flash storage. It's the top spec MBA I can buy in the UK

Any thoughts on that?

Every blessing

Alan

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/287925#Comment_287925

...I am veering towards

13' MBA with 1.8GHz Dual-Core Intel Core i7, 4GB 1333MHz DDR3 SDRAM, 256GB flash storage. It's the top spec MBA I can buy in the UK

Any thoughts on that?

Alan, that's the configuration I have and it runs great. I'm not sure if the number of volumes has any impact on performance... if it does, I have Platinum (the version before they pulled the baker books) and NICOT/NT, WBC, and various other misc. sets - it still runs great.

Let me ask you guys a question. If you place an SSD in a MBP, does it support "instant on" and 30 days of sleep mode like the MBA? I've found that I really enjoy the instant on functionality. I close the lid of my laptop and flip it open and it's up and running in less than a second most of the time. This makes it convenient to run from one office to another while I'm meeting with colleagues - it's almost like flipping on an iPad. Also, it's nice to know that when I close the laptop that I can reopen it hours or even days later with almost no impact on whatever charge I had left in my battery.

If the MBP doesn't have those features with the SSD and those are important features to you, you might want to take that into consideration as well.

Blessings,

- jp

Stephen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/287940#Comment_287940

No matter what you choose be prepared to over pay....

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/288857#Comment_288857

No matter what you choose be prepared to over pay....

wow... that's helpful.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/288857#Comment_288857

No matter what you choose be prepared to over pay....

Who gave this guy the password to the Mac Forum [:)]

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/288869#Comment_288869

No matter what you choose be prepared to over pay....

Who gave this guy the password to the Mac Forum

I did. I hacked you. [:D]

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/288859#Comment_288859

No matter what you choose be prepared to over pay....

wow... that's helpful.

Sentiment was valid years ago, however several Apple models have competitive pricing (while other models have premium pricing: e.g. 17" MacBook Pro).

Apple's prices for new MacBook Air models are competitive (in fact, price leading); upcoming ultrabook models by PC manufacturers should be close to Apple's pricing => http://www.lovefortech.com/2011/09/02/macbook-air-competitors-the-ultrabooks-are-coming-toshiba-and-acer/

Apple "tax" article after new MacBook Air introduction => http://www.cultofmac.com/107492/so-much-for-the-apple-tax-laptop-makers-cant-compete-with-the-macbook-air-for-the-price/

Month later, Intel setup $ 300 million fund to help competition => http://arstechnica.com/hardware/news/2011/09/ultrabook-intels-300-million-plan-to-beat-apple-at-its-own-game.ars

Apple's new Mac Mini models have decent pricing (especially compared to small form factor PC's that are easy to carry with 2nd generation Intel Core i5 and i7).

Apple's 27" iMac models have competitive prices (primarily since 27" monitor with 2,560 x 1,440 resolution still costs hundreds).

Apple iPad's have competitive pricing (price leader for over a year).

Wonder about some upcoming Mac models being like new MacBook Airs since Apple has cash to pay for factory equipment update to produce newer technology with favorable pricing for Apple.

Keep Smiling [:)]

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/288877#Comment_288877

Apple's new Mac Mini models have decent pricing (especially compared to small form factor PC's that are easy to carry with 2nd generation Intel Core i5 and i7).

Apple's 27" iMac models have competitive prices (primarily since 27" monitor with 2,560 x 1,440 resolution still costs hundreds).

Apple iPad's have competitive pricing (price leader for over a year).

Wonder about some upcoming Mac models being like new MacBook Airs since Apple has cash to pay for factory equipment update to produce newer technology with favorable pricing for Apple.

Forget the pricing. You need to go to the company store to get anything for a MAC, no? I don't like a single source. Even with cars I can go buy a knock-off part if I wish.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/288878#Comment_288878

Forget the pricing. You need to go to the company store to get anything for a MAC, no?

No, several Brick and Mortar stores sell Mac hardware and accessories plus many web sites. For many models, Apple uses standard laptop DDR3 SO-Dimm's (need to buy correct speed).

AppleInsider has Mac Price Guide => http://www.appleinsider.com/mac_price_guide/

NewEgg.com tends to have decent memory upgrade pricing (less than Apple); customer comments can include memory working in various Mac models.

Caveat: MacBook Air models have memory surface mounted (not consumer upgradeable). In contrast, new Mac Mini is easy to upgrade memory: turn device over, then twist cover for access to memory slots. Article has screen shot => http://www.macworld.com/article/161414/2011/08/mac_mini_mid_2011_review.html

Apple has online refurbished store => http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/specialdeals/mac and iPad => http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/specialdeals/ipad

Apple OS X is only licensed to run on computers manufactured by Apple.

