I hate auto-note insert with highlight !!!!!!!!!!!!
This is the worst feature Logos has ever introduced. I highlight all sorts of stuff, but I dont need to note inserted in my active note file to tell me what i highlighted. It totally clutters up my note files. PLEASE REMOVE THIS, or make it invisible behind the scenes so it doesn't appear in my notes files
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TBH - I like it, but I would like it to stay, so maybe we could have a setting in "program settings" to filter them off to a hidden file for those like yourself who dont want to know about them, while for those of us who do, the active note file will continue to be populated.
Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have
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I too like this. I have said over and over and over agin that there are too many subsystem in L4 (notes, clippings, highlights, etc....), and that they all need to be rolled into one system.
The way the UI is setup for this is another story. Then again, I have a lot of issues when it comes to the UI & L4.
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I have found, if you make a note file I have called it "HiLiteOnly", just clicking on the tab is enough to tell the program to send the "offending" highlighter notes to it, I know its not what you want but may suffice as a stop gap/work around to avoid "poluting your notefile", you then just have to click on your main note file when you want to genuinely add to it.
EDIT: It will also make cleaning a resouce of highlights only rather than accidently deleting notes easier, as you can just delete the hilite notefile.. the more I think about it the more I like it.
Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have
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Another problem is that it auto-inserts the note for the highlight into whatever note file was last opened. So the net effect is that you have these useless notes inserted "randomly' inserted into various note files that have nothing to do with the topic you highlighted. If you could designate a default note file to be used just for highlighted notes that would be better.
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DominicM said:
I have found, if you make a note file I have called it "HiLiteOnly", just clicking on the tab is enough to tell the program to send the "offending" highlighter notes to it
Dominic - I am thinking that this always has to be open, or more accurately, has to be the last Note File active, for this to work. Which means (since i highlight a lot), that i always have to have this HiLite note file open and click in it before every highlight. It would be nice if we could set this as default somewhere.
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Wyn Laidig said:
PLEASE REMOVE THIS
I understand your concerns and they are valid, but removing it is not the solution. I find it very helpful when making observations about the text i.e. inductive study, to be able to write a note about what I am highlighting, and maybe even a question that I want to investigate further at a later time. I am very pleased to see this feature. I agree though with some of the issues you raise and these do need to be addressed, but this is a beta release so it should be expected that not everything is yet perfect....Logos sometimes put things like this out there in the beta so we can provide feedback and thus allowing them to fine tune it.
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yes, if you open it, only need to click in it once to set it as last active, you dont need to click on it again unless you open another notetfile.
Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have
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Wyn Laidig said:
It would be nice if we could set this as default somewhere.
[Y] For those who want simple highlight I agree this should be added.
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Andrew McKenzie said:
For those who want simple highlight I agree this should be added.I think I belong to these "simple highlighters". I highlight a lot, to give structure to the text, make the best arguments stand out etc. As I'm not into this first/second beta, since it seems to be a little buggy so far, I'm getting curious how the user experience changes with the new highlighting.
What I do so far, in reading a book resource: The mouse pointer is within the text (if not, clicked once to place it there) and I use the mouse wheel to scoll. When I want to highlight, I use the mouse pointer to select. Then I hit e.g Y to highlight yellow (have assigned three or four keys to highlightera) and go on. No need to move the mouse pointer to the menu are, click multiple times or whatever. This makes it very convenient to read and highlight.
What to do now in the beta? Do I have to wander around on the screen with the mouse, opening here, closing there?
Have joy in the Lord!
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I sometimes have around 15 note files open at the same time. When I use highlights, I would not want them to be in any of my normally open notes. I would need the option to set a default note file for each resource file; not one default option to store all of my highlights.
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Please see this post from Logos regarding the issue. It seems like they are either responding to the early feedback, or anticipated the issue before hand and will address it down the road.
http://community.logos.com/forums/p/39471/294825.aspx#294825
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Fred Chapman said:
Please see this post from Logos regarding the issue. It seems like they are either responding to the early feedback, or anticipated the issue before hand and will address it down the road.
http://community.logos.com/forums/p/39471/294825.aspx#294825
As it sounds, this solution will not work for me. I will need a default note file for each resource, not just one default note file to store all of the notes.
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tom collinge said:
As it sounds, this solution will not work for me. I will need a default note file for each resource, not just one default note file to store all of the notes.
