Why Vyrso is a very good thing

Like many of you, when I heard about Vyrso I was distinctly underwhelmed. The app did nothing my Logos app couldn't do. I have no particular interest in 'popular' Christian books, having the slightly cynical view that the more popular a Christian book is, the less valuable (and often the less Christian) it is. Nevertheless, I think this announcement is very significant not just for Logos as a company, but for each of us, too. Here's ten reasons why:

Vyrso books are better than Kindle and Nook books if you're not already committed to a platform through owning a dedicated device. They have pop-up Scripture references, and you can read them in a desktop application, and on biblia.com (I wouldn't be surprised to see a cut-down version of biblia arriving at vyrso.com in the near future).
Vyrso books are very cheap to produce. It's very likely they'll be automatically converted from existing e-books, with just a very minimal amount of tagging needed. No complex Akkadian, or even Greek/Hebrew. Probably very few Scripture references either.
The low cost of product potentially works both ways. I work for a small Christian publisher that doesn't publish reference books. We can't afford to get our books published in Logos - but if we have a ePub version of our book available, perhaps we could afford to publish with Vyrso.
There's a huge number of Christians who simply aren't going to pay $200-$300 for Bible Study software, but who would pay $10 for an e-book. In time that's a whole new bunch of people to market low-end Logos packages to (who'll be hooked partly by knowing all their Vyrso purchases are included free!).
There's a smaller number of Christians who'd like access to existing Logos resources on the move, without buying a Logos 4 base package. With Vyrso, they'll get it - more income for Logos, and more chance pre-pubs get made.
Vyrso will give Logos relationships with publishing partners they wouldn't otherwise have. Some of those publishers will be imprints of publishing groups that also produce reference books that we really want in Logos. If Vyrso goes well, the academic/reference imprints might sign up for Logos proper.
Even if 99% of the books produced for Vyrso are not for me, that still leaves 100 books I'll like.
Vyrso's pricing structure (permanent discounts on RRP) might put pressure on some over-priced Logos books (are you listening Zondervan and Baker?).
If Vyrso supports PBB, and Logos re-sells PBBs, we might find Vyrso users willing to buy books we've written/produced!
The fact of Vyrso reduces the dominance of Kindle. Kindle is a great device, but Amazon's aggressive pricing is bad for publishers (and ultimately for readers, too).

So, I'm excited by this opportunity, and see it as win-win-win-win for readers of popular books, for publishers, for Logos, and for Logos 4 customers.

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Comments

Bohuslav Wojnar

I can agree with all your 10 points Mark. Thanks for putting them together. [Y]

Robert Pavich

Mark,

I also agree with what you said...thanks for taking the time to sort it out.

Jack Caviness

I think this announcement is very significant not just for Logos as a company, but for each of us, too. Here's ten reasons why

Very interesting. Thank you for sharing.

TCBlack

Excellent points all around Mark.

Frank Sauer

The one area I would disagree is in the cost of the books in comparison to Kindle and Nook. Compare the books at the advertised 50% off at Vyrso to Nook Book pricing...

Also Nook has a dedicated Desktop application that allows you full access to all your purchases too. Not sure about Kindle, but both do have mobile apps with full access as well.

Hope it brings Logos new customers

Rev Chris

Yes, but...

Still nobody has commented on my previous post in a different thread about my concerns with the success of Vyrso. The initial books they have listed on their page (at 50% off) are still way over the Kindle prices. I see no way the general public is going to buy in to yet another ereader app, especially when they can get the same books at cheaper prices on the apps they are already familiar with. Perhaps pop-up scripture references are a plus that the other ereader apps don't have (as you stated above), but I don't see that as worth $3-5+ for every book I buy, especially when the point of those books is not to illuminate scripture but instead to provide a good read that may or may not be informed by some random scripture passage. Further, if the books on the promo page for Vyrso are their big promo books - meaning normal books offered later on will not be at "50% off", there is seriously no way they can compete. Who is going to be $30 for a book on Vyrso when the same book is $10 on Kindle? Not going to happen. Not if Vyrso is simply "another ereader app" in the marketplace.

I can see Vryso becoming a PBB marketplace - and that is great ... for us pre-existing Logos customers. But no way normally published books are going to stand a chance and no way there will be an influx of non-Logos customers into the business. Unless I'm missing something here.

Mark Barnes

The one area I would disagree is in the cost of the books in comparison to Kindle and Nook. Compare the books at the advertised 50% off at Vyrso to Nook Book pricing...

Agreed, but Bob's expressed elsewhere that he thinks they'll be much more competitive outside the 'best-seller' list.

Also Nook has a dedicated Desktop application that allows you full access to all your purchases too. Not sure about Kindle, but both do have mobile apps with full access as well.

