Low cost way to speed up logos : Solid State Drive

I just threw an Intel 120GB Solid State Drive in my old 1.6Ghz Core Duo laptop. It has made an impressive difference in navigating through logos. I'd say it is faster than my 2.5 Ghz Core 2 Duo desktop. I'd say disk I/O is definitely the bottleneck with a data heavy program like logos.

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Bill Anderson

I have an SSD in my laptop containing a mere pentium chip. It does make things much faster for everything, not just Logos. But another bottleneck is graphics and Logos does better with a dedicated graphics card.

Dave Hooton

I just threw an Intel 120GB Solid State Drive in my old 1.6Ghz Core Duo laptop.

I wouldn't say it was low cost. Also, many laptops don't have room for an extra drive or replacing the existing HDD can cost more money.

Paul Strickert

What was the MSRP? [:P]

BillS

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/309322#Comment_309322

What was the MSRP?

LOL.... your sentence for that humor is to go back & reread all the black friday complaint threads... [;)] [:P]

Friedrich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/309326#Comment_309326

What was the MSRP?

LOL.... your sentence for that humor is to go back & reread all the black friday complaint threads...

[Y]

DMB

Leighton ... thank you for your experience notes.

Dave's probably right; depends on the PC.

I've got a new Lenovo X220T coming in; it had an article on putting in an SSD but said I'd have to take out some sort of communications card. If its WIFI that'll be a no-go but if it's something else, I might try it.

My 'need for speed' is mainly on my MIDI software synths, but L4 would be good too.

The Intel SSD 120g typically goes for $180-200 or so; the 300g much higher.

Leighton Tebay

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/309330#Comment_309330

I replaced the main drive. This process in laptops is usually really easy. On my Lenovo x60s, there was one screw on the case and 4 screws on the brackets. The hard drive just slid out and slid back in. It was even easier than replacing a drive on a desktop pc.

i can take the original 2.5" drive and stick it in USB external case, although my original drive is 60GB so I'm not sure if would be worth it.

I had to install windows and move over all my data, but even that went fairly quick. Well, it could have gone faster if I realized that Windows 7 Upgrade disks don't do "clean installs" only upgrades. I ended up installing Windows 7 clean, and then ran the "upgrade" from the same install disk to get it to accept a product key. Figuring that out took awhile..."what isn't this product key working".../thud /thud /thud.

It was certainly cheaper than getting a new machine of the same build quality (Lenovo xSeries starting around $850 normally). Plus when I do get a new machine I'll just take the SSD drive with me.

In my experience Disk input/output is huge when it comes to big databases. I used to run an old old Dell Poweredge Dual Processor P3 700mhz server with 5 SCSI Drives in a Raid 5 setup. For heavy database work it would run circles around computers with much much faster processors with regular hard drives. I couldn't tell you how much of a difference it would make with MIDI software synths though.

Brian Maag

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/309366#Comment_309366

Another thought - might consider a hybrid drive. Similar concept to an SSD, but MUCH more bang for the buck (runs at about 90% the speed of a full SSD). I put a 500 GB Momentus XT in my Mac for $100. It cruises now!

Techie note - hybrids are great for non-laptops. They do drain a battery faster than a full SSD, so laptop users have to weigh that out for themselves.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/309513#Comment_309513

I put a 500 GB Momentus XT in my Mac for $100. It cruises now!

What Mac are you running?

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/309513#Comment_309513

runs at about 90% the speed of a full SSD).

But only for files/apps in the 4 GB SSD (for the 500 GB Momentus) and it first has to "learn" what you use most often. Also see http://www.maximumpc.com/article/reviews/seagate_momentus_xt_750gb_review

Allen Browne

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/309534#Comment_309534

runs at about 90% the speed of a full SSD).

