Passage Guide is a GREAT DISAPPIONTMENT

Whyndell,

Can you be specific?

What specifically was something that was in v3 that is now not, or just not as good in v4?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/29450#Comment_29450

You cannot save a workspace, you can not set properties to include only what "YOU NEED" in your study, the journals have lost their own collection setup, whan you search a passage in PG with a collection it is worse than without it, all the "WORTHLESS" bell and whistle material you have to cull out (sermon.com, media, etc.)- MAN I could go on all day.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/29455#Comment_29455

Whyndell,

that's a lot of hype and low on specifics brother....

If you have a specific task....then ask....but your not only wrong about what you can or cannot do in v4...your not being specific like I asked...

return to the version 3 format.

No one is stopping you from requesting a refund and returning to L3. You couldn't pay me to go back to 3. I can save these guides, I can combine Exegetical and Passage guides. I can mark my commentaries as favorites, add notes, and remove stuff I don't want. Yes, there are some things they can improve.

Remain a threeite all you want. It won't hurt my feelings :-)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/29458#Comment_29458

Ahh! a lot of hype

ok, go to your PG and set the properties to "favorite coom's" to do a search- oh you can't.

it's not in v4- you have to create a collection, then when you search a passage it brings up a list where that verse is mentioned in every comm in your collection.

Go to "properties" under collections and enable journals, theology, etc. - you can't not there.

But thats ok I understand where a lot of you die on the sword Logos supporters are coming from.

I upgraded to v4 "my mistake" but I still have version 3 and will use it.

And as far as hype- it has not been on my end Robert,.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/29462#Comment_29462

Ahh! as usual the Logos Gestapo show up- mind your own buisness or shut down the forums.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/29464#Comment_29464

Dear Whine-dell. Perhaps E-Sword is calling your name? Just asking.

If you must use terms like "Logos Gestapo" then, as someone who is in no way connected to Logos, I would humble ask that you take that kind of attitude elsewhere!

Thanks!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/29463#Comment_29463

So your beef is that things aren't done EXACTLY AS THEY WERE in v3?

Brother, nobody is arguing that point....

If you have a sincere question; then ask...workspaces? Yes they're there...and easier that v3.

Enabling collections in a PG? Yes....very easy...and more flexible too....

If you just want to gripe...fine...if you want to see this stuff in action, I'd be glad to show you a video of how easy it is...

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/29455#Comment_29455

You cannot save a workspace,

False. Workspaces are now Layouts. You can save them till you blue in the face. You can save multi monitor setups even.

you can not set properties to include only what "YOU NEED" in your study,

I'm not sure exactly what properties you are referring to. It is true user control has been limited in some areas. I am glad for this. Less time having to set everything up and maintain it.

the journals have lost their own collection setup,

So make a new one. Its easy. Open collection. click new. Name it Journals. type "type:journal" in the rule box. Close it. Your done. But if you want to manually move them over v3 style and keep them updated in the future, be my guest.

whan you search a passage in PG with a collection it is worse than without it,

collection addition to the PG was a late addition during the beta program. I'm not sure what they have in mind here, but I would certainly say if you don't want it in, don't add it.

all the "WORTHLESS" bell and whistle material you have to cull out (sermon.com, media, etc.)- MAN I could go on all day.

sermoncentral.com was in 3. you had to cut it out there too. create a My Passage Guide template without it and you will never have to look at it again. Same for anything else you don't want.

Todd Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/29455#Comment_29455

You cannot save a workspace

You can name a layout (new name for workspace) in the layout menu. The label ("Snapshot | <time>") is an editable text field. And then that layout is always available to you by selecting it from the menu. Also, if you turn off the homepage from showing at startup, then your previous layout is automatically loaded.

you can not set properties to include only what "YOU NEED" in your study

Not sure what this is referring to...oh maybe PG...see below

the journals have lost their own collection

Resources have a built-in "series" property now (including journals) which tells what series a resource is part of. (If it is part of a series) It is available by default anywhere a collection can be selected. Just scroll down until you find the one you want:

whan you search a passage in PG with a collection it is worse than without it

Why? Don't use a collection for searching commentaries. Prioritize your commentaries and use the commentary section. Use the collection for searching things like Journals and Theology collections.

all the "WORTHLESS" bell and whistle material you have to cull out (sermon.com, media, etc.)