Thanks for the clarification. As you say, both Nook and Kindle have Mac and PC apps. But neither allow you to read without installing software, or from non-supported devices (a la biblia.com) - though they do support more devices than Vyrso (including Android! [:)])

JT (alabama24)

Mark -

Great points. I especially agree with point 4 (the "Halo" effect). I think many people will be brought into the Logos fold, which benefits those of us already in. I am also very excited to be able to highlight & mark up my eBooks with Logos. Hopefully the iPad app will include those features too in the near future.

Justin

Mark Barnes

I can see Vryso becoming a PBB marketplace - and that is great ... for us pre-existing Logos customers. But no way normally published books are going to stand a chance and no way there will be an influx of non-Logos customers into the business. Unless I'm missing something here.

I think you are missing something - principally the all-important role of the publishers:

First, many publishers are very uneasy about Kindle, and will be very glad to see Amazon getting some competition, and will want to support that competition.
Second, some major Christian publishers are still too small to be heavily promoted by Amazon. Logos may be able to negotiate better deals with these publishers, and perhaps even undercut Amazon. These publishers may even promote Vyrso to their own customers through their website and mailing list.
Third, the discounts on Vyrso books are not intended to be introductory offers, but permanent discounts.
Fourth, they'll be some books that simply aren't available on the Kindle. If people wan't them, they'll have to get Vyrso. Once they're using it, they'll hopefully enjoy it and want more.
Finally, many Christian consumers will be glad of a store that sells
only Christian books. They'll like getting better recommendations and
more relevant emails. cbd.com hasn't gone out of business even though
sometimes it's more expensive than amazon. Likewise Apple still sell eBooks even though for most books they're more expensive than Amazon.

JT (alabama24)

The initial books they have listed on their page (at 50% off) are still way over the Kindle prices.

I compared EVERY book with Amazon last night. I guess I was bored. Most books were within $1.50 of the Amazon price, and with at least 4-5 books, Logos had the LOWER price. One book Amazon must be doing at a huge loss (they are selling it for less than $1). I bought the Donald Miller book last night. It was about $1 more than Amazon, however, I think $1 is a great price to be able to have the book in my Logos Library. I am not inclined to by "Christian Fiction." If I were, I would buy it at the cheapest price. Books by authors such as Francis Chan, Andy Stanley, John Maxwell, Dave Ramsey, etc. are ones that I would want in my Logos library. Perhaps I will end up doing a sermon series in the future and these books will benefit my study. I just wrote my final paper for my MDIV last month. I was very excited to find that some of my old textbooks, which I had added to my Logos Library, were pulled up with my search results. I hope that I can never buy a print book again!

Justin

JT (alabama24)

Mark -

What is the best way to locate these books when they are added to my library? I noticed that Logos is (Tagging the books?) as "Monograph." Would it not be more useful if they labeled them "trade book" or "vyrso?" What can I do so that I can pull these books up quickly?

Justin

John Fugh, Jr.

So, if I buy a book from Vyrso, will it appear in my logos library on my computer or will it appear in the logos app or just the vyrso app?

Tobias Lampert

It will appear in whatever Logos app you're using: Logos 4, Logos 4 Mac, Logos iPhone/iPad app, Vyrso app. I think there are also scripts for most of the Vyrso books to have them in Libronix.

Rev Chris

I compared EVERY book with Amazon last night. I guess I was bored. Most books were within $1.50 of the Amazon price, and with at least 4-5 books, Logos had the LOWER price. One book Amazon must be doing at a huge loss (they are selling it for less than $1). I bought the Donald Miller book last night. It was about $1 more than Amazon, however, I think $1 is a great price to be able to have the book in my Logos Library. I am not inclined to by "Christian Fiction." If I were, I would buy it at the cheapest price. Books by authors such as Francis Chan, Andy Stanley, John Maxwell, Dave Ramsey, etc. are ones that I would want in my Logos library. Perhaps I will end up doing a sermon series in the future and these books will benefit my study. I just wrote my final paper for my MDIV last month. I was very excited to find that some of my old textbooks, which I had added to my Logos Library, were pulled up with my search results. I hope that I can never buy a print book again!

Justin

How were you able to search for books? I can only see the 25 promo books on the vyrso website, and none of them were anywhere close to what I read in seminary, with the exception of the Bonhoeffer book (I didn't read that one, but read other biographies on him). If you're referring to books in the general Logos catalogue, that's great and all - but that's not where my concern is. I suppose if you're going to do a sermon series on one of these books, it *might* make sense to have it in your Logos library. Although frankly I'm not sold on this. But at any rate, Vyrsos doesn't seem to be advertised to pastors or serious studiers - that's what Logos is for. Vyrsos seems to be more for the general public (hence the pushing of Christian fiction). Maybe I'll be wrong and the general Christian public will come out in droves for this ... but until that happens I'm skeptical.

