Please re-instate Logos 4 Notes to Libronix standard... ( why is Logos 4 sub-standard?)

I'm stumped that my Libronix notes work so poorly in Logos 4. Why is there no column index of headings in Logos 4?

( I have not used Logos software much for a few years, whilst continuing to buy books on the pre-pub program, now I come and find functionality of Logos 4 Notes less than Libronix, what a shame!)

Libronix notes have an index column running down the left, of note headings, like book resources. This means the notes can be used as resources in their own right, like books. Libronix notes are POWERFUL because they can be quickly and continually edited, instantly added to or changed.

what about Logos 4 notes? Are they meant only to be sticky notes, patches of information but not full scale book resources in their own right? Why is this? Have Logos underestimated the potential of their fabulous program? Some people use Word files etc and assemble them into Personal Book Resources, it takes a bit of time, it is worth it....EXCEPT Personal Book Resources are not INSTANTLY edited.

Personal Book Resources are superb, but we also NEED THE NOTES to have the Column Index of headings...

otherwise large note files become unwieldy and unamangeable to someone working busily or quickly...

I have bought $1000s resources thinking my study system of putting EVERYTHING into Libronix would work in Logos 4, and now years later I find Logos 4 has regressed and my system struggles. Will Logos please update Logos 4 notes. I need it! I am sure others would adopt my system if it were possible in Logos 4.

I will share my method with others if interested.... basically I make extensive notes on every bible verse of my chosen book, each note file is based on a pericope of 2-3 verses or less. Each time I review the passage I add the results of another commentary or book or two...all hotlinked to original books- for review if necessary, and to other resources.. Each time I would run a bible study on that passage/book then I would review and summarise and tailor add biuld... ....all in now in Logos 4..?.. cough .. I mean I must stay with Libronix because large note files creak in Logos 4? ...

Michael

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tom

hi

I'm stumped that my Libronix notes work so poorly in Logos 4. Why is there no column index of headings in Logos 4?

( I have not used Logos software much for a few years, whilst continuing to buy books on the pre-pub program, now I come and find functionality of Logos 4 Notes less than Libronix, what a shame!)

Libronix notes have an index column running down the left, of note headings, like book resources. This means the notes can be used as resources in their own right, like books. Libronix notes are POWERFUL because they can be quickly and continually edited, instantly added to or changed.

what about Logos 4 notes? Are they meant only to be sticky notes, patches of information but not full scale book resources in their own right? Why is this? Have Logos underestimated the potential of their fabulous program? Some people use Word files etc and assemble them into Personal Book Resources, it takes a bit of time, it is worth it....EXCEPT Personal Book Resources are not INSTANTLY edited.

Personal Book Resources are superb, but we also NEED THE NOTES to have the Column Index of headings...

otherwise large note files become unwieldy and unamangeable to someone working busily or quickly...

I have bought $1000s resources thinking my study system of putting EVERYTHING into Libronix would work in Logos 4, and now years later I find Logos 4 has regressed and my system struggles. Will Logos please update Logos 4 notes. I need it! I am sure others would adopt my system if it were possible in Logos 4.

I will share my method with others if interested.... basically I make extensive notes on every bible verse of my chosen book, each note file is based on a pericope of 2-3 verses or less. Each time I review the passage I add the results of another commentary or book or two...all hotlinked to original books- for review if necessary, and to other resources.. Each time I would run a bible study on that passage/book then I would review and summarise and tailor add biuld... ....all in now in Logos 4..?.. cough .. I mean I must stay with Libronix because large note files creak in Logos 4? ...

Michael

I would say that this topic comes up every month or two. If you have not done so, can you please go to http://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-4/suggestions/1619077-rework-notes-function-in-one-or-multiple-phases and add your votes to the growing list of users who want L4's notes to be improved.

George Somsel

I'm stumped that my Libronix notes work so poorly in Logos 4. Why is there no column index of headings in Logos 4?

There is a column index of headings IF YOU ENTER ONE.

Michael Perry

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/352161#Comment_352161

hi George

Exactly! Either column headings ( compact view) or full text view.

Libronix allowed both, headings on the left and text of that note on the right.

It is as if Logos designed the Logos 4 note files to be only brief post it notes..Unless one changes to full view....but then to view the headings one has to change view back again...... is this unecessarily awkward and time consuming..?

Libronix has the index of note headings down left hand side AND full view of all contents on right. ( like a book resource) . I need this system back otherwise my Libronix notes don't really work... to much switching views, scrolling and getting lost.... Michael

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/352177#Comment_352177

It is as if Logos designed the Logos 4 note files to be only brief post it notes..Unless one changes to full view....but then to view the headings one has to change view back again...... is this unecessarily awkward and time consuming..?