But only for files/apps in the 4 GB SSD (for the 500 GB Momentus) and it first has to "learn" what you use most often. Also see http://www.maximumpc.com/article/reviews/seagate_momentus_xt_750gb_review

I'm using that hybrid drive (in a Toshiba laptop), and it really is quite snappy. I leave L4 loaded anyway, so the drive probably does have the files I need in its SSD cache.

Mind you, the 2nd generation Seagate Momentus looks even better:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5161/seagates-2nd-gen-momentus-xt-more-nand-larger-capacity

Bob Schlessman

Though Solid State Drives are somewhat pricey ($170 to $190 for a 120 Gig depending on the manufacturer) the current shortage of mechanical drives may drive the prices downward. Latest predictions for mechanical drives say it will be the end of 2012 before the supply can again meet the demand.

In March I bought a 1 Terabyte drive for $49.99. Now the same drive runs $149.99. Not to say there aren't some bargains available (1 Terabyte Samsung for $79.99 at Newegg) but overall mechanical drive prices are much higher which could help boost SSD sales. It would be nice to see the prices fall off of the plateau they have been stuck on for so long.

Do I see an SSD in my not too distant future. [:)]

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/309366#Comment_309366

Well, I went ahead and ordered an mSata form-factor 128g.

Indeed the slot is empty and better to put it in with a new PC than later. Not sure if I want to boot off of it or just feed synth samples.

I also notice it comes with W7 professionanl which means I can download MS's Virtual PC. I need that for some older software, but I am also wondering if I can use that to isolate Libronix (from IEx). Probably not.

Thanks again, Leighton

toughski

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/309562#Comment_309562

For people wanting to upgrade your drive with an SSD:

I concur that SSD makes any computer run a lot faster (you get a bigger return on your investment if you put your operating system and applications on it), However, as someone already mentioned another bottleneck for Logos seems to be a graphics card. I would get an SSD first and graphics card second, if I was upgrading.
If you are upgrading a laptop, MAKE SURE you can access the hard drive easily. I was looking at some new laptops and manufacturers started to make it extremely hard to upgrade. With some laptops you would have to disassemble them to bare boned to replace a HD or RAM

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/309637#Comment_309637

Yep ... disassembly is going to be a bear (nice bear). Pull the back, take off the keyboard, etc. But luckily someone nice took pictures of the process and what to be careful of.

I'd assume the video is not changeable for many (most?) notebooks (being integrated into the main chip logic)?

Paul N

I just threw an Intel 120GB Solid State Drive in my old 1.6Ghz Core Duo laptop. It has made an impressive difference in navigating through logos. I'd say it is faster than my 2.5 Ghz Core 2 Duo desktop. I'd say disk I/O is definitely the bottleneck with a data heavy program like logos.

Leighton, I skimmed the thread and didn't see this addressed, but how did the SSD differ in power usage? My L4 drinks my MBP battery like no one's business. Any noticeable difference, positive or negative?

Mr. Simple

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/309665#Comment_309665

SSD's use less power than standard hard drives

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/309665#Comment_309665

As Larry noted, SSD's use less power. But in doing my research, some users reported substantially increased battery time (hours), while others couldn't detect any difference.

I'd assume even with Logos, it depends on the type of activity (reading, searching, etc).

Most examples of real-world timings were along the lines of 50-75% reduction in time-to-do-X.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/309665#Comment_309665

how did the SSD differ in power usage

Since SSD have no moving parts, you would expect less power consumption.

Bob Schlessman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/309659#Comment_309659

Yep ... disassembly is going to be a bear (nice bear). Pull the back, take off the keyboard, etc. But luckily someone nice took pictures of the process and what to be careful of.

Wow Denise! What model laptop do you have that requres so much disassembly to replace the hard drive? I have a low end Acer and everything easily is accessible. I just upgraded my memory from 4 to 8 Gig and it took me all of five minutes to do. The hard drive is also accessible through the same cover. I can't see upgrading my hard drive any time soon. I have a 640 gig drive so space is not a major concern and SSD's are still too pricey in that capacity. It would cost me over twice what I paid for the laptop to get a comparable capicity in an SSD. Besides, once Logos is loaded I don't see any performace lags with the current setup.