Rev Chris

I think you are missing something - principally the all-important role of the publishers:

First, many publishers are very uneasy about Kindle, and will be very glad to see Amazon getting some competition, and will want to support that competition.

Perhaps. But if customers are not willing to pay the high prices, publishers won't see Vyrsos as serious competition. The ebook market right now is competing on price, product catalogue and platform availability - all of which Amazon and B&N are winning hands down, and probably Amazon over B&N. Publishers aren't going to bail on Amazon and B&N when they make up such a large portion of their sales. It's no different with Walmart. For years suppliers have cried out about how much they hate doing business with Walmart because Walmart puts enormous price pressures on them. Yet the suppliers have an option - they can simply not sell to Walmart. But they do because to pull out would mean to give up a huge market share.

Second, some major Christian publishers are still too small to be heavily promoted by Amazon. Logos may be able to negotiate better deals with these publishers, and perhaps even undercut Amazon. These publishers may even promote Vyrso to their own customers through their website and mailing list.

If they can undercut Amazon then yes, Vyrsos stands a chance. This has yet to be seen, and if it does happen it will probably be on a small scale. I suspect an emerging issue for ebook retailers is brand loyalty built on product availability. People don't want to have 3 or 4 or 5 different ereader apps on their devices for their different books. So if Amazon has everything they need they will be less likely to go shopping elsewhere. This is why I think there seems to be so much support for Vyrsos in these forums - people already are using Logos app as an ereader and would prefer all their books to be contained within the same 'library'. Unfortunately, that doesn't bode well for people not already using Logos, which is who Vyrsos is supposed to be for.

Third, the discounts on Vyrso books are not intended to be introductory offers, but permanent discounts.

That's good news - although as I stated before the prices at discount are still more expensive than Amazon for many of the books.

Fourth, they'll be some books that simply aren't available on the Kindle. If people wan't them, they'll have to get Vyrso. Once they're using it, they'll hopefully enjoy it and want more.

As I stated in my original post, this seems to be the only real strategy at play - exclusivity contracts. If not de jure contracts then de facto. Either way, the lack of competition is not something to rejoice over as a consumer and the possible offering for such books will remain pretty small.

Finally, many Christian consumers will be glad of a store that sells
only Christian books. They'll like getting better recommendations and
more relevant emails. cbd.com hasn't gone out of business even though
sometimes it's more expensive than amazon. Likewise Apple still sell eBooks even though for most books they're more expensive than Amazon.

cbd.com has a loyal base, and they also offer some products at cheaper prices. If Vyrsos can find a way to undercut Amazon on books, then they stand a chance - but from what we see so far that's not really the case. Apple has a huge loyalty base so it's no suprise that they sell ebooks. Although many speculate that the upcoming July 1 rule-change has been designed specifically to get more ebook sales on iBooks, thereby implying that they are struggling in this area.

Patrick S.

It will appear in whatever Logos app you're using: Logos 4, Logos 4 Mac, Logos iPhone/iPad app, Vyrso app. I think there are also scripts for most of the Vyrso books to have them in Libronix.

That may not be a desirable thing, to have Vyrso purchased books appear in Logos 4, it depends on the book. Please see my post in this link...

http://community.logos.com/forums/p/38885/290589.aspx#290589

Logos needs to carefully think about this.

JT (alabama24)

Patrick -

I agree that it would be nice to be able to hide resources from LOGOS, but still be able to utilize them on the app. I don't want princesses clogging up my library either [:)]

On the mobile apps, however, it is fairly simple to sort the ebooks out from the Logos library. In your library, search for "ebook."

Patrick S.

On the mobile apps, however, it is fairly simple to sort the ebooks out from the Logos library. In your library, search for "ebook."

Ahhh — but you're an experienced and intelligent Logos user. How's the average Joe Blow going to know s/he has to type "ebook" in the search field? It would be good if Logos could, given the audience for the Vyrso application, put some sort of filter(s) in the UI of the Library tab. Something which will only show Vyrso titles and/or exclude Logos Bible website purchases/titles.

JT (alabama24)

Ahhh — but you're an experienced and intelligent Logos user.

Aww shucks. [:$] Nobody's called this Alabama boy "intelligent." [:)]

How's the average Joe Blow going to know s/he has to type "ebook" in the search field?

You are absolutely right. I agree. I don't think that we should have to use my method... I am just providing the advice so that others can benefit from it until a better solution is provided!

spitzerpl

Aww shucks. Nobody's called this Alabama boy "intelligent."

One month till I'm your neighbor in Mississippi. I can't wait! Not sure MS will know what to do with someone who has been tainted by New Jersey.