Making a custom Passage Guide is easy. And if you name it "My Passage Guide" it will be used when you start from the home page.

Here's my custom passage guide with just three sections: Commentaries, collection (set to Westminster Theological Journal), and interesting words. What's wrong with it?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/29465#Comment_29465

Yes we mustn't dissent- just smile and say the World is good and beautiful, get real.

By the way read Phil's post.

My discussion is about a non-entity a program not persons, til he got personal.

And look at your post Mr. Piety!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/29469#Comment_29469

Whine-dell: "MAN I could go on all day."

Please don't.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/29469#Comment_29469

Whyndell,
I made a small video of the procedure for making a custom passage guide and a layout...

this looks pretty simple to me....how about you check it out and see if this doesn't help some?

http://www.screencast.com/users/rpavich123/folders/Jing/media/9ed421e6-dd6d-4d9b-b045-7bc2468f307a

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/29472#Comment_29472

Robert,

Great video but it travels really fast! I am watching it and my eyes bug out at what I am seeing.

Thanks for your constructive post!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/29476#Comment_29476

Randy,

it's hard in that the video isn't as smooth as the program...it's weird....

I was hoping it got the message across that collections are easy to incorporate into a custom pg and that layouts are painless....

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/29487#Comment_29487

Robert--yes the video was helpful. Even if it went by quickly it clearly opens the "hood" and reveals the power under the deceptively elegant interface of Logos!

Thanks

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/29490#Comment_29490

Whether one agrees or disagrees with Whyndell's approach, surely it can't be denied that the searching of collections in custom guides is deficient.

It currently uses the Ranked search result whereas it should surely use the "By Book" search result. Further, such search results need to be presented in a collapsible fashion.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/29518#Comment_29518

Damian...

No...nobody is arguing your points...we agree (at least I do) but read Whyndell's actual post and his gripes....they were not parallel to your points at all..

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/29521#Comment_29521

Robert,

That's what I read in this statement:

"it's not in v4- you have to create a collection, then when you search a passage it brings up a list where that verse is mentioned in every comm in your collection."

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/29525#Comment_29525

Damian...

got it...I got stumped by the prior rhetoric...

Sorry for the confusion...

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/29469#Comment_29469

Yes we mustn't dissent- just smile and say the World is good and beautiful, get real.

By the way read Phil's post.

My discussion is about a non-entity a program not persons, til he got personal.

And look at your post Mr. Piety!

When you state in your original post that to like Logos 4 is being a Logosite that is personal. It is stating that the reason I like 4 is because I mindlessly follow Logos. You couldn't be more wrong. I like Logos 4 because I like Logos 4. It is sincere, tested with 8 weeks, and I invested $300 into it knowing what I was getting and not needing to pay for the extras that come with a Logos package because that was given in the Beta.

If you do not want innovation go pick up a book. You are in the realm of software and things will change. If Logos made everything in Logos 4 work like it did in Logos 3 it would be Logos 3.5, Not Logos 4. I hate using the term, but I believe it applies. I find it arrogant for you to assume that because you can't open up a program and find how you want to do things in 5 minutes that it must not be there. No, Logos 4 was not specifically talored for you and you will need to invest a little bit of time learning some of the new ways rather then expecting L4 to work like L3. If Logos made L4 import everything from L3 they would be making it a slave to the way L3 did things. Most of the points you championed as the chief proofs that L4 is inferior are invalid and based off of false assumptions.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/29528#Comment_29528

Robert,

I understand - but (imho) we need sometimes to read beyond the emotion and there can be real issues underlying them...

Kevin A. Purcell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/29530#Comment_29530

I think we all need to step back, take a breath, seek the Lord and ask Him to control our spirits here.