Note that the suggested solution is for highlights only, not notes themselves, and is 'per palette.' While I wouldn't have a highlight file for each resource, it could be done by creating a new palette for each resource (which will probably bog down the palette display even more).
The solution is not about notes, but about highlighting. I suspect this specifically addresses the issue of highlighting keyboard short-cuts. The way note files work as a note-taking tool will not be affected by this proposal, as I read it.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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tom collinge said:
I have said over and over and over again that there are too many subsystem in L4 (notes, clippings, highlights, etc....), and that they all need to be rolled into one system.
Tom, next I expect you to utter the word "inheritance"[:)] Then you'll say something heretical like "Notes are notes whether or not some content is auto-generated (clippings); whether the link is fixed (in Guides), absent (Add Note), single (selection or highlight) or multiple (reference), whether the text marker is an icon at the start (reference) or potentially marks the entire text (selection or highlight).
How do I know this is heretical? 'Cause it makes notes a consistent, universal object. And universal is a synonym for catholic therefore this view of notes is heretical.[:P]
Or, if you prefer, from the behavior and performance I can't make heads or tails out of the current implementation. I swear it can't be properly encapsulated because it seems so chaotic - and applications I can't figure out drive me nuts.[*-)][D][N]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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[:P]MJ. Smith said:How do I know this is heretical? 'Cause it makes notes a consistent, universal object. And universal is a synonym for catholic therefore this view of notes is heretical.
Well, I do use clippings as notes so that I can tag them. I will highlight one word in a document, and send it to a clipping file. Then I would delete the word and write what I want in the clipping. Then I will update the tags as I see fit.
So, notes are notes whether or not some content is auto-generated (clippings); whether the link is fixed (in Guides), absent (Add Note), single (selection or highlight) or multiple (reference), whether the text marker is an icon at the start (reference) or potentially marks the entire text (selection or highlight).
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Wyn Laidig said:
I highlight all sorts of stuff, but I dont need to note inserted in my active note file to tell me what i highlighted.
Logos has a nasty habit of winning me over to features I had opposed. The more I think about and have seen others discuss this new approach, the more it has grown on me.
First the good news: as others have noted, there will be a feature to allow you to set a default notes file for highlights. I think most of us will use this feature rather than have highlights go into the last active note file.
Second, the strength: I can see how this approach makes a lot of sense for people using Logos to make highlights and notes for different classes. One person mentioned having highlights on a text for different classes, and he has different highlights on the same text for different classes. It had already been possible to selectively turn on and off various highlights based on the palate, but now indicators for both notes and highlights can be turned on and off together.
Related to this is a new feature Logos is putting together - sharing data. If a professor has marked up a set of text with highlights and notes and wants to only share those highlights and notes with a particular class (or if a student does this, or a Bible study leader, etc) the new approach makes it very easy to share highlights and notes together - putting together a note file for a particular study.
The strength of the new approach will probably not mean much to a lot of Logos users, but we will be able to select a default note file (or files?) for our highlights and continue using highlights as we always did. Meanwhile, those who could use the new features will get a huge boost.
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Chris Roberts said:
Logos has a nasty habit of winning me over to features I had opposed. The more I think about and have seen others discuss this new approach, the more it has grown on me.
I try to keep in mind that the one thing Logos is able to see pretty clearly while we look in a "foggy mirror" is where they are going and how they plan to get there. Before Jesus died on the Cross the whole idea of the cross sounded very much out of place to the disciples.But God knew where He was going with it all and what he wanted to accomplish.
It is good that we have commented strongly about what we have seen. It lets Logos evaluate where they see things going and all the features that they see themselves implementing in comparison to the comments we make. We just need to keep in mind that beta is beta and that, I believe, Logos has a track record of implementing features very well.
I am not a big fan of raw flower. I'm not crazy for raw eggs. I like chocolate chips but they would get old after a while. But when my wife puts all those things together and makes her outstanding cookies......ummmmm. Yummy.........
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Richard DeRuiter said:
Note that the suggested solution is for highlights only, not notes themselves, and is 'per palette.' While I wouldn't have a highlight file for each resource, it could be done by creating a new palette for each resource (which will probably bog down the palette display even more).
