Wow! Check out the Medieval Preaching and Spirituality Collection in CP

The Medieval Preaching and Spirituality Collection (34 vols.) - works by or about the Desert Fathers, Boethius, Gregory the Great, Isidore of Seville, St. John of Damascus, St. Augustine, Hugh of St. Victor, Bernard of Clairvaux, Abelard & Heloise, Anthony of Padua, Thomas Aquinas, St. Bonaventure, Albert the Great, Richard Rolle, Catherine of Siena. All incredibly important people in the history of Christian spirituality.

Currently trending towards the low end of the bidding scale, which would be an exceedingly good value if it goes for that. About $2.35 per volume.

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DominicM

yes there are nice titles in here, but once again am concerned at Logos continuing trend of hoovering up $0.00 zero-cost Public Domain books, and releasing them as a "Collection" at a hefty markup..

I wish I had a book budget, but even if I had - am not going to pay "about $2.35 each or $80 the set" for public domain works like St John of Cross, and several others in this set here which I have already PB'd at no cost

IMO $15-20 for the set is a more realistic price

Martin Folley

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/290942#Comment_290942

The Medieval Preaching and Spirituality Collection (34 vols.) - works by or about the Desert Fathers, Boethius, Gregory the Great, Isidore of Seville, St. John of Damascus, St. Augustine, Hugh of St. Victor, Bernard of Clairvaux, Abelard & Heloise, Anthony of Padua, Thomas Aquinas, St. Bonaventure, Albert the Great, Richard Rolle, Catherine of Siena. All incredibly important people in the history of Christian spirituality.

Agreed. I would like the option to have them with Logos tagging

but once again am concerned at Logos continuing trend of hoovering up $0.00 zero-cost Public Domain books, and releasing them as a "Collection" at a hefty markup..

Agreed as well, but it is a free market that allows us to choose between the PD and the Logos tagged, I do not have to buy them

Currently trending towards the low end of the bidding scale,

This is where my concern resides ... it is at the bottom of the scale, $80 ... why does the scale bottom out at $80? That seems to remove the whole CP ethic of resources being produced at cost, where the cost is shared amongst those willing to pay it; and CP is a way of determining what that bottom payment prics is. Personally, I would prefer to bid about $40 but do not have that option.

This could, of course, be a mistake and that the wrong scale was published, but without that option this becomes an $80 pre-pub, fixed prices and waiting for sufficient interest.

Allen Browne

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/290953#Comment_290953

Currently trending towards the low end of the bidding scale,

This is where my concern resides ... it is at the bottom of the scale, $80 ... why does the scale bottom out at $80? That seems to remove the whole CP ethic of resources being produced at cost, where the cost is shared amongst those willing to pay it; and CP is a way of determining what that bottom payment prics is. Personally, I would prefer to bid about $40 but do not have that option.

At $80, I also choose to vote with my feet.

I've noticed that the option to bid lower does turn up later for some CP titles, but I think it's a mistake for Logos to market this way. Once I've decided not to bid on a resource, I certainly won't reconsider them all again later, so they lose bidders that way.

It's their business, so they can choose a business model that suits them, but I really don't think that making them initially expensive enhances what CP is about.

BriM

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/290953#Comment_290953

This is where my concern resides ... it is at the bottom of the scale, $80 ... why does the scale bottom out at $80? That seems to remove the whole CP ethic of resources being produced at cost, where the cost is shared amongst those willing to pay it; and CP is a way of determining what that bottom payment prics is. Personally, I would prefer to bid about $40 but do not have that option.

When I saw this offer, and noticed that the lowest bid possible was $80, it seemed out of line with all the other CP offers I've seen this year.

I assumed it was a mistake and haven't bid at that price, although I might if lower options were available.

Ronald Quick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/290981#Comment_290981

The price can go lower than $80 if enough bids are placed.