Whyndell, I feel your pain. Upgrading to v. 4 has been a struggle for me too. I was a beta tester and I am definitely not a "logosite" and have most definitely not drunk the coolaid. You can read my review of the iPhone app on my web site to find that out. I will also share fare criticisms in my CCmag review.

But let me say this. If you have only used it for a couple of days, before rejecting it outright ask the helpful users here who do love the program how to do what you used to do and loved doing in v. 3 and most of it can be found in v. 4 in a new way. There are some things missing and I think it was a mistake to ship without those. But they are coming. For a detailed list go to http://www.logos.com/4/missingfeatures. it also shows when they will come.

sorry you were insulted by so many here, but I think they were quickly offended by the term logosite. But if you love a product why not embrase the name. I wonder how many of us would have been yelling in Antioch in the 1st century "you can't call me a Christian".

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/29537#Comment_29537

Damian,

true; brother...

I hated to see whyndell leave on that note....his issues were so easily solved...

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/29530#Comment_29530

Whyndell,

I just read your other post about not reading these forums anymore. I dislike that this conversation has taken the course that it has and in case you do come back to read this I would just like to say that I accept the fact that you are dissatisfied with Logos 4 and I understand that there are legit reasons for that dissatisfaction. I can only ask that you would accept the fact that I am very pleased with Logos 4 and there are legit reasons for that pleasure. I hope in the future as the program is further refined you will come back to it and find it as useful as I do.

Phil

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/29540#Comment_29540

sorry you were insulted by so many here, but I think they were quickly offended by the term logosite. But if you love a product why not embrase the name. I wonder how many of us would have been yelling in Antioch in the 1st century "you can't call me a Christian".

If i remember correctly before Whyndell used the term "logosite" Phil wrote " Remain a threeite all you want. It won't hurt my feelings :-)" he was responding to this.

Ted

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/29554#Comment_29554

sorry you were insulted by so many here, but I think they were quickly offended by the term logosite. But if you love a product why not embrase the name. I wonder how many of us would have been yelling in Antioch in the 1st century "you can't call me a Christian".

If i remember correctly before Whyndell used the term "logosite" Phil wrote " Remain a threeite all you want. It won't hurt my feelings :-)" he was responding to this.

Ted

It doesn't really matter the order. It got out of hand and I think..well I can only speak for myself but my emotions got a way from me. However my reference to threeite was a response to his orignal posting's mention of logosite. It was only meant to convey that we both have our preferences.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/29557#Comment_29557

. It was only meant to convey

I'm sure there was more there at the time and for that I apologize.

Kevin A. Purcell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/29554#Comment_29554

If i remember correctly before Whyndell used the term "logosite" Phil wrote " Remain a threeite all you want. It won't hurt my feelings :-)" he was responding to this.

fortunately we don't have to remember. go look at the first post in the thread.

BTW in case anyone is offended by my statement about using the term Christian it was meant in jest and not a judgment. Sorry if I violated the spirit of my own plea.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/29564#Comment_29564

fortunately we don't have to remember. go look at the first post in the thread.

Yes you are right Kevin, my mistake.

Really we should not read frustration as personal criticism to Logos. We have had 8 weeks of Beta testing to get use to the product and how it functions. I do know a lot of frustration was shown during the Beta stage. Those who were not involve in the process are not use to the new format. Let's just respond to their frustration and inform then actually V4 can do what they think it can't do.

Ted

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/29557#Comment_29557

It doesn't really matter the order. It got out of hand and I think..well I can only speak for myself but my emotions got a way from me. However my reference to threeite was a response to his orignal posting's mention of logosite. It was only meant to convey that we both have our preferences.

Thanks Phil for your response & most of what i know of V4 has come from you,Robert,Dave and Todd much appreciated.

Yes, to correct myself he did mention logosite before you mentioned threeite.

Ted

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/29586#Comment_29586

Ted,

I agree but the issue is this:

Tell me if you can see the difference:

Hi...I'm very frustrated! I can't seem to make my passage guide use my collections! I'm really getting frustrated ...help!!

Logos sucks! This was a huge mistake! What a piece of crap they sold us....!