The solution is not about notes, but about highlighting. I suspect this specifically addresses the issue of highlighting keyboard short-cuts. The way note files work as a note-taking tool will not be affected by this proposal, as I read it.
Hello Richard,
We no longer have notes and highlights. What we have is notes/highlights. They are one in the same. I am coming to this issue differently because I mainly use notes and not highlights.
For me, palettes don't mean a thing for me. When I need to highlight something, I just pick something out of the blue. How I highlight something doesn't have any special meaning.
For me, what is in my notes does matter. All I am saying is that L4 should be able to remember which note/highlight file is related to which resource. Something that is very very very easy to do.
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tom collinge said:
When I need to highlight something, I just pick something out of the blue. How I highlight something doesn't have any special meaning.
That has been my pattern, but I may want to rethink this.
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Jack,Jack Caviness said:That has been my pattern, but I may want to rethink this.
I disagree. A computer program needs to work for the users. The users should not have to work for the computer program.
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tom collinge said:
We no longer have notes and highlights. What we have is notes/highlights. They are one in the same. I am coming to this issue differently because I mainly use notes and not highlights.
I understand this.
What I read in the post in the link above is that Logos is planning to allow us to create a note/highlight file that will be the default for highlights created via keyboard shortcuts. That default highlight note/highlight file will be dependent on the palette chosen in the keyboard shortcut.
This won't affect the way highlights or notes are applied via select/right-click. It's not even clear that we will be required to designate a default note/highlight file for such operations.
I also use notes a lot more than highlights. Since up till now I've not stored my highlights in one place (it's not been possible), I have no problem with them being stored in a "Highlighter Pens" note/highlight file (which is where they all went on the upgrade to 4.5b1). Making this the default for my CTRL-Y (for yellow highlighter pen), won't bother me at all (and makes a nice, easy to peruse collection of all the stuff I highlighted). I don't foresee any reason to keep these highlights attached to a particular note/highlight file I use for notes. In fact I'd not want the clutter of non-annotated highlights among my notes.
If you wish to keep your note files tied to resources, I don't see how this will get in the way of that. Notes will continue to need to be created via the right-click menu in a resource, which always gives us the option to select which note file to put it in (provided that file is either last used or open). This is how notes have worked in L4 up to this point, and I don't see that changing.
The only thing that changes with the above mentioned default file, is what happens when we use a keyboard shortcut to create a highlight.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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I really think I am going to like the auto-note insert. Too often I go back to a book see my old highlight and and wonder why I made the highlight. Have the ability to easily make a note of my thinking which will be very helpful. The more I think about it the better I like it.
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Wyn Laidig said:
This is the worst feature Logos has ever introduced. I highlight all sorts of stuff, but I dont need to note inserted in my active note file to tell me what i highlighted. It totally clutters up my note files. PLEASE REMOVE THIS, or make it invisible behind the scenes so it doesn't appear in my notes files
I agree totally. Not all highlights need notes. This just makes a big cluttered mess in note files. Not very thoughtful to the way that we may use highlighting.
There are a number of times when this is really nice. Perhaps we should define in the highlighting style itself whether or not we want a note file created for that highlight.
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
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Jacob Hantla said:
Perhaps we should define in the highlighting style itself whether or not we want a note file created for that highlight.
I think it's a question of which Note file, given that all your v4.3 Highlights ended up in Note files. The paradigm for sharing/collaboration is Notes = Annotation+Highlighting and Highlighting = Annotation[:^)] (if that makes sense don't worry).
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Jacob Hantla said:
Perhaps we should define in the highlighting style itself whether or not we want a note file created for that highlight.
This has some serious drawbacks a design plan. I think that a "default to hidden" would achieve what you want while maintaining a robust design.
Jacob Hantla said:This just makes a big cluttered mess in note files. Not very thoughtful to the way that we may use highlighting.
This is what I had been led to expect by the early posts on the beta - it has not been what has actually happened to me either in the original conversion or in my adding notes and highlighting. In fact I take back some of my initial responses that assumed the conversion did this.
My biggest complaint (outside of features not present) with the clipping/note/highlight system is the notes by reference showing up in commentaries.
Jacob Hantla said:Perhaps we should define in the highlighting style itself whether or not we want a note file created for that highlight.
I think we need to wait until we see how sharing and collaboration work before we ask for features that could interfere with those features.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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tom collinge said:
Jack,Jack Caviness said:That has been my pattern, but I may want to rethink this.