Tom

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/290981#Comment_290981

When I saw this offer, and noticed that the lowest bid possible was $80, it seemed out of line with all the other CP offers I've seen this year.

I assumed it was a mistake and haven't bid at that price, although I might if lower options were available.

I agree with you. It is a CP product, I also will not bid at 80!

Tom

Currently trending towards the low end of the bidding scale, which would be an exceedingly good value if it goes for that. About $2.35 per volume.

WOW it is priced too high![N] The only bids are at the bottom! [:O] Wonder way?[8-)] I like the collection, would like to see it priced as a normal CP (0-infinity)[:D]

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/290994#Comment_290994

This is why I love Logos SO MUCH. You just never know what they're going to do next!!

- Are they responding to George, where the price started so high, it could never come down?

- Are they trying to discourage CP which has had some really MAJOR savings recently?

- Do they seriously question John of Damascus, while including St Augustine in the SAME collection?

It's really hard to decide. But I signed up. I'm hopeful the price will move down, so I can get 'John' into my library safe and sound.

Mike Pettit

I am really exited by this collection and given that it will never have mass market appeal I think that people are being commercially unrealistic in expecting a price below $100 plus.

I would love this collection as it fills a huge hole in my library, these are the works that formed the foundation of modern theology and encompasses the thought of the universal Church for centuries.

Count me in at $150.

nicky crane

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/291020#Comment_291020

I'm not bidding at lowest price of $80. I'd be prepared to come in lower and have the option of raising my bid if I chose to.

toughski

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/291027#Comment_291027

time to visit and support a central depository of free Public Domain source files to create PBs myself.

tom

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/290953#Comment_290953

I would prefer to bid about $40 but do not have that option.

Same here, but this collection does fill a hole in my library.

Hapax Legomena

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/291048#Comment_291048

This looks like a great collection. I bid $80.00 but I sure hope it goes for less.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/290994#Comment_290994

The only bids are at the bottom!

Actually that's not accurate.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/291032#Comment_291032

central depository of free Public Domain source files to create PBs myself.

I think that the market for this depends on the quality you want which depends upon the use you make of the resources. This is certainly not the first CP to have a high minimum bid nor is the price per volume out of line with minimum bids on smaller packages. Just like the other packages, look at what the package is worthy to you, your priorities and finances and make an appropriate decision.

Harbey Santiago

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/290942#Comment_290942

yes there are nice titles in here, but once again am concerned at Logos continuing trend of hoovering up $0.00 zero-cost Public Domain books, and releasing them as a "Collection" at a hefty markup..

I wish I had a book budget, but even if I had - am not going to pay "about $2.35 each or $80 the set" for public domain works like St John of Cross, and several others in this set here which I have already PB'd at no cost

IMO $15-20 for the set is a more realistic price

I had the same uneasyness but then I started thinking that although they are in public domain I'm paying for the comvenience applying all of Logos search and linking features into these works.

One comment about the collection it self. I wich they would have included mu more of Abelard's works specialy "Sic et Non" of which I have never found an english translation.

"Viva Cristo Rey!!"

Deacon Harbey Santiago

Tom

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/291065#Comment_291065

The only bids are at the bottom!

Actually that's not accurate.

Alright,[:$] I know (and knew) that some bids were higher, would you settle for "It looks like most of the bids are at the bottom?[:)]

fgh

Now, this is a collection that makes me far more excited than Perseus!

The price isn't bad, but as many have said, the scale starts far too high up. And it was precisely the same with the 2 papal history collections, which is why they're pretty dead in the water. (Yes, they added some lower alternatives later, and I'm sure they will for this one as well, but, as someone above here pointed out: lots of people look once, find the lowest price too high, move on, and never come back. -- And even if they do come back to the CP overview page, there's no way to see that lower prices have been added without opening the actual product page, which very few will do a second time unless they really want it but just can't afford the first lowest price. Also, as we have seen many times, a too highly priced peak will discourage lots of people from bidding anything at all, so adding lower choices later doesn't help much. They must be there from the start.)

