I have tried to find a post about this, but I couldn't.
If I want to find 'in Christ Jesus' and the wordorder doesn't matter and the words do not need to stand next to each other - how do I do that the most simple way?
Could you explain in a little more detail what you're trying to achieve? You mention Greek in the title, but then the example is in English. And I'm not sure if phrases like "in Christ" or "in Jesus" or "in the Lord", or "in the Lord Jesus" meet your criteria.
If all you want to do is find the words "in" and "Christ" and "Jesus" in the same verse, that's easy. If you want to search for "in Christ Jesus" and "in Jesus Christ" at the same time, that's easy. But it sounds like you want something different from that, but I'm sorry that I'm not exactly clear what you want.
Thank you for trying to understand me and my bad english [:)]
What I mean is that I want to find all possibilities for 'ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ', where all the words are representet in the verse, but not necessarily in that order or not even in a row. For example: 'We all live in the Lord Jesus Christ.' That one I want. But 'We all live in Christ', does not meet my criteria.
I tried the simple way, but got 196 results, many of them had nothing to do with 'in Jesus Christ', but had only for example 'in Christ'. I want all three words to be represented.
Does anyone understand me?
This sounds ideal for using Syntax Search, as it gives the ability to specify things "unordered". See attached graphic, be sure to click "Matching skips levels" for the three Words.
This search only produces 1 result, 1 Tim 3:12. Do you know of more? Seeing other instances can help someone produce the proper Syntax query. I did an English Bible search using "Near" (live NEAR Jesus NEAR Christ) and this is the only one. You get more by searching with "Match all word forms" selected, or by using the lemma of the words in Greek, but then it produces results like Rom 6:11, "alive to God in Christ Jesus" which is not what you want.
If this helps great, if not maybe you can clarify further what you want or give some other verses as examples.
Have you tried ἐν AND Χριστῷ AND Ἰησοῦ ? This seems to me to be what you want . It should find all verses where the three words appear but not necessarily in that order (199 results in the NA27).
Yes, I understand. There are two ways in which we can try to do this. The first is through a Bible or Morph search, the second is through a syntax search. A syntax search will be more accurate, but a Bible/Morph search is easier to construct. I'll show you the Morph search now, and I'll come back to you a bit later on the syntax search. I'll talk you through the search:
First, we need to search for the phrase Jesus Christ. We could use "Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ", but that wouldn't find all the morphological forms. We need to search for the lemma. You can't put lemmas into phrases, so we have to use the following criteria
lemma:Χριστός BEFORE 1 WORD lemma:Ἰησοῦς
However, you've specified that the words could be the other way around too, so it's best if we change the BEFORE to a WITHIN. WITHIN means BEFORE or AFTER, so it now looks like this:
lemma:Χριστός WITHIN 1 WORD lemma:Ἰησοῦς
But we also want to search for ἐν. We can use a similar syntax:
lemma:ἐν BEFORE 4 WORDS lemma:Χριστός WITHIN 1 WORD lemma:Ἰησοῦς
The 4 I've chosen is rather arbitrary, you can experiment with different numbers. If you set it too large you'll get logs of false positives. If you set it too small, you'll miss some genuine answers.
Why don't you try "ἐν AND Χριστῷ AND Ἰησοῦ", this seems to be pulling up the verses that you were wanting. You can also go to the logos wiki (http://wiki.logos.com/Detailed_Search_Help) when in need of additional help for things like this.
EDIT: Also, make sure to limit your search results to within a particular Greek New Testament. When doing this search in the UBS 4th edition, I received 199 hits.
Morph Search for
lemma:ἐν BEFORE 2 WORDS (lemma:Χριστός,lemma:Ἰησοῦς)
finds a variety of phrases:
Keep Smiling [:)]
I'll show you the Morph search now, and I'll come back to you a bit later on the syntax search
Logos crashes most times I do a search at the moment (I'm using the beta), so I'm afraid I can't show you this. Dominick's solution will help you (though he misread your question so isn't using ἐν).
This also finds "in Jesus" and "in Christ", which we don't want.
There should be a way to search for Jesus Christ occurring together within a prepositional phrase. Can't see why this would be so hard to pull off. Trying to create the search myself, but I need to go to a concerto concert. [:)]
Why don't you try "ἐν AND Χριστῷ AND Ἰησοῦ", this seems to be pulling up the verses that you were wanting. You can also go to the logos wiki (http://wiki.logos.com/Detailed_Search_Help) when in need of additional help for things like this. EDIT: Also, make sure to limit your search results to within a particular Greek New Testament. When doing this search in the UBS 4th edition, I received 199 hits.
No, this one doesn't work - one example that it finds: Eph.1,3:
3 Εὐλογητὸς ὁ θεὸς καὶ πατὴρ τοῦ κυρίου ἡμῶν Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ, ὁ εὐλογήσας ἡμᾶς ἐν πάσῃ εὐλογίᾳ πνευματικῇ ἐν τοῖς ἐπουρανίοις ἐν Χριστῷ,
Not all my three words are represented.
No, this one doesn't work - one example that it finds: Eph.1,3: 3 Εὐλογητὸς ὁ θεὸς καὶ πατὴρ τοῦ κυρίου ἡμῶν Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ, ὁ εὐλογήσας ἡμᾶς ἐν πάσῃ εὐλογίᾳ πνευματικῇ ἐν τοῖς ἐπουρανίοις ἐν Χριστῷ, Not all my three words are represented.
??? I think you are wrong or we don't understand:
You didn't specify that these words have to appear in a phrase. Also you didn't say if you want the exact form of Χριστῷ and Ἰησοῦ. If you want all forms, then those advising a Lemma search are on the right track. If you want phrases, that is tougher.
I think you are wrong or we don't understand:
As I understand it the criteria is that the phrase "Jesus Christ" or "Christ Jesus" must be included, and that phrase must be preceded by "in".
HMM. Jack originally said "the words do not need to stand next to each other" so I would like a little more clarification on that.
If that is what he wants, wouldn't ἐν AND ("Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ" OR "Ἰησοῦ Χριστῷ") be the correct search? (I get 133 results in 55 verses.) (I know that can be written without the OR and just a comma between the two phrases, too.)
ἐν AND ("Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ" OR "Ἰησοῦ Χριστῷ")
I know I'm biased [:)], but I think my suggestion above is the closest without doing a syntax search because it's a morph search using lemmas, which is required to get all the results.
I don't know if there are any phrases like this in the Bible, or if the OP wants to find them if there are, but theoretically there could be phrases like "in Christ, the Lord Jesus", or "in [the Lord] Jesus, the Christ". Your search would miss those.
lemma:ἐν BEFORE 2 WORDS (lemma:Χριστός,lemma:Ἰησοῦς) This also finds "in Jesus" and "in Christ", which we don't want.
Concur this Morph Search finds more phrases.
Appears Morph Search lemma:ἐν BEFORE 5 WORDS lemma:Χριστός WITHIN 1 WORD lemma:Ἰησοῦς
has a false positive in Romans 15:5
Personally puzzled by Syntax Search results not including 2 Thessalonians 3:12 ἐν κυρίῳ Ἰησοῦ Χριστῷ ?
I've been looking at that too. It's possible to include it, but doing so would also include "in the name of Jesus Christ" and I don't know whether that's wanted.
Another good test verse in 1 Cor 4:15, ἐν γὰρ Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ
Personally puzzled by Syntax Search results not including 2 Thessalonians 3:12 ἐν κυρίῳ Ἰησοῦ Χριστῷ ? I've been looking at that too. It's possible to include it, but doing so would also include "in the name of Jesus Christ" and I don't know whether that's wanted. Another good test verse in 1 Cor 4:15, ἐν γὰρ Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ
What syntax search would include 1 Cor 4:15 and 2 Th 3:12 ? (personally OK if "in the name of Jesus Christ" is included)
Appears that Anything in Syntax Search matches the definite article (e.g. 2 Cor 2:14), but does not match γὰρ nor κυρίῳ
This gets 1 Cor 4:15 and 2 Thess 3:12
(The instances on Words 4 & 5 shouldn't be there, sorry - only noticed after I did the screenshot.)
Thanks; appears words 4 & 5 with "Or" were affecting search results; without them, my search gets 0 results. Personally learned adding Unordered works:
Likewise learned to have Cascadia Syntax Graphs of the New Testament open since Syntax Search visually looks like graph.
No, this one doesn't work - one example that it finds: Eph.1,3: 3 Εὐλογητὸς ὁ θεὸς καὶ πατὴρ τοῦ κυρίου ἡμῶν Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ, ὁ εὐλογήσας ἡμᾶς ἐν πάσῃ εὐλογίᾳ πνευματικῇ ἐν τοῖς ἐπουρανίοις ἐν Χριστῷ, Not all my three words are represented. ??? I think you are wrong or we don't understand: 3 Εὐλογητὸς ὁ θεὸς καὶ πατὴρ τοῦ κυρίου ἡμῶν Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ, ὁ εὐλογήσας ἡμᾶς ἐν πάσῃ εὐλογίᾳ πνευματικῇ ἐν τοῖς ἐπουρανίοις ἐν Χριστῷ, You didn't specify that these words have to appear in a phrase. Also you didn't say if you want the exact form of Χριστῷ and Ἰησοῦ. If you want all forms, then those advising a Lemma search are on the right track. If you want phrases, that is tougher.
Sorry, that I'm not clear in my explanation - yes, the words have to be in the same phrase - sorry.
This gets 1 Cor 4:15 and 2 Thess 3:12 (The instances on Words 4 & 5 shouldn't be there, sorry - only noticed after I did the screenshot.)
Help - if I try this, I always get a 0 results! Why? And the same happens when I try to do, what 'Keep Smiling 4 Jesus' does!
And the same happens when I try to do, what 'Keep Smiling 4 Jesus' does!
Personally living and learning that Matching Skip Levels is needed for Words 2 and 3 to find results:
Screen shot shows right click on Word 3 with arrow added to search results. If uncheck Matching Skip Levels for Word 2 or Word 3, then syntax search finds 0 results. If Phrase 2 has Matching Skip Levels checked, then syntax search finds more results (nominal phrases), but same set of verses.
Do you have "Matching Skips Levels" checked on the Words linked to Phrase 2 (note dashed lines which identifies it)
It's interesting that Cascadia SBL gives 76 results whilst original Cascadia gives 79 results
Text search that will be more accurate:-
(lemma:Χριστός WITHIN 1 WORD lemma:Ἰησοῦς) AFTER 6 WORDS lemma:ἐν ===> 76 results in LGNTI
Forces search for terms in () before lemma:ἐν
Other forms search for terms in the order specified:-
lemma:ἐν BEFORE 6 words lemma:Ἰησοῦς WITHIN 1 WORD lemma:Χριστός ==> 76
lemma:ἐν BEFORE 6 words lemma:Χριστός WITHIN 1 WORD lemma:Ἰησοῦς ==> 68 (misses 8 cases where Χριστός is 7 words from ἐν )
Concur searching Cascadia (vis Cascadia SBL) finds three more verses: 1 Cor 6:11 , 2 Cor 4:6 , and 1 Pet 5:10
And the same happens when I try to do, what 'Keep Smiling 4 Jesus' does! Personally living and learning that Matching Skip Levels is needed for Words 2 and 3 to find results: Screen shot shows right click on Word 3 with arrow added to search results. If uncheck Matching Skip Levels for Word 2 or Word 3, then syntax search finds 0 results. If Phrase 2 has Matching Skip Levels checked, then syntax search finds more results (nominal phrases), but same set of verses. Keep Smiling
Keep Smiling
Thanks - now it works. I had hoped for something easier than search syntax, which I find very complicated, but if it can't be otherwise, then I have to learn it somehow. Anyway - thanks for helping!
Glad syntax search is working. Personally learned a bit how to construct and use (with several trials along the way).
Personally learned a bit how to construct and use (with several trials along the way).
Bit more learning: a syntax search for a word can look for one or more lemma's (alone or grouped together in a prepositional phrase in any order):