This won't do even the most rudimentary bible study stuff!! I QUIT!!!

now...which of these did Whyndell's post resemble?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/29610#Comment_29610

Can we please leave this to die?

We all express ourselves in inappropriate ways at different times...

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/29610#Comment_29610

Ted,

I agree but the issue is this:

Tell me if you can see the difference:

Hi...I'm very frustrated! I can't seem to make my passage guide use my collections! I'm really getting frustrated ...help!!

OR

Logos sucks! This was a huge mistake! What a piece of crap they sold us....!

This won't do even the most rudimentary bible study stuff!! I QUIT!!!

now...which of these did Whyndell's post resemble?

Robert,Robert people say things when they are fustrated but that does not justify them in saying it! Do you remember during the Beta stage one poster wrote "Logos 4 created by Americans for Americans. Another poster " Bob travel out more rather than stay in America". Yet another "This software is useless more indexing". I could go on but do you hear them anymore, no. Of course the ideal is what you have mentioned but Robert have you forgotten the strong words during the Beta stage? All i am saying is even when posters are not gracious to Logos let us be gracious. I am with you on manners, no disagreement from me.

Ted

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/29636#Comment_29636

Ted,

glad you picked one of my more unedifying moments to place in the public eye - one that in that very thread I said soon after I wish that I had not written.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/29645#Comment_29645

Ted,

glad you picked one of my more unedifying moments to place in the public eye - one that in that very thread I said soon after I wish that I had not written.

Damian i did not mention you by name, you did! Well, sorry all the same it was not my intention to bring that up but to diffuse the situation. Take my comments in the spirit it was intended.

Every Blessing.

Ted

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/29650#Comment_29650

Ted,

If I was angry or offended, I would have expressed myself differently. And I know that I named myself (though I'm not saying which post).

Nevertheless, every time I saw the thread which I started with it's dreadful subject heading come up for the next week or so, I cringed.

I've just cringed again

I believe that my underlying issues at that stage were serious and needed to be addressed - I communicated it in a perfectly awful way.

Maybe that's why I'm more sympathetic to some of those struggling with 4.0.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/29659#Comment_29659

Nevertheless, every time I saw the thread which I started with it's dreadful subject heading come up for the next week or so, I cringed.

I sympathize with that. In fact, I do not view this thread as my shining moment and cringe every time I see it's title. So I'm all for your previous post about letting it die :-)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/29659#Comment_29659

Ted,

If I was angry or offended, I would have expressed myself differently. And I know that I named myself (though I'm not saying which post).

Nevertheless, every time I saw the thread which I started with it's dreadful subject heading come up for the next week or so, I cringed.

I've just cringed again

I believe that my underlying issues at that stage were serious and needed to be addressed - I communicated it in a perfectly awful way.

Maybe that's why I'm more sympathetic to some of those struggling with 4.0.

Thanks brother for your graciousness.

I believe that my underlying issues at that stage were serious and needed to be addressed - I communicated it in a perfectly awful way.

Maybe that's why I'm more sympathetic to some of those struggling with 4.0.

I also did say things which i should not have & like you that is why i am more sympathetic with those having a hard time with V4. Thanks for your kind response.

Ted

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/29530#Comment_29530

Philip said:"If you do not want innovation go pick up a book. You are in the realm
of software and things will change. If Logos made everything in Logos 4
work like it did in Logos 3 it would be Logos 3.5, Not Logos 4. I hate
using the term, but I believe it applies. I find it arrogant for you to
assume that because you can't open up a program and find how you want
to do things in 5 minutes that it must not be there. No, Logos 4 was
not specifically talored for you and you will need to invest a little
bit of time learning some of the new ways rather then expecting L4 to
work like L3. If Logos made L4 import everything from L3 they would be
making it a slave to the way L3 did things. Most of the points you
championed as the chief proofs that L4 is inferior are invalid and
based off of false assumptions."

IMO they should have kept the positives of V3 very similar to V4 (if it ain't broke why break it?) I have and am using V4, tring to find as many video examples as I can and trying to figure out how to use stuff, but am finding it VERY difficult myself. While they have some/many of the positive features of V3 in some form or another it is very confusing trying to figure out where they are and how they function.