My thoughts are that either this is a rookie mistake due to Andrew's inexperience, or else there's someone behind the scenes deliberately trying to 'kill' Catholic CPs. I've never seen Evangelical/Protestant CPs priced like this. Hey, the Cambridge Bible is almost twice as big, and we got that for $50! And there were still bidding points below that. CP prices never start at $80, that I have seen -- except when they're Catholic, it seems. Considering that the Catholic customer base is likely still too small to get things into production by itself, Catholic CPs should start lower than Evangelical ones, in order to be able to draw as much support as possible from those who might be slightly curious but not interested enough to bid more than a small amount. Then we who really want them can bid higher to see if we're many enough and interested enough to get them into production faster that way.

(And, yes MJ, I know there are CPs with higher price/vol, but there is something with the total sum that makes people quite willing to pay $15 for a single volume, but not $2.35/vol for a collection if the total adds up to $80. It's weird, but it's a fact of life it seems.)

One comment about the collection it self. I wich they would have included mu more of Abelard's works specialy "Sic et Non" of which I have never found an english translation.

I too started thinking about all the works I wished they had included, then I realized what the title and the purpose of this collection was: preaching and preaching aids. I think we will see several more Medieval collections in the coming months, with other focuses. After all, the Middle Ages are what Andrew's specialized in, so he should be quite capable of putting them together.

Mike Childs

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/291099#Comment_291099

My thoughts are that either this is a rookie mistake due to Andrew's inexperience, or else there's someone behind the scenes deliberately trying to 'kill' Catholic CPs.

The price is too high for me. Would love to have it, but not at that price. The PB option makes more sense for me. My use for the books would be fulfilled with tagging I can do myself. Just reading them in Logos, doing a little searching, and calling up scripture references would do for me. Others may need a more professional job of tagging and linking, and the price may be fine.

However, I do not for one moment believe that "someone behind the scenes deliberately trying to kill Catholic CPs" is the case. That is insulting to Logos, and the rest of us, too. Unless you have real evidence of such prejudice, you should apologize. Nor is this pricing a rookie mistake. It may be a pricing experiment, but Logos is too professional a company to let a "rookie" make a mistake in pricing.

Logos is just like any other publisher in that they are out to maximize profits. Logos is a good company that provides a quality product and rightfully expects a profit. Thisis just a way to guarantee and maximize profit. They have every right to price as they choose, and I have every right not to buy. I take it that Logos and I are both exercising our rights.

Is Mebin

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/291099#Comment_291099

Then we who really want them can bid higher to see if we're many enough and interested enough to get them into production faster that way.

Hey FGH: I don't want to comment on most of your post, just this part...I'm actually agreeing with your intention, just not how you put it. Just because someone may be only slightly interested in a subject, does not mean they will only pay pennies for it. Personally I buy resources which I have no familiarity with just to become familiar with them...and I would likely pay more for those resources so my electronic library can be more complete. For example, I buy heaps of resources that have original language works, or different textual stuff...not that I can use them yet...but I do hope one day I can (sorry to those of another thread who think this type of investing is to say the least, unwise). I always bid for products that I think should be in L4...even if I have no personal use at the moment (as far as my budget allows). I'm not in ministry, and am unlikely to be...so I can buy what I want. This is my only hobby, and it saves so much space in our home if I were investing as much into hard copies!!!

Forgive me if this next comment sounds silly...but isn't the history of the Catholic church the history of us all? I mean...I bought the Orthodox Study Bible to learn more about the early Fathers, etc. I don't feel left out because I'm not Orthodox...just the same, I can read the literature from the middle ages as my own, even if I'm not Catholic. I mean, the Protestants hadn't even protested yet, had they[:D]...(please, no obsucre references necessary, I meant as a whole split away).