I'd assume the video is not changeable for many (most?) notebooks (being integrated into the main chip logic)?

I would say 90% of laptops fall into this category.

Bob Schlessman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/310136#Comment_310136

I bought an Intel SSD (80 gig) for my desktop several months ago and was badly disappointed after all of the hype about how wonderful they are. So much so that I wiped it clean and returned it after a few days of trial run. Maybe it was just the particular model. It did boot faster but once I was up and running I was underwhelmed by the difference.

I think it is another example of benchmarking vs. real world experience being quite different.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/310136#Comment_310136

Yes ... the Lenovo X220 Tablet arrived last night. The funny part is the user manual has a sizable section on customizing it for various types of hardware, most requiring 'surgury'. In the 'old days' you'd get a major warrenty warning ('This PC will be removed from the Book of Life).

The other funny part is on YouTube someone wished to show just how 'tough' these were. So they took another well regarded notebook starting with an 'H' and this one. Then while running, they poured a glass of water on each keyboard. Of course the 'H' computer fizzled out pretty quick, while this one kept right on computing away.

While on the subject of the 'H' computer, one of the founders was Christian and instrumental in making the large manuscript / papyri collections available to 'normal people' for Bible research. So if you do have one of the 'H' computers, remember 'no water' AND your Logos fulfilled his dream.

BillS

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/310143#Comment_310143

[:D]

...on YouTube someone ...took another well regarded notebook starting with an 'H' and this one. Then while running, they poured a glass of water on each keyboard. Of course the 'H' computer fizzled out pretty quick, while this one kept right on computing away.

More good news for coffee drinkers! [C]

Ron Corbett

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/310170#Comment_310170

I tried a Core SATA 3 128GB on my ASUS G73JW (which is i7, 8 GB RAM) and found that my improvement was very limited - prob. because the laptop seems to only support SATA 2.

The improvement of speed was about 5% or less. Very sad to say.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/311213#Comment_311213

I tried a Core SATA 3 128GB on my ASUS G73JW (which is i7, 8 GB RAM) and found that my improvement was very limited - prob. because the laptop seems to only support SATA 2.

You are always limited by your weakest link. It doesn't matter if the Speed Limit sign says 75, if Grandma in front of you is going 50. [:P]

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/311213#Comment_311213

I tried a Core SATA 3 128GB

I can only find OCZ Core SSD's for SATA 2 and these are superseded (End of life!) models. They are slow by today's standards. But how do you measure your 5%?

Mr. Simple

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/311230#Comment_311230

I tried a Core SATA 3 128GB on my ASUS G73JW (which is i7, 8 GB RAM) and found that my improvement was very limited - prob. because the laptop seems to only support SATA 2.

You are always limited by your weakest link. It doesn't matter if the Speed Limit sign says 75, if Grandma in front of you is going 50.

I know a grandma who drives a pavement wrinkling '67 Camero Big Block and referee's Mixed Martial Arts, I kid not. So it depends.

Mr. Simple

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/311230#Comment_311230

I tried a Core SATA 3 128GB on my ASUS G73JW (which is i7, 8 GB RAM) and found that my improvement was very limited - prob. because the laptop seems to only support SATA 2.

You are always limited by your weakest link. It doesn't matter if the Speed Limit sign says 75, if Grandma in front of you is going 50.

I know a grandma who drives a pavement wrinkling '67 Camero Big Block and is a score card holder in Mixed Martial Arts, I kid not. So it depends.

Tom Traubitz

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/309690#Comment_309690

Running Logos 4 from an SSD was what made the most difference for me. Fast computers do help, but using an SSD-based laptop really changed how I used Logos4. Once I had Logos4 up to speed it's auto-searching was a joy to have at my fingertips.

-T