Common Text Transliteration Feature...
Hello 
I would like to see a feature (or button / word click / right click feature), that allows for the changing of the showing certain words to the transliteration of the Hebrew understanding. For example, Yeshua instead of Jesus.
Instead of the bulkiness of the interlinear at the bottom when all you want is to learn the Hebrew rendering of what you are reading in certain places, allowing the spoken / Hebrew language of that word or name to read instead of our language's interpretation, in context, for additional learning and memorization.
Maybe trivial, but none the less an idea
Comments
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Douglas said:
I would like to see a feature (or button / word click / right click feature), that allows for the changing of the showing certain words to the transliteration of the Hebrew understanding. For example, Yeshua instead of Jesus.
Visual filter(s) and Highlighting can already change certain words. Currently, 6 English Reverse Interlinear Bibles have Anderson-Forbes Hebrew Morphology and Anderson-Forbes Aramaic Morphology tagging in Old Testament. New Testament has 20 Bibles with Logos Greek Morphology: 9 English and 11 Greek.
Logos 4 Visual Filtering with custom Highlighting can reduce font size, change font color, and apply subscript to original text (e.g. Lord) and add Text After (e.g. יהוה):
Keep Smiling
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Hello KS
I was referring more to the English Transliteration of the New Testament in Hebrew, Hebrew rendering
Shaul for Paul, and the like to the learning of the the spoken Hebrew language/rendering. I know there are a few resources out there that offer similar, that is what spawned the idea. I think Logos could take this a bit further. When the greek transliteration is retrieved for Jesus it is not Yeshua which is what the Hebrews would call him. Same for Paul...Shaul. I'm not sure if I am explaining it it correctly, or if I have even presented a pliable way of implementing it, but if there are some suggestions to improve this one to get it implemented, I highly invite them Thank You.
P.S. This could be another way to "Soop Up" Visual Filters though
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Douglas - sounds like you want us to learn a new pidgin Greek-Hebrew[:D]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Douglas said:
Hello KS
I was referring more to the English Transliteration of the New Testament in Hebrew, Hebrew rendering
Shaul for Paul, and the like to the learning of the the spoken Hebrew language/rendering. I know there are a few resources out there that offer similar, that is what spawned the idea. I think Logos could take this a bit further. When the greek transliteration is retrieved for Jesus it is not Yeshua which is what the Hebrews would call him. Same for Paul...Shaul. I'm not sure if I am explaining it it correctly, or if I have even presented a pliable way of implementing it, but if there are some suggestions to improve this one to get it implemented, I highly invite them Thank You.
P.S. This could be another way to "Soop Up" Visual Filters though
What purpose would this serve?
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Douglas said:
Hello KS
I was referring more to the English Transliteration of the New Testament in Hebrew, Hebrew rendering
Shaul for Paul, and the like to the learning of the the spoken Hebrew language/rendering. I know there are a few resources out there that offer similar, that is what spawned the idea. I think Logos could take this a bit further. When the greek transliteration is retrieved for Jesus it is not Yeshua which is what the Hebrews would call him. Same for Paul...Shaul. I'm not sure if I am explaining it it correctly, or if I have even presented a pliable way of implementing it, but if there are some suggestions to improve this one to get it implemented, I highly invite them Thank You.
P.S. This could be another way to "Soop Up" Visual Filters though
Is this something like what you want to achieve ? I've thrown in both a 'Hebrew' and 'Greek' example.
I take it you are just wanting to familiarise yourself with the 'Hebrew' and 'Greek' pronunciation of these names at this point in time rather than try to learn the full grammar and vocabulary of the language along with the ability to read the orginal languages. Is this correct ? Is the same approach the Keep Smiling suggested earlier, you just need to determine how you setup the highlight.
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Hey George and Andrew
Actually, for this suggestion, I was leaning more towards "to learn the full grammar and vocabulary of the language along with the ability to read the original languages". The examples I posted were tid bits of the Idea. I would Love to click a "Transliteration" button at the top of the panel I am studying and have the language (if other than English) instantly turn into its native transliteration. This could apply to resources with an underlying text also. I think this would be fun.
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Douglas said:
Hey George and Andrew
Actually, for this suggestion, I was leaning more towards "to learn the full grammar and vocabulary of the language along with the ability to read the original languages". The examples I posted were tid bits of the Idea. I would Love to click a "Transliteration" button at the top of the panel I am studying and have the language (if other than English) instantly turn into its native transliteration. This could apply to resources with an underlying text also. I think this would be fun.
If you are interested in learning the languages, I think you are making it more difficult than it needs to be. I would suggest simply learning the alphabet / alef bet.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Douglas said:
I was referring more to the English Transliteration of the New Testament in Hebrew, Hebrew rendering
Shaul for Paul, and the like to the learning of the the spoken Hebrew language/rendering. I know there are a few resources out there that offer similar, that is what spawned the idea.Logos pre-publication => http://www.logos.com/product/10030/the-scriptures includes Ephesians 1:1 text:
Sha’ul, an emissary of יהושע Messiah by the desire of Elohim, to the set-apart ones who are in Ephesos, and true to Messiah יהושע
Douglas said:Same for Paul...Shaul.