New Mac Mini's are computers that can use "knock-off" parts for external storage, keyboard, microphone, monitor, mouse, printer, and speakers. Pondering remote desktop access for Mac Mini (for portable use with a 17" Dell laptop) since Mac Mini is similar to external hard drive in size. From price perspective, new Mac Mini and a Dell Outlet 17" XPS laptop are less expensive than a refurbished 17" MacBook Pro (with Windows need for many software updates and configuration tweaks, at times wonder if should have bought 17" MacBook Pro).

Keep Smiling [:)]

Patrick S.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/288857#Comment_288857

No matter what you choose be prepared to over pay....

A very Windows (lowest common denominator) mentality. Mac users have a deeper understanding of value and worth along the lines of Matt 13:44.

Anyway when one looks at one of the most beautifully designed & made Macs ever, the current MacBook Airs, all the usual suspect Windows machine manufacturers cannot match it for price, let alone value. [;)]

...I can go buy a knock-off [...] if I wish.

That describes Windows and Windows machines quite well. Cheap and nasty knock offs of the real thing. Must leave a bad taste in your mouth knowing that you are having to put up with a poor imitation. [;)]

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/288893#Comment_288893

That describes Windows and Windows machines quite well. Cheap and nasty knock offs of the real thing. Must leave a bad taste in your mouth knowing that you are having to put up with a poor imitation.

Bull. Generally I want to upgrade when I get a non-original part. When my power supply went a number of years ago, I bought one that was more robust.

Patrick S.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/288900#Comment_288900

That describes Windows and Windows machines quite well. Cheap and nasty knock offs of the real thing. Must leave a bad taste in your mouth knowing that you are having to put up with a poor imitation.

Bull. Generally I want to upgrade when I get a non-original part. When my power supply went a number of years ago, I bought one that was more robust.

I think you missed the point.

Anyway, not interested in a flame match. You enjoy your... whatever it is, and I'll enjoy my iMac.

Blessings.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/288900#Comment_288900

When my power supply went a number of years ago, I bought one that was more robust.

That is to say, you wanted one that WORKED. [:P]

Ben

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/288906#Comment_288906

"No matter what you choose be prepared to over pay...." [*-)]

Actually, PC makers are finding it impossible to compete with Apple pricing on the Macbook Air. You simply can't buy a PC machine with those specs AND that quality of construction AND that form factor. Ditto for the iPad.

Apple has spent years working on their supply chain and now it's paying off bigtime. Intel really wants to push "ultrabooks" (i.e. Macbook air clones), and is kicking in hundreds of millions of dollars to that end, but PC makers simply can't compete.

From Ars Technica- "the three biggest PC OEMs in the world and none of them can match Apple for price or portability....In theory, it should be easy for the PC OEMs to match Apple...Yet the PC OEMs say there's no way they can bring a product to market for less than Apple"

http://arstechnica.com/hardware/news/2011/09/ultrabook-intels-300-million-plan-to-beat-apple-at-its-own-game.ars/1

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/287940#Comment_287940

Let me ask you guys a question. If you place an SSD in a MBP, does it support "instant on" and 30 days of sleep mode like the MBA? I've found that I really enjoy the instant on functionality. I close the lid of my laptop and flip it open and it's up and running in less than a second most of the time. This makes it convenient to run from one office to another while I'm meeting with colleagues - it's almost like flipping on an iPad. Also, it's nice to know that when I close the laptop that I can reopen it hours or even days later with almost no impact on whatever charge I had left in my battery.

If the MBP doesn't have those features with the SSD and those are important features to you, you might want to take that into consideration as well.

[sigh]... flame wars... so back to my question, which was based on my attempt to contribute to the original topic of this thread, "Which MacBook?" I looked it up quickly - it seems a MBP with an SSD will return from sleep fairly instantly like a MBA. The question remains, how long will the battery last while the MBP is sleeping? If that's relevant to your decision then that might be a differentiating factor.

PS - in the PC vs MAC flame (yawn)... no one's mentioning the fact that macs come with a 1,000 charge cycle battery that actually gets the suggested amount of runtime or better (I get roughly 6 to 8 hours on my MBP depending on what I'm doing)... flame on...

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/288931#Comment_288931

"Which MacBook?" I looked it up quickly - it seems a MBP with an SSD will return from sleep fairly instantly like a MBA. The question remains, how long will the battery last while the MBP is sleeping?

Apologies: not have personal experience with SSD's, only reading articles and noticing wide range of transfer speeds.

OWC blog has several SSD articles => http://blog.macsales.com/tag/ssd including OWC Firmware update for their SandForce SSD's

Found a blog with SSD tweaks => http://blogs.nullvision.com/?p=275 (creating a RAM disk for temporary files when using SSD is intriguing; likewise disabling hibernate mood to free up GB's of disk space), follow-up blog => http://blogs.nullvision.com/?p=357

Apple's MacBook Air Features page => http://www.apple.com/macbookair/features.html has footnote 3 (how Apple tested standby mode for up to 30 days)

Keep Smiling [:)]