Anyway...I have been an Arminian (practically) for 20 years...,but only recently even heard this term. To me, Calvinism was just a flowery term (re: TULIP...lol). The fact that the Calvin v Arminius debate has been around for centuries and dominating many a theologian's career did not mean, for me anyhow, that I was even cognizent about the debate, or the ramifications of it. And when I did do some reading on it...I claimed to be a Molinist...(yay for the Catholic philiophers) just so I didn't have to go into the debate so much or be labelled an "Armenian", when for years I just was one (experientially)...who has the right to label me now was how I thought, especially since my coming to Christ was this way...because I recognize people come to Christ whetehr my theology is labelled or not, or indeed, whetehr it is wholly correct or not. Catholics have come to Christ for a couple of thousand years...without my theology...and for the most part, without even access to the Scriptures!!!

I guess what I was trying to say...mmmm...being careful here....you make it sound like "Catholics" are a minority group (here on logos)...when really, especially in this more academic climate, we just maybe closer to fulfilling Christ's prayer (that we may be one) than you think...at least in heart!!! [;)]

BillS

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/290981#Comment_290981

I ...haven't bid at that price, although I might if lower options were available.

[Y] +1

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/291015#Comment_291015

Do they seriously question John of Damascus, while including St Augustine in the SAME collection?

Denise, I don't follow you here. What are you trying to say?

Floyd Johnson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/291137#Comment_291137

I ...haven't bid at that price, although I might if lower options were available.

+1

[Y]

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/291081#Comment_291081

would you settle for "It looks like most of the bids are at the bottom?

Definitely.[:)]

tom

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/291099#Comment_291099

I've never seen Evangelical/Protestant CPs priced like this. Hey, the Cambridge Bible is almost twice as big, and we got that for $50! And there were still bidding points below that. CP prices never start at $80, that I have seen -- except when they're Catholic, it seems.

I am not sure if all of the RC packages started higher, but it does seems like they do.

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/291106#Comment_291106

Nor is this pricing a rookie mistake. It may be a pricing experiment, but Logos is too professional a company to let a "rookie" make a mistake in pricing.

(...) Thisis just a way to guarantee and maximize profit.

a) It doesn't make much sense to do "pricing experiments" in CP. They get the same amount of money whether many people pay little or few people pay much. And if they simply wanted $80 for some reason, they would have put it directly on prepub instead.

b) A price that's too high for the resource to make it into production doesn't give them any profit at all; it looses them the money they've already invested in getting it this far.

c) If it had been deliberate, they would hardly have added lower bid alternatives almost directly, which they did for the earlier two, and presumably will do for this one as well, once the weekend is over.

d) Three Catholic "pricing experiments" in short time, but no Evangelical?

e) Too professional to let rookies do mistakes? It happens all the time. It's only a day since the Vice President was on the forums apologizing to a displeased customer and explaining that expanding unfortunately means having new staff that haven't yet been sufficiently "indoctrinated" (his word) in the Logos way of doing things. If you give people responsibility, they sometimes do mistakes. The only way of avoiding that is to hang over their shoulders all the time.

f) I didn't accuse Logos of anything, so I see no reason to apologize to them.

g) Have you missed all the threads claiming Catholics aren't Christians, and are going straight to hell? (Count yourself blessed if you have!) There are plenty of Logos customers that are mad as hell that Logos is selling a single Catholic book. There are quite a few forum threads, and Logos has received quite a few e-mails, on the theme of 'you're selling your soul to the devil'. It would be naive to exclude even the possibility that such feelings may exist also among Logos staff members -- especially since they're forbidden by law to ask about employees' religious beliefs, and especially since I have myself seen forum posts by Logos staff members that seemed more than a little anti-Catholic. Why do you think they've hardly sold a single Catholic book until recently? Because Catholicism is such a tiny fraction of Christendom that it's impossible to make a profit from it?

