Camp Logos CD

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/317827#Comment_317827

(and would someone point me in the right direction?).

Suggest contacting Logos Sales => http://www.logos.com/about/contact

By the way, Still Truth web site has a forum.

Keep Smiling [:)]

toughski

Well, can we have a thread if we want to BUY?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/317834#Comment_317834

Well, can we have a thread if we want to BUY?

Observation: difficult for a seller to abide with forum guidelines when answering someone who wants to buy.

A recently added option for items you want to buy is your Logos.com wish list(s) => https://www.logos.com/user/wishlists that has option for public sharing.

Primary focus of Logos Bible Software Forums is using Logos Bible Software.

Keep Smiling [:)]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/317873#Comment_317873

Wow! do you guys have those guidelines memorized or something?

OK. Thanks people. That's disappointing but understandable.

Rick Ross

Blair,

They are well worth the price and you would benefit from purchasing them. I am looking forward to the next edition coming out...Camp 2. The sales personnel can help you with a payment plan here on the website.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/318031#Comment_318031

They are well worth the price and you would benefit from purchasing them. I am looking forward to the next edition coming out...Camp 2. The sales personnel can help you with a payment plan here on the website.

Logos Christmas Credit is available until 2 Jan 2012 => http://www.logos.com/christmas

Purchasing Camp Logos DVD's would include at least 20 % credit toward future Logos.com purchases (currently pre-publication purchases are excluded).

Camp Logos Live is $ 224.95 so Christmas credit would be at least $ 44.99 (up to $ 112.48 when included with other purchases).

Keep Smiling [:)]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/318031#Comment_318031

Blair,

They are well worth the price and you would benefit from purchasing them. I am looking forward to the next edition coming out...Camp 2. The sales personnel can help you with a payment plan here on the website.

I'm told they are, and I tend to believe it. Only, being a relic from those funny old days when technology actually came with instructions in the box, something inside me rebels against having spent the GDP of a small Pacific Island on software that doesn't actually provide at least a thorough user manual. I know this sounds like a case of cutting off my nose to spite my face but, really, not even a manual?! Videos, forums and wikis all serve their purpose. But not even a decent manual?

I know I'll end up buying them one day and prove you all right. But till then 200 bucks worth of training material is something I think Logos could include with their package - I mean if they REALLY wanted to do people a favour and get them out of the "you know you only use 5% of this application's features" syndrome, throwing it in the library would be a nice gesture.

Anyway, I do appreciate the many good comments the videos receive as it does help alleviate some of the concerns of potential buyers who have no way of assessing the quality or range of information provided in them.

Thanks.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/318211#Comment_318211

But not even a decent manual?

Wonder if have looked at Help in Logos 4 program, which has lots of information.

Help uses a resource file that Logos updates periodically. For example, Personal Book information is now included.

Keep Smiling [:)]

Nic Gibson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/318222#Comment_318222

what about just borrowing them. I'm not going to use them more than once. I understand people need to purchase them to make the production profitable, but $200 is pretty steep. When I bought BibleWorks, really clear explanatory modules and video came with the CD's for free. I'd love to borrow someone's for a week or two.

Into Grace

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324029#Comment_324029

I agree. The price of $200 is an outrage to me and this is their Pre-Pub price [8-)]. I find it amazing how many people support Logos with this price on this forum.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324060#Comment_324060

Camp Logos is not produced by Logos, but rather Morris Proctor. There are people who earn their living working for him. If you don't like the price, don't buy it.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324076#Comment_324076

I think that's precisely the point: there are a number of people who aren't buying it - probably for the reason you put so bluntly. I would imagine, being equally as blunt here, that that kind of comment comes most easily from people who have their library paid for by their church, or for whom two hundred dollars is a paltry sum.

I don't begrudge Morris Proctor his living, nor can I argue with him if that is the price he needs to set. I merely repeat my comment that this kind of thing (or Logos' own comprehensive training manual/videos) should be included in the package when you purchase it. This Ikea, piecemeal mentality that companies like Apple have honed to a fine art has, unfortunately, become the new norm. I come from a distant age when the people who designed the product showed you how to use it.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324431#Comment_324431

Wether or not Logos should be doing something more/different for training is a separate issue from wether a group of talented people should be able to make a living producing training videos. My comment does not come from someone who has "their library paid for by the church," rather I am an unemployed, recent seminar graduate. Why do you feel the need to come in and bash people? Furthermore, how do you know who is or who is not buying the training?

Scott E. Mahle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324431#Comment_324431

I merely repeat my comment that this kind of thing (or Logos' own comprehensive training manual/videos) should be included in the package when you purchase it.

I completely agree, Blair. Please add your vote(s) to UserVoice to support this idea. I have given it three votes!

Paul-C

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324479#Comment_324479

I merely repeat my comment that this kind of thing (or Logos' own comprehensive training manual/videos) should be included in the package when you purchase it.

I completely agree, Blair. Please add your vote(s) to UserVoice to support this idea. I have given it three votes!

Presumably the cost of base packages would increase to accommodate this Logos-provided training. I personally would rather keep the status quo as it is and only incur the cost of training when I feel I really need it. As a newcomer to Logos, I don't mind using what free training resources are out there in order to get to know the product.

Dean J

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324479#Comment_324479

I completely agree, Blair. Please add your vote(s) to UserVoice to support this idea. I have given it three votes!

I have added my vote, though I can't say I really care either way any more - I've found that learnlogos is priced fairly and gives me what I need. It does make me reluctant to promote logos to friends though (like recent one who was looking at a rival product) when I know they are going to experience frustration at the start up with no-where to go. It's asking a lot just to expect people to spend hours and hours learning it (though I think the investment in time is more than worth it), but to ask them to spend hundreds of dollars on it too seems a little too much, and since I didn't want my friend venting his frustrations at me, I barely mentioned Logos. So Logos, if you want me to enthusiastically promote Logos (which I would love to do), bring people on board in a smoother way and give them what they need, or at least provide them options other than Morris Proctor (though I would still be reluctant to tell people they have to spend fifty bucks on training). And if you don't want me to, then carry on.

Dean J

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324482#Comment_324482

Presumably the cost of base packages would increase to accommodate this Logos-provided training. I personally would rather keep the status quo as it is and only incur the cost of training when I feel I really need it. As a newcomer to Logos, I don't mind using what free training resources are out there in order to get to know the product.

But we are still left with the fact that Logos promote the Seminars but not rival, cheaper alternatives, giving MP a big advantage. I found out about learnlogos because someone on here happened to mention it.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324566#Comment_324566

Logos makes big noise about the forums being the answer to training questions:

" If you’re having trouble finding what you need, you may want to Visit the Forums. We have a very large base of Power Users who are always happy to provide Tips, Training and Advice."

But the cold hard fact is that questions asked on the forums often return this type of response. And he has a star by his name.

Camp Logos is not produced by Logos, but rather Morris Proctor. There are people who earn their living working for him. If you don't like the price, don't buy it.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324566#Comment_324566

But we are still left with the fact that Logos promote the Seminars but not rival, cheaper alternatives, giving MP a big advantage.

Morris Proctor is the "official" trainer, but the others do advertise in Bible Study Magazine, published by Logos.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324583#Comment_324583

Morris Proctor is the "official" trainer, but the others do advertise in Bible Study Magazine, published by Logos.

We are encouraged to dump our dead tree library, and move up to the cloud. Now we have to subscribe to a dead tree magazine in order to track down affordable training resources? Sounds like circular reasoning to me.

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324479#Comment_324479

In my [not so] humble opinion, the money for manuals would much better be spent on making the program more intuitive, so that those manuals aren't needed.

I remember my first hours on Logos: one long endless frustration trying out one command after another that works on every other Mac program I've ever used:

Cmd-+ didn't enlarge the text.
Cmd-o didn't help me open books
Cmd- r didn't refresh the Home Page
Cmd- d didn't duplicate the tab
Cmd-s didn't save the layout
and so on and so on

And when I looked through the menus, nothing of what should have been there was there either. It took me 3 months to even get to the point I should have been in in about two hours. I never use manuals, except for very advanced features. I just start working. Real Mac programs are designed for that. Logos isn't. Every single two second operation required half an hour in the Wiki or forums to figure out how to do. That isn't a Mac program. That is incredibly bad design, done without any insight into how native Mac users, with no Windows or IT experience, think.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324590#Comment_324590

Kilroy -

I fail to see why anyone would take offense at my post. If you think something is too expensive, don't buy it. Furthermore, a question about the software was not asked, but pejorative statements were made about the cost of MP|Productions. How would you like it if your hard work was ripped apart? The people who work for MP|Productions have a right to earn a living. Producing training videos is not cheep. Neither is feeding your family.

I did not take offense about any user's desire for training/guide to be provided with their large investment. I don't take offense at criticism or expressing a different view (but I have a right to my view as well). What I do take offense at is throwing grenades at the hard working employees of Logos & MP|Productions.

I responded the way I did so that the poster would understand the situation from a different perspective. I hope that through those posts, and this one clarifying my motives, will do just that.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324679#Comment_324679

I fail to see why anyone would take offense at my post.

Then any further discussion is obviously futile.

EmileB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324709#Comment_324709

to drag this thread back on topic... can anyone provide a comparison between these two methods of learning logos, between the obvious price issue? (MP vs learnlogos)

Friedrich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324029#Comment_324029

what about just borrowing them. I'm not going to use them more than once. I understand people need to purchase them to make the production profitable, but $200 is pretty steep. When I bought BibleWorks, really clear explanatory modules and video came with the CD's for free. I'd love to borrow someone's for a week or two.

Nic, have you checked out the free videos on Logos' support page, or the free videos on the wiki pages (perhaps some duplication, but many others, too)? Also, just incase they might be helpful, you can turn on prompts to hear info on the Logos. Actually, check out the graphic below, which will automatically link you to several possible free tutorials. Perhaps you know them already. If not, I hope they are helpful to you. Also, you might google Logos training. there are several different options out there, each fulfilling a different niche. Some are much cheaper than others, but a different type of training product.

Friedrich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324714#Comment_324714

to drag this thread back on topic... can anyone provide a comparison between these two methods of learning logos, between the obvious price issue? (MP vs learnlogos)

emile, they have evolved a bit since I used them both. Morris is very very clear as an instructor, going step by step. He's just a flat out good instructor. And it is like a classroom setting. He makes the little things really cool.

Learn Logos (I used it last in 2009, but have been meaning to get back into it, he's added a lot of seminar/modules and has tried a lot more at integration) allowed you to perform the method yourself, with an interactive, on-your-screen application. At that time (2009, early 2010) it was more just "tasks." now, he has done a lot more of integration (ie, "let's put this all together as though we might use it to study xyz"). I'd sure like to hear from people who've gone through this.

Dean J

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324679#Comment_324679

Kilroy -

I fail to see why anyone would take offense at my post. If you think something is too expensive, don't buy it. Furthermore, a question about the software was not asked, but pejorative statements were made about the cost of MP|Productions. How would you like it if your hard work was ripped apart? The people who work for MP|Productions have a right to earn a living. Producing training videos is not cheep. Neither is feeding your family.

Nobody has made pejorative remarks about MPP. People have argued that Logos (Logos, NOT MPP) should not make us dependent on MPP in order to learn Logos. An example was given in the case of BibleWorks. Furthermore, no one has 'ripped apart' MMP, or suggested that they do not have a right to earn a living. Therefore I am totally at a loss to know why you have suggested that anyone has done these things.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324720#Comment_324720

he's added a lot of seminar/modules and has tried a lot more at integration

Dan;

Thanks so much for attempting to answer questions without talking down to posters. I concur. Integration may be the biggest difference between the two. John is totally capable of explaining how each feature works. Morris seems better at integrating/blending/weaving those features into the most usable approach. However, the price difference might tempt a savvy geek to develop their own system. It seems unrealistic that a training video costs more than the entry level Logos software package.

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324714#Comment_324714

to drag this thread back on topic... can anyone provide a comparison between these two methods of learning logos, between the obvious price issue? (MP vs learnlogos)

Emile

Others obviously will disagree with my impression of these two training resources, but I will give you the benefit of my thoughts—for whatever you think they are worth. I attended one of the first MP Seminars on L4 and was so impressed that I have purchased both sets. Morris is a superb teachers, his material is carefully arranged, and fully covers Logos.

I purchased LearnLogos soon after it was produced and very quickly gave the DVDs away. Recently, I revisited the website and ordered a video which I soon discarded. I find the teaching simplistic, disjointed, and inadequate. By the time you pay $4.99 for dozens of DVDs, you are fast approaching the cost of MP. I understand that these are recording of free webinars, but once the session is over, they cost $4.99 each.

Others have different opinions, and many value LearnLogos. Logos has a 30-day money-back policy, which I believe also applies to the MP resource (You might confirm that with CS). LearnLogos has some low-cost videos which will allow you to see how that training fits with the way you learn.

EmileB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324783#Comment_324783

Thanks Dan and Jack... I think that answers my question. I sensed that the learnlogos style was more integrative, in the sense of walking you through a typical type of study/sermon prep approach using Logos. However, I am getting the sense that that's really probably not my style. Perhaps if you aren't wired to setup and progress through a study like John is, it would be of less interest. I've watched Morris' official videos at the wiki and they really helped me... and I like classroom settings or a lecture format. I can figure out how to apply things if I know the features and am shown how to use them. I think if I was a seminary student or maybe starting out in pastoral ministry, learnlogos could be very helpful, though.

I'd feel a bit uncomfortable availing myself of the 30-day guarantee... 'cse once I've watched them, well... I've watched them, and gleaned the knowledge from them. I'd kind of feel like I was buying a DVD and after enjoying it with my family, returning it and asking for my money back. :-) That's just me, though.

SO thanks for the assist, guys... I'll probably use some of my Christmas credit to get these. A further related question: do you feel it is worthwhile to get the two L4 training manuals for Mac?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324846#Comment_324846

Emile - The one thing I would add is that "Learn Logos" has free live webinars, which eventually become some of the DVD's. You do have to sign up for them, and since they are "live", you have to put it on your calendar.

David Carter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324853#Comment_324853

Emile - The one thing I would add is that "Learn Logos" has free live webinars, which eventually become some of the DVD's. You do have to sign up for them, and since they are "live", you have to put it on your calendar.

To the best of my knowledge, none of John's webinars has ever become a DVD. And although it is true that you have to sign up for them, it's not as if you have to sign up for each one individually, just sign up once for each of the three Mondays and you are good to go for the year. All you really need to know is whether it's a Monday [:D][:D]

I have attended a number of the webinars and have learned a lot from them, I have also purchased a number of recordings. I think they are excellent.

It would be fair to say I've also learned a lot from the MP tips published on the Logos blog, but I wouldn't dream of buying any of the MP DVDs due to the cost. That being said, as an ordinary layman I am probably not in the MP target audience - rightly or wrongly I get the impression that much of the content is probably way beyond my needs.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324870#Comment_324870

To the best of my knowledge, none of John's webinars has ever become a DVD.

I don't know if they become part of his collection set, but I always get an email afterwords that "the DVD of the webinar is now available" for a small fee. I think he charges more for those who didn't attend.

David Carter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324873#Comment_324873

To the best of my knowledge, none of John's webinars has ever become a DVD.

I don't know if they become part of his collection set, but I always get an email afterwords that "the DVD of the webinar is now available" for a small fee. I think he charges more for those who didn't attend.

Well you must be getting a different email. Mine say "Webinar ready for download" and they are in MP4 format. They cost $4.99 each (although just like LOGOS there is a mythical higher price quoted that nobody ever actually pays) but sometimes John has BOGO sales which make them even more affordable.

MJD

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324679#Comment_324679

Kilroy -

I fail to see why anyone would take offense at my post. If you think something is too expensive, don't buy it. Furthermore, a question about the software was not asked, but pejorative statements were made about the cost of MP|Productions. How would you like it if your hard work was ripped apart? The people who work for MP|Productions have a right to earn a living. Producing training videos is not cheep. Neither is feeding your family.

I did not take offense about any user's desire for training/guide to be provided with their large investment. I don't take offense at criticism or expressing a different view (but I have a right to my view as well). What I do take offense at is throwing grenades at the hard working employees of Logos & MP|Productions.

I responded the way I did so that the poster would understand the situation from a different perspective. I hope that through those posts, and this one clarifying my motives, will do just that.

Alabama24 - I agree with Kilroy, you are very short with people when they dislike Logos or any of their products or procedures. I think you should consider being more winsome with your replies, and stop being so overprotective of Logos.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324458#Comment_324458

I never raised the issue that people should be able to earn a living
producing videos. (That appears, rather, to be your interpretation of
the posts). In fact if you read my previous posts you'll see that I'm
quite happy for Mr. Proctor to do so. Further, I don't see that anyone
else here was questioning that. The questions seem to relate to the
expense of the training materials, and were not assigning blame for such
expense, merely exclaiming that it is, well, expensive.

I was
not attempting to "bash" anyone but to point out that the the general
tone of a "well if you don't like it, don't buy" reply to geniune
questions came across as obnoxiously as my inference that people making
such comments probably had large wallets or wealthy donors.

How do I know who is who isn't buying the training material? Well, 3 out of 7 people who had posted by the time of your reply seem to have not purchased it. I made an educated guess based on those statistics. Judging by the subsequent posts, this seems to be an issue that rankles somewhat. The tone of your dismissive isn't helpful in addressing the issue.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324431#Comment_324431

I think that's precisely the point: there are a number of people who aren't buying it -

One thing that appears to be missing in this thread is that different people have different learning styles. The only time I have paid for videos it was to see how the videos approached the subject to see if the approach would transfer to another area. Videos leave me bored, restless and daydreaming. I happen to learn best via manuals such as those available from MP. Some people learn best in a group setting where questions and answers are possible. Some learn by example.

Where I worked (a large IT shop), we had three people of more-or-less equal experience. We always had a big laugh when new tools came in:

Person 1 gathered as many manuals as possible and read them all before touching the tool
Person 2 would start to read the manual get bored and simply jump in with both feet - only occasionally admitting defeat and using the help function
Person 3 would wait until 1 & 2 were using the tool and then ask for an hour or so of help

Same thing happens with Logos.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324900#Comment_324900

Blair - First let me apologize if I offended you in any way. It was not my intention to do so but rather, as I have stated, to defend those earning a living through these training products. If you look at the thread again, my original post was not directed towards you at all. Another forum member had said that "The price of $200 is an outrage," to which I replied:

Camp Logos is not produced by Logos, but rather Morris Proctor. There are people who earn their living working for him. If you don't like the price, don't buy it.

I still don't know why you would get upset by those comments, but since several others did as well, I apologize.

One thing that is bad about such forums is that it is that you often don't have a relationship with the people you interact with. My intent was not to "be short" with anyone, but to defend the right of hard working people to earn a living.

For what its worth - Several times I tried to separate the issue I was trying to address from wether or not Logos should include training or documentation. I was not being dismissive of this idea whatsoever, and tend to agree that more should be provided. (But as another forum member suggested, perhaps not the more expensive video training, as this would inevitably raise the cost of base packages considerably).

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324926#Comment_324926

One thing that is bad about such forums is that it is that you often don't have a relationship with the people you interact with. My intent was not to "be short" with anyone, but to defend the right of hard working people to earn a living.

For what its worth - Several times I tried to separate the issue I was trying to address from wether or not Logos should include training or documentation. I was not being dismissive of this idea whatsoever, and tend to agree that more should be provided. (But as another forum member suggested, perhaps not the more expensive video training, as this would inevitably raise the cost of base packages considerably).

Hi Alabama,

I agree on the lack of relationship and consequent potential for
misunderstandings of the forum. Perhaps one day software will be
advanced enough to register tone of voice and hand gestures!

I too apologise if I have caused offence to you or anyone else. It
seems we agree on the need for more formalised help with the software,
although it was good to see other people's points of view on the added
cost. Personally, I've had the software for over a year and still don't
really know how to use it well. This becomes a circular problem: I don't
use it because I get frustrated not being able to do what I want to;
and I don't ever find out how to do what I want because I don't use it
enough. I'm sure someone's going to say, "Simple solution: just use it;"
but as MJ just pointed out, there are various methods of learning;
"just using it" isn't so easy with an application this complex. (And yes, to anyone pointing me toward Mark's videos, the wiki, forums, and blogs, I do watch and look and read them when I have time).

Again, sorry if I've offended or misunderstood your intent.

Blair

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324926#Comment_324926

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324942#Comment_324942

Give it a bone, mate.

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324939#Comment_324939

I've had the software for over a year and still don't
really know how to use it well.

Have you looked at Mark Barnes' Free training videos? http://www.logos4training.com/videos/

J. Morris

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/318211#Comment_318211

Blair,

They are well worth the price and you would benefit from purchasing them. I am looking forward to the next edition coming out...Camp 2. The sales personnel can help you with a payment plan here on the website.

I'm told they are, and I tend to believe it. Only, being a relic from those funny old days when technology actually came with instructions in the box, something inside me rebels against having spent the GDP of a small Pacific Island on software that doesn't actually provide at least a thorough user manual. I know this sounds like a case of cutting off my nose to spite my face but, really, not even a manual?! Videos, forums and wikis all serve their purpose. But not even a decent manual?

I know I'll end up buying them one day and prove you all right. But till then 200 bucks worth of training material is something I think Logos could include with their package - I mean if they REALLY wanted to do people a favour and get them out of the "you know you only use 5% of this application's features" syndrome, throwing it in the library would be a nice gesture.

Anyway, I do appreciate the many good comments the videos receive as it does help alleviate some of the concerns of potential buyers who have no way of assessing the quality or range of information provided in them.

Thanks.

I remember, receiving an email (I think it was an email) a short time after Libronix came out about an MP seminar near where I was on staff at the time. At that point I was frustrated with Libronix because I couldn't figure out how to use it at full potential. I was upset the company I had ALREADY spent a substantial amount of money on was going to charge me for training on how to use it [6] . In fact, I was so upset I vowed I was going to just kick the program " to the curb." I tried... It last about 4 weeks... The program was just too good at what it did, even with what little (at the time) I could do with it.

I did eventually buy the videos and manuals. I'll admit, all through my Libronix experience, and even today when I reminisce, I still give a slight grumble about it.

However, with L4 I believe it to be quite a bit different when it comes to learning how to use the program at full potential. Quite frankly, I don't think anyone NEEDS to go to an MP seminar or NEEDS to buy the video or manuals in order to get the most out of L4.

I know... some of you might have just GASPED... [:|] .

Here is why I say that... ANYTHING (and I don't believe myself to be exaggerating) you might want to do or think about doing with L4 can be found right here where we are... in the forums.... Between what has already been asked and what you might want to ask.... there are a TON of capable and willing people to help... I'm amazed at how far some of these incredibly talented forum pros go in answering a question... AND... (here is justification for my reasoning) many of them (the pros) have been to or have the videos to an MP seminar... so your getting the digested [+o(] nuts and bolts WITHOUT PAYING for it... This was NOT the case with Libronix (of course now is, but does anyone actually use that program anymore? [;)] )

Furthermore... you have the Logos created instructional videos... (they get a mostly "mehhh" from me for content)

And... the user created videos (often done as a response to a forum question... amazing how far they go in answering a question! and they don't get paid for it!.... wait.... do they? [*-)] )

My favorite... no offense to you star bearers.... are the user created videos.... (ohhh wait... those are generated by star-power-people too [*] ) Those videos are incredible.... I seen one the other day that was 50+ mins long!!!!!

Now... back to MP... Ironic thing is... (this will sooth any MP 'yes men/women' out there)... at some point I WILL BUY the MP videos.... (as a side note... why people go the the seminars is beyond me... BUY THE VIDEOS... and prob. the manuals... and use and reuse em, maybe it's just me, but my brain is unable to retain information after about 9 sec. on full power... gotta love being able to pause and rewind)

I will end up buying those MP resources because...

1. They are incredibly well done... I don't know who Morris (not related) uses to do his video work... but Logos... you may want to hit Morris up for your next production... (some jest there... only some)

2. Again... Pause... Rewind... Replay... Replay... Replay... Replay...

3. Despite the fact L5 will eventually make those resources obsolete...Those things will be worth a ton of cash in like 392 years as antiques... [:S]

So... my PERSONAL conclusion (although backed up by indisputable facts [:P] )... I agree with a previous statement that went something like... 'If you don't want to spend the cash don't"

But IMO... don't spend it if you don't want to... because you don't REALLY (as a requirement) need to in order to use the program at its fullest potential... Seriously... no one really actually needs to... But many WANT to... because of the 3 reasons I gave....

errrm.... well maybe 2 out of 3

Now if we could just get Morris to give us the same guarantee Logos has... "The engine (training material) will always remain free"

*Note: In reference to the "MP yes men/women" statement... It does not refer to those who love his material or those who praise it... It only refers to you if you got mad when you read it... [;)]

Hope you all have a blessed day!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/324923#Comment_324923

Where I worked (a large IT shop), we had three people of more-or-less equal experience. We always had a big laugh when new tools came in:

Person 1 gathered as many manuals as possible and read them all before touching the tool

Person 2 would start to read the manual get bored and simply jump in with both feet - only occasionally admitting defeat and using the help function

Person 3 would wait until 1 & 2 were using the tool and then ask for an hour or so of help

Same thing happens with Logos.

Very funny.

You forgot Person 4 who would like to be Person 3 but doesn't have a Person 1 or 2 nearby and can't afford the Training Videos!

Philana Crouch

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/325510#Comment_325510

I would second the suggestions to watch the videos by Mark Barnes at www.logos4training.com they are free and very well done and can be downloaded. Also sign up for the free weekly Webinar by John Fallahee at www.learnlogos.com

I use Logos 4 quite a lot...these are the training videos I used to learn the program. It's FREE!