I don't know if this addresses your point, but, if you open a note, any other already open note is closed. This avoids the problem of having an excessively long list of notes displayed so that they can be reviewed quickly. The other alternative is to open all notes.

Michael Perry

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/352180#Comment_352180

hi George

I grasp what you mean, but regretfully that does not cover my point. I just opened the first note I came to, it had 339 words in 39 lines. When this note was open it took up so much of the screen that most of the remaining headings we lost. ( Even more so with 1000 word notes) . I needed to scroll or close that note in order to re examine all the headings in that note. This cuts out quickly having a look at the other headings and back to the note content again....and back and forth....too easy to get lost.... I need the note display in two sections, like Libronix note files were, and like Resources do when the content index is opened , the content of the note displays on the right.... without losing the index of headings. It is possible to open up the first or last note and switch quikcly between them. With all of the other functionality of Note Files, namely continuous editing this make Libronix Note Files a powerful resource..i hope one day soon with Logos 4 aswell..?

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/352177#Comment_352177

It is as if Logos designed the Logos 4 note files to be only brief post it notes

Not "as if". They did. Bob has specifically stated time and time again that he only intends Notes to be used for the kind of short notes some people like to write in the margins of their Bibles.

Unfortunately, although that's pretty much exactly how I want to use them, I still find them pretty useless even for that. Even though the vast majority of my notes are between two words and two sentences long (and usually closer to the former), I still only manage to make about 4-6 an hour. And before I can even start to use Logos for what I bought it for, I have probably a couple of thousand notes to enter... [:'(] I don't have the time to do that the way things work now, so consequently all I can do is wait for Logos to get their act together and fix all the things only they can fix. It's such a shame. If at least notes worked properly, then I could work on them while I waited for them to fix the rest of the program. But as it is, I can't really work on anything. Whatever I try to do, it's just one endless fight with bugs and 'issues'. [8o|]

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/352177#Comment_352177

It is as if Logos designed the Logos 4 note files to be only brief post it notes

This is almost exactly what I've read Logos saying. Bob has been pretty firm in not adding much more functionality to notes in Logos4 than what is already there. Some of the reasons for this are technical (what was easier to do in the Libronix programing environment is harder to do in the L4 environment), some are philosophical (this is how we envision notes), and some are statistical (this is how the vast majority of our users make use of notes).

If you want something more 'book-like' the Personal Book (PB) tool is what you want to learn. If you tag your headings appropriately (using headings) they will show up as an index on the left side, like any other resource. The drawback is that it requires MS Word 2010, or LibreOffice (free) to work.

I'm not sure this is the answer you wanted, but I'm trying to be realistic.

Also, as suggested above, if you want notes changed, be sure to vote at uservoice. Logos does monitor our opinions there.

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/352186#Comment_352186

If at least notes worked properly, then I could work on them while I waited for them to fix the rest of the program. But as it is, I can't really work on anything. Whatever I try to do, it's just one endless fight with bugs and 'issues'.

I've not had any problems with notes. What problems have you had?

Rrarely do I have a problem with a bug (even on the beta releases). But if you're using the Logos Mac version, I hear ya.

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/352187#Comment_352187

This is almost exactly what I've read Logos saying. Bob has been pretty firm in not adding much more functionality to notes in Logos4 than what is already there. Some of the reasons for this are technical (what was easier to do in the Libronix programing environment is harder to do in the L4 environment), some are philosophical (this is how we envision notes), and some are statistical (this is how the vast majority of our users make use of notes).

If you want something more 'book-like' the Personal Book (PB) tool is what you want to learn. If you tag your headings appropriately (using headings) they will show up as an index on the left side, like any other resource. The drawback is that it requires MS Word 2010, or LibreOffice (free) to work.

I understand what is requested, and I see no reason it could not be done, but I am not a programmer. What is desired is the equivalent of opening a TOC panel in a book and being able to go to any section of the book from that TOC. I can do without that though it would be nice. As regards other features, I want my note in notes rather than in a PB. They are MY NOTES and they WILL be as I want them within reason or else. It's my way or the highway.

DominicM

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/352186#Comment_352186

before I can even start to use Logos for what I bought it for, I have probably a couple of thousand notes to enter...

what format are they currently in?

I don't have the time to do that the way things work now

I feel your pain, but depending what format they are in, am happy to try to work out how (if its possible) to do a bulk import to notes as long as they are tagged with a reference, or to PB if they arent

if it involves writing a program it will be windows one as I dont mac, so please let me know if you are a mac user

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/352188#Comment_352188

I've not had any problems with notes. What problems have you had?