IMO they should GIVE the guides (that will have to be bought) with every base package. Mass confusion doesn't help with word of mouth advertising. I was in the process of getting some pastor friends on board with Logos/Libronix starting a couple of weeks ago. (showing them the bells and whistles of V3) but have now told them it would be a good idea to wait 3-6 months before purchasing the program. I'll work on it and then when I'm comfortable handling the program I'll try and get some of my pastor friends on board.

I'm confidient that I will come around to liking V4 (mass confusion and frustration currently) but my initial impression (3 days now) is not all that positive. This is mainly due to the lack of detailed how-to easy to follow and understand instructions of how to do all the GREAT things V3 did in V4.

I'm finding it very difficult to understand why they changed so many of the great things that V3 or at least made it frustraitingly difficult to find out how to do it in V4.

That all being said. I had some gripes posted, and got a postive personal response fromt he CEO of Logos. What other company in the WORLD would do that? I have confidence in the company, but confidence in V4 has a ways to go.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/29688#Comment_29688

I'm finding it very difficult to understand why they changed so many of the great things that V3 or at least made it frustraitingly difficult to find out how to do it in V4.

Not knowing exactly the function of 3 your trying to replicate I'll use collections as an example, and I think I might have above. Collections are drastically different from V3. Logos could have made it possible to import collections from 4 into 3, but to do so would force 4 to accept some of the limitations of 3, or at least to bloat the software with code that will not be used much 2 years from now. After the initial switch has been made by most users from 3 to 4 the code becomes useless. so long as it was tied to the way 3 was done we would not be able to benefit from the advantages of dynamic collections. For new users, they will not realize what they are missing. They will come in, look at the help (at least in a future incarnation of it :-) and say, "oh, that's easy and really helpful." To a new user of Logos they may say "boy, I wish I could keep a list of verses. Hope they add it as a feature in the future." To Us 3 crossovers we're thinking "boy, where did verse lists go?"

I hope this gives a little more, and <humbled> better intentioned, explanation of what I had in mind.<still humbled>

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/29472#Comment_29472

Bro. Pavich, thank you for this video

http://www.screencast.com/users/rpavich123/folders/Jing/media/9ed421e6-dd6d-4d9b-b045-7bc2468f307a

Keep em coming, they are VERY helpfull to noobs like myself. Be nice to post a mass-collection of user videos somwhere. The logos tourital videos are helpful to a degree, but are not as indepth as I'd like. User customization was what has sold Logos/Lib in the past, knowing how to do it with V4 will boost my confidence in the program. TYTYTYTYTY!

Now give me more please! lol

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/29710#Comment_29710

Jeremiah..

then I will post more (better) ones this weekend..!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/29706#Comment_29706

To "love" somthing and then hear people gripe/complain about it is always difficult. (So no complaining about my wife [:P] )

Thank you for your post. Do you have any videos that you have made?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/29725#Comment_29725

Jeremiah...I have made many "off the cuff" videos without sound like you saw here..they are for specific questions....

They're are scattered around the forums...

I'll try and do a few good ones on the subjects that keep popping up and having them uploaded by the end of the weekend....

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/29688#Comment_29688

Users of V3 are going to be the MAIN sales-reps of V4 (esp. since retailers are now out of the picture) Keeping them happy should (and I think is) be a high priority.

Granted "you can't keep all the people happy all the time"

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/29728#Comment_29728

Bro. Pavich, I am filled with antisipation! [:D]

Jeffrey Mashaw

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/29728#Comment_29728

Jeremiah...I have made many "off the cuff" videos without sound like you saw here..they are for specific questions....

They're are scattered around the forums...

I think we need to start a user wiki/help where the advanced users could post stuff like videos and tutorials. I like forums, but it's hard to keep the relevent info together among all the useless info and chatter.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/29733#Comment_29733

Users of V3 are going to be the MAIN sales-reps of V4 (esp. since retailers are now out of the picture) Keeping them happy should (and I think is) be a high priority.

This is a good point that needs to be kept in mind.