A question about Logos 4 GPU usage.

Does anybody know how Logos 4 uses the GPU on our systems? To clatify - I have monitoring gadgets running to watch CPU, GPU and Network usage. They help me to keep my system running at peak performance and also warn me of any impending problems. The temperature on my GPU runs about 35 to 40 degrees C when I am running Powerpoint, Word and even IE 9 all at the same time. But when I start Logos 4 the GPU temp jumps up to 55 degrees C. Even more odd the temp stays there even with all other apps closed, Logos minimized and I am not actually using it. What can Logos possibly be doing that places that much load on the GPU? Also, my CPU activity and temperatures don't show much, if any change under the same conditions.

It just seems very odd that I can run several heavy duty applications and show very little increase but Logos 4 drives the GPU temp up 15 to 20 degrees. Thoughts and comments?

Blessings,

Bob

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Rosie Perera

Logos uses WPF (Windows Presentation Foundation) as its UI platform, which is a major GPU hog. Not many other apps use it. Even heavy duty ones. Office 2010, IE9, are not built on top of the WPF technology.

Kevin Becker

If memory serves Logos basically paints the screen with a 3D object, even if it's just 2D text. This allows it to do things with graphicsthat other programs can't (or would require much more lines of code to achieve). Graphically speaking running Logos is like running a 3D computer game.

Bob Schlessman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/338132#Comment_338132

Logos uses WPF (Windows Presentation Foundation) as its UI platform, which is a major GPU hog. Not many other apps use it. Even heavy duty ones. Office 2010, IE9, are not built on top of the WPF technology.

Thank you Rosie. I did know about Logos and WPF but didn't realize that other apps such as the ones mentioned do not use it. It makes sense and accounts for the differences I have observed. Makes a strong case for shutting Logos down whenever I am AFK for any length of time rather than always leaving it up and running. Granted 55 degrees C is not that hot but why stress my GPU if not necessary?

Blessings,

Bob

Bob Schlessman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/338135#Comment_338135

If memory serves Logos basically paints the screen with a 3D object, even if it's just 2D text. This allows it to do things with graphicsthat other programs can't (or would require much more lines of code to achieve). Graphically speaking running Logos is like running a 3D computer game.

[Y] Makes sense. Thank you Kevin.

Blessings,

Bob

NetworkGeek

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/338136#Comment_338136

I did know about Logos and WPF but didn't realize that other apps such as the ones mentioned do not use it

Bob, I am sorry but Rosie was incorrect in her statement. Use of the GPU is much more pervasive now.

Office 2010 does in fact use the GPU.

IE 9 also uses the GPU, and you can see there is a way to turn that off if you want.

Most of the DVD making utilities use it, including Cyberlink, Nero, and Roxio.

Adobe programs like Photoshop use it, but even the everyday programs like Flash and Acrobat reader use it.

Hope that helps clarify what's going on

Keith Gant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/338158#Comment_338158

Bob, I am sorry but Rosie was incorrect in her statement. Use of the GPU is much more pervasive now.

Rosie didn't say these apps don't use the GPU, she said they don;t use WPF. The GPU is hardware; WPF is software which uses the GPU. It is possible to use the GPU without WPF.

Keith Gant

. . . Even more odd the temp stays there even with all other apps closed, Logos minimized and I am not actually using it. What can Logos possibly be doing that places that much load on the GPU? . . .

The one thing that is puzzling to me about this is why Logos is hitting the processor when it is not in use and in the background. I don't know why WPF would need to be doing anything at that time. On my laptop Windows 7 Resource Monitor often shows CPU activity from Logos when it is in background (and indexing is not taking place), even with my i7 CPU. Not sure if Resource Monitor is including the GPU in that and thus whether the activity is from the CPU or GPU. The reason it is a bit annoying for me is that when the processor is running like that, the fan cranks up, raising the noise level of the laptop.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/338158#Comment_338158

I did know about Logos and WPF but didn't realize that other apps such as the ones mentioned do not use it

Bob, I am sorry but Rosie was incorrect in her statement. Use of the GPU is much more pervasive now.

Office 2010 does in fact use the GPU.

IE 9 also uses the GPU, and you can see there is a way to turn that off if you want.

Dominick, just to clarify: I did not say that Office 2010 and IE9 don't use the Graphics Processing Unit (GPU). I said they don't use WPF. I still stand by that statement. See here (though to be honest I'm not 100% sure about IE9; there's some web chatter about speculation that IE9 would be using it, but that was before it shipped; can't find anything confirming or denying it since).

The GPU is not the problem, it is Microsoft's big fat slow WPF that is the problem in Logos. And the fact that WPF uses the GPU isn't why it's slow. Many apps that are not built on top of WPF use the GPU just fine without that performance problem.

EDIT: I see that while I was composing that, Keith already came to my defense. Thanks, Keith. [:)]

NetworkGeek

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/338163#Comment_338163

Dominick, just to clarify: I did not say that Office 2010 and IE9 don't use the Graphics Processing Unit (GPU). I said they don't use WPF. I still stand by that statement. See here (though to be honest I'm not 100% sure about IE9; there's some web chatter about speculation that IE9 would be using it, but that was before it shipped; can't find anything confirming or denying it since).

The GPU is not the problem, it is Microsoft's big fat slow WPF that is the problem in Logos. And the fact that WPF uses the GPU isn't why it's slow. Many apps that are not built on top of WPF use the GPU just fine without that performance problem.

Sorry - it sounded like the thread was moving to a conclusion that only Logos was using the GPU.

I would recommend checking out the GPU utilization. On my laptop, Temp is 49 C., but when Logos is minimized and only IE is up GPU utilization is a steady 0% - 2%. I don't see much evidence of Logos doing a lot with the GPU when it is minimized.

Bob Schlessman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/338168#Comment_338168

Sorry - it sounded like the thread was moving to a conclusion that only Logos was using the GPU.

Not sure how you read it that way Dominick but I understood perfectly what Rosie and Kevin meant. Any application that displays anything on the screen is going to use the GPU. The question is how it is using it and as Rosie clarified, WPF is a big slow GPU resource hog. But I didn't know that the other mentioned apps did not use WPF. And as I stated in my original post, I can have several other applications open and running (including IE 9) but the temp is a nice cool 35 - 40 degrees C. Once I open Logos it jumps up to 50 degrees or higher even with Logos minimized and running alone.

All of these issues can be very system specific and I don't remember if they were present on my last system. I built an i5-2500K system a week and a half ago, upgrading from a Core 2 Quad Q8400 system. Since I am running with both the GPU and CPU overclocked (20% & 30% respectively) I have been watching the temps much more closely than I did on my old system. So far I've seen nothing about which to be concerned, but was just wondering about the above described anomaly. Unfortunately I removed Logos 4 from the old system so I have no way to compare.

I am using GPU Meter, All CPU Meter and Network Meter to monitor my system. They are handy litlle desktop gadgets from Addgadget.com that give lots of info yet use minimal resources. I've used them for a couple of years now and found them to be very helpful in many respects.

Obviously the more graphic intensive your app is the more it will hit the GPU and thus heat it up.

Blessings,

Bob

NetworkGeek

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/338218#Comment_338218

OK, good luck with it Bob, sorry I couldn't help.

Bob Schlessman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/338221#Comment_338221

OK, good luck with it Bob, sorry I couldn't help.

[Y] It's all good.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/338218#Comment_338218

On the forum to see if Peshitta's happy for late Feb.

But thought I'd add if anyone passing thru on this thread and concerned about Logos4 versus battery consumption (above is the GPU > fan-support), some manufacturers provide detailed battery info that you can watch, while you're doing your Logos4 thing.

In my case I have a i7 Lenovo X220 tablet (digitizer-screen with graphics integrated) and a comfortable 12 hour L4 usage before re-charge. Watching the wattage monitor:

- Without L4 running, it's about 9 watts draw on the battery (cpu/fan/SSD-card/etc)

- With L4 minimized, same (four windows and 55 resources)

- With L4 maximized all windows, same (9 watts draw)

- Paging L4 slowly with 20 resources connected (wattage draw rises to 17-20 watts)

- Paging L4 quickly for a while and same 20 resources (wattage rises to about 40 watts draw)

But overall, just reading L4 etc, it's quiet; nothing unusual.

I think it's interesting that when I use Libronix3 in a VirtualBox (64bit), minimized is the same 9 watts, while maximized it's a straight 16 watts. Libronix3 running in 64bit without a VirtualBox is just 9 watts. With heavy paging resources, it didn't break a sweat; still 9 watts. So, L4 does cost battey power but only when doing something 'major'.