I disagree. A computer program needs to work for the users. The users should not have to work for the computer program.
It wasn't just the way the program works that caused me to reconsider my highlight pattern. I just thought highlights might be more meaningful if they followed some pattern. Sorry for the confusion.
BTW: I do agree that computer programs should work for the users.
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It looks like I have to do some rethinking of my haphazard/random highlight approach also [;)]
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Robert Pavich said:
It looks like I have to do some rethinking of my haphazard/random highlight approach also
I know what you mean. If Logos forces me to be disciplined I'm going to have to rethink my whole approach as well.
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Halo Hound said:Robert Pavich said:
It looks like I have to do some rethinking of my haphazard/random highlight approach also
I know what you mean. If Logos forces me to be disciplined I'm going to have to rethink my whole approach as well.
I've done enough thinking... no more highlighting!
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Halo Hound said:
If Logos forces me to be disciplined I'm going to have to rethink my whole approach as well.
I take discipline to be healthy thing.
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Frank Fenby said:
I take discipline to be healthy thing.
As do I. That's why I like this Beta :-)
Seriously though, I do know that true spiritual growth comes only with discipline. The best Bible software in the world cannot make up for the lack of it.
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just create a seperate note file for your random highlighting, then you can be as wreckless/uindisciplined as you want
Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have
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tom collinge said:
A computer program needs to work for the users.
I was letting this comment ride because in one sense it is true. In another sense, however, any software sets some constraints on the workflow i.e. some discipline to your use of the product. The key is that that discipline have some visible advantage to the user - saved time, increased accuracy, deeper analysis of the information, usability in new environments ... What we really lack is guidance on how to determine what pattern of use of highlights/notes works best in what situations.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:tom collinge said:
A computer program needs to work for the users.
I was letting this comment ride because in one sense it is true. In another sense, however, any software sets some constraints on the workflow i.e. some discipline to your use of the product. The key is that that discipline have some visible advantage to the user - saved time, increased accuracy, deeper analysis of the information, usability in new environments ... What we really lack is guidance on how to determine what pattern of use of highlights/notes works best in what situations.
I still think that Logos should provide simple users like me with the ability to simply highlight text as we would do with a highlighter or pencil in a printed book - without having to think and plan upfront and to pre-organize and to re-organize in case we overlooked guidance on the right pattern of use. At least the default behaviour of the program should hide the complexity unless it is looked for.
Have joy in the Lord!
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NewbieMick said:
I still think that Logos should provide simple users like me with the ability to simply highlight text as we would do with a highlighter or pencil in a printed book - without having to think and plan upfront and to pre-organize and to re-organize in case we overlooked guidance on the right pattern of use. At least the default behaviour of the program should hide the complexity unless it is looked for.
I said it once, I'll say it again. Logos is the finest company at making difficult things easy, and easy things difficult.
I would like to see Logos use the Adobe Acrobat Annotation model for highlighting and Notes. It is intuitive, and works. Why re-invent the wheel?
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Sigh ... when oh when are you guys/gals going to upgrade to Libronix?
There are SO many advantages. In fact for me about the ONLY reason to even keep Logos4 still on my computer is maybe Perseus, and right-clicking a word to save time on which lexicon has it.
Searches aren't any faster (I'm talking TOTAL time; not just index lookup), my privacy is maintained, it starts up really quick, I can copy (and highlight!!) with wild abandon, the ARROW KEYS work (wow!!!). Notes ... well, let's not talk about that shall we?
In fact, when I'm using Libronix, I feel like the programmers actually respected me as a user.
And yes, best of all, I don't have to make up unbelievable rationalizations for new Logos4 users. I can't wait to watch the 'stars' explain 'highlighting'.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Denise Barnhart said:
I can't wait to watch the 'stars' explain 'highlighting'
If by "stars" you mean MVP's, I already have multiple times.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Denise Barnhart said:
Sigh ... when oh when are you guys/gals going to upgrade to Libronix?
What do you mean by "upgrade to libronix?" if there is an alternative shell for my thousands of resources I would like to know about it...
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Peter Cellini said:
if there is an alternative shell for my thousands of resources I would like to know about it...
She is referring to the predecessor of Logos 4 - which handles most but not all Logos 4 products and is no longer subject to upgrading.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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