My guess -- which may of course be totally wrong (and if so, I do apologize to him) -- is that Andrew, being a medieval historian himself, simply assumed that others would put as much value on these books as he do. Or maybe rather that he didn't realize quite how much lower value others would put on them.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/291136#Comment_291136

I guess what I was trying to say...mmmm...being careful here....you make it sound like "Catholics" are a minority group (here on logos)...when really, especially in this more academic climate, we just maybe closer to fulfilling Christ's prayer (that we may be one) than you think...at least in heart!!!

Is, you are right, of course. But if you think American politics can make us look cantankerous - remember that it is the extremes that drive that image. We sometimes are even worse when the topic is religion.

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/291136#Comment_291136

isn't the history of the Catholic church the history of us all?

In my view: certainly (well, with the obvious exceptions for the Eastern Christians) -- but a large segment of Logos' customers sees it the opposite way. To them Christian history is the history of small groups outside, or only just inside, the Catholic Church, while the history of the Catholic Church is the history of antichrist.

Personally I buy resources which I have no familiarity with just to become familiar with them...and I would likely pay more for those resources so my electronic library can be more complete.

Glad you do! But for the majority of Logos' customer base that is not the norm, for financial and/or doctrinal reasons. So the only way to tempt them to get on board is with a low enough price. Which is a good thing for me as well: I too get the lower price, plus I get to see good books in the hands of more people. I only want a higher price if a) I can afford it myself, and b) the higher price will move an important resource into production considerably faster.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/291106#Comment_291106

There's a certain cost to bringing something like this to production, and they have to get enough bids to pass that 100% mark before they can justify doing it. The range of possible bidding prices does appear to be "too high" for what we expect on CPs, but it also means perhaps they are hoping it will get into production sooner, with fewer bidders. Many of us remember CPs that took a couple of years to gain enough momentum to go into production. Maybe this one is such an important collection that they've anticipated the demand a bit and started working on it in spite of not having the bids in yet (there's precedent for that, I believe). Maybe if they see that the peak is forming at $80 they will lower the range. I think there's precedent for that too. I'd encourage people who are interested to bid $80 (not higher) to keep that peak going up higher and higher, as that's the most likely scenario for the price going lower, and the product going into production sooner.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/291139#Comment_291139

MJ ... regarding John of Damascus (vs St Augustine), I was going back to book 'the Jesus Wars', one of whose theses was that the theological battle concerning the nature of Christ eventually alienated the east from the west, resulting in Mohammad being viewed as actually supportive to the Christian east (and thus its eventual demise).

Where St Augustine represented much of the future, John of Damascus was presumably the final 'nail' in the east. Apparently he early on regarded Islam as a form of Christian heresy (not implying support for the above thesis).

However, my own interest in John was his update of Epiphanius (of course this collection involves his discussion of images, for which he's probably more famous).

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/291180#Comment_291180

but it also means perhaps they are hoping it will get into production sooner, with fewer bidders

That's my take as well Rosie especially since they have "rushed" some Catholic resources through as they were going into the Catholic packages.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/291181#Comment_291181

I was going back to book 'the Jesus Wars',

Ah, yes, I always immediately think of the iconclast wars ..

Is Mebin

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/291158#Comment_291158

Christian history is the history of small groups outside, or only just inside, the Catholic Church, while the history of the Catholic Church is the history of antichrist.

I wonder if those people preach from 1 Peter...I mean, wasn't Peter the first Pope...was he the first anti-Christ. Admittedly, I know very little regarding Catholicism....but I can think of some fine Catholic scholars who have added to my knowledge, and therefore faith in our Lord Jesus Christ (eg. Fitzmyer, John J Collins, Vanderkam - I think they are...could be wrong). Even though I am a Pentecostal (I believe even that term evokes different extremes) I am thankful to anyone who teaches me more about the risen Saviour!!! No matter what division of Christendom they belong or to what doctrine they prescribe to.

