The $50 peak has made some great progress over the last few weeks - if just a handful of those bidding $160 were to lower their bids to $50, we could get this set moving and into production, and out of it's long-term stalling:
http://www.logos.com/product/8522/classic-commentaries-and-studies-on-revelation
The reason it is not moving is it is still to much.
Also when Logos post this at $160 - $20 spelled trouble from the beginning.
it's too much for me, but apparently not for a lot of others who did give it a shot in the arm @ $160. I have always been at $50. We could use some of the lower bidders to raise theirs 10 or 20 dollars and that would REALLY move it. Let's get this done. $50 is a great deal for this large set. Many of the commentaries are old standards from a variety of positions, too. they would be helpful for study and background sources.
The OTHER sets seem to go for $30 or $40, so its only the high bids blocking people on this one.
Ignore the $160 part and bid the 40 or 50 and it will go gold in only a few weeks I think ...
The reason it is not moving is it is still to much. Also when Logos post this at $160 - $20 spelled trouble from the beginning.
It's definitely moving - the $160 has come down from 58% and the $50 has moved up considerably - we just need the process to continue until $50 overtakes the higher bid. If it crosses at $50, it'll probably end up closing at $40 or less.
What annoys me is when they won't let you bid below something ridiculous like $80. Then I don't bid, till they see sense and lower the minimum.
[Y] +1
What annoys me is when they won't let you bid below something ridiculous like $80. Then I don't bid, till they see sense and lower the minimum. +1
+1
Emotionally I agree with you, but the problem is that they won't lower that minimum, unless the peak is already at $80. If the peak is at, say, $120, and all the people who want it at, say, $50 refuse to bid anything at all, then it doesn't matter if those $50 bidders are so many that they could cross the line in a day. Logos doesn't know about them, so they won't take them into account. So if it's a resource you actually want, then it's better to bid $80 anyway, to try to move the peak there so that Logos adds lower bids, and then, as soon as they've done that, you lower yours as well.
LOL how encouraging this message is: "Your bid may fail" --- (Anyway, at least we're trying and perhaps one of these days we'll behold the unexpected):
Come on people, we need more signing up at $50.00 bucks!
Blessings!
DAL
LOL how encouraging this message is: "Your bid may fail" --- (Anyway, at least we're trying and perhaps one of these days we'll behold the unexpected): Come on people, we need more signing up at $50.00 bucks!
Perhaps what we need is something like this for the $160 bidders:
[:)]
good one!
Perhaps what we need is something like this for the $160 bidders: good one!
LOL I agree, good one Rosie! Now do one that says, "Your bid may succeed if you get others to jump in at $50" [;)]
Come on you $160 bidders, this is getting so close - just lower your bids and give the Revelation series a chance to go into production.
I wanted to jump on the "edit Logos screenshot" bandwagon. [:)]
I wanted to jump on the "edit Logos screenshot" bandwagon.
I nominate that one for post of the year, now that I've stopped laughing.
The plain truth is there are not enough bids.
If everyone who has bid higher than $50 lowered their bid to $50, there would still not be enough to push it into production. A bid of $160 counts as a bid at every level below it. You bid is the MOST you will pay, which means your bid qualifies to count at every level below that.
If $2,000 in bids are needed to cover costs, and there are 38 bids of $50 and 2 of $100, the two $50 bids count at teh $50 level and push the total to $2,000 and into production.
What will happen if everyone who has bid extremely high lowers their bid to $50, then the $160 figure that is scaring everyone away should drop and the set will appear more attractive and therreby (theoretically) get more bidders involved.
We could also share wonderful info about selected volumes to help others see why the set is worth $50, too...
Already in at $50...
The high price of the Revelation set has been the subject of several threads for the last several months.
But one possibility came to me tonight. I have not heard this addressed previously, and it may account for the ineffectiveness of all of the encouragement heard here for months to lower bid amounts.
My theory:
Logos users who are even irregular readers of these forums have likely already followed the encouragement and dropped their bids for the Revelation set. The high bids that remain are probably from Logos users that do not read these forums, except maybe to research a problem. So maybe those who want to see the bidding changed so the set has a hope of becoming a reality need to find a way to reach those who are not such regular Logos forum readers. Don't ask me though; I don't have a clue how to do that. But continually repeating the message here will likely just be an exercise in futility, as those who need to hear it are not listening.
I don't think it's been futile - there has been considerable movement over the last month or so ... but I think you're right that we're unlikely to see much in the way of lowering bids - but if we can just get some new bids at fifty, then perhaps it will beat the peak.
I wish we were able to see the amount of bids. I would find it interesting to know exactly how many $160 bidders there are.
Logos: How about contacting the 160.00 bidders and pointing them to this thread or sending them a message related to this thread.
If you bid under $50:
($10, $20, $30 and $40) PLEASE raise your bids to $50. Let's get this set moved to the production line.
If you bid $160 or $170:
PLEASE lower your bids to $50. Thanks for your time. [:)]
Unless they are forum readers (which I predict/think only includes may 20%-30%), how do we (forum readers who want the bidders to lower their bids) know who they are to contact them?
Oops, I did not see that you suggested Logos do so.
I believe there is a misunderstanding about Community Pricing. The following is a description of CP.
http://www.logos.com/communitypricing/about
If it costs $4,000 to produce an electronic edition of a book, the costs can be covered by 4 people paying $1,000 each or by 1,000 people paying $4 each. The more likely scenario, though, is that no one wants to pay $1,000 and there aren’t 1,000 people interested in the title, even at $4. But there may be 200 people who would pay $20 each.
Community Pricing is about finding the lowest price that covers the production costs.
We have asked our customers: “What is the most you would pay for an electronic edition of this title?” By multiplying the number of customers who would pay a specific amount or more with that price, we are able to generate a chart showing estimated revenue for the product at each price point.
I believe the $160 bidder would be included in the numbers at the highest number of bidders. To use the example above, if 1 bidder bids $1000 and 999 bid $4 then the production costs would be met and it would go to production. So it is a matter of how many bids that is a problem. If lower bidders raise their bid to the current price point then progress is made. Higher bidders lowering their bid to the price point makes no difference.
If I am wrong let me know.
You are totally correct. I said pretty much the same thing is a post to this thread yesterday.
What I do not understand is what logic is used to afix the price, $160 in this case. The price affixed to the Revelation set is probably discouraging many users from bidding. They think the price will be at/near $160, so the skip the item. While getting users to change change htier bids to $50 if they have a higher bid in place will not cause the item to go into production, the hope is that it will decrease the price that is affixed to the set and thereby the set will be more attractive to people who have yet to place a bid.
This has been discussed in several threads right now. Mathematically you are correct. And if someone found a couple of $160 bidders, they could bring this over the top @160 and then we'll see. It seems, though, that all those who are willing to pay $160 have bid so - and the commentary stalled in CP.
The idea of the group suggesting those high-bidders to lower their bid is psychology: they believe that many potential bidders are scared away by the $160 price point - and given the impression that resources go over at the current price point and then maybe reduce by a slight percentage (i.e. only a couple of dollars), those bidders in the <$100 range might refrain from putting in a bid at all. Flipping the price point to $50 would - so the theory goes - attract these bidders and create the momentum needed to bring the set over the top.
This may be true or not - after all, the argument assumes that the "scared-away" not-bidders don't understand CP, since they won't lose anything by bidding their individual maximum.
Assuming that the production cost is probably not very different to the successful sets, and many people may tend to collect all the classical commentaries of all relevant books / all NT books / all books, I wonder why the $50 bidders didn't overtake the $160ers long ago. But maybe Logos did put the production cost based on a high initial estimate and will re-evaluate (some CPs in the past had a history that could support such conclusions), thus driving the set nearer to 100% - in this case it would need only a small number of $160 bidders to get this into production, and the price might fall considerably nevertheless.
Mick
Hi Joshua, not to pick on your post, but because you captured the focus on $160 bidders so succinctly, I'm responding to yours. We're looking in the wrong direction. Let's forget $160 bidders... They're already in at $50, too. Instead, let's attract new $50 bidders by explaining the value. Why is this series even worth $50? It's still higher than the "average" cp offering. Let's sell the value there is. Let's focus on getting the new bidders it'll take to get this going. That's what'llput this over the top & get it rolling. Sell the value. I don't remember George Somsel's original explanatation of the value of some of these volumes, but as a scholar I respect his input carried weight with me... would like to see a reprise of explanation of the value...
Many blessings to you all,
after all, the argument assumes that the "scared-away" not-bidders don't understand CP
Remember that they may not even have heard of it. They may just be searching the website for Rev commentaries. If they then find a whole collection for $50, they may click on it and find out about CP, but if they see $160 for a set they've never heard of, they probably just move on, never realizing they could have bid something lower. In my time here I have seen a number of posts by people who have used Logos for years before finding out that CP exists.
after all, the argument assumes that the "scared-away" not-bidders don't understand CP Remember that they may not even have heard of it. They may just be searching the website for Rev commentaries. If they then find a whole collection for $50, they may click on it and find out about CP, but if they see $160 for a set they've never heard of, they probably just move on, never realizing they could have bid something lower.
Remember that they may not even have heard of it. They may just be searching the website for Rev commentaries. If they then find a whole collection for $50, they may click on it and find out about CP, but if they see $160 for a set they've never heard of, they probably just move on, never realizing they could have bid something lower.
That may well be true. Maybe a facebook posting now or then or a tweet like "commentary set - set your own price" would help.
Maybe a Logos Blog write-up that clearly explains the workings of CP woudl lure a few that have placed high bids to lower them, and the benefits of doing os. That would reach the desktops of all Logos 4 users, a far wider audience than these forums.
If the bid pass @ $160, the people who are bidding @ $10 to $150 won't get this set. If you are lowering your amount to $50 (the next highest point) you can definitely make a change. If we do a joint effort, we can beat $160 within few days
In response to this endless and inane babbling about reducing bids I have increased mine to $160, if you want more people to bid then this is where you need to put your effort, a high indicative price should have absolutely no impact on this process and to suggest otherwise perpetuates a misunderstanding of CP.
Harsh - but somewhat deserved. Everyone who reads these forums that has bid $160 has either lowered their bids or made an informed decision not to do so. There's no reason to have a new thread about it every other day.
Judging from how much the $50 peak has grown (it didn't exist eight months ago), especially recently, I would suggest that this is a worthwhile exercise, even if some people decide to react (and thereby prove that CP bidders don't always bid according to the model). This might have stayed in limbo for years - as it is, there is a good chance of it making it in the near future.
Rewind six months. I'm new to logos. I see the Daniel commentaries. I don't bid because I think 'that's too much'. Logos was a learning curve, and reading the fine print on how CP works wasn't a priority. Fast forward a few months. I now understand how CP works. I place bid on Daniel commentaries.
The fact is, many people don't understand how CP works, and we are factoring that in.
It's also the case that the two peaks have moved very close together in recent weeks, and this is no doubt behind the push to see that lower bid tip the balance. We are the ones taking our time to try to promote this, because we want to see this set become a reality. It is a measure of the importance of this set.
a high indicative price should have absolutely no impact on this process and to suggest otherwise perpetuates a misunderstanding of CP.
Whilst true in a theoretical sense, this statement doesn't take account of the fact that people are put off bidding by the high price. I doubt that enough bidders will be found to tip it at $160 but they will likely get on board once the headline price becomes $50.
For CP to work in the way intended, I think that the bids should be blind - with no indicative price shown at all. Then people can bid what they would be willing to pay without being put off bidding because they think it out of their reach. That said, the current method at least gives people an idea of what might be a reasonable price to go for. It just seems to have got stuck in this case...
Caveat: to cover 100 % of estimated cost with $ 50 bids needs 220 % more Logos community bids than covering estimated production cost with $ 160 bids.
Looking at => http://www.logos.com/product/8522/classic-commentaries-and-studies-on-revelation noticed this classic set is a bigger than several others with 12,448 pages in 27 volumes by 20 authors so estimated production cost is higher.
Compared to hard copy purchase, a bid of $ 90 has a discount over 90 % (while needing 78 % more Logos community bids).
When $ 160 stalled in community pricing progress, wonder where projected price would be today if initial plea to reduce bids had been $ 90 instead of $ 50 ?
Note: looks like projected price drop to $ 90 can be achieved by $ 50 bidders raising their bids to $ 90; yet still need many more Logos user bids.
A bid of $ 90 is less than a penny per page (0.7 cents) while a bid of $ 50 equates to 0.4 cents per page.
Keep Smiling [:)]
I've raised mine up to 90 - I guess it can't hurt!
Whilst true in a theoretical sense, this statement doesn't take account of the fact that people are put off bidding by the high price. I doubt that enough bidders will be found to tip it at $160 but they will likely get on board once the headline price becomes $50. Caveat: to cover 100 % of estimated cost with $ 50 bids needs 220 % more Logos community bids than covering estimated production cost with $ 160 bids. Looking at => http://www.logos.com/product/8522/classic-commentaries-and-studies-on-revelation noticed this classic set is a bigger than several others with 12,448 pages in 27 volumes by 20 authors so estimated production cost is higher. Compared to hard copy purchase, a bid of $ 90 has a discount over 90 % (while needing 78 % more Logos community bids). When $ 160 stalled in community pricing progress, wonder where projected price would be today if initial plea to reduce bids had been $ 90 instead of $ 50 ? Note: looks like projected price drop to $ 90 can be achieved by $ 50 bidders raising their bids to $ 90; yet still need many more Logos user bids. A bid of $ 90 is less than a penny per page (0.7 cents) while a bid of $ 50 equates to 0.4 cents per page. Keep Smiling
Keep Smiling
For me, it is not the cost per page that makes a deal good or bad. What makes a deal good or bad is the cost per what is written on the pages. I personally do not think that this set is worth $90. Heck, I do not believe that it is worth $50, but I raised my bid to $50 to help move it into production. But if the set sells at $50, I will cancel my order.
I'd be willing to pay $50 just for Elliot alone; I also really want Bousset, Hort and Trench. This is a very interesting collection of books which are not easily found elsewhere.
For me, it is not the cost per page that makes a deal good or bad. What makes a deal good or bad is the cost per what is written on the pages.
Concur, hence every community pricing page has: "Click on the highest price you'd pay. If the final price is lower, that's what you'll pay."
I personally do not think that this set is worth $90.
Thankful can agree to disagree peaceably. Looking at variety of backgrounds, humanly am glad to not have the various authors in this collection in my living room at the same time (suspect peace on earth not possible plus strong passionate words). However, can appreciate motive for $ 160 bids by many Logos users since would like to read and compare content between a number of authors.
People don't think like that with sets like the Classic Commentaries. Most bidders probably want 1-2-3-4-5 volumes in a collection, and they place their bids according to what those few books are worth for them.
A bid of $ 90 is less than a penny per page (0.7 cents) while a bid of $ 50 equates to 0.4 cents per page. People don't think like that with sets like the Classic Commentaries. Most bidders probably want 1-2-3-4-5 volumes in a collection, and they place their bids according to what those few books are worth for them.
I bid at up to about $2.5 per resource in CP, & even then almost only for classic commentaries... more? there has to be a good reason / value proposition. At this point, I'm in for $50. But that's high for me. Prepared to let it go at $90. But I don't game the system. I bid the highest I"m willing to pay. Then let it ride unless external factors (finances) force a change .
Still hoping they are delivered much spread out from when they passed 100%....
The $50 peak is getting real close to topping the $160 one.
Concur => http://www.logos.com/product/8522/classic-commentaries-and-studies-on-revelation