Just to name a few of the most obvious reasons it takes forever to make a simple 1-2 sentence note:

Waiting, waiting, waiting while the program catches up with my [rather slow] typing.
Everything has to be hyperlinked manually.
Every time I paste something I have to select it, change the font, change the size, possibly change the style and colour, remove footnote numbers, and remove or change the citation. Several of these are new. It used to be that anything shorter than one sentence took so long to fix that it was faster to just type it in manually. Now it's anything shorter than 3-5 sentences that is faster to just type... (Devs: how hard is it to program a shift-alt-cmd-v command to paste unformatted text, just like we can do here on the forum, and like any other program can?? I bet there is virtually nothing that would save us more hours/hour of your time.)
No way to automatically attach a note to several places, or build cross references. I rarely attach a note to only one place. If I attach a note to Mt, I need the same note attached to similar verses in the other Gospels. If I make a link from Mt to Ps, I also need a link from Ps to Mt. If I make a note on the Last Supper, I need it not only in my Study Bible note file (for all accounts), but also in at least one thematic file. And so on.

Rrarely do I have a problem with a bug

Like I wrote earlier today: it takes me approximately 8-10 hours to get 5 minutes of work done on Logos: 2-3 hours of fighting with bugs and 'issues', and the rest for reporting them. I find about 5 new bugs an hour, besides all the old ones. I have literally encountered hundreds of bugs I have never even had time to report (and what's the meaning anyway; they virtually never fix them; rarely even acknowledge them). So forgive me if I'm somewhat less positive to Logos than most of the rest of you. I've lost 18 months of work. 18 months of income. I cry when I think of all the work i could have gotten done if I'd had these books on paper.

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/352205#Comment_352205

what format are they currently in?

None. They're in my head for a while, until I forget them. They're scrabbled on pieces of paper. They're in books I read, or podcasts I hear. And they're pretty much useless to me until they have a note icon by the correct verse[s ].

Thank you very much for the offer, though.

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/352208#Comment_352208

Like I wrote earlier today . . .

Ah. You're using the Mac version.

Sorry.You have my sympathy.

Let me say it this way: "On the Windows version, I rarely encounter a bug."

As far as your issues with notes goes, some of those work better in the Windows version, some the same. I rarely copy/paste into notes, and when I have I've not bothered changing fonts or font sizes. Linking a note to more than one passage is an issue that has been brought to uservoice, though I'm not sure how, or even if it could be fixed, given the current note programming architecture.

Michael Perry

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/352187#Comment_352187

hi Richard

Personal Book Resources are great for what they aim to do, convert Word files into books.

For my use, Notes do not need to be a full blown Word processor, they need no more functionality than they have ( simple word processor, bible verses hotlinked )

They simply need the index column on the left, so that when a large note is open, all of the headings in that file can be simultaneously viewed, just like a bookresource, like Libronix etc.

I seriously question whether LOGOS have underestimated the power of this aspect of the Libronix notes feature?

Michael Perry

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/352194#Comment_352194

hi George, yes I agree the Personal Book Resources do not replace Notes..... For me it is the speed of continuously editing Notes that makes them POWERFUL.. ( Personal Books requuire re editing, re compiling after each ammendment....cant just run along editing and using them at speed on the hoof..

DominicM

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/352210#Comment_352210

if you add them into pages/word then you could convert them into a PB at a later date or copy/paste into notes

At least in the mean-time your work would not be in vain, and not lost

May the Lord continue to bless your ministry in these trying times

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/352212#Comment_352212

I rarely copy/paste into notes, and when I have I've not bothered changing fonts or font sizes.

Somehow, I don't like my notes to change the font back and forth in the same note: [:O]

Or, ten times worse (ignore the content, these were just made to illustrate a post I still haven't had time to write):

Is that a note or a sketch for a quilt? [:P]

Now, why would I want colour in the note, just because that verse happened to be highlighted in my Bible? And why on earth would I want a complete citation for a simple Bible verse? In a note? Which they themselves say is supposed to mimic a marginal note in a Bible! I very rarely want any citation in notes, and when I do, it's the (Jn 6:26) or (Ratzinger p26) kind -- definitely not full ones. And I want the default formatting on everything, unless I indicate otherwise!

(I've even had full citations turn up in search and reference boxes, when I've pasted things there!)

if you add them into pages/word then you could convert them into a PB

That would be a waste of time. For me, 99% of the value lies in the note icon. Without the icon, I won't know that I have a note, so any time spent on writing it is pretty much wasted. Plus I wouldn't be able to add to it on the spur of the moment.

But thanks for the sympathy from both of you.