Typo?:ESV Ps41.1

Good afternoon forum Bible scholars,

I am studying Ps41 and its blessings; http://ref.ly/Ps41. I have encountered what I believe to be a typo. However, my Kung Fu is too much in sapling form to feel certain. Before I report it I would like to affirm it as an error. George, or anyone with an upper sash and a moment to spare to help me with this form.

The word "consider" in the 1st verse, is translated in the MSS field from the Hebrew מַסְכִיל transliterated maskil which is defined as poem. In the Lemma field this word appears in another form, Hebrew שָׂכַל transliterated sakal defined as understand. Unless there is an interpretation beyond my present ken, then this is a boo boo and requires correction.

I pray the 7 blessings found in this scripture upon all who labor with me to render clarity to this issue. Do have a spectacular day!

-"Dearly" Beloved. LOL

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

Looking in my Logos library, personally learned the verb שׂכל translated as consider in the ESV occurs 46 times in the Hebrew Bible, which is translated with many English words, including twice as "consider" in Psalms 41:1 and Psalms 106:7. One study option is comparing translation context for other uses:

The NET Bible has a translation footnote. Also opened three lexicons for screen shot (choose CHALOT vis HALOT to fit on screen):

Comprehending range of meaning provides insight that every occurrence probably has more than one English word for contextual translation. Looking forward to other comments to consider about Psalms 41.

By the way, another verse to consider is Matthew 5:3

Keep Smiling [:)]

Beloved Amodeo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/335108#Comment_335108

Thank you so much KS4J,

However, the main body of my inquiry concerns an apparent typo occurring in verse 1 of Ps41 in the reverse interlinear field. The MSS and Lemma fields appear to contradict or fail to match. I have to step away again for ~30mins. You have indeed irregardless inherited the 7 blessings for considering this poor in spirit brother yet rich in the riches of glory in Christ Jesus.

Once again, thanks for your time an consideration

-"Dearly" Beloved. LOL

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/335117#Comment_335117

The MSS and Lemma fields appear to contradict or fail to match.

It's a homograph in Hebrew, similar to "Well" in English. Check out the possible meanings:

#5 is "Maskil"

#2 is "consider"

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/335117#Comment_335117

However, the main body of my inquiry concerns an apparent typo occurring in verse 1 of Ps41 in the reverse interlinear field. The MSS and Lemma fields appear to contradict or fail to match.

Apologies: I lack Hebrew understanding to offer opinion about Lemma being appropriate for MSS. Personally learned transliterated Lemma has many homographs in ESV along with lemma:שׂכל.2 being translated as understand in Deut 32:29

Keep Smiling [:)]

Beloved Amodeo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/335181#Comment_335181

It's a homograph in Hebrew, similar to "Well" in English. Check out the possible meanings:

Thank you for clearing this up! I'm still a little foggy tho. Sorry for the slow response. I'm doing a little paper shuffling to organize important files. I'm going to have to dig deeper before I'm satisfied. This has nothing whatsoever to do with your excellent explanation. Thanks again, and enjoy your breakthrough. I will add you to my prayer list.

-Beloved

Vincent Setterholm

No, this isn't a typo.

The lemma form is the form to use when looking words up in a lexicon. The MSS form (I don't know why 'MSS' was chosen as the label - it isn't very descriptive in this case) is the form found in the Hebrew Bible, with all the prefixes, suffixes, infixes, vowel-changes etc. that are used in Hebrew morphology to change the dictionary form into the right form for the context (English examples of morphological change would include adding 's' to a word to make it plural, or the vowel changes in 'sing' -> 'sang' -> 'sung').

This is just a case where the hifil participle form of שׂכל just happens to match the spelling of a different noun מַשְׂכִּיל. In this particular case, it probably isn't a coincidence, as the noun in question probably derived from the hifil participle of the verb.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/335325#Comment_335325

The MSS form (I don't know why 'MSS' was chosen as the label - it isn't very descriptive in this case) is the form found in the Hebrew Bible, with all the prefixes, suffixes, infixes, vowel-changes etc.

MSS is the common abbreviation for manuscripts; the MSS form is the manuscript form, that is, the form that the word takes as it appears in the manuscript, i.e., the Biblical text itself, as opposed to the lexicon form / lemma.

Beloved, מַשְׂכִּיל is the Hiphil inflected form of the word that appears in the manuscript, and means to consider. מַ is a common Hiphil prefix. The remaining root (lemma) if you take away all the inflections, vowels, etc., is שׂכל. I'm not sure why you spelled it in your first post with vowels (שָׂכַל), as it does not appear with vowels in the interlinear pane:

Anyway, Kevin Becker's post here explains the number 2 beside the lemma. Dave Hooton's post above also uses that info. The definition of 2 שׂכל is to comprehend. The fully inflected MSS form, מַשְׂכִּיל, means to consider in this context. As you can see from the BDB entry for this lemma, the Hiphil Participle form of that lemma can have many meanings which are "hard to classify; scholars differ greatly":

We might not immediately see Ps 41:1 among the examples given in the BDB definition, but a sneaky little abbreviation, the Greek letter psi, means Psalm in BDB:

Also, in the Hebrew Bible, often the Psalm verse references are off by one from our English Bibles, because the title is counted as a verse. So now we can see ψ 41:2 under the list of example verses for definition 2 of the Hiphil Participle. Thus in the opinion of the editors of BDB, in this verse, the word should be translated give attention to, consider, ponder. The ESV translators confirm that for us, as they translate it "to consider" (definition 2).

So, even though the transliteration of that word is maskil, and if you look up maskil you found it defined as "poem" -- you've now seen one great example of why it's important to learn the Hebrew letters and look the Hebrew words up in lexicons, rather than looking up transliterations, which can be misleading. Interestingly, the very next Psalm, Ps 42, is titled "a maskil"; many commentaries say that a maskil is probably a contemplative poem. I wonder if maybe the arrangers of the book of Psalms put these two psalms next to each other on purpose with that play of words linking them together. That sort of thing does go on in other places, intentionally one becomes convinced.

It's also not too much of a stretch to see why the noun spelled exactly the same way and also transliterated maskil, means a contemplative poem.

I realize I'm just restating what Vincent said, with more verbosity, but it helped me to go on this investigative journey, so perhaps the steps in my thinking will be helpful to you as well.

Beloved Amodeo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/335340#Comment_335340

Beloved, מַשְׂכִּיל is the Hiphil inflected form of the word that appears in the manuscript, and means to consider. מַ is a common Hiphil prefix. The remaining root (lemma) if you take away all the inflections, vowels, etc., is שׂכל. I'm not sure why you spelled it in your first post with vowels (שָׂכַל), as it does not appear with vowels in the interlinear pane:

I really caught the big fish now!

Rosie,

Thank you for your utterly illuminating and thorough going comment. I am grateful. The reason I spelled it with the vowels is: I tried to copy the MSS field entry, but for some reason this was disallowed. So, I went to another resource, if my memory serves me (and it often does not) it was DBL, to copy and paste the form.

I am excited for your response and will study it in depth. I am busy with other very important tasks and will probably not be able to give it its due attention.

Nonetheless rest assure that I will revisit it if not today then perhaps Monday.

Thank you from the depths of my very soul!

All the rich blessings found in this scripture be yours.

-Beloved

P.S. You already probably know this; but the Hebrew is peculiar in that all the roots of the verbs and nouns are derived from 2 letter units which are usually assembled as part of a 3 letter root.

Vincent Setterholm

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/335340#Comment_335340

The MSS form (I don't know why 'MSS' was chosen as the label - it isn't very descriptive in this case) is the form found in the Hebrew Bible, with all the prefixes, suffixes, infixes, vowel-changes etc.

MSS is the common abbreviation for manuscripts; the MSS form is the manuscript form, that is, the form that the word takes as it appears in the manuscript, i.e., the Biblical text itself, as opposed to the lexicon form / lemma.

In case it wasn't clear, the reason I found MSS odd as the label is that the form in that field of the reverse interlinears really isn't a manuscript field at all ('manuscript' referring to something written out by hand). In the case of the Hebrew Bible, the reverse interlinears are tied to AFAT, which lacks the cantillation marks of the manuscript it is mainly based on (Codex Leningradensis), so the form shown there isn't really the manuscript form. Likewise, the NT is primarily based on early uncial texts which didn't have, for example, upper and lower case letters, nor all the diacritical marks found in the modern editions or even spaces between words, and the MSS line doesn't use the same nomina sacra abbreviations, etc. found in the manuscripts. So the line there isn't really a manuscript line, but rather an 'edition' line. I suppose 'Source' would have been an OK label for that line. Or 'Inflected Form', but that wouldn't fit neatly. But I'm just being pedantic.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/335702#Comment_335702

But I'm just being pedantic.

Oh, I see. Join the club! [:)]

David Carter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/335705#Comment_335705

But I'm just being pedantic.

Oh, I see. Join the club!

Bunch of pedants [:D][:D]

Beloved Amodeo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/335738#Comment_335738

Bunch of pedants

Yeah!

Bunch of ped-ants [:)][:D][:O]