Surprising search result on reverse interlinear

I did a search for "ἐκ πίστεως" in NA27 Greek New Testament and got 23 results. I wanted to get a quick overview of how this was translated in various English versions, so I changed the Bible to the NASB in the search window. It only returns one verse (Rom 3:26).

I have been pleased to do Greek lemma searches and morphological searches and return the the matching verses with the translation highlighted in English. I had expect it to search on the underlying Greek text and do a phrase search. Since the Greek word order in the tagged text is the same in many other verses, I don't understand why this is not returning more matches.

For example, if I turn on the Interlinear Ribbon, it shows the same word order in Rom 1:17, 3:20; 4:16; 5:1; 9:30 and many other verses.

What is Logos doing differently when you do a phrase search on a Greek phrase in a reverse interlinear than in a Greek text? Can the phrase search be conducted differently to make it work in a reverse interlinear?

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Harry Hahne

Further experimentation suggests that the reverse interlinear varies in how it groups English words as a search unit. For example, if I search do this search: ἐκ BEFORE 1 WORD πίστεως, I get many of the missing matches. However, I don't get Rom 3:26. In order to get Rom 3:26, I must search for ἐκ BEFORE 0 WORD πίστεως.

It appears that the NASB reverse interlinear in Rom 3:26 treats the whole English phrase "the one who has faith in Jesus" as a single search unit (which translates 3 Greek words). But it is not consistent in this. In Gal 3:7 and 3:9, the phrase "those who are of faith" is broken into 3 search units, so these verses are found if I search for ἐκ BEFORE 0 WORD πίστεως.

The only way I can get all verses is to do a search ἐκ BEFORE 0-1 WORD πίστεως. This too was a surprise. I had thought that ἐκ BEFORE 1 WORD πίστεως would include anything where the first search term is 1 word or less before the second search term. But it appears not to include the "before 0".

This raises a new question. If I search with BEFORE 2 WORD will this search for instances of the first word 1 or 2 words before the second search term? If so, how can I find instances where the first term is exactly 2 words before the second term, but not the previous word?

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/352221#Comment_352221

how can I find instances where the first term is exactly 2 words before the second term

ἐκ BEFORE 2-2 WORD πίστεως

I had thought that ἐκ BEFORE 1 WORD πίστεως would include anything where the first search term is 1 word or less before the second search term.

Minimum separation for text searches is 1 word. 0 is a special case, used as a synonym for ANDEQUALS e.g. ἐκ ANDEQUALS πίστεως

NB.Mick

I did a search for "ἐκ πίστεως" in NA27 Greek New Testament and got 23 results. I wanted to get a quick overview of how this was translated in various English versions, so I changed the Bible to the NASB in the search window. It only returns one verse (Rom 3:26). (...) What is Logos doing differently when you do a phrase search on a Greek phrase in a reverse interlinear than in a Greek text? Can the phrase search be conducted differently to make it work in a reverse interlinear?

To be honest, I don't see much of the point in searching Greek prases in a reverse interlinear that chops up the Greek according to the arbitrary word order in the English translation. I always thought that "Add versions" was the feature invented by Logos for exactly this kind of question:

voila this gives you the NA27 hits and the translation

it works with multiple bibles as well, regardless of their RI capacity (I also checked NABRE and The Messsage)

Harry Hahne

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/352239#Comment_352239

I always thought that "Add versions" was the feature invented by Logos for exactly this kind of question

That is exactly what I would use IF Add Versions highlighted the search terms in each of the added versions. They could do this if they wanted to by using the Sympathetic Highlighting feature.

The point of searching the reverse interlinear is to see how a particular phrase is translated in each passage where it is used.

NB.Mick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/352986#Comment_352986

I always thought that "Add versions" was the feature invented by Logos for exactly this kind of question

That is exactly what I would use IF Add Versions highlighted the search terms in each of the added versions. They could do this if they wanted to by using the Sympathetic Highlighting feature.

With bibles that support Sympathetic Highlighting you just need to open them (make sure S.H. is turned on) and have them scroll along when you look at the phrases in the Greek NT.

You are right that it would be nice if this was able to be turned on (for those bibles that support it) in the "added versions"

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/352996#Comment_352996

I always thought that "Add versions" was the feature invented by Logos for exactly this kind of question

That is exactly what I would use IF Add Versions highlighted the search terms in each of the added versions. They could do this if they wanted to by using the Sympathetic Highlighting feature.

With bibles that support Sympathetic Highlighting you just need to open them (make sure S.H. is turned on) and have them scroll along when you look at the phrases in the Greek NT.

You are right that it would be nice if this was able to be turned on (for those bibles that support it) in the "added versions"

Sympathetic highlighting needs morphological tagging.

Found suggestion posted on 18 Feb 2010 => Suggestion: Highlight all versions in the search results of a BWS....

Morph Search in Greek can use BEFORE 1-2 WORDS, which can become BEFORE 0-3 WORDS in a Bible search to include more English reverse interlinear results:

For example, Romans 3:26 in NASB 95 has reverse interlinear tagging so BEFORE 0 WORDS can find verse. Right click on faith includes ἐκ in NASB 95. In contrast, AV 1873 needs BEFORE 3 WORDS to include Romans 3:26

Keep Smiling [:)]

NB.Mick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/353014#Comment_353014

Sympathetic highlighting needs morphological tagging.

Yep, that's what I meant with "bibles that support it", whereas the "Add version" of normals search gives all translations - but the translator's choices for the specific greek phrase don't stand out.

Harry Hahne

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/352996#Comment_352996

With bibles that support Sympathetic Highlighting you just need to open them (make sure S.H. is turned on) and have them scroll along when you look at the phrases in the Greek NT.

I don't get the phrases highlighted, except in the searched book, even with sympathetic highlighting on. The only way to highlight them in another Bible is to select the phrase in the Greek Bible and then it is highlighted in the English Bible. But this is tedious to do this one match at a time.