voting with my wallet
Comments
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Bob Pritchett said:
I do think it would be helpful if it was returned to split out items, though, so we could respond (and see priority) on the items as individual -- or at least tightly grouped by function -- units.
I agree that uservoice type prioritization works best when the tasks are narrow and well defined. But sometimes one has to be creative to get attention. I would have no objection to your marking the first 2 items as complete - with perhaps a notation that individual tasks replace any unfinished business. I can double check that appropriate individual items exist and post a list of where people may wish to place their freed votes.
I would like to see a parallel cleaning of the list by Logos where items that don't request anything (some rookie errors in using uservoice) are rejected and some of the low vote items which have been completed are marked as such.
I suspect that it would help users in their priority setting if the Logos 4 base product requests could be listed separately from the platform specific requests. The platform specific requests also need updated to indicate those that are already planned.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:Bob Pritchett said:
I do think it would be helpful if it was returned to split out items, though, so we could respond (and see priority) on the items as individual -- or at least tightly grouped by function -- units.
I agree that uservoice type prioritization works best when the tasks are narrow and well defined. But sometimes one has to be creative to get attention. I would have no objection to your marking the first 2 items as complete - with perhaps a notation that individual tasks replace any unfinished business. I can double check that appropriate individual items exist and post a list of where people may wish to place their freed votes.
I would like to see a parallel cleaning of the list by Logos where items that don't request anything (some rookie errors in using uservoice) are rejected and some of the low vote items which have been completed are marked as such.
I suspect that it would help users in their priority setting if the Logos 4 base product requests could be listed separately from the platform specific requests. The platform specific requests also need updated to indicate those that are already planned.
Concur with closing first two Logos User Voice suggestions plus parallel cleaning with status updates, especially for "started" items.
toughski said:I also think that Uservoice system is flawed: it gives more exposure to early-submitted ideas. If someone has a really brilliant idea now, it is not even going to be on a radar screen. Plus, most people already spent their votes, and, as a passive system, Uservoice does not encourage voters to reassess issues.
Observation: Logos User Voice suggestion => Logos 4 Mac Enhancements was created on 30 Jul 2011 that now has 237 votes to appear on first page of Top ideas. Caveat: this suggestion has been mentioned in many forum threads, especially ones requesting OS X Lion full screen support.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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MJ. Smith said:Bob Pritchett said:
So this isn't so much a delayed feature as a retired/re-directed feature
This is the first indication I've had that the feature is not coming ... after two years of seeing it listed as forthcoming. If its functions were critical to me, I would feel betrayed. I'd heard that it was dependent on the PB, I heard it was dependent on a new web site, but I hadn't heard it might disappear. I would expect most people who use the feature to have little interest in the website side - there is metadata/search information that preachers find useful.
I agree. This is the first I have heard of this feature not coming at all. The missing features page (I noticed its been renamed to features coming soon....) has said the following for some time but its a little bit cryptic
"Sermon File (To be re-designed; partially replaced by the forthcoming Personal Book Builder, supplemented by a to-be-released web site)"
While one can read your thoughts on this Bob in to this comment on hindsight, I don't think a lot of people read it as you are now saying.
Bob Pritchett said:Because, based on our analysis of what was uploaded to Sermon File in Logos 3
Do you mean within the Libronix 3 or to the Sermon File website ? If to the website I choose not to upload anything there because I was using the tool to collate sermons preached at my church and since it was not my work I did not feel it appropriate to upload other peoples work.
Bob Pritchett said:Sermon File and the complaints/concerns/issues with it, we believe that Personal Books is often a better solution, and that when it's not the new solution will be a new web site that we haven't coded yet. .
Once again if referring to the website there was a lot of white noise uploaded, I don't know whether it was people just wanting to be listed as a top contributor or something else - but I never really used the site because there was too much to sift through.
I am know using the book builder to collate sermons from the church I attend and overall, for my needs find that satisfactory but agree with MJ not all metadata fields included in the Sermon File Add-in have been ported to PBB, and this is where the real value lies, being able to search our personal databases on metadata rather than being able to upload them to a website (at least as how I see it - others may be wanting a website, I can't speak for them.)
Bob Pritchett said:Personal Books -- I think the Logos 4 implementation is vastly superior to the one in Logos 3.
I agree with you it is vastly superior for my needs, but there are others who have brought up specific issues such as parsing on non-english bible references that need to be addressed as one example. Better information on the fields that can be used for tagging would be valuable.
Edit Note:
One area I forgot to mention whee PBB in Logos 4 fails it that it doesn't handle data in tabular format....this is negative.
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Andrew McKenzie said:
Logos 4 fails it that it doesn't handle data in tabular format....this is negative.
A major negative especially for template based solutions.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Andrew, MJ,
we should continue discussing SFA on the new thread
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Bob Pritchett said:
Every feature that was in Logos 3 is not, in my mind, a sacred contract to deliver in Logos 4 and every future version. Products change; features are introduced and retired.
I have been thinking about the implications of this statement since I first read it.
I appreciate that from the developers perspective it is important to be able to alter the function set over time but from a user's perspective there will always be certain features that cannot be removed without causing major problems. Notes and the Sermon File Addin are good examples of this, both required/allowed us as users to enter significant amounts of data into Logos 3 and in my opinion it is essential that these features are carried forward. More importantly, we need to know that the implementation in Logos 4 will also exist in 5 and 6 because if this is not guaranteed then there is no point in using them.
In my view there are certain features that Logos must commit to once they are introduced because without this commitment the feature is pointless.
God Bless
Graham
Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke
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Graham Owen said:Bob Pritchett said:
Every feature that was in Logos 3 is not, in my mind, a sacred contract to deliver in Logos 4 and every future version. Products change; features are introduced and retired.
I have been thinking about the implications of this statement since I first read it.
I appreciate that from the developers perspective it is important to be able to alter the function set over time but from a user's perspective there will always be certain features that cannot be removed without causing major problems. Notes and the Sermon File Addin are good examples of this, both required/allowed us as users to enter significant amounts of data into Logos 3 and in my opinion it is essential that these features are carried forward. More importantly, we need to know that the implementation in Logos 4 will also exist in 5 and 6 because if this is not guaranteed then there is no point in using them.
In my view there are certain features that Logos must commit to once they are introduced because without this commitment the feature is pointless.
I agree. I would hate to become accustomed to using a specific feature only to have it taken away from me in a future update.
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Graham Owen said:Bob Pritchett said:
Every feature that was in Logos 3 is not, in my mind, a sacred contract to deliver in Logos 4 and every future version. Products change; features are introduced and retired.
I have been thinking about the implications of this statement since I first read it.
But as Denise will tell you, and I will loudly echo, Libronix 3 and Logos 4 are two distinctly separate programs. I am very happy Bob Pritchett did not kill Libronix 3 upon release of Logos 4. But I lament the fact he called it "4."
Libronix 3 is still the best competition Logos 4 faces. It will do some things Logos 4 can not do. Some things Logos 4 will never do. It will do some things better. Did I just say that? [:O]
I still keep both Libronix 3 and Logos 4 on my Windows based computers. Logos 4 has finally become my favorite.
Graham Owen said:In my view there are certain features that Logos must commit to once they are introduced because without this commitment the feature is pointless.
Had Bob kept Libronix going for a couple more versions, he could have named Logos 4 something else (SuperStudy?) and produced it concurrently with Libronix. Then he could have announced a cross-grade from Libronix to SuperStudy and everyone would be happy he kindly provided for them and no one would criticize the new program for not being the old program. Yeah, I don't believe that either. That is why Bob Pritchett runs a software company and I don't.
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Bob Pritchett said:
Products change; features are introduced and retired. Things comes up. For that matter, I'm not sure I even remember anymore how we got in this situation where people feel Logos 4 has to deliver every single thing Logos 3 did.
Products change but usually in terms of better ways to handle the workflow or to delete an end product that is obsolete. I don't expect Logos to provide me with a stack of punch cards to sort. But I do expect it to sort. The real question is what you think Logos users want to achieve:
- personal growth?
- prep material for leading a Bible study program included in Logos?
- create a Bible study program?
- prepare a sermon?
- prepare a talk for a spiritual retreat?
- prepare a public presentation with slides?
- prepare print-ready articles?
- prepare class paper?
- prepare dissertation?
- prepare/present seminary Bible study class material?
- prepare/present seminary language class material?
No, I don't think you should do all of the above ... but it seems as if sermon support is one that would be expected for software with so many pastor-related resources.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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toughski said:
but this year, I am voting with my wallet
Well, I voted with MY wallet. I just hit the 30% level, and am thrilled with both Logos 4 and the resources I've bought and will buy.
Thanks, Logos!
Eating a steady diet of government cheese, and living in a van down by the river.
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Super Tramp said:
I still keep both Libronix 3 and Logos 4 on my Windows based computers. Logos 4 has finally become my favorite.
I also have both versions installed, I kept Version 3 because I wanted the Home Page access to the resources in the Standard Library Commentary. Whilst I would prefer to use a single program, I can accept the retirement of the old style Home Pages as reasonable.
At a personal level I am also fortunate in that I did not really use the Sermon File Addin that much and most of my notes, whilst probably longer than Logos expects are simple text, so the loss of the extra formatting has not been catastrophic for me. From my perspective, the point is that both the SFA and Notes are user created resources and a key claim of Logos is that all of our resources are protected when we upgrade...
Now I can accept that one day all of our user developed content will be stored in the native format (PBB) but if this is the ultimate goal for Logos then we need a set of tools that will let us create that content. Whether this is achieved using internal Logos developed tools or by using the facilities of third party word processors and then compiling the documents automatically in the background does not really matter (to me at least) as long as the source document that I create can be recalled for future changes and the content that I generate is available, secure and future proofed.
I can accept that notes have limited functionality, but I think it is unreasonable to face the possibility that a future release of Logos could further reduce that functionality.
God Bless
Graham
Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke
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I, myself, find the new L4 a bit annoying. The "home page" seems to be nothing more than advertising articles.
I would prefer more articles, or, nothing at all. The old L3 format was better, in some ways, with the pop-up alerts.
One other issue I see is that everything does not appear to be "linked"; which is why I thought the forever and a year install.0 -
LegendsOfBatman said:
I, myself, find the new L4 a bit annoying. The "home page" seems to be nothing more than advertising articles.
I would prefer more articles, or, nothing at all. The old L3 format was better, in some ways, with the pop-up alerts.
One other issue I see is that everything does not appear to be "linked"; which is why I thought the forever and a year install.You can edit the home page at the bottom left corner. The adds can be turned off.
Blessings,
Philana
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MJD said:
I voted with my wallet too, more than 8,000 times! I think this Christmas sale was the best ever... Thank you Logos! I worked with Santiago and he is awesome to work with!
Voted 8000 times?! [:O] Are you shameless? Or are you that absolutely positive your spouse does not read the forums?
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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No spouse... It only makes sense to buy now while you get 50 percent back to be used for future purchases. [Y]
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Super Tramp said:MJD said:
I voted with my wallet too, more than 8,000 times! I think this Christmas sale was the best ever... Thank you Logos! I worked with Santiago and he is awesome to work with!
Voted 8000 times?!
Are you shameless? Or are you that absolutely positive your spouse does not read the forums?This coming from the guy who sold three cars to buy Logos resources this Christmas!
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MJD said:
I voted with my wallet too, more than 8,000 times! I think this Christmas sale was the best ever... Thank you Logos!
Guess what? there will be a similar deal next year, probably even better. But even if not, I have enough Logos resources to last me a lifetime. I am also confident that by this time next year L4 will be better than ever (LOGOS, don't make me eat my words! [;)] )
I am happy you got an awesome deal for great resources to be used in amazing software.
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Joshua G said:
I voted with my wallet too. I bought something.
I am very thankful Logos works as well as it does.
I am also very thankful for the sales. I was able to fill a few holes in my library that I have long wanted to fill.. Some resources that I bought long ago - such as Word Biblical Commentary - had added a few volumes and updated others. I picked up those and some other resources that I needed. I will use the Logos Dollars back to add another needed resource that I have long wanted. The Christmas sale was a great blessing ot me.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
That cut out a lot of junk. Thank you. (Kept community pricing, tho [A]
Philana Crouch said:You can edit the home page at the bottom left corner. The adds can be turned off.
Blessings,
Philana
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Joshua G said:
This coming from the guy who sold three cars to buy Logos resources this Christmas!
It gets complicated...... The sale of the cars was to keep my wife happy. She helps me set priorities and pare down my multi-faceted interests. If a double-minded man is unstable, what would a cluster-bomb minded man be? (video courtesy of Wired magazine)
So when I talk about abandoning one of my hobbies or "projects" in favor of more Logos resources, my wife is very supportive. Bible study has got to be better for me than any of my other interests.
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