What am I doing wrong on HIghlighting?
I have a Bible up. I have a Note file up. I click the Note file to ensure it is active. I highlight text in the Bible and right click on it, and at the bottom, when Selection is active on the right column, I see Add a note to "My Note file" which says it does think my active Note file is the active one.
So far so good, everything is set. So now I try to use it.
I highlight Bible text, click on a highlight in "Solid Colors". It CREATES a Note file Called Solid colors, and puts the annotation there! Says "Annotation added to Solid Colors."I highlight another section of text, click on a highlight in Inductive Colors. It says and adds, "Annotation added to Inductive Colors" after creating THAT Note file.
What happened to adding the annotation to my active note file, or is this a change I missed? How do I get this to do what I want?
Beta 13..
Comments
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Each pallette has a Save-in setting. The default is "Pallette-specific note file".
Click on the pallette-specific menu, then click on "Save-in" to change.
You can select "Most recent note file" (which is what you want) or you can specify a custom-named note file to use. This affects all the styles in that pallette.
P.S. thanks for asking this. I had forgotten how this worked and I needed to go back and figure it out for my own purposes.
MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
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Thanks Todd. Is this written up anywhere? I have been looking at the release notes but it's hard to decipher, and threads don't tell the whole story unless I missed a good explanation.
Also - I have resources with lots of highlighting, and because of that setting it has built new Note files with names like "Highlighter Pens". I don't want the Note file, as all the notes are auto-generated by old highlights. It appears that if I delete this Note file I lose all my highlighting (and I think I read something similar). Is that true or was that corrected and there is a way to get rid of that Note file?
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Dominick Sela said:
Thanks Todd. Is this written up anywhere? I have been looking at the release notes but it's hard to decipher, and threads don't tell the whole story unless I missed a good explanation.
I am not aware of it anywhere.
Dominick Sela said:It appears that if I delete this Note file I lose all my highlighting (and I think I read something similar). Is that true or was that corrected and there is a way to get rid of that Note file?
Yes, I believe that is true.
You can drag notes to another note file one-by-one (you have to click in the empty space below or to the left of the note icon to drag them). I don't know of anyway to move multiple notes at once.
MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
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So I upgrade to 4.5 (beta), I get these Note files auto-generated from all my existing highlighting of resources, and I can't get rid of them, or if I do it deletes my highlighting with no notice or hope of recovery since there is no Undo?
Who thought of that? Boy is that going to give us some business in the forums. I really can't believe that is the implementation. I hope there is something I am missing, or this can be changed.
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I agree. I think it's too easy to delete in Logos in general, and this just adds another thing that can easily be deleted.
Plus, there is no backup.
MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
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Dominick Sela said:
So I upgrade to 4.5 (beta), I get these Note files auto-generated from all my existing highlighting of resources, and I can't get rid of them, or if I do it deletes my highlighting with no notice or hope of recovery since there is no Undo?
You summed up what I think will be a common experience with Highlighting in 4.5. There are other pitfalls because of the Notes/Highlighting symbiosis, which at least two MVP's have discovered. And how about not knowing what Note file your Highlighting is in or what style your "Add a Note" will have until you create it? Or what will happen when you "remove annotations" vs. Erase in Highlighting.
There is some hope of recovery because Logos has backup files (*.bak) for Highlightihg and Notes, starting with your v4.3 databases, but there is no indication of their utility from the developers.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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We are developing a tool that Customer Service can use to "undelete" a deleted Notes document. (It will undo the effect of right-clicking a Notes document on the File menu and deleting it.) Anyone who deletes a Notes document containing their highlights should be advised to call CS to recover it.
This is just a short-term fix; eventually we plan to expose the "undelete" functionality directly to all users (once the implementation is finished, the UI is cleaned up, it's gone through more testing, and when it can handle all document types, etc.).
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Bradley Grainger said:
We are developing a tool that Customer Service can use to "undelete" a deleted Notes document. (It will undo the effect of right-clicking a Notes document on the File menu and deleting it.) Anyone who deletes a Notes document containing their highlights should be advised to call CS to recover it.
This is just a short-term fix; eventually we plan to expose the "undelete" functionality directly to all users (once the implementation is finished, the UI is cleaned up, it's gone through more testing, and when it can handle all document types, etc.).
Thanks Bradley, that will be great once it's done! And thanks for the CS help in the interim.
Will the final design require there to be a permanent connection between a highlight and a Note, ie. deleting the Note deletes the highlight? Will there be a way to "just highlight" text without creating/adding to Notes? It's a nice feature but I am puzzled why this needs to be a one-way implementation and not user choice whether or not they want a Note created...
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Dominick Sela said:
Will the final design require there to be a permanent connection between a highlight and a Note, ie. deleting the Note deletes the highlight? Will there be a way to "just highlight" text without creating/adding to Notes? It's a nice feature but I am puzzled why this needs to be a one-way implementation and not user choice whether or not they want a Note created...
Yes, this is the final design: a note is a highlight. Notes and highlights are the same thing. The only difference (between "Add a note" and applying a highlighter to the selected text) is the visual settings that are applied by default. "Add a note" turns on the note indicator icon and highlights with the note colour. Applying highlighting uses no note indicator icon and highlights with the highlighter style. (This is for notes applied to a selection; notes applied to a reference only support the Indicator and Color options.)
Some advantages of the unification include:
- You can turn sets of highlights on and off (by (de)selecting a Notes document in the resource panel's visual filters list)
- You can modify an existing highlight (e.g., change the highlighting style) by clicking its note indicator icon in the Notes document
- Many users expressed a desire to add textual notes to a highlight (e.g., while working through an inductive study) without requiring a note indicator icon in the resource text
- Document sharing will require the highlights to be contained in a document (so the items being shared can be identified)
- You can convert a highlight to a note and vice versa (e.g., mark up a passage quickly, then return and add detailed notes)
- We get some new features "for free", such as being able to use any highlighting style for a note, not just solid colours
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Bradley Grainger said:
Some advantages of the unification include
My list of "disadvantages" not with the overall design which I like but being nitpicky about the problems I have with the current implementation:
- The same icon is used both to mean to icon in the text and highlighting
- The "before text" image now repeats on each new line making it useless for numbering items in a list, etc.
- If is difficult at time to associate the highlight to the appropriate note as there is no indication of what highlight is attached.
I may have just not found it, but not being able to change the default file in which highlights fall is also becoming a problem as I actually attempt to use the feature.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Bradley Grainger said:
Some advantages of the unification include:
I understand the reasons, but the UI is not intuitive e.g. the intent of many actions is not clear, the result of certain actions is not predictable and more information needs to be available from/on the context menu vs the invitation to "remove annotations" (whatever that means).
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Hi MJ
MJ. Smith said:I may have just not found it, but not being able to change the default file in which highlights fall is also becoming a problem as I actually attempt to use the feature.
This is done at a highlighting palette level - it was introduced in 4.5 B3 - from the Release Notes
"Highlighting note destination can be selected for a particular palette by clicking on the Palette’s menu in the Highlighting tool, selecting “Palette specific note file” (default) and changing the selection to “Most recent note file” or a specific user-created Notes document. (See Known Issues for Mac.)"
When you use it, you will see something like this:
Graham
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Graham Criddle said:
changing the selection to “Most recent note file” or a specific user-created Notes document.
Thank you - I hadn't remember that ... I think I can make that work for me with only a little hassle starting with a dummy note to make a file the most recent.[:)]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I have created a notefile for all the "junk" in-fact any new note/highlight gets added to it, I then drag the "real" ones out to their final resting places.. and the junk can keep growing without poluting the important stuff.
Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have
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DominicM said:
I have created a note file for all the "junk" in-fact any new note/highlight gets added to it, I then drag the "real" ones out to their final resting places.. and the junk can keep growing without polluting the important stuff.
That is how I am now using it, except I just l;eave it building the size of the default note per Palette type. Then I drag out entries to another note when needed, Does anyone think this is intuitive?
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Bradley Grainger said:
this is the final design: a note is a highlight. Notes and highlights are the same thing.
I have now deleted all my notes. Notes were bad enough before...[:(]
quote: and the junk can keep growing
As I do make the mistake of regularly highlighting I will just have to keep deleting the subsequent notes. When I wonder where my highlights have gone I can just pretend I have short term memory loss.
The larger problem is the "mess" this makes with continuous (unwanted) synching - It appears to mean that I have to remember to delete all notes before closing down the program. -- unless there is some hidden "do not make any notes" switch? Basically it means that for all intents and purposes "high-lighting" has been "wrecked."
Regards, SteveF
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SteveF said:
Basically it means that for all intents and purposes "high-lighting" has been "wrecked."
I don't mean to be dense or confrontational, but can you please explain how it's been wrecked? You seem to be stating that notes were bad, continuous (unwanted) synching is bad, and highlighting is wrecked, but why is this the case? What makes it bad/wrecked for you? Why do you have to remember to delete all notes? (Sorry if you've posted this before, but I couldn't find it after a quick search.) Again, I'm not trying to argue, but trying to understand your concerns correctly.
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Bradley,
I know from a DBA point of view treating annotations and highlights the same makes sense, as it didnt need a new table, I would also have likely used that logical route.
However, Highlighting is not the same as notes, and the extra highlighting stuff which was background/invisible before, at first seems to clutter/break the system, it is a new learning curve, and most of us hate change
It is probably what's annoyed me the most, but now I have found I can hive the highlights off into a "temp" file, I am much happier, and do like the way I can attatch notes in the future if I choose to..
I know there are those who will continue to hate the change, but its growing on me
Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have
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Bradley Grainger said:
Why do you have to remember to delete all notes? (Sorry if you've posted this before, but I couldn't find it after a quick search.) Again, I'm not trying to argue, but trying to understand your concerns correctly.
From my perspective, Highlights are not Notes - they are not one and the same thing. To me, a Note is content I want to add to one or more resources. A highlight is just a simple aid to visual review of a resource. The paradigm of the paper world works very well for me. While it is very nice to be able to search through highlighting (the main reason I used to highlight), to create data about highlights all the time makes no sense to me as it's not the paradigm I have ever seen/used. Highlights = visual. Notes = additional content.
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DominicM said:
I know from a DBA point of view treating annotations and highlights the same makes sense
I'm with Bradley on this one - there are three types of notes at a particular level of abstraction:
- notes using text only
- notes using text and a visual marker (icon)
- notes using visual marker only
Note that the middle category can be either a stock icon and text OR a stock highlight and text. It is the intersection of the other two groups. I find this useful as it allows me to explain the rationale for using a specific highlight and allows me to simplify some palettes.
That said, there are some usability and performance issues still to be resolved,
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Bradley Grainger said:
please explain how it's been wrecked
Dear Bradley:
Thank you for asking about my "issues."
The two "Dominic's" have stated most of my concerns very well.
The reason that up to now you have not heard from me on this subject of notes [I will mention highlights latter down below] is that throughout the entire beta process I've tried to deliberately stay away from entering into the "note wars" -- I may have "slipped" occassionally? But I have tried to be a part of the silent (majority/minority?) because I could live without them, and have tried in some ways to make the (former) Sermon File [:)] or both the old & new PBB [:D] take their place.
I realize that they are a deal breaker for some. But since the late 1990's in Libronix 3 I've tried to limit the numbers of "notes." They slowed down my system.
Even with a much faster computer the WPF/.net based graphic display seemed to lead to slow typing input. They also must be continuously synched . All in all, for me, they have been more trouble than they are worth. Through the years I've tried "Bob's"; "Mo Proctors"; and "Mark Banes" suggestions [I 'get' that "its not a word processor"] and so just adding little "quotes/comments" etc to individual verses but would end up somethimes with 5 to more than 20 identical note indicator items littering a passage--like so much "radar chaff"--
But at least I could (still) "highlight". ie. Underline a word here or there--put a paragraph in colour--etc etc.
Now everything that I have never liked about Notes has invaded and infected highlights, which up until now were very helpful to me.
But now that highlights have been lumped into creating many more sets of notes (for every different pen, for every different resourse), every little highlight or underline has now become a new note collection unto itself. A whole set of new (useless) note files with "senseless" lists of one word each, all because I chose to underline or highlight them? This is especially evident when reading/highlighting some of Logos' "novels"/ English literature etc.
These highlights were not/are not meant to be content--they were for emphasis
And now if I successfully delete the long meaningless one-word note files all the emphasis (and effort) is gone also.
I realize some have wanted to "search" by highlight. I guess that I am glad that they will finally be able to.
But in "giving" to them, I feel "taken away" from.
Thanks
Regards, SteveF
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Dominick Sela said:
So I upgrade to 4.5 (beta), I get these Note files auto-generated from all my existing highlighting of resources, and I can't get rid of them, or if I do it deletes my highlighting with no notice or hope of recovery since there is no Undo?
Who thought of that? Boy is that going to give us some business in the forums. I really can't believe that is the implementation. I hope there is something I am missing, or this can be changed.
The matter of rolling out Logos 4.5 worries me--I have tons of highlighting in 4.3. When I get upgraded to the new version, I would like to be able to control what Logos does with all that legacy highlight. I'm not exactly sure what the new system is like, but it appears that by default I'll see a bunch of new Notes files get created titled perhaps by the pallet a given highlighter was in. It seems to me on the surface that I'd prefer to be able to have the conversion routine create notes files for each resource with all the highlights I had in that resource in that notes file. For example, "ESV (Notes)" would contain all the highlighting I currently have in the ESV.
The new methodology confuses me, not having used the Beta. For example, today I can "Note" a verse in a Bible version and the Note will appear for that reference in every other Bible version. Does that continue to work the same?
My experience with Notes today is that they are awfully slow, even on my high-performance Win7 i7 desktop--I can sometimes watch characters paint onto a line of text in the Note. I've increasingly had trouble with a significant lag in showing the highlighting on-screen that I applied in the text (especially for ESV)--in some cases it can now take 23+ minutes !!! to catch up to my highlights [unless the program crashes before it syncs, in which case I lose it all]. I am concerned that system performance of highlighting will be worse when coupled to Notes, unless the developers have fixed the lag in 4.3. If it becomes the sum of the Notes lag + the highlighting lag I'm having now, it will make things unusable.
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MJ. Smith said:
there are three types of notes at a particular level of abstraction:
- notes using text only
- notes using text and a visual marker (icon)
- notes using visual marker only
B13 still does not enable a resource search for "Annotation" to locate a Note by reference. As this can have text in the Note file but only an icon in the resource where does it fit amongst these types?
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Ward Walker said:
The new methodology confuses me, not having used the Beta. For example, today I can "Note" a verse in a Bible version and the Note will appear for that reference in every other Bible version. Does that continue to work the same?
The types of Notes (not highlighting) in 4.5 have not changed, so a Note by reference works as before (and the same for a Note by selection).
Ward Walker said:it appears that by default I'll see a bunch of new Notes files get created titled perhaps by the pallet a given highlighter was in.
Yes
Ward Walker said:It seems to me on the surface that I'd prefer to be able to have the conversion routine create notes files for each resource with all the highlights I had in that resource in that notes file. For example, "ESV (Notes)" would contain all the highlighting I currently have in the ESV.
You would have more Note files if you highlighted 30 resources with 20 palettes, which might affect performance, but the logic of creating highlight "Notes" by resource is more appealing and intuitive.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:
As this can have text in the Note file but only an icon in the resource where does it fit amongst these types?
roughly:
- Notes using text only - notes created by "Add note", noted added by selection with "null" icon; note added by reference with "hull" icon;
- Notes using visual marker only - default for highlighting
- Notes using text and visual marker (icon) - everything else
I haven't run a truth table to verify I've covered all the bases.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
I haven't run a truth table to verify I've covered all the bases.
I think that is needed and/or the descriptions need to be revisited as to the source of the "text" e.g. note by reference doesn't inherently have text.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Well, I must concur with SteveF.
This morning, I had a terrible time with the program. For all the reasons that Steve mentioned. I could have written that post!
I'm trying, and mostly failing, from getting steamed about this. I don't like getting mad at fellow Christians. So I won't elaberate on all the things that are bothering me about how BOGGED DOWN my system has become. If I must, I will delete every note, hightlight, etc., just to make this program work the way it should.
Please, do something to fix this. I don't want to regret my investment. I don't want to erase over 12 years of highlights. It will feel like throwing away a family bible.
Thanks, and sorry about my rant.
May the Lord bless you and keep you.
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Daniel R. Smith said:
If I must, I will delete every note, hightlight, etc., just to make this program work the way it should.
It would be helpful to know the spec's for your computer and a sample time or two of things that are slow enough to be a problem not an annoyance. (I complained about a 9 second wait for a drop down menu last night.) We need to give Logos specifics for them to fix it so real complaints are not rants. And for goodness sake don't erase 12 years of work ... at least archive it.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Daniel R. Smith said:
I'm trying, and mostly failing, from getting steamed about this. I don't like getting mad at fellow Christians. So I won't elaberate on all the things that are bothering me about how BOGGED DOWN my system has become. If I must, I will delete every note, hightlight, etc., just to make this program work the way it should.
Is this your only installation or do you have a stable v4.3 to use?
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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MJ and Dave, sorry about the delay in replying.
I really don't want to get into my system, etc. I don't believe that is the issue. I am just concurring with what was said above by Steve and Wade. I would basically re-write what they've said.
But let me reiterate this much:
- I'm not sold on the "every highlight is a note" setup. For me, that is just a whole lot of worthless clutter.
- I'm not the fastest typist in the world, but the bog in typing in notes is ridiculous. I won't go into system specs. because mine are fine, and because too many people have already had the same complaints with more than adequate system hardware.
So, here's to hoping the Logos gets this worked out. I think there's been enough complaints, or concerns mentioned to warrant more work in this area. IMHO, it is, bar none, that greatest shortcoming of this software. (Actually, for me, it is the only real shortcoming.).
Thanks.
May the Lord bless you and keep you.
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Bradley Grainger said:
Applying highlighting uses no note indicator icon and highlights with the highlighter style. (This is for notes applied to a selection; notes applied to a reference only support the Indicator and Color options.)
Wonder about enabling highlighter style for by reference notes ?
Also wonder about enabling superscript for Note Indicator ? (essentially allow choice of large or small Note indicators)
Likewise curious about Note indicator(s) without a black border ?
Keep Smiling [:)]
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