A while back I went through a divorce...so I started attending a very fundamental style independent baptist fellowship...you know, the KJV onlyers!!! And they really believed what they preached...to the point that converting Christians to using KJV was up there with Salvation. Anyhow, they brought up the point that most of the church history we have been told was "Catholic" church history...then suggested I read "Trail of Blood", a booklet proving their spiritual lineage back to NT times. Even though I disagreed with most of what they taught (even doctrinally)...I was introduced to textual criticism...and I am still reading material today on this topic...so I thank them at least for this discovery.

The lesson I learned: Don't throw the baby out with the bath water!!!

I don't personally believe a lot of what many churches teach....but I am determined to glean from as many brothers and sisters in Christ (and they are) as possible! So thank you to all L4 Catholic users...and Orthodox...and Evangelicals...and whatever else we label each other....thank you for teaching me more about Christ through L4 forums,etc., and thank you for being brothers and sisters in Christ.

I also like reading about the history of revivals...and one thing I believe is true of any move of God....He (God) does not respect our denominations!!! He will move where He wills! Maybe this is the generation that will know no denomination....here's hoping!!! Church membership should never be more stringent than being members of Christ's body!!!

Is Mebin

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/291149#Comment_291149

it is the extremes that drive that image

AND

even worse when the topic is religion

Yes, MJ, extremism has marred many religions. And I think it is a fair judgement that the US are extreme in many respects. Somewhere in amogst them all are those who worship in spirit and in truth...lol! I am sure they are scattered throughout the churches, home groups, and indeed...wherever Christ would have them!!!

God bless MJ[A]

Brother Mark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/291141#Comment_291141

I ...haven't bid at that price, although I might if lower options were available.

+1

[Y] Yes, even after reading all the discussion that followed...

Ted Hans

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/291099#Comment_291099

Fgh, I must say your comments are very unhelpful. I am not sure what you are trying to achieve by your comments but going down this road will end up being non productive.

Bruce Roth

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/291307#Comment_291307

Looks like they lowered the starting price. I thought I saw it at $30 this morning and now it is sitting at a starting price of $50.

Floyd Johnson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/291315#Comment_291315

Looks like they lowered the starting price. I thought I saw it at $30 this morning and now it is sitting at a starting price of $50.

I bid $50 - but am unlikely to purchase at that price. I would expect to purchase at a price of $30.

Rod Bergen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/291106#Comment_291106

I am also in at $50 but unsure if I will purchase at that price. I am happy to add these materials to my library at a reasonable (i.e. "cheap") price but wouldn't pay a great deal for them as I am not sure whether I will use them.

Assume that it is Logos that sets the minimum bid, although it should be allowed to be set by the community to be properly a "community bid".

BillS

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/291316#Comment_291316

I bid $50 - but am unlikely to purchase at that price. I would expect to purchase at a price of $30.

Me, too... but am in at $50.

Wild Eagle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/291432#Comment_291432

Moved bid to $50. Logos tricked, by giving the lowest $80 before

Brother Mark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/291446#Comment_291446

I hovered over the $50 for a looooong time. then kept reading this, "Click on the highest price you'd pay. If the final price is lower, that's what you'll pay." I might actually pay $50 for the collection, and I appreciate the Logos staff lowering the opening bid from $80 to $50, But I still think this is too high for a starting bid. I'm going to adopt a wait n see approach for now.

tom

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/291446#Comment_291446

Moved bid to $50. Logos tricked, by giving the lowest $80 before

same here

Ronald Quick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/291487#Comment_291487

I'm in at $80 just because that was the lowest possible bid - now that it is lower I hope to get it for less.

Here is the link.

http://www.logos.com/product/15152/the-medieval-preaching-and-spirituality-collection

Ronald Quick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/291518#Comment_291518

At $50 it would be 1.47 per volume.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/291521#Comment_291521

Here's a comparison from the latest 15 community pricing: