Say What? Libronix no longer supported????
Comments
-
Here's how it may happen one day.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Idea_Entertainment
IOW, I agree that most likely someone will buy Logos out rather than the program discontinuing.
0 -
Hi Jim
JimT said:Please advise how I can protect my investment with your company now the L3 support is being disabled? How can I ensure my spend on licenses how any hope of outlasting the Logos Company, in the event of some future problems?
We need a full offline install and license-key load please.
Not suggesting for a moment that Logos shouldn't respond to this but just wondered whether Option 1 at http://wiki.logos.com/Quick_Installation_onto_multiple_computers would provide some of the capability you are looking for in an L4 context?
Graham
0 -
TC ... you're whistling in the wind. Back in my corporate days when companies came in for software presentations, issue #1 was not its usability, efficiency, price, etc. It was handling of licenses. The reason was (and is) that companies come and go fairly frequently. Large corporations have to plan for that. They can't just shrug their shoulders.
In a similar vein, when we moved to Sedona in 2004, the real estate folks expressed complete confidence about the rise in prices, land values, and so forth. It was quite interesting because the reasoning actually had some truth to it. But knowing incomes were not rising at the same rate as real estate, demanded the common sense conclusion that the claims were not sustainable. We just didn't know why (and luckily bought well below the market).
The point I am making is that each person really HAS to apply some common sense to their situation. If they're a pastor, the books are like a tool set ... they come and go. If the person isn't that well off, they need to plan for loosing their investment. Life happens. Bob can't promise the future, though he'd like to.
People whistle that Bob's a good guy (true). That he's successfully managed his enterprise historically (not true per his own admission). That the owners are on the same songsheet (not likely; they keep apologizing for mis-steps). That the industry continues to seem stable (not true; ask the Praedis users along with consolidation of Bible software companies). All the clues are there, as they were prior to the real estate collapse.
I personally have no trouble supporting L4; runs smooth, easy to use. We'd have no trouble buying Portfolio, just with our monthly 'mad money'. But having sat in many a boardroom presentation, getting a lock on Libronix was the criticality for me. I don't propose to be a fool (at least in this instance anyway!).
And so I encourage folks to 'use some common sense' about their future. Plan ahead. Think it through.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0 -
Dave Hooton said:
But some will cut the rope because the situation with Libronix and L4 is unacceptable. I'm wondering when support for the software will cease, both CS and patches for new versions of IE. I hope the timing improves after this bombshell.
That's about the only thing that concerns me, I use both versions at times, just be cause when I'm wanting to make notes in a study L3 is easier and faster, and some searches, even if they're not as easy as L4, give me different returns, that L4 doesn't yet give me. L4 is a one fits all products, L3 is/was more of a make it do what you like product. I would have felt better when L4 was created if it had all the features of L3, but in a new format... by different I don't mean exactly the same, but the end results are close enough for those of us who had come to love L3, and still do.
Also, I hope that all the resources in L3, that come up in L4 will still be there, and another question, will adding resources in L3 from another supplier "not" be available to import to L4?
0 -
I'll make this observation: the Mac user base has no access to Libronix as it was discontinued well before Lion was released. (unless you run a special emulator). I've read all the replies to get a sense for the disgust but feel oddly that I'm not missing out because I never really experienced Libronix in the first place. I think many newer users may be scratching our heads at these responses. Are we just ignorant? Is it like having to go to my grandfather to be told how the good ole days were or is ignorance bliss in our case?*
*no disrespect toward anyone who feels at a loss by this recent news
0 -
Paul, I'll speak for myself. L3 worked/works like lightening on my past and present computers. I upgraded to L4 a year ago and ever since it's like trying to run in knee deep mud. From Bob's (i.e. Logos') perspective, they've stepped out and now must "go with it." If I were in their shows I'd be forced to make the same decisions. Taking risks, that's what owning a business is all about. And once you've decided on a plan, there's no turning back or else you'll lose face and the confidence of your clients.
Like I said, I'm speaking only for myself.
0 -
Stephen Edward Paynter said:Bob Pritchett said:
I'm sorry our announcement is late; we are planning to drop support for Libronix edition of new releases. It's been over 2 years since we moved to Logos 4, and most of our users have moved to it.
Dear Bob,
I feel deeply upset about this. When I purchased L3 (before L4 existed) I read carefully your policy on a husband and wife (one of whom was in unpaid work) both using L3 on one licience; and although not explicitly stated it seemed that there was a clear nod that this was okay. So ... my wife and I heavily invested in Logos resources. She is now a PhD student in OT, and I am one in NT.
Then came L4, and I moved to it immediately. However, there was a nasty fly in the ointment ... it was now so integrated with the internet that only one set up for it was possible ... making it frustrating for a husband and wife to use together.
However, my wife was happy to continue with L3, and so we continued (and continue) to invest heavily in new resources for Logos - downloading both the L4 and the L3 resources.
I am totally dismayed by this news - I don't know what to do. I don't know whether or not to continue to purchase L4 resources ... (and a quick look at my order page, will show that I was planning to continue to spend significantly.)
The removal of L3, makes the need to be able to partition and share resources for L4 critical for those in situations like mine.
Please advise.
Yours sincerely, Stephen Paynter
I also am not happy to read this, but I completely saw it coming two years ago with the fiasco of the introduction of L4. I was not caught off guard.
0 -
Paul Newsome said:
I'll make this observation: the Mac user base has no access to Libronix as it was discontinued well before Lion was released. (unless you run a special emulator). I've read all the replies to get a sense for the disgust but feel oddly that I'm not missing out because I never really experienced Libronix in the first place. I think many newer users may be scratching our heads at these responses. Are we just ignorant? Is it like having to go to my grandfather to be told how the good ole days were or is ignorance bliss in our case?*
*no disrespect toward anyone who feels at a loss by this recent news
Paul, L5 will one day come out....and when it does, there is a chance that an announcement will be made that support for L4 will continue. Two years into L5, Logos will then suddenly drop support for L4. You, and all those who did not experience Libronix, will then experience the sense and level of frustration that those who have already gone this route are experiencing today.
One must always be wise in their spending habits, knowing that whatever policy exists today, may be taken away tomorrow.
0 -
Very true. Logos has made tremendous progress since L4 came out. Still, it is the worst program that I use (and why I still use L3) as it relates to performance. L4 (beta) is now taking close to 30 minutes to start.Shawn Drewett said:it's like trying to run in knee deep mud.
0 -
Paul Newsome said:
I've read all the replies to get a sense for the disgust but feel oddly that I'm not missing out because I never really experienced Libronix in the first place. I think many newer users may be scratching our heads at these responses.
History does tend to repeat itself. I was once told by a wise pastor, that a way a young lady treats her father would be pretty close to the way she would treat her husband (and visa versa with young men). The way LOGOS treats previous customers who faithfully supported them and bought crazy expensive "licences" to be locked into their free platform, will be pretty close to the way they treat future customers. Actually, with time things tend to get worse.
Paul Newsome said:Are we just ignorant? Is it like having to go to my grandfather to be told how the good ole days were or is ignorance bliss in our case?*
Proverbs 22:3 The prudent sees danger and hides himself, but the simple go on and suffer for it.
The issue to me is not so much inability to use Libronix now (I have sufficient backups, archived emails with links to purchased resources, knowledge of FTP location of L3 resources, etc.), The issue to me is CUSTOMER SERVICE and respect. I've already voiced my concerns over "nagging," it falls in the same category.
Here is the irony: disabling all the links to L3 resources on my order pages took time and effort, time and effort which could have been put in enhancing customer experience - managing the transition better! Assuring customers that spent an equivalent of an Eastern European country's GDP, that their licenses are going to retain value for a very-very long time. Offering the same "wild push" to address customer questions and concerns on the phone as they did with the Dec 26th Sales Event.
And what did Logos get by disabling access to PURCHASED L3 resources? Only alienation, angst and resentment.
note: text above was edited after it was originally posted.
0 -
Mark said:
Paul, L5 will one day come out....and when it does, there is a chance that an announcement will be made that support for L4 will continue. Two years into L5, Logos will then suddenly drop support for L4. You, and all those who did not experience Libronix, will then experience the sense and level of frustration that those who have already gone this route are experiencing today.
One must always be wise in their spending habits, knowing that whatever policy exists today, may be taken away tomorrow.
Mark, do I need to experience it after reading this thread. There have been many that have communicated their frustration very clearly here in this thread. I encourage each one who has been frustrated by this announcement to contact Logos personally (and some have!). My fear is that some who have perceived an injustice will only post in this thread and then live disgruntled with the way they see Logos Bible Software. That's no way to live! Mark, you also implicated that I'll be frustrated at the future release of Logos per the current situation. Based on my L4 experience I continue to think I'll be pleasantly surprised. It does irk me that not everyone shares my experience and I don't like that you and others have been frustrated as you have with the software.
0 -
I am and have been and will be an avid promoter of L3. It can't do everything that L4 can do, but that goes both ways. For me, the things L3 does that L4 doesn't are a huge trump card. L4 has been missing so many things I use on a constant daily basis that it took a long time to cope with the frustration. I like the things L4 does well, but it cannot and never will hold a candle to L3 in many crucial ways--notes being the most obvious.
I don't despise L4, but I do despise what L4 did to L3, without so much as attemtping to fill its shoes. If someone offered me $1 million dollars and unfettered access to the entire Logos stable of resources on the single condition that I give up L3, I would have to regretfully turn that offer down. My ability to create notes that pop-up and can be as big as my screen allows me to create presentations and put right into my Bible all the information I need to unravel the Bible's mysteries. L4, on the other hand, is a fancy search engine.
In the gaming industry, certain companies provide end users the ability to code their own changes and upgrades to the off-the-shelf game. As a result, one can often find so-called "mods" that provide an end user experience that is far superior to the original game. I would love to see Bob find a new owner for L3. He doesn't appreciate it because he is now focused on his new babies (L4, the cloud, phone apps, Vyrso, Proclaim, etc.). He talks a lot about the short-comings of L3. I will take those short-comings and its functionality any day over anything Logos has produced in the last 5 years.
I concur with others that the "out of the blue" nature of this announcement, right after a promotion whose purpose was to generate hundreds or thousands of dollars worth of Logos "credit" is a SCANDAL. What good is Logos credit to a user of L3 when L3 files have been discontinued???? On top of that, if I had known that it was my final chance to get L3 resources, I may have gone ahead and purchased the Master Collection.
As it stands, I will be getting refunds on anything I can't use in L3, and cancelling my thousands of dollars of CPs. I guess I'm done with Logos. Actually, I think it may be a sign from God that I already have all I need.
ASUS ProArt x570s Creator, AMD R9 5950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, ASUS Strix RTX 2080 ti
"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
0 -
toughski said:Paul Newsome said:
I've read all the replies to get a sense for the disgust but feel oddly that I'm not missing out because I never really experienced Libronix in the first place. I think many newer users may be scratching our heads at these responses.
History does tend to repeat itself. I was once told by a wise pastor, that a way a young lady treats her father would be pretty close to the way she would treat her husband (and visa versa with young men). The way LOGOS treats previous customers who faithfully supported them and bought crazy expensive "licences" to be locked into their free platform, will be pretty close to the way they treat future customers. Actually, with time things tend to get worse.
Paul Newsome said:Are we just ignorant? Is it like having to go to my grandfather to be told how the good ole days were or is ignorance bliss in our case?*
Proverbs 22:3 The prudent sees danger and hides himself, but the simple go on and suffer for it.
I and many others have yet to suffer at the hands of Logos. I see what you're saying Toughski yet if we believed Logos did not improve on its opportunities none of us would be on this board. My aim is not to sound like a hold out or a "model user" by any means. I do hope that those who are disgruntled or even concerned by this experience make an effort to dialogue with Logos beyond this forum.
0 -
Well, Paul ... you're one of my favorites on the forum. Andy also impresses me, keeping an even-keel when someone took what was most precious to him (his identity). But 'dialoging' with Logos will be unavoidable in the next couple of weeks (the 30-day return period). Yesterday, I was a little surprised. This morning I was thinking I really HAD gone over budget on Logos (with a good chance to reverse course). And now, I'm 50-50 depending on if Bob wakes up from his nap to see how his small bomb-tossing exercise is coming along.
A poster above is right though. The brothers DO get wound up on selling; just not supporting. It reminds me a lot of electric car companies (we have one here).
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0 -
David Paul said:
On top of that, if I had known that it was my final chance to get L3 resources, I may have gone ahead and purchased the Master Collection.
David, I believe all the resources produced up to Jan 1, 2012 still exist in both Libronix and L4 format. So, in essence, you still are able to buy the Maters' Collection now (without a very good discount) and use it in Libronix unless your faith in Logos completely evaporated. It might be wise for Logos to host the Libronix files for a very, very long time.
Paul Newsome said:My aim is not to sound like a hold out or a "model user" by any means. I do hope that those who are disgruntled or even concerned by this experience make an effort to dialogue with Logos beyond this forum
Paul Newsome said:I encourage each one who has been frustrated by this announcement to contact Logos personally (and some have!). My fear is that some who have perceived an injustice will only post in this thread and then live disgruntled with the way they see Logos Bible Software. That's no way to live!
I am not disgruntled [:D], and I appreciate the freedom to dialogue with Logos by voting with my wallet
0 -
[quote user=
0 -
Bob Pritchett said:
I'm sorry our announcement is late; we are planning to drop support for Libronix edition of new releases. It's been over 2 years since we moved to Logos 4, and most of our users have moved to it.
Has there been an announcement? Where?- I don't remember having seen any!
This decision cannot have been a sudden one - it takes a lot of planning on many levels. But it has been slipped in on the customers: “- There are so few Libronix users left, so most won't even notice!”
This may well be so but I feel so sad about it!Bob Pritchett said:As we add more functionality and support for richer tagging to Logos 4, it's harder and more time-consuming to build Libronix-compatible editions. And while there are still Libronix users, they typically aren't frequent/active purchasers of new content. (They are increasingly, by definition, people who don't upgrade/buy a lot of new things.)
I fully understand that Libronix files cannot be created and supported forever. But I feel so run over (most other companies announce in good advance from which date things will change. Why has it just been slipped in? It would have been so easy to write a blog: “from {so and so date} it will no longer be possible to download Libronix files from your order page - so if you need to get the scripts and the files - go and get them before it's too late!”
- or in the sales bombardment before Christmas to put 'Libronix files' in among the books (like Vyrso and pre-pubs) you would NOT be able to buy with your credits!
- or on the pre-pub page to write: “this/these work/-s will only be available in Logos 4”.
Not all Libronix-users are non-buying users. I for one have bought for several thousand $ each year over the last years. This Christmas I bought enough books to get to the 40% prize bracket. I have been in good faith that I would be able to spend the credits on Libronix files - until I in advance would be otherwise informed.
I have signed up for pre-pubs and community prizing books for several thousand $ (and yes - I would probably have cancelled some of them) - but again it would have been soooo easy for Logos to write on the information page: “These books will only be available in Logos 4”- and that would have settled the matter.Bob Pritchett said:We believe the time is right to drop Libronix support on new releases so that we can put our resources into other efforts.
I know many people do still use Libronix, and we're not disabling it, we're just not going to keep putting more and more effort into supporting it with new releases. I apologize for the disconnect between the change in releases and the announcement; if you need to return a resource we'll be happy to help you with that.
This last statement is enormously arrogant and manipulative!
Logos has been a HUUGE investment for me - both in time and money. The choosing of a platform is a very serious matter. I'm sure Logos is well aware of this when they make a sales bombardement as the one they did in December (- how many people want to buy NICOT/NICNT twice - and start highlighting and writing notes all over?)
I don't object to Logos' plans to discontinue distributing Libronix files in the future. It cannot be otherwise, but the switch is highly sensitive. People have all kinds of legitimate (- and a few maybe not-so-legitimate) reasons for using Libronix, but until Logos 4 works just as well as Libronix it's not fair to discontinue.
However, the secretly 'slipping-in' of the thing is very disturbing!Elisabet
0 -
Make it open source.[:D]James Chaisson said:That would be great. Let someone else have Libronix so we can continue to use and even buy new titles through them. I don't think that will happen but would be great.
James Chaisson said:At this point I just want my money back and I will go somewhere else. I m done with Logos. I hope they refund my money but I will have to wait for a reply from CS.
I'm not trying to minimize your trauma so let us look at this with pragmatism. Our Libronix installations will still function today like they did yesterday. It looks like Logos is maintaining it's ftp site for Libronix files. There are even some Logos 2.0 files hosted there. The resources we will miss out on are not being taken away, they just never showed up. So the Libronix program we have used all these years is still functional.
In light of the above paragraph I doubt Logos owes refunds for anything previous to the last 30 days. Asking for a 100% refund for everything you have purchased is like driving an automobile for 4 years and then trying to return it to the dealer because features on newer models are not retrofitted to your aging model. Getting a refund for purchases made in December is certainly within our rights. Refunding everybody everything they have ever spent is not possible. How many $6000 order history refunds do you think it would take to bankrupt Logos?
Logos has approximately 17,000 resources in their catalog. It is possible that number includes a few hundred currently in development. Of the other 16,000+ titles, most have a Libronix format file. As long as we have access to those files we still have a substantial library equaled by no other Bible software company. It would help a lot of die-hard Libronix users if Logos would continue to offer those resources in the general catalog that are already in Libronix format.. That includes everything in the Portfolio Collection, the Master Collection, The Catholic Scholars package, the Black Friday Library Builders, the 501 book unlock from Nelson, and so on. Another chance to buy some of these with the great deals that were available with would be helpful. None of us were making an informed buying decision during the great sales push from Black Friday to New Years Day. Logos knew what was coming, we did not.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
0 -
Super Tramp said:
I'm not trying to minimize your trauma so let us look at this with pragmatism. Our Libronix installations will still function today like they did yesterday. It looks like Logos is maintaining it's ftp site for Libronix files. There are even some Logos 2.0 files hosted there. The resources we will miss out on are not being taken away, they just never showed up. So the Libronix program we have used all these years is still functional.
In light of the above paragraph I doubt Logos owes refunds for anything previous to the last 30 days. Asking for a 100% refund for everything you have purchased is like driving an automobile for 4 years and then trying to return it to the dealer because features on newer models are not retrofitted to your aging model. Getting a refund for purchases made in December is certainly within our rights. Refunding everybody everything they have ever spent is not possible. How many $6000 order history refunds do you think it would take to bankrupt Logos?
Logos has approximately 17,000 resources in their catalog. It is possible that number includes a few hundred currently in development. Of the other 16,000+ titles, most have a Libronix format file. As long as we have access to those files we still have a substantial library equaled by no other Bible software company. It would help a lot of die-hard Libronix users if Logos would continue to offer those resources in the general catalog that are already in Libronix format.. That includes everything in the Portfolio Collection, the Master Collection, The Catholic Scholars package, the Black Friday Library Builders, the 501 book unlock from Nelson, and so on. Another chance to buy some of these with the great deals that were available with would be helpful. None of us were making an informed buying decision during the great sales push from Black Friday to New Years Day. Logos knew what was coming, we did not.
[Y]
0 -
What Logos need to do is to have a transparent and public development plan, detailing when legacy products will cease to be developed or indeed dropped altogether, the people can make their own decisions.
Logos also needs to be more open about development plans, particularly when will Logos 4 have parity with the features much loved in Logo 3. It would be nice if people could know with confidence if the issues people find with logos 4 will be addressed (perhaps even in Logos 5 which will only be an update anyway).
I can understand that such openess causes problems and pressures on Logos but there has got to be some middle ground and there can be no excuse for just pulling the rug from under those who thought (probably foolishly, but that is not the point) that they were investing into a Logos 3 system.
I fully support the decision to depreciate Logos 3 support, it makes sense for eveyone for resources to be applied to the future of the platform and it is this very development that should give us confidence in Logos, but Logos has got to stop being so secretive and high handed, it does not build confidence.
0 -
True, corporate communications is always a challenge.
For those old enough, remember the Edsel? Yes, it was cold winter's day that Ford slipped in a late Friday message 'oh, by the way, we ah won't be ah producing the Edsel, starting uh about now ...'
Then there was the Corvair. That announcement was in the fifth game of the world series.
Of course, who could forget the name of the one with a burnished silver skin .... remember their announcement? That was indeed unforgettable.
Yes, when you'd like people to forget, you kind of forget to announce it.
And certainly for good reason with Logos4. It's still trying hard to meet the perfomance of .... yes ... the best software ever written. Who can forget?
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0 -
Whoa! Let's all just calm down for a moment... Please don't return all your software or burn down our buildings at least until the weekend is over, and we can get our team together in a room! :-)
First: I'm very sorry for the surprise of this. I take full responsibility. The text development department asked me a month or two ago (I don't even recall when!) if we could stop producing new Libronix-compatible files at the end of 2011, and after hearing all the reasons and expenses, I agreed.
I personally failed to think through all the implications, failed to map "end of this year" to "Christmas special season", and I didn't assign anyone to coordinate communications.
This is my failure, and I'm sorry.
So word did filter through the organization, and people did the things that made sense (like removing the links to the Libronix files in emails, web pages, etc.) but nobody put together a plan. Some things were unanticipated consequences: we are only ending development of new resources in Libronix format, not retiring or hiding existing ones, but the system that shows download information after a purchase is only technically able to show one set of instructions -- it wasn't coded to show different instructions for different books -- so someone went ahead and just stripped Libronix download information out of all the communications, because it wouldn't work for the new releases.
We should have handled the communication better, and provided advance notice. I apologize for this failure.
Some clarification:
- We haven't disabled or taken anything away. While I understand the emotional feeling you may have about this if you hate Logos 4 (or can't run it for some reason), this isn't some sort of theft or betrayal. We provided what you bought. You've been using it for years. It still works today. It even still works in the future, (which is more than you can say for lots of other software after a new version has been released). You have the files we sold you. (Libronix wasn't even sold with a cloud model, so we never promised cloud access to Libronix-format books. None the less, you still have it -- we haven't taken down the FTP site, and have no plans to.)
- We aren't "killing" support, we're just moving the web pages to an archive to avoid confusion for the vast majority of our users, who don't know what Libronix is and found those articles in the way. We're not training new customer service agents in Libronix, but we're not firing the existing team that does know it. We were answering questions about Logos v1.6 (from 1993) and the LLS (1995) till just recently.
- Our cloud-connected Logos 4 works offline, as we have well documented and described. This is much more secure and "back-up-able" than most cloud solutions, which are truly in the cloud and truly inaccessible if the server goes offline. Logos could go dark, and you can run what's on your system. You can use your own local tools to back up your books, your license file, your documents, etc. Back up your system, and run Logos in offline mode, and you're fine indefinitely.
- Your Libronix install, files, and keys need the server even less. So nothing we do -- up to and including going out of business or having our offices wiped out by a tsunami -- takes that away from you. Yes, you need to back up your files rather than counting on an easy download link from the archived orders page. But A) that's the way it was and is with older software -- nothing new, and
we aren't taking down the FTP server. You can still get the files.Time marches on, and technology does as well. I can understand the surprise, and agree we should have communicated the plan in advance. But I think the "I'm going to return everything I ever bought!" and "I've been betrayed!" sentiments are a bit harsh.
Do you expect all software to be supported as-is forever? That every new release will never take away or change anything from the previous? That all new products will be compatible with older products for all time?
Even if you love, love, love Windows XP, when Microsoft announces that some new product will require Vista or later, do you demand a refund of the purchase of your still functioning XP installation? When Apple switched operating systems, and then processors, did you demand a refund for everything you'd bought for OS 9 or Motorola or PowerPC processors?
Really -- is that fair? We haven't disabled what you bought from us. We don't even disable it if you upgrade to the (free) Logos 4 engine -- they run side-by-side! Which is more than you can say for an OS upgrade... The only thing that changed is that we aren't releasing new products for the old platform. (That we did for more than two years actually seems unusual to me.)
With that said, we don't want anyone to feel cheated. We haven't changed our returns policy. If you ordered a pre-pub that shipped in the last week Logos-4-only when you were expecting Libronix, of course we can refund that. If you have outstanding pre-pubs that haven't shipped, you may want to cancel them.
Again, I apologize for the poor communication. I will create a new post explaining our future plans to help prevent this from happening again around Logos 5 and beyond.
-- Bob
0 -
Whew, that was close. Obviously Bob's team gets on it when a decision gets made.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0 -
Bob, Thanks for the reply. What you said is what I understood from your original announcement but it seems others had a different impression. Thanks for taking the time, on a Saturday, to clarify.
Dr. Kurt Trucksess
www.christ2Rculture.com0 -
A more positive spin is that this is an opportunity to participate in a larger and much more important event...Management's vision of what bible software should be.
0 -
ST and others here:
This announcement has created significant anxiety for those using Libronix.... and due to the fact that probably most L4 users may be unaware of the issues, awakened many fears about the security of their own purchases and libraries.
For my part, I signed on back in LLS days or before... and just mindlessly upgraded to the new versions as time went on. I don't recall if I ever paid for an upgrade (well, no wait... I seem to recall a $69 crossover upgrade that I paid). But I am assuming (from my library list) that all of the resources I had purchased back in the beginning days are still being accessed in L4.
>SECTION DELETED DUE TO GREAT CLARIFICATION FROM BOB... SECTION NO LONGER PERTINENT. AS EXPECTED, GOOD INTENTIONS AND INNOCENT MISTAKE ON LOGOS PART. TRUST THEY WILL MAKE IT RIGHT!<
But here's what I wonder if I could ask some of you more experienced users to do.... We are all terrified of losing access to our libraries. Some because of where we are located and Internet access stinks. Some because of being burned in the past. Some because we've seen even the best of companies suddenly implode and vanish. WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO EXPLAIN IN SIMPLE (VERY SIMPLE, NON-COMPUTER GEEK LANGUAGE) FOR THE REST OF US... what the basic issues are, what kind of scenarios do we need to prepare for, and step by step, how can we best ensure the security of our investments (knowing there is no fail safe method) in the event of a company melt down (like say Bob and all the other senior management at Logos get hit by a wildly careening out-of-control Bellingham bus while crossing the street at the same time after a joint Starbuck's break), a company sale which may NOT include continuing support (or support in a form that we would not want to take up), or in the event that some of us (due to age or declining financial resources) can't keep up with buying upgrades or learning new versions (I'm STILL struggling to learn L4... not sure how easily I'll be able to do that again in 10 or 20 years), or can't afford to make (the probably inevitable) system upgrades to run future versions, and will need to stick with older hardware?
Please, this is a really significant concern for many of us, and we need your help, brothers (and sisters), to make wise decisions and to properly prepare. Will you help us? Us non-techies probably will need some gentle hand holding here as you guide us on the right path. I've lost a life library before (dead tree version) of more than 10,000 volumes (for which I never received Logos discounts, so there was nothing padded or bundled there, and it was a WHOPPING investment over a whole lot of years... and from which I will never be able to fully recover, as it included all of my life's study and ministry notes), so I'm a bit sensitive about this and can too easily freak out in threads such as these.
(trying not to hyperventilate [:S] )
0 -
Bob Pritchett said:
We were answering questions about Logos v1.6 (from 1993) and the LLS (1995) till just recently.
What?? You quietly discontinued support for v1.6 and LLS? I can't believe that!
Just kidding! [;)]
Thanks, Bob, for your detailed reply as always, and God bless you my brother!
Peter
0 -
Bob Pritchett said:
Whoa! Let's all just calm down for a moment... Please don't return all your software or burn down our buildings at least until the weekend is over, and we can get our team together in a room! :-)
First: I'm very sorry for the surprise of this. I take full responsibility. The text development department asked me a month or two ago (I don't even recall when!) if we could stop producing new Libronix-compatible files at the end of 2011, and after hearing all the reasons and expenses, I agreed.
I personally failed to think through all the implications, failed to map "end of this year" to "Christmas special season", and I didn't assign anyone to coordinate communications.
This is my failure, and I'm sorry.
So word did filter through the organization, and people did the things that made sense (like removing the links to the Libronix files in emails, web pages, etc.) but nobody put together a plan. Some things were unanticipated consequences: we are only ending development of new resources in Libronix format, not retiring or hiding existing ones, but the system that shows download information after a purchase is only technically able to show one set of instructions -- it wasn't coded to show different instructions for different books -- so someone went ahead and just stripped Libronix download information out of all the communications, because it wouldn't work for the new releases.
We should have handled the communication better, and provided advance notice. I apologize for this failure.
Some clarification:
- We haven't disabled or taken anything away. While I understand the emotional feeling you may have about this if you hate Logos 4 (or can't run it for some reason), this isn't some sort of theft or betrayal. We provided what you bought. You've been using it for years. It still works today. It even still works in the future, (which is more than you can say for lots of other software after a new version has been released). You have the files we sold you. (Libronix wasn't even sold with a cloud model, so we never promised cloud access to Libronix-format books. None the less, you still have it -- we haven't taken down the FTP site, and have no plans to.)
- We aren't "killing" support, we're just moving the web pages to an archive to avoid confusion for the vast majority of our users, who don't know what Libronix is and found those articles in the way. We're not training new customer service agents in Libronix, but we're not firing the existing team that does know it. We were answering questions about Logos v1.6 (from 1993) and the LLS (1995) till just recently.
- Our cloud-connected Logos 4 works offline, as we have well documented and described. This is much more secure and "back-up-able" than most cloud solutions, which are truly in the cloud and truly inaccessible if the server goes offline. Logos could go dark, and you can run what's on your system. You can use your own local tools to back up your books, your license file, your documents, etc. Back up your system, and run Logos in offline mode, and you're fine indefinitely.
- Your Libronix install, files, and keys need the server even less. So nothing we do -- up to and including going out of business or having our offices wiped out by a tsunami -- takes that away from you. Yes, you need to back up your files rather than counting on an easy download link from the archived orders page. But A) that's the way it was and is with older software -- nothing new, and
we aren't taking down the FTP server. You can still get the files.Time marches on, and technology does as well. I can understand the surprise, and agree we should have communicated the plan in advance. But I think the "I'm going to return everything I ever bought!" and "I've been betrayed!" sentiments are a bit harsh.
Do you expect all software to be supported as-is forever? That every new release will never take away or change anything from the previous? That all new products will be compatible with older products for all time?
Even if you love, love, love Windows XP, when Microsoft announces that some new product will require Vista or later, do you demand a refund of the purchase of your still functioning XP installation? When Apple switched operating systems, and then processors, did you demand a refund for everything you'd bought for OS 9 or Motorola or PowerPC processors?
Really -- is that fair? We haven't disabled what you bought from us. We don't even disable it if you upgrade to the (free) Logos 4 engine -- they run side-by-side! Which is more than you can say for an OS upgrade... The only thing that changed is that we aren't releasing new products for the old platform. (That we did for more than two years actually seems unusual to me.)
With that said, we don't want anyone to feel cheated. We haven't changed our returns policy. If you ordered a pre-pub that shipped in the last week Logos-4-only when you were expecting Libronix, of course we can refund that. If you have outstanding pre-pubs that haven't shipped, you may want to cancel them.
Again, I apologize for the poor communication. I will create a new post explaining our future plans to help prevent this from happening again around Logos 5 and beyond.
-- Bob
Thanks Bob for your response. I think most of us would be happy to be able to download/update our current L3 files one last time.
0 -
YAY BOB!!!! Great clarification! I'm so glad to hear it was as I suspected, just an understandable oversight, and you took ownership of that and the communications issues... things often happen innocently and with good intent... and there is almost always a non-sinister explanation. Thanks for providing that. I agree with the step you are making (not that you need my approval, its your company after all [;)] ), even while I understand some of the concerns from some users, but as I wrote, I trust you'll make it right. I appreciate that about you and Logos very much.
My request still remains, however... could some of you elder brothers and sisters (in terms of computer and Logos knowledge) help give the rest of us a little peace of mind and advise us a bit step by step on how we can protect our investments as much as possible (in terms we can understand)? It really would be a very great service!!!
0 -
I've been using L4 for so long now that I hardly even remember how to use L3.
0 -
EmileB said:
Please, this is a really significant concern for many of us, and we need your help, brothers (and sisters), to make wise decisions and to properly prepare. Will you help us? Us non-techies probably will need some gentle hand holding here as you guide us on the right path. I've lost a life library before (dead tree version) of more than 10,000 volumes (for which I never received Logos discounts, so there was nothing padded or bundled there, and it was a WHOPPING investment over a whole lot of years... and from which I will never be able to fully recover, as it included all of my life's study and ministry notes), so I'm a bit sensitive about this and can too easily freak out in threads such as these.
I'd like to put some thought to this Emile, and others will as well. But in the interim much of this has in some way been done at the Wiki. In particular Step 1 of http://wiki.logos.com/Quick_Installation_onto_multiple_computers contains much if not all of what is required.
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
TCBlack said:
I'd like to put some thought to this Emile, and others will as well. But in the interim much of this has in some way been done at the Wiki. In particular Step 1 of http://wiki.logos.com/Quick_Installation_onto_multiple_computers contains much if not all of what is required.
Thanks TC! I'd hoped you'd be one of those who'd respond, because I have sensed you are very much up to speed on these things. I'm really not.
I did go to the wiki link you provided, and then clicked on the link for the Mac instructions as I have a Mac. It will help some, but it doesn't seem to cover what I need. Believe it or not, even reading through what's there is rather a challenge for some of us who just aren't used to working in those areas. I'm sure that makes me sound as dumb as a rock, but it really is the case for a lot of us, despite being intelligent in other areas. I struggle to keep my eyes from glazing over when reading this kind of material. But I will really work on it.
I think what a lot of us need is something like this (kinda like "Saving Yourself From a Logos Library Disaster for Dummies" approach):
INTRO
"okay, these are hypothetical things that could one day happen, and why you need to prepare"
PREPARING
"Here is how you can prepare yourself for this particular scenario: ___________"
"Okay, there are x number of files that you need to copy/download to make sure that you can always access a) your version of Logos and b) the resources you have purchased, and c) your personal notes/content." (and anything else we gotta have).
"The first file you need is this: ____________. This file does this: __________________. This is where you find it: ___________. This is what it looks like: ___________. Copy (or download) it to here: _______ This is how you do that: _________________.
"The next file you need is this: ____________. It does this: ___________________. This is where you find it: ____________. This is what it looks like: ___________. Copy (or download) it to here: _______. This is how you do that: _________________."
"The next file (etc)......"
"Okay, now that you have these x files, save them to (USB harddrive? Flash drive? CD ROM? etc. )"
How secure (long-lasting) is such a storage solution?
How often should we repeat these steps?
RESTORING
"Okay, let's assume the worst. Logos no longer exists, or you can no longer access Logos via the Internet, or you have to continue with an older version (etc)."
"Do this first."
"Do this second."
"Do this third (etc.)"
"Say a prayer of thanks and blessings upon TC (and others) who taught you how to do this and saved your.... ummmm... library."
You see, TC, part of the problem is that some of us don't even know all the things that we need to think about, or all that we need to save or back up, or why. So we don't even know where to start. That's part of what makes the "quick installation on multiple computers" wiki really confusing. Some of us don't even know HOW to back up our computers (I knew on my PC, but I still haven't got it figured out on the Mac... I did see some links to that in the wiki, and I'll explore that).
I might be painting myself a bit more ignorant than I am (probably not much)... but I'll bet there are lots of users as clueless or (God forbid!) even more so than I. That's why we need a REALLY simple, REALLY straight forward, REALLY clear, step-by step guide in as simple English as possible, covering each of the things that we need to do, assuming no computer knowledge at all. Is this possible (or something close?)??
Thanks for your time and any input that you are willing to provide!
0 -
I think Emile's request is best illustrated with an earlier thread today:
http://community.logos.com/forums/t/43244.aspx
JimT:
How can I obtain my "License Keys" for my purchases without needing to go online?
Apologies: Logos 4 does not have a supported way to export/import your resource licenses. Logos 4 always uses network connection to sync your license information.
Wiki has => Quick Installation onto multiple computers whose steps (in all 3 methods) include unchecking Automatic Download so can use network to sign-in and sync your Logos 4 resource licenses.
Logos support has => http://www.logos.com/L4/support/InstallingfromInternet with online installation and download.KSFJ I think is an expert user and the answer seems to be 'not'? (regarding totally offline)
Bob earlier in 2009 answered the issue with the same verbage as today ... essentially some type of image backup. Emile is far ahead of me and thus for the time being Libronix is the only 'sure' deal (since I've installed it twice offline with resources / licenses). An image backup has too many pitfalls?
I'm familiar with method#2 of setting up a 2nd pc; I did that with my new pc from my old. But I didn't see an easy totally offline solution (assuming Logos.inc dead).
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0 -
Bob Pritchett said:
Whoa! Let's all just calm down for a moment...
No kidding, Bob.
There are a handful of very helpful folks on the forums, and I've learned quite a bit about L4 from them. They have my thanks.
But one other thing I've learned (and certainly not from the group cited in the previous sentence) is, there are some INCREDIBLY CHILDISH PEOPLE who have purchased Logos software and have no problem making their amazingly bad attitudes public on these forums. (Even more disturbing, some of them are active in the pastorate.)
As I've said elsewhere, it's best to stay away from these forums unless you have a specific question. Browsing here will ruin your Christian walk. And that is sad.
Semper Fi.
Eating a steady diet of government cheese, and living in a van down by the river.
0 -
Bob's getting quite a bit of help from the 'docs' today ... Bob's probably never met any 'forum' children, and needs a little extra help. Everyone loves the putdown. Especially the Christians....
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0 -
EmileB said:
what the basic issues are, what kind of scenarios do we need to prepare for, and step by step, how can we best ensure the security of our investments (knowing there is no fail safe method) in the event of a company melt down (like say Bob and all the other senior management at Logos get hit by a wildly careening out-of-control Bellingham bus while crossing the street at the same time after a joint Starbuck's break), a company sale which may NOT include continuing support (or support in a form that we would not want to take up)
Well, first, let me point out that we have a great coffee shop right on the ground floor of our headquarters, with a private interior entrance. So you never have to worry about us getting hit on the way to Starbucks.
(See http://bellinghamflatiron.com/ -- coffee shop is behind the wooden doors, and my desk is just below the flag pole. Interior entrance at the back hallway, where the elevator is. No exposure to buses!)
I'd say your investment in Logos-compatible books is pretty safe.
Safety Reason #1: As I often point out, ours is not a pure cloud solution. You don't lose access if our servers go down. As long as you back up your computer (which you already do, right?) your Logos books are -- even if Washington State is wiped out by a volcano -- still in your possession and control. (To my mind, this is actually the weak point -- I've lost more data from my own hardware than from any cloud based solution...)
Safety Reason #2: We're big enough to matter. This isn't bragging, it's a practical point: there are well over half a million people with Logos.com accounts. In a purchase, no one would buy us to throw away those customers, or even to antagonize them. even in bankruptcy all of you, and your continued happiness and spending, are a very valuable asset. (Ever notice that when airlines go bankrupt the first thing they do is assure everyone that their frequent flyer miles are safe? Same point.)
Safety Reason #3: The user base is huge. Our technology / encryption / book looking isn't Fort Knox. If someone purchases the whole company simply to get my amazing chili recipe, then throws away the entire customer base after locking all 250 employees who know our secrets in unbreakable confidentiality contracts, some technically inclined users will break open the books, we won't exist to sue them into oblivion, and your normal reticence to use hacked warez will be overcome by your moral ownership of the licenses. (You will, of course only use the hack to re-acquire any books you'd legally purchased, and lost when a tsunami wiped out your own backup system.)
Safety Reason #4: We're privately held and profitable enough to likely continue in business. I've already been tempted by fabulous riches, browsed a catalog of boats, and taken a chartered sail around the bay (entertaining the interns). I learned that boating is only fun for about 2-3 hours once a summer on a perfect day, and doesn't hold a candle to doing cool work with awesome people for the greatest customers in the world: people who study and teach God's Word.
(I will, however, be taking the interns out on a chartered boat each summer, though. Tell the smartest college kids you know.)
Safety Reason #5: We're enamored with what's cool and next, so it's likely we'll keep breaking new ground, doing cooler things, and (at the cost of annoying some customers who like things just as they are) making sure that we aren't soon replaced in the market by younger, smarter competitors not tied to old technology and legacy support issues.
Just kidding... forgive me! :-)
And the biggest, best argument for our safe survival... drum roll...
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/05/01/weekinreview/01safe.html
We're #3 on the New York Times' "Where to Live to Avoid a Natural Disaster" list -- and #2 is our neighboring city!
-- Bob
0 -
Bob Pritchett said:
Safety Reason #3: The user base is huge. Our technology / encryption / book looking isn't Fort Knox. If someone purchases the whole company simply to get my amazing chili recipe, then throws away the entire customer base after locking all 250 employees who know our secrets in unbreakable confidentiality contracts, some technically inclined users will break open the books, we won't exist to sue them into oblivion, and your normal reticence to use hacked warez will be overcome by your moral ownership of the licenses. (You will, of course only use the hack to re-acquire any books you'd legally purchased, and lost when a tsunami wiped out your own backup system.)
[:D] You know I am watching you like a hawk. [C]
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
0 -
My one concern with this is that V3 is being discontinued without promised features still a couple years later not being implemented into V4 and now talk of V5. The main one for me is the Sermon File Addin, hopefully this means it is right around the corner. It is the only reason I will still open Libronix on occasion. Some of this can be done in PBB, but not to the same level yet.
I love V4 for everything else, thankfully I caught the free offer on Sermon File, but many paid for it.
So Bob, is the updated Sermon File Addin still being implemented? If so, then the only two reasons left for Libronix would be for those that have a computer that won't run V4 and for those who don't like to change from what they are familiar with...
I think it is a smart business decision to save the cost, but do hope that we are still going to get the missing feature(s)...
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
0 -
toughski said:Super Tramp said:
If you think, "Fine, I will just use the "Librinox downloadable files" at the bottom of my order page.", Think again. Logos has not given us any Libronix file links for resources that have shipped the last couple of days.
Not only Logos has not given us any Libronix file links for resources that have shipped the last couple of days, they disabled all links for previous orders. How about common COURTESY:
Sorry if a later response has mentioned this..
But I still have the "Libronix Downloadable Files" links in Orders. You might have meant links in the Order Summary but that wasn't in the response you quoted.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
0 -
Please ignore if there has been a response already..
Ralph Mauch said:Also, I hope that all the resources in L3, that come up in L4 will still be there
I have over 200 resources in Libronix format in my Logos 4 Library, so that shouldn't be an issue.
Ralph Mauch said:will adding resources in L3 from another supplier "not" be available to import to L4?
This where Bob's announcement lacks clarity, but I would assume that Libronix resources will still be managed by CS because they are supported by L4 i.e. license still sync'd to L4 and resource be on the L4 server.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
0 -
Again, apologies if already answered..
toughski said:I would like to get an explanation of the differences between .logos4 and .lbxlls. Are .logos4 files so advanced that there can be no parser/viewer/converter for Libronix to simply display text, without all the bells and whistles added for L4? Even old MS Word could read new .docx format with a little FREE downloadable addon.
The basic difference was that L3 format resources included their own Index whereas L4 format has no Index (all resources have to be indexed on your computer). However, I doubt a Viewer would be provided as the aim (when L4 was released in 2009) was to support Libronix by continuing to supply resources in native format until Logos judged that L4 was sufficiently mature and users would have the equipment to handle L4 (but Netbooks were not anticipated).
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
0 -
ELA said:
I don't object to Logos' plans to discontinue distributing Libronix files in the future.
There isn't an embargo on existing Libronix format resources, whether intended for L3 or L4 but it appears that downloading them for L3 will be more difficult.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
0 -
Dave Hooton said:toughski said:Super Tramp said:
If you think, "Fine, I will just use the "Librinox downloadable files" at the bottom of my order page.", Think again. Logos has not given us any Libronix file links for resources that have shipped the last couple of days.
Not only Logos has not given us any Libronix file links for resources that have shipped the last couple of days, they disabled all links for previous orders. How about common COURTESY:
Sorry if a later response has mentioned this..
But I still have the "Libronix Downloadable Files" links in Orders. You might have meant links in the Order Summary but that wasn't in the response you quoted.
I stand corrected. My order page has many section and I haven't looked at the very bottom. I was wrong.
Here is what I saw at first:
when I clicked on the links, I got to the Order Summary which I believed once had a link to libronix autoinstall file (licence and resources).
anyway, when I scrolled to the bottom of my Orders page I saw this:
so, the resource links are still there, but the licence file isn't. It can be had by going Tools>Library Management>Restore Licences
0 -
Denise Barnhart said:
JimT:
How can I obtain my "License Keys" for my purchases without needing to go online?
Apologies: Logos 4 does not have a supported way to export/import your resource licenses. Logos 4 always uses network connection to sync your license information.
Wiki has => Quick Installation onto multiple computers whose steps (in all 3 methods) include unchecking Automatic Download so can use network to sign-in and sync your Logos 4 resource licenses.
Logos support has => http://www.logos.com/L4/support/InstallingfromInternet with online installation and download.KSFJ I think is an expert user and the answer seems to be 'not'? (regarding totally offline)
You can install Logos 4 totally offline (Method 1) and work with the resources, documents and preferences you had in your backup. You have to sign-in (offline)** to identify yourself as a valid User but then you continue to work offline using your existing resource licence**.
** all the necessary data to do this comes from the backup --> no need to get online.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
0 -
Thanks for the response Bob!
Now I'll just worry about you having a heart attack from your too-easy access to unlimited amounts of caffeine!
Seriously, though... I DO feel that my Logos investment is comparatively secure. I have significant confidence in what you are saying and that you and Logos will make things right. My Logos investment is safe for the foreseeable future. I didn't mean for my post to start a panicked mobbing of the exits. I meant it to affirm what you are doing, and to encourage us all to do what we should be doing to ensure access. You are right as a CEO to write and reassure your customers of the company's long-term viability. And I believe in that.
That said, there are just some things that are not foreseeable... and we'd be unwise and poor stewards not to prepare for such as much as it depends upon us. Even your posts suggest the need for us to backup our resources. And (duh) some of us aren't too good at knowing how to do that very well. It sounds like there are some simple things we can do to provide a level of additional confidence, and I think it would be helpful for those who know about how to do that to help those of us out a bit who don't. Then we'll all sleep a little better.
In actuality, I'm worried not so much about my lifetime, but for the next generation. No, I'm NOT expecting Logos to endlessly ensure my LLS stuff is workable. But there are issues that come up. And maybe they'll come up once you and I are both long gone, and have no control over that.
BTW... a recent example. Some of us had invested in Pradis (only because at the time Logos didn't have some needed resources that Pradis had). Well, Zondervan is a fairly reputable company, too (whether more or less than Logos isn't the issue... I'll concede that it is perhaps less). However, Zondervan bailed on Pradis and ceased support. They helpfully provided the resources to Logos. But we had to pay for the privilege of buying access again to our resources. And to make matters worse, some of those resources still haven't been released that were once available in Pradis (I'm not at all blaming Logos, as I am assuming that is Zondervan's call). I am thinking for example of The New International Dictionary of Biblical Archaeology, which I referred to CONSTANTLy and is one of my most critically used resources for teaching. Let's say, as an example, that Logos does get bought out by some one else... sure they won't dump half a million customers... but what if there is a charge, or upgrading of software or hardware, that will be necessary to continue accessing our Logos resources (such as occurred with Pradis?) Some of us may not be able to afford to make that lateral move (I know I wouldn't be able to do that a second time)... or perhaps we just wouldn't be able to take on the demands of a new learning curve at that stage of our lives, and would like to continue to use what we have. And as good as your intentions are, you can't guarantee that we won't face that, or that or kids won't when we pass on our libraries (btw- thanks for that privilege)... no one can guarantee what another company may do down the road.
So, I'm just trying to be a good steward, Bob, without trying to cast any aspersions at all on Logos or the decisions Logos has made. I understand that there are some steps I can or should take to safeguard my investment as much as it lies within me to do so. I'm just asking our friends on the forum for a little help with that.
With trust and appreciation in you and your company!
0 -
Bob Pritchett said:
(I will, however, be taking the interns out on a chartered boat each summer, though. Tell the smartest college kids you know.)
Safety Reason #5: We're enamored with what's cool and next, so it's likely we'll keep breaking new ground, doing cooler things, and (at the cost of annoying some customers who like things just as they are) making sure that we aren't soon replaced in the market by younger, smarter competitors not tied to old technology and legacy support issues.
Just kidding... forgive me! :-)
And the biggest, best argument for our safe survival... drum roll...
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/05/01/weekinreview/01safe.html
We're #3 on the New York Times' "Where to Live to Avoid a Natural Disaster" list -- and #2 is our neighboring city!
-- Bob
Peace and Blessing and Good Health for the New Year, Bob ........ for you ........ for your loved ones! *smile*
On this bright, beautiful Sunny Sunday morning in Eastern Canada I find myself thanking you and thanking God for you! I truly appreciate your amazing sense of humour in spite of some of the flak you have been dodging! *smile*
Psalm 115:1
Philippians 4: 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........
0 -
Dave Hooton said:Ralph Mauch said:
Also, I hope that all the resources in L3, that come up in L4 will still be there
I have over 200 resources in Libronix format in my Logos 4 Library, so that shouldn't be an issue.
Hey Dave,
Reading a resource before Church this morning and when clicking on a reference it opened a pane to go to Logos and purchase it, but when I went to the Logos site it said "We couldn't find NPNF02". I wonder is that was because it had a prefix of LLS?. This is not the first time this has happened, I've noticed it before in the last couple of weeks, just wondering if that's because there is no LLS references to purchase anymore?
Just wondering if this is related or not, Blessings.
0 -
Dave ... I appreciate your answer and not complaining. But (again?) the solution was not totally offline? You said 'still need to 'sign in'.
Having read Bob's latest, I still don't understand why protecting the investment is like pulling teeth. Or I'm missing something entirely. Bob very well knows a PC backup is not the answer. Quite often the backup itself contains the disaster (either from Logos itself or from some other offending software). And this is the second time he did the same, so I assume L4 doesn't have a way to do a clean backup without 'touching' the Logos site.
I think Emile's request above remains as the key question. And, just reading from several threads this week, people don't have a clear idea on how to protect their L3 investment either.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0 -
Denise Barnhart said:
Quite often the backup itself contains the disaster
actually, that is why you make a back up as soon as you have a known good state. I started to create images of my system as soon as I install an OS, then another image after several Must-Have programs, then another one with frequently used programs. A 1TB drive and a couple hours of time up front is very cheap insurance for multi-thousand $ Logos library recovery.
0 -
I think toughski you underlined what Bob has repeatedly demonstrated ... absent Logos.com, the user's L4 investment is toast. Realistically few do the steps you describe and certainly not if they have 'a life' (e.g. pastor, care for families, etc).
So my point remains: people need to do their own due diligence, since L4 removed the license backup/restore capability.
Unless Dave knows differently ..,.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0
said:
