Bible Knowledge Commentary: Where is It?

Here is the response:

Dave Dunkin said:

There was a miscommunication internally. The publisher did not grant permission for use on the iPhone.

Are you able to distinguish to us whether it was a statement like "we have considered your request and the answer is no" or simply no reply yet but someone took something else as a yes.

Richard Stimson said:

I have paid for two copies of
BKC. One on Logos and one on Olivetree. Now on my iPad I can not use either

I know this is off-topic, but your OliveTree version should still work. At least, it's still being marketed on Olivetree's website.

I received a similar reply from Sheila when I emailed her as well, she said she was going to look into the matter?

If you can use your iPhone to get a book on biblica.com, you should be able to use that same phone using the Logos app. If David C. Cook thinks I am going to pay for any book on their mobile device that I have already paid for with Logos they are crazy. Why would anyone even want to buy a book through David C. Cook's up and coming mobile device? The Logos app can do anything it does and it can be used on the computer. The only thing I can think of is that David C. Cook doesn't want to split profits with Logos. 

John Fidel said:

David C . Cook should look to Zondervan if they want to see what happens when a publisher becomes a software developer.

Amen. You are right John [Y]

IMHO whole thing of asking for the special permission to use the resources Logos has in their computer versions on the mobile platform is not correct to begin with. iPhone Logos has (or should have) let's say, "derived" right to use the resource on any platform, since they do not sell the resources separately, just for one platform (PC, MAC, iPhone etc.). Their iPhone Logos is bound to the computer version and so do the resources. I see it very illogical for the publishers to expect Logos to ask for any resource (thousands of them) a special permission, that is denied as it looks sometimes because the publisher thinks about having the resource in their own application. It sounds really funny to me, yes, funny! To think that I will buy their application just for one or two books if I have Logos already with all the power of computer Logos behind it and synced.

IMHO it should be understood the same way as having resource displayed on whether PC or MAC version of Logos. It is the same issue. Making it different is only unrealistic (or uninformed, as it looks from the emails above) approach of the publishers.

On the other hand I am thankful to Logos being willing to go that harder way to provide us with all the resources on the iPhone/iPad platform. The question is: will they have to ask permission again for any other platforms like Blackberry, Android etc.? What if they got all the platforms in a new permission but in 5 years market will give us totally new and different option? It just proves my point above.

Jeremy said:

If David C. Cook thinks I am going to pay for any book on their mobile device that I have already paid for with Logos they are crazy. 

[Y] +1

 I have Olive Tree on my iPhone 4 and BKC is there to use...

Still not sure what the issue is. AS pointed out here olivetree sells it, and even Accordance owners of the resource can use it on our iOs devices, perhaps Logos' contracts are written quite oddly,  as owning a resource in Logos format should give us the right to use it on any machine running the Logos platform.

-Dan 

Dan Francis said:

Still not sure what the issue is. AS pointed out here olivetree sells it, and even Accordance owners of the resource can use it on our iOs devices, perhaps Logos' contracts are written quite oddly,  as owning a resource in Logos format should give us the right to use it on any machine running the Logos platform.

-Dan 

As I understand it, Logos negotiated the contracts for a number of resources prior to releasing the iOS app about a year ago.  So, they will have to (and are in the process of doing, for some resources) renegotiate with the publishers for access on mobile devices as well as on regular computers (PC, Mac).  The reason some resources are only available on desktop is because they've been available longer (prior to the mobile app) and the licenses have not been renegotiated.

Ron Keyston Jr said:

Any updates on the BKC on iOS?  Do we know if it is gone for good or if there is hope of eventually working out whatever licensing issues caused it to be pulled?

I am sure it will be back eventually, the problem as finally admitted by a Logos staff in a different thread is that in order for Logos to be able to make it available through Biblia, the contracts need to be rewritten for web access. Because the files are not normally installed on our machines it;s a different class of right. Hopefully Logos will allow us to install things to our devices from our computers eventually letting us put on any files we own.

-Dan

Scott Fillmer said:

I contacted David C Cook Publishers

I just left a message at http://www.davidccook.com/feedback/index.cfm?step=2&requestType=11 requesting them to reconsider.

*bump*

*sigh* [:(]

I feel your pain Kknight. [:(]

alabama24 said:

As has been demonstrated many times before with the NIV, Logos will not budge over this issue: If you own a resource license, you should be able to view it on any device you own. 

Isn't this a law?  Fair use?  If I'm right we're allowed to circumvent DRM in order to watch DVD's on other devices we own as long as we don't distribute it.  Seems to me that if someone were to challenge these publishers on this issue they'd loose in court.  Under fair use I believe that if I purchase an electronic book for one device I have every right to view it on any other device that I have.

If we could sync books between our computer and iDevices then this would avoid this problem and it would be 100% legal no matter what the publisher said.  Of coarse if Logos did that the publishers might act childish and try to retaliate against them.

I got extremely tired of waiting for Cook to cooperate and cease this obvious money grab.  I've recently spent a bunch of money to upgrade the resources I've got.  One of the requirements was that if I was going to buy it it had to be available for use on my ipad and iphone.  I'm now finding that I can do without the BKC.  I like it but it's no longer a must have for me.

To bad we can't organize a boycott of all titles that the publisher won't allow us to use on our mobile devices.

Oh well, my cyber rant which won't make a difference is over.  That is, until the next time this gets me worked up

"Isn't this a law?  Fair use?"

IMO...  What we have today is a systematic stripping of consumer rights for the sake of anti-piracy.  (For example,  the latest attempts in congress by lobbyist ... SOPA, I think is the name of one of the two bills)  These issues are still 'young'.  That this, they have not been around long, the digital question is still being 'worked out'.  I'm afraid the consumer's position isn't looking like it will win the day.  Maybe I am wrong.

This is a fundmental issue for the 'cloud' agrument.  If everything comes from the cloud, we no longer really own anything except a VERY limited licence to view the resource... (as long as they keep it 'switched on'.... which this thread shows they can switch it off at will)...

Unless this issue becomes a BIG deal for more people... the consumer... (you and me)... are going to continue to lose our rights to the things we purchase in digital format...  I don't pirate out ANYTHING... I don't use ANYTHING that is pirated... (yet... If the trend continues it will only force more of it by necessity... IMO)

I believe we HAVE to insist on the rejection of TOTAL cloud access for this very reason...  We need to stop being o.k. with settling for a licensed 'right to view as long as they want us to'... and INSIST on having the RIGHT to the ACTUAL resource...

A class-action lawsuit would get the job done (against publishers not Logos)...  However, I think the whole system is too far gone towards anti-consumer for it to win...

Consumer rights should be FIRST... and I think has been in the recent past... but not any more.

Actually fair use is part of the copyright law.  Both congress and the courts have made this clear.

It's been ruled that we can record copyright material for personal use.  It's been ruled that we can rip CD's that we've purchased for use on other devices that we own.  There is no difference between a CD and a downloaded MP3 as far as being able to use it on other devices.  There is also no difference between a song, book or movie as far as copyright laws.  A publisher can not limit our use of copyright material that we purchase for personal use on any devices that we own.  The courts have already ruled on this. This is the real reason behind the push for cloud services.  That and their desire to move away from one time purchase to subscription.

alabama24 said:

Just to clarify... (I don't want to be misunderstood). I don't agree with the position that we shouldn't be able to move our resources around, but you need to be careful with what you advocate. Breaking DRM is viewed as a crime by corporations, and it seems to be so. I will try to find the link that I posted earlier when I get a chance.

Doesn't matter what corporations want to believe.  They haven't challenged any person yet for circumventing DRM for personal use and they probably never will.  Too much to loose with little to gain.  They tried that when VCR's came out and lost big time!  Courts have already said that it won't fly. Wonder why the entertainment industry is hesitant to go after the software makers that produce software that allows ripping of DRM content?  Same reason.  Right now most people run scared from it because of the threats that the entertainment industry has made but if they were to loose in court, well let's just say they don't want to take that chance.

If they thought they had a good chance of winning in court there'd be lawsuits all over the country.  There aren't any because they know from case law that they'd probably loose so it's better to make hollow threats to keep it to a minimum then risk loosing in court.

Remember that I'm talking about purchased copyright material being reproduced for personal use on devices that you own.

You guys are getting sidetracked.  This is about individuals using a book that they paid for on a device that they own.  Nothing else.  This falls squarely within what has been clearly defined as fair use here in the US by both congress and the courts going back to VCR, Betamax, tape recorders and CD's.

You can believe what comes from the entertainment industry if you want.

Of coarse none of this gets us the BKC back on our ipads.  I really want it but I agree with the stance Logos is taking.  They are looking out for our best interest.  Cook is only hurting itself and their clients in the long run.  It's not smart to not play nice with a large distributor.