Name used depends on context, Acts 13:9 notes two names were used by the apostle. Many people have more than one name or nickname, which are used by different groups of people. A "Robert" could be known as "Bobby" by family (who knew him as young child), "Bob" by High School students, and use middle name at work (to distinguish from other Bob's). In one day, "Robert" could answer to 3 different names in various conversations.
Douglas said:I would Love to click a "Transliteration" button at the top of the panel I am studying and have the language (if other than English) instantly turn into its native transliteration.
One"Transliteration" button is called "Display", already available in some Logos 4 Interlinear resources (display Inline language Manuscript and Transliteration):
Keep Smiling [:)]
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That's a good idea. Most of my suggestions are for the general crowd. However, I think this could be useful for beginner to the more advanced. Whether you would like to read a formal transliteration, or a more native one (could be determined by "default" selection in Program Settings). In-between the "Pronunciation addons" of Greek and soon to be Hebrew, and the "Learn to Use Biblical Greek & Hebrew" video series, this would bridge the "visual" interpretation "gap" Real-Time.George Somsel said:If you are interested in learning the languages, I think you are making it more difficult than it needs to be. I would suggest simply learning the alphabet / alef bet.
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K-S,
The 'name' transliterations were small examples of the idea. I was looking for more of a story-mode reading / context. The native tongue (or Formal, as mentioned in the last post) would account for any of the word variations.
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Douglas said:
The 'name' transliterations were small examples of the idea. I was looking for more of a story-mode reading / context. The native tongue (or Formal, as mentioned in the last post) would account for any of the word variations.
Please elaborate. A picture is worth a thousand words. Would like to see a mock-up of idea.
Transliteration is a way of rendering Greek and Hebrew letters using English letters because historically was less expensive to print books using mechanical presses with all English letters. For some Hebrew letters, different publishers used a variety of letter mapping schemes. For example, the first Hebrew letter, א Aleph (or Alef) has been transliterated as ' and ) since English does not have a letter whose sound corresponds to א pronunciation. Thankful for Hebrew with Heiser website => http://michaelsheiser.com/HWH.htm
English translation is an English interpretation of original language text (that may include transliteration: e.g. baptism).
Logos has a New Testament English translation pre-publication (from a different language) => http://www.logos.com/product/7369/sahidic-coptic-new-testament-in-englishDouglas said:For example, Yeshua instead of Jesus.
Curious about Yeshua vis Yehoshua' vis Joshua vis Immanuel (Εμμανουηλ) ?
ESV Study Bible for Matthew 1:1 includes: logosres:esvsb;ref=BibleESV.Mt1.1
Jesus (Gk. Iēsous) was the historical, everyday name, and is Yeshua‘/Yehoshua‘ (Joshua) in Hebrew, meaning “Yahweh saves” (Neh. 7:7; cf. Matt. 1:21).
Crossway Bibles. (2008). The ESV Study Bible (1820). Wheaton, IL: Crossway Bibles.
UBS Handbook on Matthew 1:21 includes: logosres:ubshbk61;ref=Bible.Mt1.21
She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus: the first of these clauses simply gives information, as RSV and TEV indicate, but the second clause is better rendered as an imperative: “and you are to name him Jesus” (NAB). Note GeCL, “she will have a son; you must name him Jesus”; and Brc, “she will have a son, and you must call him by the name Jesus.” She will bear a son can be translated fairly easily in most languages. “She will give birth to a son (or, baby boy)” is usually possible, or “The baby she will bear will be a boy.”
Except for the name Jesus, this sentence is a direct quotation from the Septuagint of Isaiah 7:14, which suggests that the name is in focus.
Newman, B. M., & Stine, P. C. (1992). A handbook on the Gospel of Matthew. UBS helps for translators; UBS handbook series (25). New York: United Bible Societies.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
What's a "native transliteration"?
MJ -
That's one where the spelling, use of lettering and pronunciation are identical to the original. [:)]
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K-S,
Yes, I am familiar with Yehoshua also. Kind of like Yahovah or Yehovah, vs. Jehovah because of the "J" sound. I think you alluded to an important point when you made reference to Mr. Heiser's website. With his professional background and expertise, and others at Logos, they could come up with an adequate translation, and proper appropriation for such differences. I think, Context, Subject, and Purpose of the verse would be the biggest indicators in the text. Besides from being a tremendous fun, reading the scriptures this way, it could be based on resource availability (feature only available with purchase of this resource). Logos could even produce multiple versions in this way based on certain changing of variables, and sell them as a bundle for study.0 -
Alabama,
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Douglas said:
K-S,
Yes, I am familiar with Yehoshua also. Kind of like Yahovah or Yehovah, vs. Jehovah because of the "J" sound. I think you alluded to an important point when you made reference to Mr. Heiser's website. With his professional background and expertise, and others at Logos, they could come up with an adequate translation, and proper appropriation for such differences. I think, Context, Subject, and Purpose of the verse would be the biggest indicators in the text. Besides from being a tremendous fun, reading the scriptures this way, it could be based on resource availability (feature only available with purchase of this resource). Logos could even produce multiple versions in this way based on certain changing of variables, and sell them as a bundle for study.Logos has a pre-publication with Discourse Analysis tagging for Old Testament => Lexham Discourse Hebrew Bible Bundle (6 vols.) still gathering interest, needs more orders to fund development. Lexham Discourse Greek New Testament is my # 1 Greek resource, praying for Hebrew companion.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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K-S,
Yes it is on my list too! Can't wait for it to be published
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K-S,
To clarify a little bit, I wanted to expound a little more on the example I gave you. It was not complete but one I found. To reiterate, this suggestion is not promoting a side by side in any case (unless the intended translation were to be brought in as a "turn on/off" inline feature all it's own), but a Continual reading setting. In my last post I mentioned having multiple "versions" being made available to cater to the varying variables, one of these could include a side by side like the one shown. Hebrew word pictures however, I think, would be an excellent addition to the in-line feature of the Display option.
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Observation: "The NET Bible" has many translation footnotes with word pictures.
Wonder about Logos sponsoring a "Word Pictures in the Old Testament" ? (similar to Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament).
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Absolutely! I really am in love with the blessing of this software, to think about what we have compared to the saints behind us is really breath taking. I think once this suggestion along with the word picture ideas are implemented, I will be of the utmost contentment. My Lord has done so much, I am just grateful that I am allowed such insight into His word.
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Douglas said:
Absolutely! I really am in love with the blessing of this software, to think about what we have compared to the saints behind us is really breath taking. I think once this suggestion along with the word picture ideas are implemented, I will be of the utmost contentment. My Lord has done so much, I am just grateful that I am allowed such insight into His word.
Is that a promise? If you are contented then I assume you won't be making scads of new suggestions, and I would support your suggestion.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Lol,
I had suspected that statement might draw a little attention from Forum Police Somsel
Seeing as how there are almost always rooms for improvement, I can't be for sure. However, these two rank pretty high on my list
Even though your initial request cannot be Guaranteed, you can offer exhortative and productive suggestion to improve or enhance that which is already good :0)
Sincerely,
Douglas
P.S. The Idea I think is a gem, you can Vote for it on those terms
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Douglas said:
I had suspected that statement might draw a little attention from Forum Police Somsel
Seeing as how there are almost always rooms for improvement, I can't be for sure. However, these two rank pretty high on my list
I hardly qualify as the forum police, but I do get tired of hearing suggestion after suggestion when you don't indicate what need your suggestion would fulfill with a question regarding "what do you think?" I think that if you want to make a suggestion you need to state why you think it would be helpful. I still don't know why you think your current suggestion would help some need which you perceive to exist.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Friend it seems as if most of your comments are more of the negative tone, unless you are trying to gather favor from someone for personal gratification. I ask that if you are feeling negative at the time of my posts that you simply overlook and not read them. That way you avoid any prevailing heartburn, and I retain a somewhat sound post.
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Douglas said:
Friend it seems as if most of your comments are more of the negative tone, unless you are trying to gather favor from someone for personal gratification. I ask that if you are feeling negative at the time of my posts that you simply overlook and not read them. That way you avoid any prevailing heartburn, and I retain a somewhat sound post.
If you're going to make suggestions which are about as useful as suggesting that when you log onto L4 flowers cascade down the screen, don't expect me to support your suggestion.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Come to think of it some do Recognize Jesus as the "Lily of the Valley", might add positive Program incinuations to it. Just kidding
Thanks for your comments.
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Douglas said:
Hebrew word pictures however, I think, would be an excellent addition to the in-line feature of the Display option.
Snippet from a different web site illustrating Hebrew word pictures (from link provided by Douglas):
Noticed Ancient Bible with Hebrew Word Pictures shows couple variations of Hebrew letters, wikipedia has more => http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_alphabet#Orthographic_variants
Wikipedia also has ancestral scripts and variants => http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Hebrew_alphabet#Ancestral_scripts_and_script_variants
Logos 4 transliteration in Lexham Hebrew Interlinear is right to left (under corresponding Hebrew word or lemma)
Lemma line shows Hebrew consonants. Manuscript line adds vowel point transliteration.
In Word 2010, found many Hebrew unicode fonts, but did not have an ancestral unicode font:
Wonder if Logos 4 could include Cardo (Hebrew unicode font) => http://www.scholarsfonts.net/cardofnt.html
Logos 4 has Text Comparison, which can show Dead Sea Scroll Differences:
While researching transliteration, found some resource suggestions for Logos:
Hebrew for the Rest of Us: Using Hebrew Tools without Mastering Biblical Hebrew
http://www.amazon.com/Hebrew-Rest-Us-Mastering-ebook/dp/B001FA0G8K/ref=tmm_kin_title_0?
The SBL Handbook of Style: For Ancient Near Eastern, Biblical, and Early Christian Studies
http://www.amazon.com/SBL-Handbook-Style-Biblical-Christian/dp/156563487X/ref=sr_1_1
Transliteration and Transcription of Hebrew. Offprint from Hebrew Union College Annual, volumes XL-XLI, 1969-1970
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Nice additions to this Post K-S! Very pleased
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